Help needed with defence and counterclaim

[japancool]

It doesn't seem that you have read the thread. At no point have I ever said that I withheld rent payments due to disrepair, nor have I asked for your opinion on merits of my claim. Your advice is not helpful to me .

I read the entire thread. If you reply to the courts the way you replied to my questions, then you will almost certainly lose.

You were asked if you know how many months you owe. You said you know how many. If you did not withhold all the rent, then you owe no months. Why can't you simply say that?

If you owe no months, then there are no "calculations" for you to do, and you can prove that by showing bank statements. I don't know why you keep referring to your calculations.

Because what you've written here shows tacit acknowledgement that you owe the landlord money. Unless you can state CONCISELY and CLEARLY that you do not owe ANY money, and have the evidence to demonstrate it, the court will pick up on that.

But then, it's your trial. You do what you think is best.

 

[Chocolates1]

I read the entire thread. If you reply to the courts the way you replied to my questions, then you will almost certainly lose.

You were asked if you know how many months you owe. You said you know how many. If you did not withhold all the rent, then you owe no months. Why can't you simply say that?

If you owe no months, then there are no "calculations" for you to do, and you can prove that by showing bank statements. I don't know why you keep referring to your calculations.

Because what you've written here shows tacit acknowledgement that you owe the landlord money. Unless you can state CONCISELY and CLEARLY that you do not owe ANY money, and have the evidence to demonstrate it, the court will pick up on that.

But then, it's your trial. You do what you think is best.

"But then, it's your trial. You do what you think is best."
Oh I will.

I don't have the time or energy to argue and keep going around in circles. Can you STOP, as I have already said I prefer the advice of other members. You are not helping and feel you are making my thread more difficult for others to read.

Once again, I think I will go with advice from some of the other members .

 

[Chocolates1]

As smallclaimsassistance pointed out, the courts like things done the correct way. There are plenty of helpful sites, citizens advice, debt forums etc.

From what I have read, and FWIW, use the forms sent to you, set things out in a polite, respectful manner, and stick to the important facts.

Firstly your defence, you reply to the landlords claims, point by point, factually, only use words when required. Judges tend to be busy, and want the bare bone facts, not your emotional rankings or wild accusations. So they claim you owe money, you submit what your defence is, ie all monthly rent was paid as per the agreement, as shown in bank statements, make copies, keep the originals.

You can then address the £2k arrears, the claimant has not explained how this figure has been arrived at despite your requests, you believe they have made a mistake etc etc.

You normally only get two weeks to submit your defence to the court, nothing to stop you doing so, but if you plan to do it yourself start doing your research ASAP, check and recheck, most importantly reply in time, the faster the better.

One simple point, as pointed out, you can easily trip yourself up, so never refer to the debt, it is the ALLEGED DEBT until the court decides otherwise. State debt and in effect you are admitting that you owe the money.

Lastly, check the claimant has followed all the correct procedures correctly, you might find plenty of defence in your landlord making simple mistakes in procedures.

Thank you for your reply.

I think you might have misunderstood some of the info - The arrears are not £2k. The alleged arrears are higher, and there is also a further discrepency of close to £2000 which I can only presume is legal fees added by the claimant?

I fully deny liability of any alleged monies owed.

The claimant has legal representation - I do not.

I will try to add more info later.

 

[japancool]

I don't have the time or energy to argue and keep going around in circles. Can you STOP, as I have already said I prefer the advice of other members. You are not helping and feel you are making my thread more difficult for others to read.

Unless the moderators ask me to, I'll post anything I think will be helpful to anyone else reading this thread to understand what not to do. Feel free to report my posts and ask the mods to tell me to stop or delete the posts. You don't have to reply to anything I write. Or put me ignore, it's not my loss.

 

[Chocolates1]

Unless the moderators ask me to, I'll post anything I think will be helpful to anyone else reading this thread to understand what not to do. Feel free to report my posts and ask the mods to tell me to stop or delete the posts. You don't have to reply to anything I write. Or put me ignore, it's not my loss.

Wow!

You're making it more difficult for me to communicate on my thread, so I can assure you you're not helping anybody

 

[japancool]

Wow!

You're making it more difficult for me to communicate on my thread, so I can assure you you're not helping anybody

I'm trying to help YOU, but you simply want to ignore advice you don't like. It'll help anyone else who reads this thread though.

 

[Chocolates1]

I'm trying to help YOU, but you simply want to ignore advice you don't like. It'll help anyone else who reads this thread though.

But you've been told several times that you are NOT helping me. I will take whatever advice I see fit. Your posts are judgemental, ignorant, rude and wasting everyones valuable time, including mine. Grow up

 

[japancool]

But you've been told several times that you are NOT helping me. I will take whatever advice I see fit. Your posts are judgemental, ignorant, rude and wasting everyones valuable time, including mine. Grow up

As I said, they're not helping because you're ignoring everything you don't want to hear. I even gave you a link that details the proper procedure you should have taken, to which you responded with "it's a private rent, not a social rent", which the link makes clear is not relevant - quite the opposite, in fact. But you didn't like reading that, probably because you didn't follow that procedure.

If I'm wasting your time, why are you responding to me?

 

[Chocolates1]

As I said, they're not helping because you're ignoring everything you don't want to hear. I even gave you a link that details the proper procedure you should have taken, to which you responded with "it's a private rent, not a social rent", which the link makes clear is not relevant - quite the opposite, in fact. But you didn't like reading that, probably because you didn't follow that procedure.

If I'm wasting your time, why are you responding to me?

I think it's you ignoring what you don't want to hear. You say you have read the entire thread, and you keep stating that I have withheld rent for disrepairs, which I never said in the entire thread and despite repeatedly correcting your misunderstanding, you don't seem to listen and keep repeating yourself, with incorrect information about my claim, which I have repeatedly had to reply to your posts, to prevent others from misunderstanding the facts, as the purpose of this thread is to enable people to advise appropriately. It's no good telling me what you think I should have done.

I suggest you read the entire thread again, very carefully

 

[japancool]

I never said in the entire thread and despite repeatedly correcting your misunderstanding, you don't seem to listen and keep repeating yourself

I'll repeat it again. You were asked if you know how many months of rent you owe. You said you do. To any normal person, that implies that there are some months owing. I suspect if you put that in your defence, the judge will ask you the same question.

If you are as vague as that in your defence, it will fail. You have to state on it clearly, and categorically, that you do not owe any rent because you paid ALL the rent due until the day you left, and you must be able to prove it by showing evidence.

I'm not telling you what I think you should have done. I gave you a link to what Citizen's Advice says you MUST have done to make your actions valid under the law.

 

[Chocolates1]

I'll repeat it again. You were asked if you know how many months of rent you owe. You said you do. To any normal person, that implies that there are some months owing. I suspect if you put that in your defence, the judge will ask you the same question.

If you are as vague as that in your defence, it will fail. You have to state on it clearly, and categorically, that you do not owe any rent because you paid ALL the rent due until the day you left, and you must be able to prove it by showing evidence.

I'm not telling you what I think you should have done. I gave you a link to what Citizen's Advice says you MUST have done to make your actions valid under the law.

But you sent the link stating I will lose my claim because I withheld rent.

I won't say it again. You keep asking the same questions - Which are already answered in the thread.

What makes you think I withheld rent for disrepairs? I never said that at all anywhere. I have also never stated that I paid ALL the rent due until I left.

I won't be replying to you again, as I cannot help you. Read the thread all over again

 

[alan1302]

I have also never stated that I paid ALL the rent due until I left.

So what is the landlord saying you owe them if you have all paid up? Did you leave before you should and just stop paying them?

 

[japancool]

What makes you think I withheld rent for disrepairs? I never said that at all anywhere. I have also never stated that I paid ALL the rent due until I left.

You stated that you didn't withhold rent. So why are there arrears?

Several people on this thread have asked a number of questions of a similar nature. Instead of providing a clear, concise and definitive answer, you give a vague response that doesn't actually answer the question. No wonder your first defence was thrown out.

Nevertheless, I'm sure you will come back and update us on how successful your defence was.

 

[Chocolates1]

Thank you for the replies so far - Some more helpful than others.

I might need some help drafting a defence and counterclaim. If anyone would be able to assist with this, it would be extremely helpful.

I thought it might help if I provide more information and if anyone can possibly help draft defence and counterclaim from this:

I moved into the property during the pandemic and various terms were agreed for the tenancy of the property, such as: It would be a long-term let, managed by the letting agency, unfurnished, garage included, any required access to the property for maintenance would be with express prior written agreement only and I would be present for any access, the property would be thoroughly cleaned prior to commencing tenancy.

Many of the agreed terms were breached by the claimant from the very beginning of the tenancy, including breach of covenant of quiet enjoyment of the property and a sustained campaign of harassment from the claimant from day 1 of the tenancy.

The property was handed over to me in a filthy condition - I would even describe as uninhabitable. Unclean floors, carpets, toilets, bathrooms, broken toilet seats, broken taps, mouse droppings, overflowing waste rubbish left dumped outside and on driveway and sharp pins scattered around the carpets, which I believe were left maliciously with intent to cause harm to my pets.

I had to deep clean the property myself, with various health conditions, high risk of Covid and also a spinal injury - Which made me physically extremely ill and exasperated my health conditions.

Various items of furniture were left behind which my removal company had to move into the garage.

Claimant didn't have legal consent from her mortgage lender to let the property, therefore no landlords insurance. Claimant has no regard for Covid safety or privacy, health of defendent. Negligent behaviour and breach of duty of care to myself and pets.

Various unreasonable requests for access made by the claimant from first day of tenancy onwards. Wanted to sell her furniture items from the property and invite buyers in, expected me to accommodate and wanted a property inspection on same day I moved in. Wanted access to the garage. Repeated unreasonable requests to visit property evenings and weekends to collect her mail, which was never re-directed.

Sent multiple texts harrassing me at unsociable hours for various random reasons, asked if I had received a speeding ticket for her, complained that I needed to mow the lawn asap as neighbour had complained it was overgrown when I had only moved in a week before. Text reminders to make sure I pay my rent on time.

Stood on the driveway by my car with her family for several hours shouting aggressively in another language.

Failure to repair gas cooker, broken shower, dishwasher. I also offered to arrange repairs myself and deduct from rent and was ignored. Claimant denied cooker and dishwasher needed repair. No working TV aerial - Had to pay for digital aerial myself and was refused a refund of the money paid. I continued paying the rent. Claimant threatened eviction for reporting maintenance issues.

Claimant did not pay energy bill before start of tenancy, so defendant was receiving threats in the post of debt collection agents.

Claimant made false allegations that defendent had breached terms of tenancy.

Got some of her neighbour friends to harass me, including one who called me a prostitute and stalked/harassed outside property. I reported to Police.

False allegations made by same neighbours to letting agent resulting in harassment from agent also.

Failed to inform me of annual sewage maintenance and arranged tradespeople to visit property without my knowledge, against terms of agreement and made further false allegations about defendent to agent and Police. In an attempt to force illegal entry and cause me distress claimant made a false, malicious 999 call to Police, for an alleged welfare check, resulting in Police attending on blue lights.

Threatened me with eviction. Served an unlawful retaliatory section 21 eviction notice at earliest opportunity after 4 months.

I offered to move out if my rent and security deposit was refunded. This was refused. I made several attempts to resolve - All refused.

All of the above caused me humiliation, distress and felt tormented, terrorised and intimidated. Prevented me being able to work due to severe psychological stress and the detrimental effect on my mental health. And the threat and fear of being made homeless.

Repeated harassment for payment of arrears, which accrued as I wasn't able to pay the rent, or move out quickly, due to finances, Covid, difficulties securing alternative accomodation.

I communicated all of this to the managing agent / claimant and they treated me with derision and contempt. Continued a sustained campaign of threats and harassment.

Sent gas engineer to the property without any notice and 2 men banging aggressively on the door, refused to leave.

The arrears accrued as a direct result of the above and claimants refusal to refund my rent paid (over £5000) and intentional infliction of emotional distress, resulting in mental and physical damages to my health and preventing me being able to work.

Damage caused to my credit rating and forced me into debt to be able to finance moving home again.

Claimant also opened/switched utility accounts in my name without permission.

I left the property in a much cleaner condition and claimant also unlawfully retained my security deposit of over £1200.

I therefore am not liable for the alleged rent arrears. I have evidence of all of the above in the form of contracts, inventories, photos, videos, CCTV recordings, text messages, emails, police records.

I counterclaim for:

Refund of all rent monies paid, as had no enjoyment of the property = £5250
Return of security deposit £1200 x3 as was unlawfully retained = £3600
Refund of cost of digital aerial, bolts for gates, and misc = £200
Aggravated damages / psychiatric injury / Special damages ?
Interest as allowable by court
Costs

I hope somebody might be able to help draft a properly pleaded defence and counterclaim from this information - Would very much appreciate any help.

 

[DavidWH]

With the greatest of respect you need to seek proper, legal advice.

This is a business forum, so perhaps not the best place for advice on this matter.

Although I agree with @japancool there has been some sound advice provided, you perhaps may not like it.

You've detailed your counterclaim but we still don't know what their claim is for, or the circumstances around it.

 

[Chocolates1]

With the greatest of respect you need to seek proper, legal advice.

This is a business forum, so perhaps not the best place for advice on this matter.

Although I agree with @japancool there has been some sound advice provided, you perhaps may not like it.

You've detailed your counterclaim but we still don't know what their claim is for, or the circumstances around it.

Unfortunately there isn't the time or ability to seek proper legal advice, as there is only couple of days left to serve the new defence and counterclaim. I have done all I can and did manage to have a 30 min phone consultation with a solicitor, as mentioned earlier in thread.

If I don't draft and lodge a new defence and counterclaim in time. The judgement will automatically be awarded to claimant.

From my understanding, their claim is for alleged rent arrears of around £9000, for the time that I became unable to make rent payments, until the time I moved out. The circumstances of which I have detailed above. I am fully denying liability for those arrears, due to the reasons outlined.

If there is any part of the additional info you need clarifying in more detail, I am happy to clarify anything in more detail.

To clarify, I did not "withhold" rent payments due to disrepair. I was initially served an s21 eviction notice in retaliation for reporting maintenance issues, which claimant refused to address. There were no rent arrears at that time, as I had continued paying the rent, despite the disrepair. The rent arrears began accruing after that and I was then served an S8 eviction notice. Does that help?

I am happy to clarify any specific parts of the additional info I have provided, if unclear - I have barely slept for days, so struggling a bit and would appreciate help to draft the defence and counterclaim in correct format. Hope that makes sense?

 

[fisicx]

...for the time that I was unable to make rent payments,

You are just making it more and more confusing.

Do you own money or not?

If you own money do you know how much?

If not can you prove it?

If you can't afford a solicitor to help compile your defence you will almost certainly lose.

 

[Chocolates1]

You are just making it more and more confusing.

Do you own money or not?

If you own money do you know how much?

If not can you prove it?

If you can't afford a solicitor to help compile your defence you will almost certainly lose.

Am only stating facts.

No I do not accept any liability for the alleged rent arrears and as stated, yes I can have evidence for every part of my defence and counterclaim

 

[fisicx]

If you owe rent you are liable. What you are doing is disputing the amount owed.

Everything else is irrelevant in the eyes of the law.

 

[Chocolates1]

Would very much appreciate if anyone could possible help with the drafting / wording / format of defence and counterclaim.

I think I will struggle to draft a properly pleaded one myself.

For example, is 'aggravated damages' an appropriate term, or should it be referred to as 'special damages'?

Should there be a statement of truth at the bottom. Does it actually have to be signed in ink, or is a typed signature ok?

Can I ask for costs and interest?

Can I specify any unlimited amount for certain damages, such as injury? Or should I not specify an amount?

Are there any specific areas of law I could include, such as the Protection from Harassment Act?

Does it help that I have previously offered to settle matters early, before any court action was commenced?

Am I allowed to submit video evidence and CCTV?

Should I state something like: If any of the allegations are denied, I can provide evidence?

Just any help with wording for the defence / counterclaim and which points to include would be really helpful.

 

[Chocolates1]

If you owe rent you are liable. What you are doing is disputing the amount owed.

Everything else is irrelevant in the eyes of the law.

There wouldn't be any alleged rent arrears if claimant had accepted my early offer to settle. I fully deny ANY liability for any alleged debt, for the reasons I have detailed. I owe her NOTHING

 

[fisicx]

She was not obliged to accept your offer. Have you paid rent up to the day you vacated the property? If not you are liable for the outstanding rent.

 

[Chocolates1]

She was not obliged to accept your offer. Have you paid rent up to the day you vacated the property? If not you are liable for the outstanding rent.

As previously stated, no, I became unable to pay rent, due to mental and physical health problems, and inability to work, as a direct result of the claimant harassment. The amount being claimed by claimant is around £9000, plus security deposit

 

[fisicx]

None of that is mitigation. That is a separate claim. You owe the rent. The dispute is the amount owed. The law is on her side not yours.

 

[Chocolates1]

None of that is mitigation. That is a separate claim. You owe the rent. The dispute is the amount owed. The law is on her side not yours.

The property was not as was expected, or agreed. The terms of the contract/agreement were breached by claimant. I was deliberately prevented by the claimant from moving out, and deliberately prevented from working. Claimant caused the "arrears" herself.

I don't see why you keep arguing this. I am not going to accept liability for alleged debt that I don't owe.

 

[fisicx]

Nope. None of that is relevant. You owe rent. You are liable.

 

[Chocolates1]

Nope. None of that is relevant. You owe rent. You are liable.

I'd prefer to let the judge decide

 

[fisicx]

I'd prefer to let the judge decide

Then you will lose. He has already thrown out your last defence. Nothing you have said here will change anything. You refuse to pay for legal advice to prepare a defence as explained by @smallclaimsassistance so you will lose. The legislation is very clear in liability for rent payments.

 

[Chocolates1]

Then you will lose. He has already thrown out your last defence. Nothing you have said here will change anything. You refuse to pay for legal advice to prepare a defence as explained by @smallclaimsassistance so you will lose. The legislation is very clear in liability for rent payments.

Not all people can afford to pay for legal assistance and I have had only 6 days to re-submit. With your advice, I may as well do nothing at all. I don't agree and think that's incorrect to advise me to admit liability for alleged arrears. Not really helpful. I didn't ask for your opinion of merits or liability.

 

[Newchodge]

Is it acceptable to put that in an email to the court? Do I have to specify a reason that it should not be disclosed to claimant? Is there a specific court application form I should complete to withold my address from claimant?

Wow!

You're making it more difficult for me to communicate on my thread, so I can assure you you're not helping anybody

Actually japancool like many others on this thread is trying to be helpful.

To stand any chance of success you must issue a clear and factual defence, not try to obfuscate by saying I did not withhold rent and then state that the claim against you is for rent arrears. Concentrate on the fact of the claim for re4nt arrears. Why do you say you do not owe those arrears? (Forget the amiount for now).

 

[Chocolates1]

If anyone is able to answer my questions and / or draft my defence and counterclaim, that would be extremely helpful ?

 

[fisicx]

If anyone is able to answer my questions and / or draft my defence and counterclaim, that would be extremely helpful ?

Yes, a solicitor.

I’m a landlord. I know the law regarding rent. You are liable for payments.

 

[Chocolates1]

Yes, a solicitor.

I’m a landlord. I know the law regarding rent. You are liable for payments.

For the millionth time, I am unable to instruct a solicitor. Hence seeking urgent help on this forum.

I have also been a landlady myself. And I know the law regarding tenants rights and landlord/lady obligations. I can assure you I am not liable .

 

[fisicx]

For the millionth time, I am unable to instruct a solicitor. Hence seeking urgent help on this forum.

You aren't going to get the help you need. @smallclaimsassistance made it very clear you need specialist help preparing a defence.

What is the legal reason have for not paying the rent? What clause in the rent agreement are you using as argument against the claim? The judge will only consider the facts. And so far the only fact you have stated are you did not pay the rent until your last day of tenancy.

 

[Chocolates1]

You aren't going to get the help you need. @smallclaimsassistance made it very clear you need specialist help preparing a defence.

What is the legal reason have for not paying the rent? What clause in the rent agreement are you using as argument against the claim? The judge will only consider the facts. And so far the only fact you have stated are you did not pay the rent until your last day of tenancy.

In an ideal world, yes I agree about needing specialist help - Sadly that is unrealistic and impossible to achieve in this case.

I have provided ample additional information, which clearly you have not read properly, or at all, as you are asking questions already answered. And as for "facts" how rude. Everything I have stated is fact and I have ample evidence to support that.

Is there something you are not understanding?

 

[fisicx]

I have read everything. Most of your evidence is irrelevant to the claim. Harassment for example is not mitigation. Failure to repair and forced entry is not mitigation. These are all separate claims. If you owe rent you must pay. You are liable. The law is very clear on this.

 

[MOIC]

In an ideal world, yes I agree about needing specialist help - Sadly that is unrealistic and impossible to achieve in this case.

Any help or advice which is not 'specialist' or relevant to your specific case, will only confuse you further.

If you cannot afford legal help, don't fight the case as it may incur you in more costs.

 

[Chocolates1]

I have read everything. Most of your evidence is irrelevant to the claim. Harassment for example is not mitigation. Failure to repair and forced entry is not mitigation. These are all separate claims. If you owe rent you must pay. You are liable. The law is very clear on this.

You are wrong i'm afraid. The claimant should and could have mitigated her losses. The property was unihabitable. The tenancy agreement, including rent payments, is unenforceable. Seems I know the law better than you. They are not all separate claims.

Looks like i'll have to draft it myself then

 

[Chocolates1]

Any help or advice which is not 'specialist' or relevant to your specific case, will only confuse you further.

If you cannot afford legal help, don't fight the case as it may incur you in more costs.

It won't incur me more costs as I have nothing to lose and claimant wouldn't be able to recover a penny from me. I intend to claim £100,000 and secure the charge against her property

 

[MOIC]

There's more out, than in.