Help needed with BBL strike off.

[Mena]

Hello, I spoke to the very helpful Lisa on here (sometime back very helpful may I add)

However I have followed her advice to strike the company off just with the BBL remaining.

I got suspended from dissolution and emailed to ask whom it was is this the bank who have objected as it shows (DBT)

Is this the bank HSBC who have objected and is this normal?

This is the email I got back from CH:

Thank you for your email relating to the objection to strike off for the above company.
This objection was raised by the Department for Business and Trades (DBT) and is in relation to an outstanding Bounce Back Loan.

If you wish to report that you have been prevented from striking off but have paid off your bounce back loan – you should report this issue to your lender and ask your lender to update their systems. This will result in the objection being automatically withdrawn as the position is re-checked on a monthly basis.
If you have a more general query, please visit the relevant FAQ page on the British Business Bank’s website:
Kind regards,

Andrew Grant

Companies House |

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

Hi @Mena ,

I suspect it will have been @Lisa Thomas .

Thank you for sharing, I was under the impression that BBL lender objected directly, so interesting to learn that it is in fact DBT.

This subject has been covered often on this forum, and is now standard for objections to come through if there is an outstanding BBL. In short, your options are now to either sit back and wait for DBT to cease objecting (unsure how long that will take - I know of some directors who have been waiting over 2 years) or to explore liquidating your company. If Lisa has advised you in the past, I'm sure she could advise you now about liquidation when she sees this thread.

 

[Mena]

Hi @Mena ,

I suspect it will have been @Lisa Thomas .

Thank you for sharing, I was under the impression that BBL lender objected directly, so interesting to learn that it is in fact DBT.

This subject has been covered often on this forum, and is now standard for objections to come through if there is an outstanding BBL. In short, your options are now to either sit back and wait for DBT to cease objecting (unsure how long that will take - I know of some directors who have been waiting over 2 years) or to explore liquidating your company. If Lisa has advised you in the past, I'm sure she could advise you now about liquidation when she sees this thread.

Thanks who are the DBT? I thought it would show HSBC object.

I expected them to reject I just simply email company house to find out whom it was to who I expected.

The company has no money to liquidate sadly.

I’ve in formed HSBC some months ago so why do they reject when they can just get there money from government guarantee?

 

[WaveJumper]

Personally I would have thought it was the bank objecting, the government are not just going to hand the money over to the bank (I believe) until they are sure there is no prospect of getting the funds back. Happy to be put right by those with more knowledge on the subject than myself but as mentioned above process could take quite sometime. What did you use the BBL loan for.

 

[Mena]

Personally I would have thought it was the bank objecting, the government are not just going to hand the money over to the bank (I believe) until they are sure there is no prospect of getting the funds back. Happy to be put right by those with more knowledge on the subject than myself but as mentioned above process could take quite sometime. What did you use the BBL loan for.

I used it all to make a new product that sold some units but didn’t do the numbers we expected due to the market during/after Covid. We was established since 2012 sadly. Then the cost of living was the final nail in the coffin.

Every single penny was used to buy and manufacture my product in China.

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

Personally I would have thought it was the bank objecting, the government are not just going to hand the money over to the bank (I believe) until they are sure there is no prospect of getting the funds back. Happy to be put right by those with more knowledge on the subject than myself but as mentioned above process could take quite sometime. What did you use the BBL loan for.

That was my assumption, but it looks DBT are objecting on the banks behalf.

Thanks who are the DBT

Department for Business and Trade, a government department. As the government are the guarantor, I suppose it makes sense that they would be objecting on BBL lenders behalf.

 

[Mena]

That was my assumption, but it looks DBT are objecting on the banks behalf.

Department for Business and Trade, a government department. As the government are the guarantor, I suppose it makes sense that they would be objecting on BBL lenders behalf.

That does make sense now, it may have always been this way. Just nobody actually mentioned DBT.

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

I’ve in formed HSBC some months ago so why do they reject when they can just get there money from government guarantee?

Sadly the objection is standard practice, to give the BBL lender to fully ensure that options for the company to repay the loan has been explored.

From others I've advised, I believe it will go through eventually, but it may take a couple of years, unless there's some policy change on this.

You've got nothing to worry about though. You don't need to reapply to dissolve, and you may get the odd letter and phone call about the BBL. If paying for a liquidation is not possible, then it's now just a case of sitting back and waiting.

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

That does make sense now, it may have always been this way. Just nobody actually mentioned DBT.

Genuinely I've always thought the same, as I think most have on this forum. Thank you again for sharing as it's good to know.

 

[Mena]

Sadly the objection is standard practice, to give the BBL lender to fully ensure that options for the company to repay the loan has been explored.

From others I've advised, I believe it will go through eventually, but it may take a couple of years, unless there's some policy change on this.

You've got nothing to worry about though. You don't need to reapply to dissolve, and you may get the odd letter and phone call about the BBL. If paying for a liquidation is not possible, then it's now just a case of sitting back and waiting.

HSBC said to me before it’s a box ticking exercise they said they’re “in house debt collectors” will call after 6 months to eee if company any better. It seems they have to hit criteria etc

 

[Mena]

Genuinely I've always thought the same, as I think most have on this forum. Thank you again for sharing as it's good to know.

No problem at all, I wanted to make sure who it was objecting.

 

[WaveJumper]

That was my assumption, but it looks DBT are objecting on the banks behalf.

Department for Business and Trade, a government department. As the government are the guarantor, I suppose it makes sense that they would be objecting on BBL lenders behalf.

Yes interesting one to watch out for, I was aware Various UK authorities are now working together to recoup money perhaps they actually getting their collective acts together. Hopefully our OP will just have to wait it out but can't be good hanging in limbo

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

Hopefully our OP will just have to wait it out but can't be good hanging in limbo

Incredibly frustrating for people like OP. Especially when they've done nothing wrong and used the BBL funds for what they were intended for, but simply can't afford to go through a liquidation. But if the only debt is the BBL, then thankfully the odd letter and phone call is the worse to expect. Much more uncomfortable situation when there's other types of creditors at play.

 

[Mena]

Incredibly frustrating for people like OP. Especially when they've done nothing wrong and used the BBL funds for what they were intended for, but simply can't afford to go through a liquidation. But if the only debt is the BBL, then thankfully the odd letter and phone call is the worse to expect. Much more uncomfortable situation when there's other types of creditors at play.

We done everything correct and even borrowed the amount of 25% subject to the allowance of turnover.

 

[Bells25]

HSBC said to me before it’s a box ticking exercise they said they’re “in house debt collectors” will call after 6 months to eee if company any better. It seems they have to hit criteria etc

I was told this today but also told from HSBC that they will be taking legal proceedings and criminal offences did you inform hsbc you was striking off the business with the letter from HMRC too?

 

[Bells25]

Hello, I spoke to the very helpful Lisa on here (sometime back very helpful may I add)

However I have followed her advice to strike the company off just with the BBL remaining.

I got suspended from dissolution and emailed to ask whom it was is this the bank who have objected as it shows (DBT)

Is this the bank HSBC who have objected and is this normal?

This is the email I got back from CH:

Thank you for your email relating to the objection to strike off for the above company.
This objection was raised by the Department for Business and Trades (DBT) and is in relation to an outstanding Bounce Back Loan.

If you wish to report that you have been prevented from striking off but have paid off your bounce back loan – you should report this issue to your lender and ask your lender to update their systems. This will result in the objection being automatically withdrawn as the position is re-checked on a monthly basis.
If you have a more general query, please visit the relevant FAQ page on the British Business Bank’s website:
Kind regards,

Andrew Grant

Companies House |

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

DBT = Department of Business and Trade, i.e. government. As government guaranteed 100% of the BBL scheme, they appear to now be objecting to dissolution when the bank cease objecting.

 

[Newchodge]

I was told this today but also told from HSBC that they will be taking legal proceedings and criminal offences did you inform hsbc you was striking off the business with the letter from HMRC too?

Possibly your BBL application or use did not meet the legal requirements?

 

[Bells25]

Yes it did I used it correctly but I keep getting told if I want to close a limited company with a bbl they are taking legal action especially when I did everything right surely not

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

Hi all,

Just for clarity, it appears NO dissolutions (voluntary or compulsory) with outstanding BBLs are going through at the moment, regardless of whether the BBL was legitimately applied or how it was spent.

The legal action they refer to is objecting to dissolution. I suspect eventually DBT will either cease objecting or start winding up companies through the courts (aka compulsory liquidations). In either outcome how the BBL was applied for and how it was spent (and the director's conduct in general) will be looked at by the Insolvency Service.

In summary, companies that are facing closure by dissolution with and outstanding BBL are currently left in limbo, with no certainty as to what will happen to them or when.

Voluntary Liquidation is always an option, though sadly for many this is an unaffordable option.

 

[Newchodge]

Hi all,

Just for clarity, it appears NO dissolutions (voluntary or compulsory) with outstanding BBLs are going through at the moment, regardless of whether the BBL was legitimately applied or how it was spent.

The legal action they refer to is objecting to dissolution. I suspect eventually DBT will either cease objecting or start winding up companies through the courts (aka compulsory liquidations). In either outcome how the BBL was applied for and how it was spent (and the director's conduct in general) will be looked at by the Insolvency Service.

In summary, companies that are facing closure by dissolution with and outstanding BBL are currently left in limbo, with no certainty as to what will happen to them or when.

Voluntary Liquidation is always an option, though sadly for many this is an unaffordable option.

A bank suggesting criminal offences, as per @Bells25 is not within normal practice, though, is it?

 

[Bells25]

A bank suggesting criminal offences, as per @Bells25 is not within normal practice, though, is it?

I don’t know why they mentioned criminal offences either! Especially as I did use it the correct way for my business

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

I'd say it's creative use of language. An Insolvency Service investigation, now part of every dissolution (in particular for those with outstanding BBLs) looks for criminal conduct, e.g. fraudulent BBLs applications.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I'd say it's creative use of language. An Insolvency Service investigation, now part of every dissolution (in particular for those with outstanding BBLs) looks for criminal conduct, e.g. fraudulent BBLs applications.

They quite simple wont have enough staff to investigate these bad loans

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

They quite simple wont have enough staff to investigate these bad loans

Yup, I reckon the Insolvency Sevice are swamped, but I also suspect that's part of the reason why DBT have started objecting to dissolutions. I suspect they're trying to push directors to IPs, so that we can do the investigation and report our findings to the Insolvency Service.

The whole thing's cracked. A director who can evidence that they applied for the right amount of BBL, spent in the right way and the company has no funds to pay for liquidation should be allowed to strike off without being left in this forever limbo. There isn't much they can do to directors stuck in this limbo, but for some directors it's causing undue stress and worry.

 

[Callum97]

Yup, I reckon the Insolvency Sevice are swamped, but I also suspect that's part of the reason why DBT have started objecting to dissolutions. I suspect they're trying to push directors to IPs, so that we can do the investigation and report our findings to the Insolvency Service.

The whole thing's cracked. A director who can evidence that they applied for the right amount of BBL, spent in the right way and the company has no funds to pay for liquidation should be allowed to strike off without being left in this forever limbo. There isn't much they can do to directors stuck in this limbo, but for some directors it's causing undue stress and worry.

I am still waiting for my strike off to go through after being suspended:

I have email sent a recorded letter to HSBC informing them of the company situation.

I begged HSBC to wind up but they said they won’t, the funds were used correctly and turnover stated was correct; company got into terrible times and then companies house went for strike off. As the company no money left for strike off application, but I informed HSBC before in phone call way prior, I then sent letter to them recently coming up to 6 months in limbo. HSBC originally left notes on my account after informing them of the long term no affordability (HSBC technical term) I spoke to them at length prior to this.

Is it worth me sending an DS01 in just to try and speed it up and pay out of my own money the £10/ DS01?

Our office we used we removed all our signage and have the keys back to landlord so there is no physical company address with any assets etc.

Companies house said it’s perfectly normal but a headache through no fault of my own and someone who suffers from anxiety.

I feel like I’m being penalised; even though I did everything correctly and I was very strict / asking my accountant my turnover and working out the 25% allowance etc for our BBL and then used the funds for a brand new product, non was ever used for perpetual personal use under any circumstances.

 

[Newchodge]

I am still waiting for my strike off to go through after being suspended:

I have email sent a recorded letter to HSBC informing them of the company situation.

I begged HSBC to wind up but they said they won’t, the funds were used correctly and turnover stated was correct; company got into terrible times and then companies house went for strike off. As the company no money left for strike off application, but I informed HSBC before in phone call way prior, I then sent letter to them recently coming up to 6 months in limbo. HSBC originally left notes on my account after informing them of the long term no affordability (HSBC technical term) I spoke to them at length prior to this.

Is it worth me sending an DS01 in just to try and speed it up and pay out of my own money the £10/ DS01?

Why not just forget about it completely, move on and do what matters to you?

 

[Bells25]

I am still waiting for my strike off to go through after being suspended:

I have email sent a recorded letter to HSBC informing them of the company situation.

I begged HSBC to wind up but they said they won’t, the funds were used correctly and turnover stated was correct; company got into terrible times and then companies house went for strike off. As the company no money left for strike off application, but I informed HSBC before in phone call way prior, I then sent letter to them recently coming up to 6 months in limbo. HSBC originally left notes on my account after informing them of the long term no affordability (HSBC technical term) I spoke to them at length prior to this.

Is it worth me sending an DS01 in just to try and speed it up and pay out of my own money the £10/ DS01?

Our office we used we removed all our signage and have the keys back to landlord so there is no physical company address with any assets etc.

Companies house said it’s perfectly normal but a headache through no fault of my own and someone who suffers from anxiety.

I feel like I’m being penalised; even though I did everything correctly and I was very strict / asking my accountant my turnover and working out the 25% allowance etc for our BBL and then used the funds for a brand new product, non was ever used for perpetual personal use under any circumstances.

Same boat as you, it’s really unfair when you have done everything correctly and they won’t just allow the company to close. I spoke to HSBC today and they were really supportive and calmed my nerves much more than the last HSBC representative I had contacted. They basically said as my company is a limited company we are basically in limbo until they eventually allow it to be striked off, although they said naturally everyone that still has an active balance on the account will get an objection. I really wouldn’t worry as I was in a panic for months but eventually it will get striked off.. Do you know the email or address you sent your letter too?

 

[Callum97]

Why not just forget about it completely, move on and do what matters to you?

To close the chapter

Same boat as you, it’s really unfair when you have done everything correctly and they won’t just allow the company to close. I spoke to HSBC today and they were really supportive and calmed my nerves much more than the last HSBC representative I had contacted. They basically said as my company is a limited company we are basically in limbo until they eventually allow it to be striked off, although they said naturally everyone that still has an active balance on the account will get an objection. I really wouldn’t worry as I was in a panic for months but eventually it will get striked off.. Do you know the email or address you sent your letter too?

I sent it special next day recorded to there Birmingham head office. Kept copy of receipt on my phone.

It’s extraordinary frustrating.

 

[Callum97]

Why not just forget about it completely, move on and do what matters to you?

It’s exhausting them keeping company open for no reason

 

[japancool]

Is it worth me sending an DS01 in just to try and speed it up and pay out of my own money the £10/ DS01?

Wait, you haven't submitted DS01? If you haven't, who applied to strike off the company?

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

Wait, you haven't submitted DS01? If you haven't, who applied to strike off the company?

Because there's no need I'm afraid.

Poster has advised that a dissolution has already been suspended, so I assume that the company is already facing dissolution for non filing of accounts. No need to file a DS01, as the process has already begun.

Why not just forget about it completely, move on and do what matters to you?

This is the best advice as it stands. BBL lenders and DBT are categorically not letting companies be dissolved, and will not take action to wind them up. Without privately paying for liquidation, the only option is to sit back and wait. If there are other creditors, you can encourage those creditors to take winding up action, otherwise the companies are left in limbo.

This may change in the future, but for now there is no indication of when or if there will be any change to this.

 

[Callum97]

Because there's no need I'm afraid.

Poster has advised that a dissolution has already been suspended, so I assume that the company is already facing dissolution for non filing of accounts. No need to file a DS01, as the process has already begun.



This is the best advice as it stands. BBL lenders and DBT are categorically not letting companies be dissolved, and will not take action to wind them up. Without privately paying for liquidation, the only option is to sit back and wait. If there are other creditors, you can encourage those creditors to take winding up action, otherwise the companies are left in limbo.

This may change in the future, but for now there is no indication of when or if there will be any change to this.

Hi Chris, just very annoying: I remember having in-depth conversations with HSBC who I informed well before of my intentions and it’s been noted and documented with them as a no long term affordability. What means no chance of getting payment.

We initially established our company in 2012 - we done everything possible to try and keep our company going including putting money into our BA.

The bank initially said objections would be lodged after 12 months they put in there guarantee? Then company strikes off? Im approx 6 months into it so far I just wish someone would look at our accounts and see all what we did with BBL we done well above board.

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

It seems unclear as to when a lender is able to claim back on the government guarantee scheme, however even if the bank cease objecting, Department of Business of Trade start objecting.

 

[Lisa Thomas]

The Bank's process is laid out on pages 45/46 here: chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.nao.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/The-Bounce-Back-Loan-Scheme-an-update.pdf

 

[CAL2003]

My company has now missed 3 payments and HSBC have been writing to me regards this and about them starting the default process etc. I've written to them stating the financial position but have not heard anything back from them (or any 3rd party debt recovery firms). I've not submitted a DS01 as yet.

I see there have been some potentially significant developments in the last couple of days, with 1) apparently the British Business Bank withdrawing a large number of guarantees from the lender banks 2) some lenders now actively seeking to get companies wound up so they can personally pursue any directors guilty of BBL misdeeds.

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

My company has now missed 3 payments and HSBC have been writing to me regards this and about them starting the default process etc. I've written to them stating the financial position but have not heard anything back from them (or any 3rd party debt recovery firms). I've not submitted a DS01 as yet.

I see there have been some potentially significant developments in the last couple of days, with 1) apparently the British Business Bank withdrawing a large number of guarantees from the lender banks 2) some lenders now actively seeking to get companies wound up so they can personally pursue any directors guilty of BBL misdeeds.

I appear to have missed these recent developments. I don't suppose you could point me in the direction of any articles you've seen mentioning these changes?

 

[Callum97]

Fyi just an update had an cal from HSBC who were absolutely lovely they tried to get me into a payment plan when I told them the company closed down and hasn’t done any trading and since informing HSBC of this prior to actioning anything - they simply said they will catch up in May 2024 and the claim the ones back from government, they was impressed that I researched every aspect of doing it correctly and even applauded myself and accepted the “long term no affordability” HSBC said I done everything more then correct and checked turnover claimed was correct and all money was sent to China for product so a massive tick on it being closed next year.

So it seems HSBC, have pre-qualified it after I had all notes from early 2023 thanks To @Lisa Thomas whos been fantastic in helping me direction after a brief call.

 

[CAL2003]

Yes sure, I've just seen it on the mrbounceback.com website. It was posted there yesterday.

 

[CAL2003]

Fyi just an update had an cal from HSBC who were absolutely lovely they tried to get me into a payment plan when I told them the company closed down and hasn’t done any trading and since informing HSBC of this prior to actioning anything - they simply said they will catch up in May 2024 and the claim the ones back from government, they was impressed that I researched every aspect of doing it correctly and even applauded myself and accepted the “long term no affordability” HSBC said I done everything more then correct and checked turnover claimed was correct and all money was sent to China for product so a massive tick on it being closed next year.

That's good to hear. We hear about all the dodgy director cases where they just saw the BBL as free 'hit & run' money, but there must be so many businesses that properly qualified for the loans & have genuinely tried to bounce back but just not been able to.