How do I get work on a chat line please

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iArtist

  • #41
    crewgirl25a said:
    Either way I hate to sound hard, but this is a business forum, and this isnt really about business its about playing a game which I have seen and recognised many times before called [urlno="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transactional_analysis#Why_Don.27t_You.2FYes_But"]Why Dont You? - Yes But![/urlno] Its popular game in forums and a total waste of time. We could all play spotting the game 'why dont you? - yes but' in lots of other threads too :)
    Click to expand...


    If you believe this person to be dishonest, simply ignore the thread.

    It's really not hard.
     
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    Spiderden

  • #44
    GasAngel said:
    It dosen't back up anything up, it just confirms she's trying it on elsewhere.
    You don't have to be sherlock holmes to work it out.
    Click to expand...
    The point I was making is that it shows her previous attempts to find work in France going back to Nov last year, which backs up some of what she's been saying.

    You don't have to be Sherlock Holmes to work it out :rolleyes:

    Anyway, I don't want to get involved in this little squabble you lot are having.

    As you were.
     
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    scieurs

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  • #51
    I never imagined in my life I would cause so much trouble when I posted my original message.

    I had, as someone already pointed out been on a French website asking about info and was given this site address. The daily papers like the mail, telegraph etc would not post my question but accept money from adverts for chatlines placed which amused me.

    I then went on and asked the same question about a chatline as I feel with so many English speakers in France there may be a need for this service by an English speaker. Far from getting help apart from a handful of sensible and kind people who have taklen the trouble to send me private messages and I have thanked, I have been abused, accused of all sorts and had my mental state put into question.

    To answer you all once and for all. I am perfectly sane thank you. I am not depressed, suicidal or anything else, just looking for a chance to keep myself and aired my views and asked for thoughts and advice.
    I am also perfectly genuine. I have no desire for anyone to send me money for nothing. I could be offered a job in the UK but could not take it and have said befor I wish to remain here if possible as I have nothing and noone in England to help me either and at least it is hot and sunny here and it is abetter place to live.
    When clearly I have am trapped in France for the moment I have nothing to gain from either of these suggestions and it just shows how stupid some people are to think that way and how shallow they are.
    I simply wanted to ask the opinions and advice of people imagined were serious business people but it goes to show how wrong you can be when you see the quality of some of totally irrelevant, malicious and ill informed messages. I just wanted advice, nothing more, about a business venture and f I ahd written I want to sell eggs noone wouldahve batted an eyelid.

    If you read the highlights of my C.V fine. I had good jobs in the past. The "personal statement" is exactly that and most people are asked about hobbies at an interview, mine includes running.
    I have an good (athletic) figure which shows I am unlikely to have obesity, diabetes or heart disease which shows any potential employer I am fit and not likely to be off sick all the time from work, not relevant for this type of work but important to others and the C.V has been sent to all sorts of businesses.
    I have money in the bank which shows an employer I am serious and looking for a good position not desperate for work as it is all about what each of you has to offer, the employer and the employee. If you are deperate and will take anything, you will probably leave the moment a job with more money comes along wasting their training time etc. I had thought some of the readers on thissite may have at some time interviewed and understood but presumably not. My mistake proof I know morethan they do abotu interview technique and am well used to getting headhunted.
    Whether you like it or not it is my "personal statement" none the less. I can only repeat there is no scam and to the person who thpught I was after Richard Gere or someone to whisk me off my feet! Forget it, I am not interested in getting a man I am still trying to pay for this past mistake and am not that stupid.

    I do not have to explain anything but felt in the light of all the vicious comments all of which helped not at all and merely prove the immaturity of some of the writers, I agree with the person who said "if you don't like a post why spend so many hours on it?" Who owns the problem? "Ban me" someone wrote, do pray why? I have not doen anything other than ask for advice and if that is a crime why not tar and feather me too?

    I was in the supermarket working this morning and was speaking to a customer who asked how on earth an English person got a job as it is a miracle, and I told them I am only there until the end of the month, I half heartedly said I was thinking about the chatline idea after in the hope of geting money in laterand the lady said "well, you have the voice for it" and wished me luck thinking it was a good idea.

    PLEASE DO NOT spend the next week writing about that it is just info! and proves my point there may be a need for this service and if I can get pointed in the right direction could make a regular income which is exactly what I wanted to achieve when I started this. Look how many people have viewed this thread for example.

    Anyway thankyou to the people who have helped and to others please go and annoy someone else, keep looking for aliens or scams or whatever but if you have nothing worthwhile to contribute to help me why not please go away?
     
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    maxine

    maxine

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  • #53
    I wish you luck too and for what it's worth I have been following this thread from the start but haven't posted as yet as didn't feel I had any advice to contribute although I did ask Kate1 to respond.

    You seem confident with your CV but I would suggest a few alterations from a prospective employers perspective

    * The reasons for leaving could either be taken out altogether or revised to be a bit less emotional or even just put a paragraph in somewhere else such as "Career History" explaining very briefly your move between companies. As it reads at the moment it may give the impression that you leave somewhere whenever the MD or key person leaves.

    * GasAngel picked up on your paragraph in which you describe yourself as attractive and whilst you may think this comes across as healthy employee and not likely to take much time off for sickness the other way this can be taken is that you might be a bit too full of yourself (sorry, just being honest)

    * As you seem to have been promoted and headhunted on the basis of your achievements and track record I would consider you putting a section into your CV on Achievements either in each job role section or as a separate paragraph near your personal statement and career history.

    * Tailor your CV for each job application so it looks as well-matched as possible for the job you are applying for.

    I have absolutely no advice to give whatsover on the sex chat line job/business but it seems a bit mad that with your background in sales and marketing that you cannot exploit this experience and achivement a bit more and take on some telesales/telemarketing roles working from home doing this. I would have thought that using your experience in your time of need would be less risky than starting out in a job or business that you haven't got experience in.

    Good luck and I would just say to anyone being snotty on here to watch out as none of us know what fate has around the next corner for us :)
     
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    scieurs

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  • #54
    I appreciate your message and the time you have taken. In France a C.V is one page only and ofcourse all the experience counts for nothing without a French diploma and companies in another country mean nothing here and are unknown. This is the frustrating bit I come up against all the time. But I will keep trying don't you worry and as you say noone knows what is around the corner. "one day you are the window one day you are the fly." I will get my wings back and then watch out I will have a different story to tell then and yes am positive, have had friends support me who I don't want to let down by giving in and too bloody minded to just give in rot that is for sure. Thank you again.
     
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    Zeno

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  • #57
    I don't think the mods appreciate my sense of humour because my posts keep disapearing.

    In all seriousness, I honestly do not believe that you can make money from this any longer.

    Who wants to talk on the phone when you can chat over t'interweb via a webcam with pictures for a fraction of the cost? (Ahem, so I have been told...)

    And as nice as your figure may be, I am not advocating you get a webcam and erm, get them out.

    I can only advise that you stop posting threads like this before you are contacted by some dubious, sleazy scumbag (Not me, I'm busy...) who will either sell your details to God knows who or possibly even have you shipped to a knocking shop somewhere.

    I honestly think you best bet is to come back to the UK. You can then get back on your feet by getting a proper job.
     
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    iArtist

  • #58
    Zeno said:
    I don't think the mods appreciate my sense of humour because my posts keep disapearing.

    In all seriousness, I honestly do not believe that you can make money from this any longer.

    Who wants to talk on the phone when you can chat over t'interweb via a webcam with pictures for a fraction of the cost? (Ahem, so I have been told...)

    And as nice as your figure may be, I am not advocating you get a webcam and erm, get them out.

    I can only advise that you stop posting threads like this before you are contacted by some dubious, sleazy scumbag (Not me, I'm busy...) who will either sell your details to God knows who or possibly even have you shipped to a knocking shop somewhere.

    I honestly think you best bet is to come back to the UK. You can then get back on your feet by getting a proper job.
    Click to expand...

    Don't be so ridiculously sexist

    1.sex lines obviously make money, otherwise there wouldn't be so many of them.

    Some men specifically get off on phone sex, web cam covers a different niche. It's like saying no need to cater for the foot fetish market now we have access to full nudes. It's unrelated in terms of sexual gratification.


    Phone sex really isn't that big of a deal. There are worse ways to earn a living on the phone. Telesales for example ;)

    2. When the male escort posted asking for business advice, he did not receive abuse. Quite the opposite.

    Who knows why an allegedly degree educated man with business acumen and other income streams and so on prostitutes himself. No one even questioned his credentials or claims. It was all 'accepted' as the gospel truth.

    This is a new member to this board, and why she'd want to remain here after the hositle reception is beyond me but I salute her for doing so.

    If she asks for advice on setting up a phone sex line it is not our role to dissuade her.

    The male escort wasn't advised to go do data entry instead now was he?

    Rather he had lots of chaps asking him how they could get into the biz themselves.

    All these double standards rather remind me of an article I wrote

    The Egg and Sperm Race.
     
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    Zeno

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  • #59
    website copy said:
    Don't be so ridiculously sexist

    1.sex lines obviously make money, otherwise there wouldn't be so many of them.

    Some men specifically get off on phone sex, web cam covers a different niche. It's like saying no need to cater for the foot fetish market now we have access to full nudes. It's unrelated in terms of sexual gratification.


    Phone sex really isn't that big of a deal. There are worse ways to earn a living on the phone. Telesales for example ;)

    2. When the male escort posted asking for business advice, he did not receive abuse. Quite the opposite.

    Who knows why an allegedly degree educated man with business acumen and other income streams and so on prostitutes himself. No one even questioned his credentials or claims. It was all 'accepted' as the gospel truth.

    This is a new member to this board, and why she'd want to remain here after the hositle reception is beyond me but I salute her for doing so.

    If she asks for advice on setting up a phone sex line it is not our role to dissuade her.

    The male escort wasn't advised to go do data entry instead now was he?

    Rather he had lots of chaps asking him how they could get into the biz themselves.

    All these double standards rather remind me of an article I wrote

    The Egg and Sperm Race.
    Click to expand...

    If this was a woman who knew exactly what she was getting into I may be more inclined to agree with you but I believe the OP is clutching at straws through desperation.

    She clearly has no idea what is involved in the sex industry and will likely be easy prey to the dubious people that inhabit that world.

    I would not be surprised if this is how many women in the sex trade get started.

    How many young girls in knocking shops all over the world were they were going to be models? Then how many of them were told you just have to talk to the men, no more?

    It this makes me sexist then so be it and get back to your kitchen Woman.
     
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    iArtist

  • #60
    Here are some more useful links

    Meanwhile, you can post on twitter, but it isn't likely to generate any income just as having high viewing figs here won't.

    That is unless you set up a blog or website (can do a blog free, see wordpress or blogger.com) and then have links to redirect traffic to your own blog where you market the call service yourself from there etc.


    http://sonefex.com/app/

    http://paidopps.blogspot.com/2007/07/how-to-become-paid-phone-sex-operator.html

    http://www.blogvocal.com/
     
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    iArtist

  • #61
    Zeno said:
    If this was a woman who knew exactly what she was getting into I may be more inclined to agree with you but I believe the OP is clutching at straws through desperation.

    She clearly has no idea what is involved in the sex industry and will likely be easy prey to the dubious people that inhabit that world.

    I would not be surprised if this is how many women in the sex trade get started.

    How many young girls in knocking shops all over the world were they were going to be models? Then how many of them were told you just have to talk to the men, no more?

    It this makes me sexist then so be it and get back to your kitchen Woman.
    Click to expand...


    Naive

    There are women doing much worse without being paid for it my friend.

    Women who go to pubs, invite a stranger for sex in the pub loo, then 5 mins later they invite someone else. No charge!

    Taking strangers home from bars

    etc etc etc

    Phone sex is possibly the safest form of sex there is, no std's and if one is sensible and the number can't be traced to an address and no personal info is exchanged........

    I understand your concerns.

    But they are very misplaced.

    The Op has 'chosen' this route and if you read her posts on other forums re this topic, it's not a desperate choice, rather a calculated one. That is my impression.

    Meanwhile, perhaps you should 'save' the male escort? he is afterall meeting potential bunny boilers for pleasures of the actual flesh.

    ;)
     
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    Zeno

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  • #63
    website copy said:
    The Op has 'chosen' this route and if you read her posts on other forums re this topic, it's not a desperate choice, rather a calculated one. That is my impression.
    Click to expand...

    I really don't think so. If she had the cash, I suspect she would also be buying scratchcards.

    Of course, it is up to her and if she chooses to do this then good luck to her. I don't claim to know anything about it, but I very much doubt it will be the easy money she thinks it is.
     
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    I

    iArtist

  • #64
    Zeno said:
    You wouldn't happen to know any would you?
    Click to expand...

    I knew this was coming next :)

    No

    But I know a few who think nothing of sleeping with married men, men whose gf's have just given birth and other unscruplous acts. They disrespect themselves in every way, every day. Taking all manner of abuse along the way.

    Being single and nattering on the phone is tame in comparison and when you think about the above, considerably more self respecting.

    Give me an honest hooker to a cheating best friend anyday. Not that the OP is one of those, but just to illustrate the point!
     
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    iArtist

  • #65
    These are some of the tips from this site sex line operator advice blogpost

    KEEP IN MIND:

    1. NEVER pay to work. If the company asks for any form of investment, run away as fast as you can.

    2. ALWAYS be sure to ask if your number is protected. They should have double or triple coding which means your clients have no way of calling your real number.

    3. Be sure to check and see what happens if the job doesn’t work out. For example, what if you try it for three weeks then hate it – can you just quit? Read the fine print in detail before you sign anything.

    4. Before signing up with any company find out what and when pay is. Keep accurate track of all of your calls and other info. Be sure to know any payment triggers ahead of time (i.e – you must earn $25 before you get a check by mail, etc)
    "

    excellent advice there!
     
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    I

    iArtist

  • #66
    Some great feedback here from actual sex line operators

    eye opening!


    Secret Life of a Phone Sex Operator


    The mature operator
    "I'm 60 years old, have a BA in cultural anthropology from Columbia University, and I've been married for 25 years. I have a son in his last year of college who lives at home. He's a double major in English Literature and Religion. Men call me for an infinity of reasons - but mostly for what I call 'Executive Stress Relief'. It's not sex; it's a cocktail of testosterone, fuelled by addiction to pornography, loneliness, and the need to hear a woman's voice. I make twice the money I made in the corporate world. I work from home, the money transfers into my bank account daily. I'm Scheherazade: if I don't tell stories that fascinate the Pasha, he will kill me in the morning."

    The natural
    "When I first started I was nervous. But after a while, I guess you could say the kinkier the sex talk, the more I was like: Wow! The phone is like my new toy. Let's just say I have found myself and my sexuality through this. I find myself attracted to females just like I'm attracted to males, so yeah, you can say I play for both teams. I really enjoy being a phone-sex operator!"

    The working mum
    "I've only been a phone-sex operator for a few months now to help with extra income - I'm a single mother of two young boys so money is very important to me. I'm in a loving relationship with a wonderful man who loves my kids and treats me very well. He understands that I'm only doing this part-time, to help save for my children's college fund."

    There's more on the site linked above.
     
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    newbienew

  • #67
    Firstly I don't think there is anything wrong with working on a sex-line, there are many worse jobs.

    The OP mentions that in France one has to pay social charges whether income is made or not...this is simple not true. Kate points out a possible solution in that she might use a portage (a kind of 'pay as you go' solution for the self employed in France a bit like an umbrella company) or visit the chamber de metiers, but the OP dismisses these solutions out of hand stating that she has always worked 'legally'...this is a mad response, l live in France and portage salarial is used precisely by people who WANT to be legal and pay their charges as they go rather than work on the black...while chamber de metiers will give official help to setting up a businesses.

    There is also a scheme called auto-entrepreneur will allows people to be self-employed and pay charges only on profit...you make no money you pay no taxes. The latter solution has only been around since january true, but the portage scheme has been available for years - there are even those that cater specifically for people working as Immobiliers. Surely anyone searching desparately for a solution woudl be aware of that.

    The lady may previously have been unaware of the portage system - but surely, keen to find any type of lifeline and with such an enquiring mind, she could have simply googled it.

    The 'why don't you - yes but' element in this ladys posts that crewgirl points out is glaringly obvious...but I'll bite...if you want to start the telephone line work, simply call a number of existing companies as suggested, once you have found one who you can work through, you can conduct the service legally through the Auto-Entrepreneur scheme...you can just class your work as 'telephone operator' or similar if you don't want to put the real job title down for any reason...I'm sure if you are creative you can come up with a title. if work is not forthcoming or is sparse, then you wont have to pay any taxes or social charges at all and you can earn up to 32,000 Euros before you have to move into another bracket...that should keep you going for a bit.

    Secondly - use google to find your nearest office dealing with 'Travail Entraide'....even in this climate, I've noticed that they have found quite a lot of work for friends of mine - some of whom speak very little French.

    The section of your cv mentioning your appearance needs to be altered. It's just not professional - and as a recruiter I would worry that the writer of the cv was a little odd. I would not employ a marketing person that didn't have the empathy to see that this section could be seen as strange by some people...an unpopular male HR manager short-listing such a c.v. might be frowned at for selecting it in some instances. What's wrong with writing 'healthy' and 'presentable'. Nothing wrong with using looks to get a job, but in that case stick a mug shot on like the rest of us....listing self as attractive is not very clever marketing.

    If you love living in France as much as you say, why not sell your house for an undervalue / give away price... buy something smaller and put the loss of a few thousand down to life and a little bad luck .... c'est la vie and the recession...it happens to the best of us.

    Violent husbands are not exactly a blessing from God true...but I know and hear of people in far worse dire straits than you every day. Your situation actually didn't sound that bad to me at all : )
     
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    scieurs

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  • #69
    Once again I have to thank the lady who wrote before me and is clearly a very sensible person I am sure. I have no knowledge of a man writing about being an escort and do not wish to be a prostitute. I do however think as the lady before, sex chat lines are safe for the operator and are anonymous for both parties. I think if a person wishes to ring and talk that is for them as a consenting adult to decide is right for them at that time. For the operator if the person feels it is a way to earn money again as a consenting adult it is for that person to do or not do.
    I think that starting all of tis on this site has proven there are a lot of people intersted in this subject and a lot of clients perhaps for this type of work or as the lady before writes there woud be no chat lines.

    I am truly disappointed however by the "voyeurs" amongst you who pick up on a word or phrase in a message and obviously are aroused by some very odd mental picture which is entirely in your own mind and suggest a cold shower instead of writing banal or stupid drivel (which does not actually help me or my research.) may be of more use to you at times. One or two of you are I feel more dangerous than any clients I may have to speak to in the future and I would hate to have to do any sort of business with you as I am sure are other people on this site.

    As for double standards. If men (and it is mainly men who use the sex chat lines, prostitutes and so on.) actually stopped and thought of what they were doing as wrong and stopped there would be NO prostitutes, or chat lines or sex industry what so ever. It is not an idustry fueled by the workers but by the clients Look at the disgusting people trafficing that goes on throughout the world, it is run by men for men and is more lucrative than drug trafficing as sadly you can sell a woman 10 times a day for a year and only sell drugs once. This however is another subject entirley and not what I am proposing to do it is just a sex chat line, not rocket science and I was looking for information as I keep pointing out to find out about it as a safe means of earning money..
     
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    Zeno

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  • #72
    scieurs said:
    As for double standards. If men (and it is mainly men who use the sex chat lines, prostitutes and so on.) actually stopped and thought of what they were doing as wrong and stopped there would be NO prostitutes, or chat lines or sex industry what so ever. It is not an idustry fueled by the workers but by the clients Look at the disgusting people trafficing that goes on throughout the world, it is run by men for men and is more lucrative than drug trafficing as sadly you can sell a woman 10 times a day for a year and only sell drugs once. This however is another subject entirley and not what I am proposing to do it is just a sex chat line, not rocket science and I was looking for information as I keep pointing out to find out about it as a safe means of earning money..
    Click to expand...

    A strange attitude for someone seeking to profit from it is it not?

    Have you even checked that this is legal in France? For all we know the French authorities may consider it prostitution or living from immoral earnings.

    I will be hugely surprised if this is the license to print money you think it will be.
     
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    scieurs

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  • #75
    Re your message earlier, I am already registered as an auto entrepreneur thank you. I do not think going to the metiers office will be a good idea as I am not going to set up a business as a plumber or anything similar but can as pointed out pay charges as a telephone operator under the different scales of charges under the auto entrepreneur scheme.
     
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    iArtist

  • #76
    I don't know why people are so prudish, I'd have no problem with being a sex line operator. If I felt I had any natural ability in that area. Which I don't, phone sex bores me to tears. A bit like folding the washing does.

    Meanwhile

    Here are some jobs where women are

    leered at
    sometimes sexually harrassed
    invited to engage in sexual acts despite that not being on the menu


    * waitresses
    *bar maids
    *receptionsists
    *models
    *air hostesses

    you get the picture

    oh I forgot one

    Zoo keeper

    Yes you read right

    I used to be a zoo student and there was nothing more enticing to get those randy zoo keepers going than a 5ft4inch blonde in a set of poo stained kharki overalls designed for 6ft4inch male.

    Men will get excited about just about anything!

    If you're an attractive woman and you work anywhere near men, you can fall foul of any of the above at any time.

    Even in the army women experience sexual harrassment and even rape.

    Sex line nattering is really no big deal when conducted with ALL safety protocols.

    Meanwhile the Op didn't ask for a moral lecture neither does she need one.

    For those who are weirdly concerned with how she replies to others. Sometimes she replies in private mail. Sorry that you don't get to hear what we're all saying.

    :)

    Have a nice day one and all.

    I'm away for a week soon so be good while I'm gone.

    Leah
     
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    newbienew

  • #79
    Just in case anyone happens to be thinking of moving to France and is put off by tales of having to pay taxes whether you earn or not if you are self-employed.... the OP's first post is a little misleading. I am not nit picking as, as I said, the telephone work she's interested in is as good a way to earn a living as any...it's hurting no one...and I actually think it probably saves people from getting hurt.

    BUT the OP did give the impression that as a self-employed person she'd had to pay charges whether she earned money or not. This is just simply not correct, people in the service industry working as everything from property agents to IT contractors in France can pay charges only on their income (ie no profit no charges) by working through a portage as Kate kindly mentioned and this has been the case for over a decade. I'm not correcting this to 'get at' the OP...simply to correct the impression she gave as I know a lot of people can work remotely and may well be considering the move. It's just important to find out the best way to do things in a cost effective (and legal way) in the same way that one man bands having a UK Ltd for the sake of it can work out very expensive when another structure will do the job equally well, with lower costs.

    The Auto-Entrepreneur scheme referred to, in case anyone is interested, is generally suitable for work with low expenses as expenses cannot be claimed (if your expenses are higher, for example you are an IT person and have to travel, working through a portage is a good bet as expenses can be claimed). Auto-entrepreneurs in the service industry can earn approx 32,000 Euros a year. Because telephone work such as the OP is seeking, virtual assitant work etc, tend to have low outlay - they are great occupations for conducting in France where housing costs can be lower, quality of life can be better etc.
     
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    scieurs

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    Charente, France
  • #80
    I beg to differ ofcourse with the message before about charges on income as if you read my earlier postings you will see I was working as an independant agent for estate agents from 2002-Dec 2007. The auto entrepreneur scheme came into existence only this January so did not exist when I was paying 1000 euros to work. I paid for URSSAF, RAM and the other charges, and only earned commission which was paid at the time of signing an act of sale which on average would take approx 3 months from the buyer agreeing to purchase. Then when the tax forms were issued for revenue I was taxed on my income aswell so I hope that clears thigs up. This year had I been still working for estate agents I would have paid only on my revenue but as I gace up in Dec 2007 as the market died, I did not benifit from this scheme and ofcourse ahve relevant documents to prove it not that it is at all relevant to this posting as in fact I was asking aobut getting involved in being an operator for a chat line and not asking aobut social charges in Francve and once again it wppears people are getting of the point and simply writing about individual peoples circumstances when they have no knowledge or misread earlier postings. I am registered as an auto entrepreneur this year for my work givving Englsih lessons and was registered before under a different scheme and earned more than the tax threshold so paid accordingly. However being out of work later I was not entitled to "chaumage" which is unemployment benifit anymore than peole who are self employed in the UK are (or perhaps the system has changed there since I left I do not know and again it is not relevant) I think as the last few messages have ll been noting to do with giving me actual information for my business idea it is time to get back to that or stop posting and start a posting of your own on another subject now and I will be able to review all the helpful messages and look into things from the people who have kindly taken the trouble to offer advice on Monday as I am not then working but have been asked to stay at the supermarket for an further 2 weeks which thankfully gives me a little breathing space and I am very grateful for that.

    Thank you again everyone who has contributed and offered helpful advice and encouragement and now it for mem to look into this further and see what happens. It has obviously kept a great many peole entertained for while and as I said originally was never intended to be a means of extorting money or aything other than information so to all the peole who thought otherwise, it is a shame you do have more compassion but that is not my fault or problem.
     
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