Income Potential for a Bookkeeper

[Wild Goose]

Wild Goose - What do you want to know? I like the idea of free acoounts all else billable, work on the basis that the compliance stuff at year end is only a by product of the main value adding services throughout the year.

The idea would be like the antiChrist for Ronald Baker - goes against his theories about pricing on the margin, and not leaving money on the negotiating table by underpricing your services - and yet I too like the idea. Jury's out at the moment.

What I would like to know is whether you have managed to knock together anything on a spreadsheet that would enable you to input from spreadsheet to Sage / Quickbooks etc. I'd experimented with using a spreadsheet as a data input source, rather like a manual journal sheet, to auto input into TAS books. Put on ice when I hit probs validating data (weeding out accidental alpha from numeric, for example).

Are you working along those lines? I can see how spreadsheet entry to eg Sage would speed up the inputting.

 

[DFL]

I'm not doing anything on these lines but I like your thinking

 

[Blackberry]

what systems are people using that operate this way?

are they bought in or designed in house?

 

[Wild Goose]

what systems are people using that operate this way?

are they bought in or designed in house?

You'd have to design your own, or have it designed for you. It's about having the data entry fields better laid out - imagine the convenience of copying and pasting a row of Sage data in a spreadsheet - using a macro - and then just altering the fields that differ.

Different thing - I read recently about someone in the States dabbling with voice recognition software for data entry. Not sure whether that would ever cope with our regional accents here in the UK.

 

[Blackberry]

are there no systems that could be bought off the shelf to be used with Quickbooks or Sage?

 

[Wild Goose]

are there no systems that could be bought off the shelf to be used with Quickbooks or Sage?

Well none that I know of, Lucille. Unless someone in one of the Sage clubs has come up with some such useful add-on.

What spreadsheet input would do is to swap the cumbersome but user-friendly data entry screens for columns of data, so I'm not sure that's something companies like Sage would want to promote. After all, it's taken them decades to get from binary / ASCII data (think along the lines of Morse code) on cardboard punchcards, and later paper and magnetic tape to something more readily understandable for their end user. Would they really want to turn the full circle and go back to low-level coded input?

It's what large companies build for their bespoke software though - a slicker front-end data-entry interface, to speed things up, as well as validate batches of data (for sensibility, error, duplication etc) before importing into the accounts program.

If you're thinking of having a bash, start by importing some data say from TAS or Kashgflow into Sage and see what format it takes. Then emulate that format on a spreadsheet.

The tricky bit comes with validating the data - you need to weed out inputting errors (say where someone enters an alpha O when they meant to input a numeric 0) as well as build in checks to ensure the data is valid (the same way Sage will tell you if say a VAT field is not within a tolerance of 17.5%). For our size clients, the time necessary to perfect those sort of checks would have used up too much of the time saved, so I put it on ice. Maybe it's one for Terry - it's more up his street.

 

[artystitches]

Just my 2p worth, i work as a management accountant and have to post hundreds of transactions onto sage i basically set up standard journals which i use every month and just change the neccessary details and import into sage this can get a lot of transactions into sage very quickly and saves me bundles of time at month end when i am under the most pressure and when i have to get tons of postings on to sage very quickly.

and if you a small amount of time at the end checking that your journal to be imported if correct then it will save time later having to correct entries you have posted onto sage incorrectly.

It is all about having a good system of doing things that will save some time. everyone has there own way of doing things but if you come accross a more efficient way try it out and see how it goes.

 

[adventurelife]

Getting back to the OP's original point. I pay £20k per year for a book keeper on a full time basis so costing me a lot more with NI etc

This thread has now got me thinking how I could change her role from being a cost to a break/even or maybe profit center

 

[DFL]

Voice recognition software is the future - great potential

 

[Feldon]

I have tried voice regoniction software, i believe the best on the market at present is Dragon by Nuance, although I was using it for doing inventories for letting agents, I guess it could be used in this way, but it can be frustrating to use sometimes.

 

[jeffdavies]

Oh I seem to be an expensive Bookkeeper at £15~£20 p/h. This includes P&L, VAT returns and stock take & weekley payroll for 50 staff.
However I try to steer away from hourly rates and really only use them as a guidline for extra work, I guess all said and done it has to go back to job costing, as such there is no point having a client in Scotland who requires a site visit weekley if you live in Cornwall and then charging hourly rates?

 

[Isypeasy]

This is a very interesting thread, I personally would not like to work in the way that DFL describes, but there is space for everyone here.
I am AAT qualified, I make a comfortable £32K pro rata working 3.5 days a week on average in the South of England. I cycle to my clients, I have very little overheads; you can get insurance for £50 a year if you shop around and advertising is word of mouth. I started out at £12/hr when I was still doing the AAT course, but I upped my rate, as I had clients literally begging me to charge them more, and I am still being viewed as cheap, some people I know around here are charging up to £25 per hour for not very good work.
I am not really in it for making a fortune, I enjoy working for small local businesses who truly need my services.
Some of them would not be around today if their bookkeeping had not been on top of, and however talented they are in the respective trades, they couldn't face the paperwork alone.
Believe me, if you deliver a proper, solid service and advice to the director of an SME, they will see how critical and valuable this is to their business and you won't have a problem with your hourly rates ever.
The deal is, I help them thrive, they help me thrive. I am proud of working like that, what a great job!

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

This is a very interesting thread

and old thread!

 

[maidofkent]

I upped my rate, as I had clients literally begging me to charge them more

Will someone please tell me where to get clients like this?

MoK

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Will someone please tell me where to get clients like this?

MoK

in your dreams

 

[Wild Goose]

in your dreams

Maid of Kent your website is a bit of a nightmare:

Main page ("Bookkeeping") raises a security warning "The current webpage is trying to open a site in your Trusted sites list..."
The "current site" is http ://googleads.g.doubleclick.net
The "trusted site" is res://ieframe.dll
Broadly, MOK, it's trying to plant a doubleclick bug on your prospects' computers. Very offputting.

Menu link to "Contact Me" doesn't work -that's why your phone isn't buzzin'

I'm viewing in IE8 btw.

 

[paul britton]

Hi
One of the best ways to increase the profitability of being a self-employed bookkeeper is to outsource some or all of your workload. this leaves you free to a. spend more time ON your business, NOT in the business b. you can add further value to client with advice/support etc. Effcetive outsourcing makes you look good in fron of the client and leaves you with management time. At 5.00 per hour it cheap and secure.

regards

paul

 

[gouldie0]

Hi
One of the best ways to increase the profitability of being a self-employed bookkeeper is to outsource some or all of your workload. this leaves you free to a. spend more time ON your business, NOT in the business b. you can add further value to client with advice/support etc. Effcetive outsourcing makes you look good in fron of the client and leaves you with management time. At 5.00 per hour it cheap and secure.

regards

paul

What? I must be confused :|

 

[bungee0872]

I am a AAT internediate just about to start AAT Technician althought I am part Qual through experience 19 years +.

Once you enrol with the AAT can you use this a registered bdy when doing peoeple book keeping. Also do you sign of the accounts and does it include the tax only I have never done this?

If someone could let me know thanks and also where to get started.

I have done P/Ledger Sale Ledger P & L B/Sheets reconcilations wages for 100+ employees Vat on computerised systems.

 

[maidofkent]

Me too.

I'd struggle to outsource work for £5.00 an hour. I'd worry constantly about what was being doing with it.

MoK

 

[maidofkent]

Me too.
I'd worry constantly about what was being doing with it.

MoK

What I meant to say was; "What was being DONE with it." (Couldn't edit the post, for some reason).

MoK

 

[paul britton]

If you outsource work it's really important you have really good; communications (so you can provide clear instructions and recieve queries) and; a secure method of passing info. When you provide instructions you will dictate the; tasks, priority; and expected time-lines.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Guys - of you go down this route give consideration to your PII, client record care, ensuring that the outsource are ML registered etc

If something gores wrong e.g. client records are lost - guess who will be blamed.

 

[paul britton]

As i pointed out above, security is a key consideration when outsourcing.
All data should be sent via a secure server.
this also means that you will retian all original hard copies of client files, so they can't get lost.
Further, you and the service provider will sign a non-discloure agreement forbidding distribtion of client info (so it won't end up on the internet!).

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

As i pointed out above, security is a key consideration when outsourcing.
All data should be sent via a secure server.
this also means that you will retian all original hard copies of client files, so they can't get lost.
Further, you and the service provider will sign a non-discloure agreement forbidding distribtion of client info (so it won't end up on the internet!).

It is also ensuring that one complies with any relevant institute requirements for client records security, privacy etc plus ensuring that the client is fully aware of what is happening to their records.

Plus the other points I raise - there are a few admin issues to sort out on setting up such an outsource arrangement where the firm have Institute regulations to follow.

 

[paul britton]

It is also ensuring that one complies with any relevant institute requirements for client records security, privacy etc plus ensuring that the client is fully aware of what is happening to their records.

Plus the other points I raise - there are a few admin issues to sort out on setting up such an outsource arrangement where the firm have Institute regulations to follow.

not withstanding existing client contracts, if you transmit personal data outside of the EU then permission from the individual must be sought. However if you outsource within the EU (for example cyprus) this is not required. Although you may choose to inform the client or not. of course you should always seek to work with a provider that holds a relevent DP licence.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

not withstanding existing client contracts, if you transmit personal data outside of the EU then permission from the individual must be sought. However if you outsource within the EU (for example cyprus) this is not required. Although you may choose to inform the client or not. of course you should always seek to work with a provider that holds a relevent DP licence.

For the ICAEW there practice guidance on this including:

ensuring that the subcontractor is properly supervised as an Accountancy Service Provider for MLR 2007 purposes?

 

[publ]

I outsource my book keeping and I pay £100 per month, this is done by a guy in India, and never lets me down

 

[E Storey]

I outsource my book keeping and I pay £100 per month, this is done by a guy in India, and never lets me down

Well, since he is India you can't just hand him a bag of receipts, I take it you key in all the data somewhere along the line? then I suppose he does not submit VAT/corporation tax returns as your agent.....

suddenly looks like much less of a good deal? but if you know better....

 

[E Storey]

As i pointed out above, security is a key consideration when outsourcing.
All data should be sent via a secure server.
this also means that you will retian all original hard copies of client files, so they can't get lost.
Further, you and the service provider will sign a non-discloure agreement forbidding distribtion of client info (so it won't end up on the internet!).

Really... why would it matter so much if someone knew your finances? They are published in the company accounts anyway...

 

[Williams lester]

I outsource my book keeping and I pay £100 per month, this is done by a guy in India, and never lets me down

You could have got a qualified UK based accountancy firm for less than that!

 

[Julies bookkeeping]

I have enjoyed reading this old thread again.

Update from me, I now charge £13 ph, but I am starting to implement fixed fees though current clients are reluctant to change.

I would not be able or want to outsource abroad.

 

[London Bookkeepers]

It depends largely on the location. Charging £15-20/hr in London is fine I think but the further away from London then the less the going rate. Obviously if you are not as experienced then you're not going to be able to charge quite as much.
I think the problem with outsourcing to India is that although the bookkeeping skills may be of a good standard, the communication may not always be as good as you may need.