help Plumber looking to get more business

[sam51]

hi all and good evening.

my name is sam, I am a plumbing and heating engineer.
with 30 years experience,
been self employed for 25 years.
but my work has become non existent.
as the builders Ive worked for have now retired.
the general public seem to all use these so called trust a trader websites.
why heaven knows, I don't want to go that route.
I guess, as I have never had to advertise,
I have buried my head in the sand and never gave a website a thought.
I do get these web designers all offering these wonderful websites.
but I think its no use if your on page 10 of google.
so could any of you guys recommend ways of generating work,
so I do not have to sell the house, as things are getting desperate.
thanks sam.

 

[CCSteve]

Hi Sam

Sorry to hear about plight

Where abuts are you based?
Websites work but it takes time

Have you tried networking? I network through BNI. I find it great and as a plumber you should get fairly quick results

Do you have a database of jobs you have been to? If yes then maybe a mailshot to previous customers

Estate Agents need good plumbers. Finding one who doesn't have a connection maybe more difficult bit you never know what you might get by walking in

Hope this helps


Steve

 

[roythehandyman]

Sam, I feel for you mate but you seem to have left things a bit late have you not. forget all those trust a trader type sites they are just parasites in my opinion. Dont be fooled by so called web designers that charge an arm plus a leg for a website, its not rockett science. You can build one as easy as falling off a log. I could help you with that if you like.

But first let me tell you that I lean on gas engineers very often and I like to think that I pass them quite a few jobs. So me thinks if I were qualified like yourself then I would hunt down people like myself. Kitchen fitters would be my first port of call, then builders. Do a google of such like that are in an area that you would be able to cover, Email them and let them know that you can help them out with the gas safe side of things. I have been in my business for many years and to date not one gas fitter has contacted me !!! I have had to hunt them down myself.

Times are hard Sam, gas fitters were thin on the ground a few years ago but these days there seem to be too many around. You have to network in order to get the work.

for an example, I have a gas fitter, structonal engineer, architect, Part p electritian, rubbish removal man and a solicitor in my phone. I pass them work and they pass me some. I am only a handy man but I am never without work. I do have a website (first page google and number one at that) but it is the networking that fills my diary.

 

[sam51]

thanks guys for the help so far.
as you might know, you don't have to be a computer genius,
to do my job, so I am a bit lame when it comes to this.
I have no idea about networking.
I did get an offer to pop along once to a bni breakfast morning,
all I was told £10, and bring plenty of business cards.
and the work would fly in.
normally if something is too good to be true,
then that seems to be the case.
so I did not give it any more thought.
with my certificates, gas safe, unvented g3, the old city and guilds,
approved viessman, baxi, and glowworm installer,
I never thought it would be this bad,
I guess its not what you know, its who you know.
by the way im in north herts,
where every man and his dog is a plumber.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Sam you need to confirm your membership from the email we sent to you as all your posts will require manual approval before they go live until you do this.

Cheers

 

[CCSteve]

Sam, I turned down BNI 3 times. That was 6 1/2 Yeats ago
BNI is not a get rich quick scheme you have to work at it
It's about building relationships

The main problem is finding a group that has an opening for a plumber. They don't give up their spots easily

However BNI will open doors and the business will start to flow (excuse the pun)

Let me know if I can help. I know people Rickmansworth who can find you a group in your area to loom at

Steve

 

[tony84]

the general public seem to all use these so called trust a trader websites.
why heaven knows, I don't want to go that route.
I guess, as I have never had to advertise,

You have never had to advertise... so you dont.
Everyone goes on a trust a trader website... but your not.

I think you know the answers to the problems but you dont seem to want to go down that route?

You have to move with the times and if that means getting a website or getting on trust a trader website or whatever is the current trend for your industry then thats what you have to do.

Your right in that there is no use in having a website on page 10 of google, but having a website is a requirement. Even if it is just to put on flyers, business cards etc.

As for leads, you can register on freeindex.co.uk - that might help to generate a bit of interest in your business/website.

You can also have your website on page one of some of the more obscure sear terms such as gas safe registered baxi approved in herts (for instance) obscure, not in high demand but if you get a few of them and a couple of hits a month it could generate in a few jobs here and there.

 

[CKG]

Surely you must have a gigantic customer list (1000s) after 25 years in the game?

If you don't have a list (old invoices?) you must be able to remember where you have worked over the years.

I'd start with reminding old punters that you still exist and ask for some recommendations. Either sending them a letter or giving them a call.

It's free for a kick off and involves only a tiny bit of effort.

Old customers are always your best source of new work.

They can only say no.

Do you still have the drive to bust your balls out on the tools all day or have you become a bit apathetic to the plumbing game as a whole?

 

[tony84]

CKG raises a good point.

On Sunday i sent an email to 9 people i was unable to help over the last 12-18 months. I have 3 appointments booked in on the back of them in 2 days!

 

[Homer J Simpson]

FREEINDEX because, well it's FREE !

Thomson local are currently allowing you to have a free trial of their business data list. Get yourself a free trial, get the names, addresses & numbers of builders, kitchen fitters etc and write & call them all.

Also, find a plumbers forum where I'm sure you'll get more advice and maybe even people on large jobs/contracts who could do with another plumber on board.

Worst case maybe use (and I'm never normally the one to recommend this), rated people, my builder etc. Just make sure you read their T's & C's (rolling membership etc) carefully and get some work in at least, it's probably not going to earn you a fortune, but it may just bring in enough to keep you afloat.

You may have to adapt your lifestyle until the work comes back in again. Cancel Sky and all other non-essential. There's no point watching all the sport and latest films if:-

A: you can't afford them
B: you should be spending the time looking for work.

That's not me having a dig at you, just my honest advice. I see too many people driving nice cars, who have sky, smoke & drink like there's no tomorrow and always complain that they're broke and there is not enough work out there.

 

[Homer J Simpson]

I don't know exactly what my plumber does to be so busy, but him and the guy who works for him are usually always booked up. If I need him just for an hour or so I usually get a spot after a day or two. For big jobs, he's probably not available for weeks.

The one thing I do know is that he does work for a few letting agents, not sure how much work that brings in.

Also, what about call out work? - naff hours but good money!

 

[amphis software]

here's a few suggestions

put a free ad on gumtree in the Building, Home & Removals Services section. include your location and tel numbers. there's other plumbers on there.

get your business name and tel number printed on t-shirts or hoodies and wear them when you are working and around town. that's a lot of advertising for the price of a t-shirt. include the same on your van if you can or even just on the windows. window stickers don't cost much.

register a web domain at somewhere like getdotted.com where you can also use their page creator to create a simple one page web site to get you started. include your location and tel numbers on the page. add the keywords like plumber, plumbing and heating engineer on the page and the locations you work in. add the location to the Title too, something like Plumbing and Heating Engineer <location>. then people googling for plumbing and heating for that location are more likely to find your web site.

lots of people on this forum will be happy to help you out if you make a start on this.

I hope that helps

Tom

 

[JoAnneNH2o]

Hi

We have had a plumbing and heating business for 3 years and joined a networking group 18 months ago. I must admit I was dubious at first but we signed up, and tbh it has brought us the majority of business in the last year. The referals don't happen instantly but once people start getting to know you and your work it really does pay off. We belong to 2 BNI groups now and one WIBN group and we get lots of work from both of those.

Good luck.

 

[Psl]

Hi Sam51, drop me a PM as I may have something that could help you.
cheers

 

[prjbicell]

Hi Sam

Sorry to hear of your plight matey

I deal in generating leads and doing surveys/EPC's for the free ECO Boiler scheme for those that are on benefits and qualify.

You are not exactly in my area but I could try to generate leads and get a GDA to do surveys should you be interested installing boilers around your area

Drop me a pm if it can help

Regards

Paul

 

[Risky]

Sam you're living in the past. You better get yourself on this trust a trader website asap whether you want to or not. The first thing people do these days is check where their money is going and the internet is the best place to find feedback and reviews. Times are changing and if you don't adapt to the change you won't last very long

 

[Colin Oswald]

Hi Sam
I'm a member of BNI and it works, the plumber, sparkie, builder all work together and they pass referrals all the time.

I also have a contact that will supply planning application leads at a very cost effective price, the benefit of these are the contacts have already made the decision to buy.

Please let me know if you require any info on this

 

[PDW Electrical Services]

hi all and good evening.

my name is sam, I am a plumbing and heating engineer.
with 30 years experience,
been self employed for 25 years.
but my work has become non existent.
as the builders Ive worked for have now retired.
the general public seem to all use these so called trust a trader websites.
why heaven knows, I don't want to go that route.
I guess, as I have never had to advertise,
I have buried my head in the sand and never gave a website a thought.
I do get these web designers all offering these wonderful websites.
but I think its no use if your on page 10 of google.
so could any of you guys recommend ways of generating work,
so I do not have to sell the house, as things are getting desperate.
thanks sam.

Dont mean to be harsh here matey but with that amount of experience and 25 years of self employment, to be in your situation you need to seriously rethink your business strategy

Have you just been relying on a small no. Of clients to bring in all your work?

You must of done work for lots of people during that time, you have to ask yourself why they are not still using you now for a start

 

[sam51]

hi all, after reading the replies some good some bad, and some where all they want to do is sell me something.
I have taken a few steps,
I have had my van sign written, not sure if this is a good thing,
as in the past it has not brought a lot of work in.
but was a good advert for the thieving pikeys where I lost 6k of tools.
I have brought a domain name, so need a website doing.
had a look at some,£150 for the nasty ones, to £600 for ones where I am not in total control. its extra for this, and extra for that.
I swear they make it up as they go along.
so if anyone can recommend, or do me a website, for the right price,
and know what there doing, I am prepared to listen.
thanks sam.

 

[tony84]

If you just want a cheap website, you can pay for hosting - there are people on here that will do annual hosting for £25 a year - that should be all you need unless your getting lots of visitors.
Look for wordpress themes online - a lot are free.
Then pay someone remotely techy £25-50 to install wordpress and install a theme.

That will atleast give you a basic site.

 

[TwiggedIt]

Hi Sam.

The first thing you should do if you haven't done it already is set up a Google local page for your business. This is completely free to do. It also means thanks to recent changes to the way Google shows local results you could well end up on the first page of Google Straight away for free.

If you search for "Plumber Ilfracombe" in Google, if you scroll down the page - the big block of results with phone numbers are all Google Local listings. You can create one of these pages for free. Just Google 'create a Google Local page'. You have to fill in some forms, they will send you a postcard to confirm you are based where you say you are, and you are away.

Then if you can get some loyal clients (like the builders you used to work for) to post some reviews for you on the Google Local page, you will already have a pretty good online presence.

It would probably be worth asking the builders you used to work for if they can refer you to any other builders, carpenters etc. that you know.

 

[JiffyDomains]

For you as a tradesman I would suggest building your own website and focusing on local marketing online, in the short term it may require a bit of time but it would be worth it. You could be at the top of Google for plumbing in your area within the space of 6 months if you work on the correct methods.

Many web hosts are learning that businesses an tradesmen have low budgets and don't wish to pay hundreds for a website to be designed, so they're incorporating a website builder into their plans free of charge.

 

[makeusvisible]

Many web hosts are learning that businesses an tradesmen have low budgets and don't wish to pay hundreds for a website to be designed, so they're incorporating a website builder into their plans free of charge.

It does always surprise me when it comes to tradesmen that many don't want to invest into a having a decent website.

Many of the Job's they tender for are over £10k.... yet they dont want to invest a couple of £k into a website. When it's comes to tradesmen this seems to be the norm, which means that online competition actually isn't very strong.

Stick "plumber your town" into Google and look at the top 10 sites... you'll be surprised how poor most are. If you have a GOOD website which is mobile friendly, tablet friendly and in the top 10, the competition generally isn't very stiff.

From what you have said, my advice would be to invest in a website, and invest time into a page 1 listing. As other posters have said, a local top10 may not be too tough to achieve if you invest your time properly. If you find the right designer they should also be able to assist you with this, and point you in the right directions when it comes to setting up your social profiles, and linking them to your website properly.

You might find this article of interest;

http://inspirationfeed.com/articles/design-articles/case-study-why-are-tradesman-websites-so-bad/

 

[Lolleo]

Worked in the trade myself for a bit.

Found flyers does drum up a bit of business but not that much. A website is the way to go. Doesnt need to be too fancy.

Anyhow OP has not replied recently to good advice given so can imagine has got a few jobs under his belt and everything is rosy again. Will be back mid-november when it slows down again.

 

[Alan]

It does always surprise me when it comes to tradesmen that many don't want to invest into a having a decent website.

One can only assume that is because they don't believe a website will give them a return on investment.

It would be interesting to hear the reasons for this from trades people.

 

[pickaweb]

That is a bit of a coincidence.
We recently interviewed Charlie Mullins, Britain's Richest Plumber.
He gave us his 10 golden rules.
You may find this super useful.
It also applies to any business type.
Check this out at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fnAURBATB34

 

[Basi Heating]

A plumbers website is just as essential as his tools are in this day and age.
We get a large percentage of our new business via our website, but a website is not an instant fix to your problem. It may be that you need to do something to support your income in the short term until you can launch your new site and promote it to the stage where it brings in work. Have you thought about approaching other builders and contractors in your area, and offering them a percentage based commission for any work they put your way? Desperate times call for desperate measure and this approach offers other a real incentive for others to help you.

 

[Beachcomber]

One can only assume that is because they don't believe a website will give them a return on investment.

It would be interesting to hear the reasons for this from trades people.

Broadly speaking, alot of trades are pretty poor at marketing in general and are wary of the costs / management of an online profile.

Usually these are the same trades that sit by the phone waiting for it to ring while complaining that there is no work out there 'because of the economy'!

My web site serves 2 main purposes - to get new business and to provide more background / info for people who see the van / card or get a recommendation. Worth it's weight in gold.

 

[Mezigues]

The door to door leafleting is now the old school stuff and you will have fewer chances than before web sites exist. Sure waste of time and money as paying for your own as you mentioned it will be on the 10th or 20th google page!

I have tried rated people , magic service , and recently had a look at myhammer.com they are a complete waste of time: their monthly fees and those to get the customer contact (leads) are far too high. Plus they give a guidance price to the customer and the potential tradesmen which are done by computerized guess game and not at all by a onsite visual assessing (which I always do to avoid any confusion and surprises), that is a very downgrading interference and purely ridiculous as it is unworkable. Plus having tried those site I didn't managed to be able to make any initial visit to sites. I even wander if a good proportion of ads posted are bogus! Don't expect to make a normal descent living with one of those sites. Some are advertising on TV and it cost ££££ paid by the tradesmen!!! I only can see doggy companies working for those sites.
I personally work for MyBuilder.com since a couple of years and they require a public liability insurance checked every year, then the tradesmen build he's reputation with a client feedback, their fees are very affordable...the rest of my customers(50%) are by recommendation.

 

[Mainland]

I have a mate who is a plumber in a similar predicament. He isn't looking outside the box with regard to pushing his business. We have been mates for years and regularly have a pint and discuss how business is going etc so I'm pretty up to date on the way he operates. From my observations I noticed that he really put the effort into getting the bigger jobs e.g new boiler, bathroom etc but tended to ignore the smaller jobs e.g. Tap washer, boiler service etc. In my eyes this is his downfall.

As one example take a boiler service, £40 for half an hours work. He would do the service and then leave to go to another job. I suggested why not get some stickers made to stick on the boiler saying when the next service is due and then make a diary entry to call the customer in a years time. How many customers are going to say no thanks when you tell them their boiler needs a service or they risk carbon monoxide poisoning and breaking the law etc?? Answer, very few. As a result he now has boiler services coming out of his ears which he can do when the bigger jobs are a bit quiet.

Seems all he needs to do is take a step back and remember he's a business man not just a plumber. If he can't cope with that he is better off as an emoloyee.

 

[Mezigues]

Sam you're living in the past. You better get yourself on this trust a trader website asap whether you want to or not. The first thing people do these days is check where their money is going and the internet is the best place to find feedback and reviews. Times are changing and if you don't adapt to the change you won't last very long

Probably true but be very careful which one to chose as they are a lot of crooks around and won't give a buck to leave you in a worst position that you are now...after they make sure you bring them enough profit! a lot deal with foreigners whom their employees don't even know about minimum wadge and canoe from one to the other after giving a bad name to the trade...this work for all trades in particular builders and decorators may be less for the specialized as clients check more on the certifications.

 

[julliawilson]

It's a great conversation and informative share.Thanks for sharing.

 

[Karllacey]

Okay Sam, I am going to attempt to give you some serious comprehensive advice on this subject and whilst I could attempt to sell to you, I am not going to..

Website - a website is a must, love it or hate it. you can spend a fortune on your website, or you can spend next to nothing. Do not see it as the be all and end all, the website for a tradesman is a shop window, nothing more. If you are not confident in building a template driven website like bonline.com or 1and1internet which costs you like £10.00 a month, then get a young person to do it - they just need to know their way around a computer.

Email - ensure you have a nice email like infoatyourcompany.co.uk and link it up with your phone so you can act on emails wherever and whenever.

SEO - As soon as your website gets up you are going to get hit by 1000s of so-called SEO experts. They will promise you all sorts of number 1 or top ten spots in google. Fact is 'SEO experts' means that they are not it is like saying your a brain surgeon who mends bikes for a living. If they are specific i.e Facebook expert, or LinkedIn expert they are worth listening to....

Marketing - Marketing can be a BIG black hole for any business and in some cases can bring businesses down entirely without any return on business. This is where you need to be smart. Marketing does not have to be expensive, you can get 500 business cards for next to nothing for your social networking like the BNI etc, you can pick up leaflets and get them distributed by royal mail by bulk mailing for next to nothing. Avoid using Yell paid marketing, every trades person does it and every person says there is no reward on it. Same with google adwords.

And this is where it gets better, marketing can actually be free!!! register with free online directories, submit your site to search engines (done three monthly I think), set up a blog on your website with news which search engines pick up. There is also the possibility to join freeindex which you can look for jobs and costs you nothing in the area.

I know it is cringy as I hate doing it, but setting up a positive youtube video and embedding it in your site. Set up Google places, Google +, linked in page, twitter, facebook, stumble upon, Tumblr and IPatter - All Free (unless you want to pay for them). Look for free press release sites and submit a well formed press release which will increase your overall web exposure.

Total cost of the above marketing advice: £10.00 a month!!!!

Direct Sales People - This is my field of expertise, there are a lot of sales people out there hunting for your business. In my 15 years in business development, I have met 3 other excellent sales people, rest were from okay to poor.

Advice on Sales - Contact local builders/property developers/estate agents/FM companies/property management/shopfitters - hell even call British Gas, your local Water company and anything you would deem falls within your trade. Have a database of people / contacts that you can call on a regular basis and manage all of the data well.

Total time this will cost you - about a week set up time, plus one hour a day maintaining social media

Avoid - Those agents like rated people, servicemagic etc. You will get leads but they will cost you and the return on them kind of balances out what you paid overall anyway.

Hope this is of assistance

 

[Mezigues]

Okay Sam, I am going to attempt to give you some serious comprehensive advice on this subject and whilst I could attempt to sell to you, I am not going to..

Website - a website is a must, love it or hate it. you can spend a fortune on your website, or you can spend next to nothing. Do not see it as the be all and end all, the website for a tradesman is a shop window, nothing more. If you are not confident in building a template driven website like bonline.com or 1and1internet which costs you like £10.00 a month, then get a young person to do it - they just need to know their way around a computer.

Email - ensure you have a nice email like infoatyourcompany.co.uk and link it up with your phone so you can act on emails wherever and whenever.

SEO - As soon as your website gets up you are going to get hit by 1000s of so-called SEO experts. They will promise you all sorts of number 1 or top ten spots in google. Fact is 'SEO experts' means that they are not it is like saying your a brain surgeon who mends bikes for a living. If they are specific i.e Facebook expert, or LinkedIn expert they are worth listening to....

Marketing - Marketing can be a BIG black hole for any business and in some cases can bring businesses down entirely without any return on business. This is where you need to be smart. Marketing does not have to be expensive, you can get 500 business cards for next to nothing for your social networking like the BNI etc, you can pick up leaflets and get them distributed by royal mail by bulk mailing for next to nothing. Avoid using Yell paid marketing, every trades person does it and every person says there is no reward on it. Same with google adwords.

And this is where it gets better, marketing can actually be free!!! register with free online directories, submit your site to search engines (done three monthly I think), set up a blog on your website with news which search engines pick up. There is also the possibility to join freeindex which you can look for jobs and costs you nothing in the area.

I know it is cringy as I hate doing it, but setting up a positive youtube video and embedding it in your site. Set up Google places, Google +, linked in page, twitter, facebook, stumble upon, Tumblr and IPatter - All Free (unless you want to pay for them). Look for free press release sites and submit a well formed press release which will increase your overall web exposure.

Total cost of the above marketing advice: £10.00 a month!!!!

Direct Sales People - This is my field of expertise, there are a lot of sales people out there hunting for your business. In my 15 years in business development, I have met 3 other excellent sales people, rest were from okay to poor.

Advice on Sales - Contact local builders/property developers/estate agents/FM companies/property management/shopfitters - hell even call British Gas, your local Water company and anything you would deem falls within your trade. Have a database of people / contacts that you can call on a regular basis and manage all of the data well.

Total time this will cost you - about a week set up time, plus one hour a day maintaining social media

Avoid - Those agents like rated people, servicemagic etc. You will get leads but they will cost you and the return on them kind of balances out what you paid overall anyway.

Hope this is of assistance

All that might be true but to me this is the point of view of someone who want to trade but not the one who need a trader...if you need a service most of people will Google, or ask around them...you haven't got a chance they found your personal website via Google (except insurances and other spammers) or any other obscure free yellow pages as they are too many...and only few know some...plus you will get so many spams and phone call for insurances...

 

[Lolleo]

Nice post karl and some good info. OP has not returned to this thread in a long time but hopefully some other people will find it in there search for good ideas and advice.

...

 

[Karllacey]

For clarification Mezigues, I am not looking to trade with the poster (forgive me if you meant otherwise) - it does say that at the top of the post that I am not looking for benefit here and in my sig shows I am a business developer.

All I am attempting to offer is comprehensive sales & marketing advice on a budget without any personal gain - that's it really

 

[zigojacko]

hi all and good evening.

my name is sam, I am a plumbing and heating engineer.
with 30 years experience,
been self employed for 25 years.
but my work has become non existent.
as the builders Ive worked for have now retired.
the general public seem to all use these so called trust a trader websites.
why heaven knows, I don't want to go that route.
I guess, as I have never had to advertise,
I have buried my head in the sand and never gave a website a thought.
I do get these web designers all offering these wonderful websites.
but I think its no use if your on page 10 of google.
so could any of you guys recommend ways of generating work,
so I do not have to sell the house, as things are getting desperate.
thanks sam.

Here's a good place to start if you haven't already...

1. Create a Google account.
2. Create a Google Local page for your business.
3. Create a Google Business page.
4. Merge the two together.
5. Add your business to numerous business directories on the web.

This process will also stand you in good stead ready for if you do decide to get a website for your business.

 

[zigojacko]

had a look at some,£150 for the nasty ones, to £600 for ones where I am not in total control. its extra for this, and extra for that.
I swear they make it up as they go along.
so if anyone can recommend, or do me a website, for the right price,
and know what there doing, I am prepared to listen.
thanks sam.

Here's some of the best advice you'll ever get. Many don't take heed of this though so the ball's in your court with this one...

Any business serious in using a web presence to generate leads and establish themselves as a leader in their field should be considering a website an investment, not an expense.

A website built right shouldn't be about knocking up a store front and adding some meaningless graphics and buttons. It should be developed and designed around your goals and highly targeted for your audience and what they need from your website. This is what converts visitors checking you out, into customers that call you up and book you for a plumbing and heating job. There is a big difference.

This is what you pay for. With everything I just mentioned, this immediately shows the flaw in the approach of looking for the cheapest website design quote.

You pay for the expertise, the commercial experience, the professional designers that take the time to understand your field (or already do) and research your industry understanding what your target audience need, want and expect.

If you go for the cheapest option, you don't get any of this. They don't care whether your site converts, they just churn our pre-made off-the-shelf templates on an open source CMS and twiddle a few colours and settings and often, what code they do actually touch, is often not correct, 'old skool' or just not even how web development should even be deployed. This is why they are cheap. It also often proves more costly in the long run because a) you lose all faith in the industry because what was originally built for you doesn't work and doesn't deliver what you were promised and b) if you haven't lost all heart in having a web presence, you'll invest again having your website revamped but possibly spending a bit extra to get something more out of it the second time around.

Too many businesses undervalue what should go into the build of a website. Too many "web designers" (and I use that term lightly) don't have the knowledge and professional experience to explain or educate their clients otherwise.

If you're on a budget, a decent web designer should be able to present you with a series of options available, the pro's and con's of each along with their recommendation of what would work well or not for your business and what each approach should produce what end result.

And this, is exactly why it seems like they make it up as they go along. Because they either do (because they don't have a clue what they're talking about) or you're speaking to designers with different levels of ability / knowledge or those that don't know how to value their expertise in what they can do for your business.

If you've taken on board all the above, then the next stage is identifying who can walk the walk as well as talk the talk and this is going to be impossible if you don't know a great deal about websites yourself so I'd certainly recommend seeking assistance from someone that does if you can to help make whatever decision you decide to take with this. But I hope that helps you get started.

 

[Karllacey]

Can't say I fully agree with you there Zigojacko. I have worked in high end technology systems, design, marketing and I currently work in the construction industry.

Whilst you are 100% correct about Google Places etc, that is encompassed in the free marketing post I made and the basic template driven websites can do an excellent job - IF they are right. I have managed to achieve the first page of Google on numerous terms by sending out the right messages with a budget of nil. Sure I am computer literate, but I have no real solid experience of SEO - however in 6 months on and off learning, I have picked up enough to be in a situation where 'most SEO experts' are at.

Competing in the industry where Sam is, he will find that spending a fortune on a website/SEO will find him at best 3rd or 4th page on Google, unless he goes for adwords which can be a big black hole in itself.

This is arguably one of the most competitive industries that I have ever worked in, but I am doing very good on my route to market and in my opinion, the website is just used as a point of reference (especially when accessing other commercial SMEs/Corporate Construction companies).

They wont use google to find you they will act on the information you provided and this needs to be managed on the phone. Again, this is not theoretical, I have done it twice with two different construction businesses in the last year.

As for the residential work, sure a website could help here but again you are faced with the prospect of the big construction companies (the multi-million/billion £) turnover builders and a one-man band cannot compete with their infrastructure on SEO. Result - website you have spent thousands on becomes pointless and that leaves the bad taste in the mouth.

Better to use infoserve on Yahoo Local which encompasses around 18% of the local traffic (compared to Google's 55%). You can get a paid ad at the top of the page (guaranteed top 4) for around £150 per 6 months (negotiable)

 

[zigojacko]

Can't say I fully agree with you there Zigojacko. I have worked in high end technology systems, design, marketing and I currently work in the construction industry.

Whilst you are 100% correct about Google Places etc, that is encompassed in the free marketing post I made and the basic template driven websites can do an excellent job - IF they are right. I have managed to achieve the first page of Google on numerous terms by sending out the right messages with a budget of nil. Sure I am computer literate, but I have no real solid experience of SEO - however in 6 months on and off learning, I have picked up enough to be in a situation where 'most SEO experts' are at.

Competing in the industry where Sam is, he will find that spending a fortune on a website/SEO will find him at best 3rd or 4th page on Google, unless he goes for adwords which can be a big black hole in itself.

This is arguably one of the most competitive industries that I have ever worked in, but I am doing very good on my route to market and in my opinion, the website is just used as a point of reference (especially when accessing other commercial SMEs/Corporate Construction companies).

They wont use google to find you they will act on the information you provided and this needs to be managed on the phone. Again, this is not theoretical, I have done it twice with two different construction businesses in the last year.

As for the residential work, sure a website could help here but again you are faced with the prospect of the big construction companies (the multi-million/billion £) turnover builders and a one-man band cannot compete with their infrastructure on SEO. Result - website you have spent thousands on becomes pointless and that leaves the bad taste in the mouth.

Better to use infoserve on Yahoo Local which encompasses around 18% of the local traffic (compared to Google's 55%). You can get a paid ad at the top of the page (guaranteed top 4) for around £150 per 6 months (negotiable)

No-one said anything about spending a fortune. My advice is purely about choosing the right supplier that will help take a business forward. Those that offer websites for $150 are not those people. Period.

I also didn't even discuss SEO at all....... All my points still stand regarding the website. And to say a one man band /small company can't compete with the national companies in organic search is pure nonsense. And that is EXACTLY why you need to make sure you choose the right supplier that knows what they're doing - it's my point entirely.