Living Person and Natural Sovereign Defence?

[UKSBD]

Just to confirm the other contributions that this story is utter nonsense. It’s quite clearly a completely fictional story, as it’s not corroborated in any credible news source, and if a judge in any UK court had hugged a defendant it would have been front page news.

The fact that the story has been repeated and applauded on Facebook and TikTok merely reinforces my belief that most users of such platforms are gullible idiots.

2 cases just this week where our local council made people bankrupt for using "Freeman of the Land" arguments

https://premium.stratford-herald.co...ncil-gets-two-bankruptcy-orders-over-9446000/

If that is behind a paywall you can read more here - https://www.stratford.gov.uk/news/press.cfm/current/1/item/138665

 

[FreddyG]

I accept the law is fundamentally abstract, but it is enforceable. The true legal test case would be fractional reserve banking and creating money from nothing.....

No chance! FRB is permitted and regulated by various legal and regulatory instruments, primarily the Banking Act of 2009 and rules from the PRA and the FCA. The idea that FRB happens in a legal limbo and is free of rules and regulations is drivel of the highest order!

 

[The Resolver]

If this story was in any way true it would appear in the Law Society Gazette. It does not.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

If this story was in any way true it would appear in the Law Society Gazette. It does not.

It was a Civil Court so no transcript or case number gets published?

The rumour mill also suggests that the Judge in the case has been relieved of her duties- will find the Judges name & post up at some stage.

 

[fisicx]

It was a Civil Court so no transcript or case number gets published?

Yes they are. But there is no central record. They could be in the national archive or held locally.

 

[Michael Loveridge]

I

The rumour mill also suggests that the Judge in the case has been relieved of her duties- will find the Judges name & post up at some stage.

No you won’t, as it’s typical Faecesbook rubbish. By the way, did you hear they just found a WW2 bomber on the moon?

 

[cjd]

It's 100%, copper-bottomed bullsh1t. This sort of cr@p is everywhere and those that want to believe it do. God help us.

 

[UKSBD]

it must be true, I just created found a photo of it

 

[eteb3]

Looks just like a magistrate. I’m completely convinced

 

[eteb3]

Is there any evidence if anyone not paying council tax, gas and elec and water rates (which are now tied into your tenancy agreement) in a Council House? Id love to know. Is it any different? TiA

Council tax is due from the occupier of residential property. It doesn’t matter if they own or rent, or who they rent from, or even if they’re squatting

Utilities are subject to a statutory contract that the occupier is deemed to have agreed to by using the utilities, even if they havent made contact with the utility company. Again makes no difference; except that council and housing association tenancies are almost always exclusive of bills, while private tenancies often include them, so they’re the landlord’s liability

The whole sovereign individual thing is total bollox as all have said. They’re effectively repudiating the law as binding on them. But I imagine they would be the first to say the law is binding on a thief who steals their sovereign undies off their sovereign washing line.

 

[campbeji]

Has anybody come accross the argument that that a living man or women naturally sovereign is not bound by Government Laws or Statues?

Just reading up on a recent Magistates Court Case where Northumbrian Water took Yvonne Watson to Court to get a CCJ for unpaid water bills.

The Judge recognised that she was a Living Person not bound to her legal name Yvonne Watson and as such the debt was unenforceable.

Yvonne Watson was in effect a Corporation created by the state and as a living or natural person the plaintiff has no contract with Yvonne or whatever she wants to call herself.

The Judge made a point of hugging the defendent at the end of the case.

Had a client recently who is arguing the same defence against a personal tax debt.

Hi,

I don't really understand how council tax works, as I have never paid any. I am a bit confused by this argument as I thought that corporations did not have to pay council tax and that it was a bill on the occupant or person who lives there. So to me, it seems that in this case it would be better to be classed as a corporation.

This is obviously a nonsense, so I don't really need anyone telling me i'm being silly, I know I am.

The other thing I find strange about this Soverign citizen thing is that they claim to be a natural person with the rights given to them by the divine or whatever. I'd have thought that the laws and protection that we all enjoy (although far from perfect) is a result of many years of the community/country deciding what is right and wrong. I wonder how long they would last if they were excluded from those rights and protections? The term 'Law of the Jungle' springs to mind.

Jim

 

[eteb3]

I thought that corporations did not have to pay council tax and that it was a bill on the occupant or person who lives there.

It’s the occupier of residential property that pays council tax. The occupier of business property pays business rates. In either case the occupier may in theory be a corporation. It’s rare for a corporation to be liable for council tax but it can happen: eg, property company can be liable between lets

The other thing I find strange about this Soverign citizen thing is that they claim to be a natural person with the rights given to them by the divine or whatever. I'd have thought that the laws and protection that we all enjoy (although far from perfect) is a result of many years of the community/country deciding what is right and wrong. I wonder how long they would last if they were excluded from those rights and protections? The term 'Law of the Jungle' springs to mind.

Yes the natural law basis of this ruse is great until you point out that all the natural law theorists said that political authority was necessary by natural law, also, and that the prince has a particular duty to see that his laws are enforced

 

[fisicx]

Do all these sovereign citizens walk to the shops and refuse to pay VAT?

 

[Stuart_Walker]

The judge accepted Yvonne’s statement as being truth, and on the record. She also recognised Yvonne was asserting her status as some personal hardship. While Yvonne technically did not win the case, and costs were awarded against the fiction, they cannot be collected, as Yvonne herself has declined to form joinder with that fiction in this situation. She is not a “paper slave”, but a sovereign being. When the hearing was over, the judge, clearly moved by her personal courage, came down from her podium and gave Yvonne a hug, and invited Northumbrian Water into a conversation about what had happened — which they declined. It isn’t like they can complain about judicial bias, as the judgement notionally went their way.

I'd be incredibly surprised if a professional judge hugged a defendant!