Lockdown : lives "saved" ? Long term we'll be in deficit.

[simon field]

Anything else you think should be voluntary? Speed limits? Theft? Beating internet trolls around the head with a rolled up newspaper?

Vaccines. Rather than try to ostracise those who didn’t want to be injected, and in some cases sack them, perhaps try to have an open mind about it instead of making up weird-ass reasons why those people are just BAD.

 

[alan1302]

the basic principle of common law is everything should be voluntary (that's how freedom works) so long as you're not committing harm on others. and the individual's rights always trump the communal rights of a society that tries to impose itself on individuals against their will.

So you would, for example, say it;s ok for someone to drive at 120mph in a 30mph zone as long as they don't commit any harm to others?

 

[Birmingham]

So you would, for example, say it;s ok for someone to drive at 120mph in a 30mph zone as long as they don't commit any harm to others?

i wouldn't recommend driving a pollution-spreading, crash-prone car even 30 miles per hour around other people or animals or trees. but since the world is currently setup that way, i sometimes jump in a taxi which is generally driven by a far above average skilled driver.

 

[alan1302]

actually i wouldn't recommend driving even 30 miles per hour in any zone. especially in modern cars. it pollutes the atmosphere, has a chance of crashing into people, and even more chance of crashing into small mammals, and is almost certain to kill a huge number of bugs

I was hoping there may be some serious discussion about the idea of a common law that is freedom for everyone...but apprently not.

 

[Birmingham]

you were quick to quote an early edition of my last post. re read it, it's more carefully worded now.

as for common law, or any law, i'm not a fan of it, it's a flawed concept, it distracts from natural sense of duty. i just quoted its main principle as i am a fan of that principle since that principle is instinctive and all good.

 

[Onthebrightside]

So nothing apart from complete guesswork then.

Ok, great.

What nonsense you talk.

 

[Onthebrightside]

I think we have a pretty good idea :

Covid deaths per million (though not all will actually have died of Covid, particularly since spring 2021, and even more so since early 2022) - data to 14 Dec 22

Peru = 6463 (0.65%)
Hungary = 5036
Czech Republic = 3910
USA = 3320 av age 38.1 (Florida = 3874 - av age 42.2)
Greece = 3342
Brazil = 3211
Poland = 3137
Italy = 3027
UK = 2887 (av age 40.4)
Belgium = 2840
Spain = 2492
France = 2441
Sweden = 2075
Germany = 1903

What is most interesting about this list is that some of the countries, like Brazil for instance, were "infamous" for their lack of anti Covid measures. Yet, excluding the outliers, most countries Covid figures were fairly similar.
Florida's figures are the most interesting because they were famously reluctant to suppress their society (and enforce masks). They had a slightly higher death rate than the USA as a whole, but the average age of people in Florida is higher, so once that is taken into account the difference is even less.
USA to Florida = 17% higher in Florida, but their av age is 11% higher

But the point is it should all (everything from masks to limiting social contact to vaccines) have been voluntary anyway because, err, we are supposed to live in a free country not an authoritarian dictatorship like China

And this info has previously been picked apart further up this chain.

 

[Onthebrightside]

Vaccines. Rather than try to ostracise those who didn’t want to be injected, and in some cases sack them, perhaps try to have an open mind about it instead of making up weird-ass reasons why those people are just BAD.

Because they may spread the infection to those who are vulnerable and MAY DIE

 

[Birmingham]

Because they may spread the infection to those who are vulnerable and MAY DIE

so absolutely everybody in the species must get this 'experimental' fluid put into their bloodstream? ludicrous trampling of people's rights and freedoms, even if the virus was isolated and proven to exist, which it never has been.

do you realise the seriousness of the crime you're endorsing? if the injectables didn't spread i would call it mass torture, injury and murder, but this is worse since it spreads.

have you even seen what's in it, or what happens to the blood after it's put inside people? the hydrogel eggs and graphene nanoworms are often visible under optical microscopes.

have you looked at the victims of the adverse reactions?

have you calculated the low number of deaths of anyone under the age of natural death, prior to vax rollout, and compared it with the high number of deaths and injuries after being injected?

have you seen the funeral directors saying there was no increase in deaths until the real first wave which was the first vax rollout when old people in carehomes were murdered with midazolam throughout the uk and worldwide?

your stance looks like blind faith in government technology and no faith in nature, as you endorse a massive crime against humanity - possibly the most extreme crime ever committed.

 

[IanSuth]

so absolutely everybody in the species must get this 'experimental' fluid put into their bloodstream? ludicrous trampling of people's rights and freedoms, even if the virus was isolated and proven to exist, which it never has been.

do you realise the seriousness of the crime you're endorsing? if the injectables didn't spread i would call it mass torture, injury and murder, but this is worse since it spreads.

have you even seen what's in it, or what happens to the blood after it's put inside people? the hydrogel eggs and graphene nanoworms are often visible unes.

have you looked at the victims of the adverse reactions?

have you calculated the low number of deaths of anyone under the age of natural death, prior to vax rollout, and compared it with the high number of deaths and injuries after being injected?

have you seen the funeral directors saying there was no increase in deaths until the real first wave which was the first vax rollout when old people in carehomes were murdered with midazolam throughout the uk and worldwide?

your stance looks like blind faith in government technology and no faith in nature, as you endorse a massive crime against humanity - possibly the most extreme crime ever committed.

What a bunch of conspiracy nut job ranting, if I knew how to block your posts, I would for my sanity - "graphene nanoworms"?

 

[MikeJ]

so absolutely everybody in the species must get this 'experimental' fluid put into their bloodstream? ludicrous trampling of people's rights and freedoms, even if the virus was isolated and proven to exist, which it never has been.

This is wonderful. What a complete and utter load of claptrap.

But, since you ask, NOBODY was forced to take the vaccine. Everyone had the right to refuse it if they so chose. Roughly 10% of adults chose not to. They're free to go about their daily business, now those of us that aren't complete morons have been vaccinated and we've supressed the virus effectively.

 

[MikeJ]

Obviously some people had a valid reason not to have the vaccine. They're not morons.

 

[IanSuth]

Yes but for "herd immunity" to work to protect those that can't be vaccinated for valid reasons, those that can should be.

(My colleague had COVID early doors and it attacked the mylene sheaf at the top of his spinal cord - the neurologist is worried a vaccination might reactivate the issue like chickenpox/shingles, but equally another bout of COVID might, on balance he was been told to avoid the vaccination for now)

 

[simon field]

Because they may spread the infection to those who are vulnerable and MAY DIE

But vaccines don’t prevent transmission.

They might potentially lower the risk of serious illness or death.

Your caps lock key doesn’t make your case right I’m afraid.

 

[simon field]

Here you go @Onthebrightside

If you’re so concerned about deaths, are you more concerned now than you were during covis?

If not, why not? If so, will you be venturing out in full body armour and respiratory equipment?

Excess deaths, new UK data

'Brits are dying in their tens of thousands - and we don't really have any idea why'https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/health/brits-dying-tens-thousands-dont-2995...

youtu.be

 

[Birmingham]

too many questions for you to answer even a single one? brush the whole post off to the looney bin?

wilful ignorance is what it's called guys. probably because you can't dare consider what crimes you've personally committed against yourselves and your loved ones.

there are class action lawsuits filed and criminal cases lodged, in this country and others, packed full of evidence supporting my claims, but you turn a blind eye and slander anyone who talks about it. absolutely deplorable. i do not consider you a peer of mine. not even the same species. we are nothing alike.

 

[MikeJ]

But vaccines don’t prevent transmission.

They might potentially lower the risk of serious illness or death.

Your caps lock key doesn’t make your case right I’m afraid.

They prevent infection. That prevents transmission. If I don't catch it, I can't pass it to anyone else. If the majority of people are vaccinated, then infection is reduced, thus preventing the spread of the disease.

They also reduce transmission directly. This is from the BMJ.

A study2 of covid-19 transmission within English households using data gathered in early 2021 found that even a single dose of a covid-19 vaccine reduced the likelihood of household transmission by 40-50%. This was supported by a study of household transmission among Scottish healthcare workers conducted between December 2020 and March 2021.3 Both studies analysed the impact of vaccination on transmission of the α variant of SARS-CoV-2, which was dominant at the time.

What do we know about covid vaccines and preventing transmission?

Vaccines that work against SARS-CoV-2 have helped change the course of the pandemic by reducing illness and hospital admissions. But Chris Stokel-Walker asks what we know about their impact on preventing transmission. The range of vaccines developed in record time by pharmaceutical companies...

www.bmj.com

 

[Birmingham]

that's not true mike. the data only shows an increased chance of getting covid the more injections you've had. before any injections were given out, people below the age of natural death had negligible chance of getting covid. not that covid has ever been proven to exist, but assuming it does and the data is true, your statements are the wrong way round.

 

[Birmingham]

for a closer look at the level of deception around the scamdemic, see the bbc's head of disinformation debate with the founder of the uk's leading truth paper

 

[MikeJ]

that's not true mike. the data only shows an increased chance of getting covid the more injections you've had. before any injections were given out, people below the age of natural death had negligible chance of getting covid. not that covid has ever been proven to exist, but assuming it does and the data is true, your statements are the wrong way round.

That's complete rubbish. I'm ignoring you now, as you're clearly a troll. I've reported one of your previous posts because it was full of lies, and that's been deleted. If the moderators had any sense, they'd remove you from this site.

 

[MikeJ]

I just can't decide what to believe, the BMJ or someone that uses the word "scamdemic".

 

[Birmingham]

wilful ignorance again. let me help you out - look at the actual studies cited by the BMJ to see how biased they are, or look at critical analysis of them if you can't do that for yourself. by the way it's not hard to find the data corroborating the counter argument. ps what's wrong with the word scamdemic, is it too unbound by snobbery? too founded in freedom? everyone knows what it means, so it's a perfect word.

 

[Ozzy]

This thread has run it's course and before it deteriorates I'm calling it a day. Everyone has had a chance to voice their opinions and some will have to just agree to disagree.