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Keyword rich domains

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This thread started with someone asking a valid question and he's had a range of opinions in reply. It's up to the O/P to make his mind up which is the best advice and, more importantly, to seek some opinion from elsewhere to get a balanced view.

However, I thought it would be interesting to see what the highest value exact two word domain sold for compared to the top hyphenated domain. I didn't spend a lot of time looking but this is what I've found.

CreditCards.com - $2,750,00
DataRecovery.com - $1,659,000
Hotel-Reservation.com - $210,000

Does anyone have an example of any more high value hyphenated domains?
 
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crossdaz said:
This thread started with someone asking a valid question and he's had a range of opinions in reply. It's up to the O/P to make his mind up which is the best advice and, more importantly, to seek some opinion from elsewhere to get a balanced view.

However, I thought it would be interesting to see what the highest value exact two word domain sold for compared to the top hyphenated domain. I didn't spend a lot of time looking but this is what I've found.

CreditCards.com - $2,750,00
DataRecovery.com - $1,659,000
Hotel-Reservation.com - $210,000

Does anyone have an example of any more high value hyphenated domains?
Click to expand...

Not quite as simple as looking at the prices paid now.

Historically many keyword domains were available and for large branded companies a lack of hyphen could be an advantage.

Now days few of the good keyword domains are available hence the use of hyphens.

Problem price wise is that only the enlightened realise that there is very little difference in the ranking power of a domain ,whether or not it has a hyphen,which of course applies to the domain extension also.

There is a video by Matt cutts that explains that google treats both domains with hypens and extensions the same.

Earl
 
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sirearl said:
There is a video by Matt cutts that explains that google treats both domains with hypens and extensions the same.
Click to expand...

you mean they treat hyphenated domains and non-hyphenated domains the same?
Do you have a link to this video?
 
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sirearl said:
Can't find Matts video but this may help:

http://www.google.com/support/webma...um=1&query=hyphens+in+domain+names+more:forum

Earl
Click to expand...

The video you're thinking about refers to top level domains - which isn't relevant.

The links here are asking if there is some kind of disadvantage to using hyphens. Of course there isn't a disadvantage - again it's irrelevant and goes back to fisx's argument about google recognising separate words. Nobody is arguing otherwise.

The crux of the argument is that you say a hyphen in a domain is just as good as its non-hyphenated counterpart. It isn't because the exact match (non-hyphenated) always has, and still does, gets counted as a ranking factor.

People who do this stuff everyday know this to be true - as do the people who pay top-dollar for domains.

The trolls who keep piping up and asking for proof can think what they like. I'd rather compete with a fool than a wise man any day of the week.
 
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crossdaz said:
It isn't because the exact match (non-hyphenated) always has, and still does, gets counted as a ranking factor.
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What are you talking about.?

No one types in an exact match if there are more than 1 word.:|

The clue is in the space.:)

Hence why as google treats hyphens as a space,there will be an advantage in certain circumstances.

Earl
 
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sirearl said:
Problem price wise is that only the enlightened realise that there is very little difference in the ranking power of a domain ,whether or not it has a hyphen,which of course applies to the domain extension also.
Click to expand...

...yet we're still waiting on this proof, oh enlightened one :rolleyes:
 
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sirearl said:
No one types in an exact match if there are more than 1 word.:|
Click to expand...

OK, I think I've got it.

You think because two words would naturally have a space then google recognises a hyphenated domain as a search query with a space in it.

What you're missing is the fact that google can recognise an exact match in two words combined and take that as a signal that you are bound to be on topic for that term.
 
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crossdaz said:
OK, I think I've got it.

You think because two words would naturally have a space then google recognises a hyphenated domain as a search query with a space in it.

What you're missing is the fact that google can recognise an exact match in two words combined and take that as a signal that you are bound to be on topic for that term.
Click to expand...
So why can't google recognise that a hyphenated domain is just as good an exact match? Everyones seems to be advising that a set of concertise keywords is better than the a hyphenated set. I'm just suggesting that there is no appreciable difference. As demonstrated by the seomoz testing and the reduction in influence noted in the 2011 survey.
 
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I bought a few domains and played around. With one domain i put a basic site on that linked through to mine. With the others i redirected them.

The one with the site has never come up on google in the first 10 pages and the others I keep "just in case".
 
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fisicx said:
So why can't google recognise that a hyphenated domain is just as good an exact match?
Click to expand...

You've got that back to front. Google doesn't need to recognise anything. Google chooses what is better, we as webmasters need to recognise which Google has chosen.
 
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fisicx said:
So why can't google recognise that a hyphenated domain is just as good an exact match? Everyones seems to be advising that a set of concertise keywords is better than the a hyphenated set. I'm just suggesting that there is no appreciable difference. As demonstrated by the seomoz testing and the reduction in influence noted in the 2011 survey.
Click to expand...

It's historical innit. You didn't need a hyphenated domain 5 years ago did you.
There is a lot of hangover from when search was a new technology - they can't just switch things off but they can push things in the right direction.

Including hyphens in the domain thing would just open up a whole can of worms - better to just continually turn the dial down on what is being gamed to death.

Just look at the emphasis on branding that is happening now.
 
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JohnnyCash said:
You've got that back to front. Google doesn't need to recognise anything. Google chooses what is better, we as webmasters need to recognise which Google has chosen.
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And google has chosen that both formats have almost exactly the same weight and that this particular element has a low SEO score when compared to all the other elements. There was an SEO boost last year for an exact match domain name, I've got a nice niche with a hyphenated domain that did very well. But this doesn't work anymore. As I said, look at the seomoz tests and surveys, they agree with my supposition.
 
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I have heard that Google is going to devalue exact match domains. But Still I would recommend you to go for that exact match domain. No doubt go for it.
 
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JohnnyCash said:
Presumably even if you don't believe keyword domains themselves give you a benefit, you do agree that links with that anchor text do?
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I don't disagree...

I don't have anything to do with the niches you mention (moral grounds), however I would say that everyone dealing in those niches is in the same boat, so some lateral thinking is all that's required. ;)
 
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WeblinkPlus said:
I don't disagree...

I don't have anything to do with the niches you mention (moral grounds), however I would say that everyone dealing in those niches is in the same boat, so some lateral thinking is all that's required. ;)
Click to expand...

But how can you say keyword domains are worthless, if they also have a direct influence on anchor text? I think for a lot of sites (if you don't ever intend to be a brand, just an seo play) an exact match domain is a brilliant investment. As if I ever get around to doing something with that debt site, I'll have the anchor text benefits forever, all in return for a one off $1800 payment.

I would be interested in hearing how lateral thinking could get you a link to say a Viagra site. Even if you come up with a story to tie it in with, like this http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/04/21/russia_robbery/ nobody is going to link to you as its on a viagra selling site. The only realistic chance you would have was a bait and switch, make it a site about funny viagra stories then once you have all the links, turn it into an ecommerce store.
 
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bdw said:
I have a site on Software Evaluation. It does quite quite well in Google with it's hyphen. It's first of 45 million results and I am happy to accept that the domain name plays a big part in this. Google software evaluation.

.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't read too much into that... your site is the only one in the top 20 that is ranking the homepage rather than an internal page AND starting their page title with that phrase (a good indication someone is actively trying to rank for it).
 
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Even seomoz suggest that there is a difference with "exact match domain" and "exact match hyphen domain" they do not and never have held them in the same light.

Suggesting a hyphen just gets treated as a space and therefore is the same as the non hyphen, i can not understand that persons train of thought in regards to this in the slightest.

bing-v-google-domain-name.gif
 
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sirearl said:
There is a video by Matt cutts that explains that google treats both domains with hypens and extensions the same.
Click to expand...


This is for URL's. The url is the string of text after the trailing slash.

I have really struggled to find anything that talks about domains from google for the difference between the hyphen and non, you know the now topic of this thread :p
 
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Massey , the devil is in the detail. Seomoz show a 0.06 difference in correlation. That's statistically insignificant (but you need to understand how standard deviations work to see why). And if you read the 2011 ranking factors survey they say the significance of keywords in the domain name has reduced by 20%.
 
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sirearl said:
Even who.?:D:D:D

here is an example of a hyphen domain doing pretty well at No2.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=ca..._gc.r_pw.&fp=4f061ee8aa4abfcf&biw=939&bih=562

also kwik-fitinsurance does pretty good for the major "car insurance";)

Earl
Click to expand...

Seriously... if you're not going to post a sensible example why bother?

Your first one is pagerank 7, higher than anything else in those top 10. You can't use an authority site of proof that those domains are getting a benefit in the search engines... you need to use one that has less links and authority than the sites its ranking above.

I don't even know where to start with your second example.
 
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JohnnyCash said:
Seriously... if you're not going to post a sensible example why bother?

Your first one is pagerank 7, higher than anything else in those top 10. You can't use an authority site of proof that those domains are getting a benefit in the search engines... you need to use one that has less links and authority than the sites its ranking above.

I don't even know where to start with your second example.
Click to expand...

So you think the little green bar is important.?:|

That explains a lot.:p

Earl
 
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JohnnyCash said:
I think Seomoz testing is generally garbage... they are not running scientific tests. They're running sales pitches.
Click to expand...
So if the tests aren't reliable why did you thank Massey?

Going back a million pages in this thread, I questioned the absolute statement that a non-hyphen domain will always get an SEO boost and it will always be greater than a hyphenated domain. I'm sure examples can be made both ways which leads to the supposition that there is not appreciable difference. There are no absolutes in SEO, it is the aggregation and integration of ranking signals that matter.
 
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sirearl said:
So you think the little green bar is important.?:|

That explains a lot.:p

Earl
Click to expand...

Well I'm certainly not going to spend half an hour looking at the backlinks of the top 10 results to try and prove your latest trolling attempt wrong... so yeah the fact it has toolbar pr7 is a general indication that the site has some domain authority. Maybe it rented lots of links and removed them recently, I don't know.

Assuming it does have backlinks, then its a completely garbage example from you as usual.

How about you either put up or shut up... show us a single example of a hyphened domain getting a bonus in Google please.
 
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fisicx said:
Going back a million pages in this thread, I questioned the absolute statement that a non-hyphen domain will always get an SEO boost and it will always be greater than a hyphenated domain. I'm sure examples can be made both ways which leads to the supposition that there is not appreciable difference. There are no absolutes in SEO, it is the aggregation and integration of ranking signals that matter.
Click to expand...

But when lots of examples can be made in one direction, and near enough none in the other, that should tell you something.
 
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All it tells me is that people haven't cottened onto the usefulness of using hyphens in their domain names. Once people realise that both are pretty much equal as an SEO signal more will be used.
 
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JohnnyCash said:
Well I'm certainly not going to spend half an hour looking at the backlinks of the top 10 results to try and prove your latest trolling attempt wrong... so yeah the fact it has toolbar pr7 is a general indication that the site has some domain authority. Maybe it rented lots of links and removed them recently, I don't know.

Assuming it does have backlinks, then its a completely garbage example from you as usual.

How about you either put up or shut up... show us a single example of a hyphened domain getting a bonus in Google please.
Click to expand...

I give up on you laddie.

I suspect a detached retina or some other problem needing urgent medical attention.:|

Earl
 
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fisicx said:
All it tells me is that people haven't cottened onto the usefulness of using hyphens in their domain names. Once people realise that both are pretty much equal as an SEO signal more will be used.
Click to expand...

Lol, thats funny stuff.

So the amount of money people are investing in exact match domains and profiting from them over the last 5 years, and you think none of them have yet realised hyphen domains are just as good?

Don't you think all these people either tested it themselves, or common sense told them it wasn't true from seeing lots of search results on a daily basis?
 
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Not at all. It is the aggravation and relationship between the ranking signals that is important. The keywords in domains names think has a very brief life as a more important signal but that has gone.

They thing I keep stressing is the statement that non-hyphen is ALWAYS better than the opposite is misleading. There are a good number of niche sites that do very well with hyphens. That's all I'm trying to suggest.

I'd also suggest that those who really want to make a profit head for the brand name rather than the keywords.
 
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Cheers for the advice guys.

The whole argument with regards to hyphenated keyword rich domains vs non-hyphenated is certainly an interesting one, but it's not really the question that needed answering.

I need to know how much of an improvement a hyphenated keyword rich domain would provide over a domain that didn't provide an exact match (hyphenated or otherwise). As stated in the OP, would www.car-insurance.co.uk (hyphenated keyword rich domain) provide much SEO benefit over www.bobsinsurance.co.uk (non-hyphenated non-keyword rich domain) for the search term 'car insurance'?

I appreciate that it may well have been answered already somewhere in the thread, however there are clearly a lot of posters in here that know their stuff when it comes to SEO and I'd very much like their input on the above query, rather than the hyphen vs non-hyphen for same domain.

Thanks.
 
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Ant84 said:
Cheers for the advice guys.

The whole argument with regards to hyphenated keyword rich domains vs non-hyphenated is certainly an interesting one, but it's not really the question that needed answering.

I need to know how much of an improvement a hyphenated keyword rich domain would provide over a domain that didn't provide an exact match (hyphenated or otherwise). As stated in the OP, would www.car-insurance.co.uk (hyphenated keyword rich domain) provide much SEO benefit over www.bobsinsurance.co.uk (non-hyphenated non-keyword rich domain) for the search term 'car insurance'?

I appreciate that it may well have been answered already somewhere in the thread, however there are clearly a lot of posters in here that know their stuff when it comes to SEO and I'd very much like their input on the above query, rather than the hyphen vs non-hyphen for same domain.

Thanks.
Click to expand...

Someone will be along in a minute to say I'm wrong, but car-insurance.co.uk won't get any direct benefit in the search engines over bobsinsurance.co.uk for the phrase "car insurance".

But it will get a benefit indirectly, as when you list them both in directories or you pick up some natural links, you are far more likely to get a "car insurance" anchor text with that hyphened domain.
 
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