General Product Safety Regulations? Wow!

[paulears]

I just got a notification from Ebay about sales to the EU and NI, that come into force in November.

I import items from China - radios and microphones in general - but I sell quite a few to Northern Ireland. My reading of the new rules is that practically all comply with the rules, bar a few. What worries me is there has to be a responsible person in country. Clearly there isn't.
It says.

The EU or NI-based Responsible Person is in charge of specific tasks related to compliance and product safety, including:

• Checking that the EU declaration of conformity, CE marking, and other technical documentations are in order, and providing them to the market surveillance authorities to demonstrate the conformity of the product
• Informing the market surveillance authorities about dangerous products and accidents through the EU Safety Business Gateway
• Cooperating with the market surveillance authorities and ensuring the necessary actions are taken to rectify any non-compliance issues
• Providing documented evidence of the checks that were performed, if requested by the authorities

It will make foreign sales and Northern Ireland customers unsupportable.

 

[fisicx]

Not just eBay, Amazon as well:

AMAZON - EU Responsible Person Requirements from August 18th.

The following is from Amazon for sellers selling into the EU, which i'm sure many of you will be aware of. By August 18, 2024, you must provide the name and contact details of the Responsible Person for most batteries offered for sale in the EU and Northern Ireland to comply with the EU...

www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk

 

[paulears]

Probably won't have much impact on me, but it makes NI far more tricky to supply to for everyone. They have to follow EU rules which we don't!

 

[IanSuth]

That was the reason the DUP were going nuts about the brexit deal/windsor framework

It is the result of Johnson wanting us to not have to stay aligned to EU regs - if there is no border Ireland/NI and no presumption that we will align with EU rules (or rather no ability of an EU court to say "that is not the same") then NI has to follow EU rules with the customers/regs border in the Irish Sea.

I actually foresee we will sign some memorandum of understanding pre November stating that we are currently aligned with the EU and unless we change any or our regs or fail to match changes in EU regs then there is no need for the new checks

The other alternative a "no deal" Brexit would have been no better for dealing with the EU but would have meant a defacto border between Ireland / NI as the EU would have had to treat it the same as the border between Poland and Belarus or more accurately Bulgaria/Turkey (as there are several special deals between EU/Turkey like between UK/EU)

 

[romeo b]

following this closely. i know Amazon have their own messages and eBay seem to be informing people [sellers] too. but curious how people will navigate it. surely the marketplaces will have to step in and help here and rapidly too, much like the IOSS number fiasco, otherwise they stand to lose millions in UK-EU trade surely. unless something like the postal operators (ie Royal Mail) will facilitate it somehow through their shipping services, eg Click & Drop.

this stands to stop most people (small sellers, or low cost items) from sending stuff from UK to EU completely. how will Etsy etc handle this? heard absolutely nothing off Etsy at the moment.

i noticed on listings now, we can edit them with the Disclosures, and this allows you to specify certain things - i imagine all these will be mandatory soon, and anything not completed will be delisted, which is a huge worry. (link to Disclosures screenshot - https://imgur.com/a/gDvDRB7 - clicky). The EU bit asks for an EU address.

how will custom orders work? that's another issue, one off things produced to order and facilitating sending those.

such a headache and such a worry.

 

[paulears]

The thing I don't quite get is that it's for safety. If I sell a microphone, would safety be the likelehood of knocking a tooth out, or something like electrocution? Clearly if the thing was connected to a faulty device, like a mixer, or interface - it would be possible for the mic to hurt somebody - but the mic has no dangerous components? I'd be very comfy guaranteeing a mic was safe - but for a product with £20-40 margin? No way I could contemplate doing it?

 

[romeo b]

I can't even really grasp how it will work

Let's assume you have an RP somewhere - do you just submit info for your item (which info?) to some EU RP and they add it to a catalogue of stuff? They aren't physically asking for one of each item to test it surely? Anyone know what sort of info they ask for?

What about stuff like small value stickers or posters, or little one off custom orders (under say £60)? Surely the cost of all this is going to outweigh the income from the items if they are a small enough portion of your market (yet, enough to matter)? I notice a lot of people talking about vintage/collectibles but this extends to everything else as well, and not just Northern Ireland. EG a small UK biz selling a <£30 item to France, or Spain, etc, as an example. It sounds crippling.

Do we think the Marketplaces are going to step up and become the RP or something? Surely they are going to have to have a real think about that before millions of businesses simply stop trading with EU due to the red tape?

It seems catastrophic for anyone who trades with EU.

It's like the whole IOSS worry all over again, and that turned out to be a relatively easy obstacle once marketplaces let you use their IOSS and shipping services (Royal Mail etc) have services which are IOSS supported.

Please somebody provide some happy/more positive news before I implode.

 

[IanSuth]

The thing I don't quite get is that it's for safety. If I sell a microphone, would safety be the likelehood of knocking a tooth out, or something like electrocution? Clearly if the thing was connected to a faulty device, like a mixer, or interface - it would be possible for the mic to hurt somebody - but the mic has no dangerous components? I'd be very comfy guaranteeing a mic was safe - but for a product with £20-40 margin? No way I could contemplate doing it?

It is safety in the widest sense - "if it is made for EU rules we know the risks, if the UK refuses to abide by those rules, or at least say it will match them, then we don't know the risk without individual (expensive) assessment"

That is why i think we (the UK) will at some point very soon announce we have signed a binding memorandum to match EU standards for a fixed period of time and the EU will state all these rules are therefore on hold whilst that matching is in force

 

[Kixoponev]

The new rules from eBay about sales to the EU and Northern Ireland are about making sure products are safe and compliant with local regulations. The "Responsible Person" is someone in the EU or NI who ensures products meet safety standards and can handle issues if they come up.

For items like microphones, safety concerns could include things like electrical safety, not just physical harm. Even if your mics are safe, the rules require someone local to vouch for that and deal with any problems.

With the small margins on your products, it might not be worth the hassle and cost to comply. Just rethink selling to these areas if you can't manage the new requirements

 

[IanSuth]

The new rules from eBay about sales to the EU and Northern Ireland are about making sure products are safe and compliant with local regulations. The "Responsible Person" is someone in the EU or NI who ensures products meet safety standards and can handle issues if they come up.

For items like microphones, safety concerns could include things like electrical safety, not just physical harm. Even if your mics are safe, the rules require someone local to vouch for that and deal with any problems.

With the small margins on your products, it might not be worth the hassle and cost to comply. Just rethink selling to these areas if you can't manage the new requirements

Is this written by AI ? because if not you sure have a very AI way of writing

 

[paulears]

The new rules from eBay about sales to the EU and Northern Ireland are about making sure products are safe and compliant with local regulations. The "Responsible Person" is someone in the EU or NI who ensures products meet safety standards and can handle issues if they come up.

For items like microphones, safety concerns could include things like electrical safety, not just physical harm. Even if your mics are safe, the rules require someone local to vouch for that and deal with any problems.

With the small margins on your products, it might not be worth the hassle and cost to comply. Just rethink selling to these areas if you can't manage the new requirements

That's what I will do, but that means that nobody in NI would be able to buy products their neighbours can? It will apply to virtually everything that is cheap. Want to buy any product for a few quid, and you won't be able to. It will put prices up. People sourcing smaller quantities can't get them. Look at all the tat you buy on amazon - phone chargers, earphones, that kind of stuff. Models with a lifetime of production of maybe a few big batches - but supplied by hundreds of suppiers.

 

[romeo b]

I found this on twitter which I am trying to decipher; does this allude to the UK aligning with EU laws and meaning we can continue as normal, hopefully, if this all passes and gets amended?

x.com

x.com

See the comments - couple of bits:

• Current law recognises existing EU product regulations (including the CE marking) for a range of products in GB. However, the EU is undertaking a range of updates and reforms to their regulations (for instance to improve safety or respond to technological developments) over the next few years, which the UK does not have sufficient powers to respond to.

.. and from a secondary website:

“It would appear that the Government is leaving the door open to future alignment with aspects of the EU regulatory framework, where beneficial to the UK. This would have obvious potential application to the EU's new General Product Safety Regulation, effective from 13 December 2024, which puts new obligations on manufacturers in respect of new technologies and modern supply chains, including online marketplaces.

The Bill also appears to align with the UK's Product Safety and Metrology etc (Amendment) Regulations 2024 (the "2024 Regulations"), due to come into force on 1 October 2024. The 2024 Regulations aim to provide businesses with flexibility to continue placing goods that meet EU requirements, such as CE marking, on the GB market.”

 

[IanSuth]

I found this on twitter which I am trying to decipher; does this allude to the UK aligning with EU laws and meaning we can continue as normal, hopefully, if this all passes and gets amended?

x.com

x.com

See the comments - couple of bits:

• Current law recognises existing EU product regulations (including the CE marking) for a range of products in GB. However, the EU is undertaking a range of updates and reforms to their regulations (for instance to improve safety or respond to technological developments) over the next few years, which the UK does not have sufficient powers to respond to.

.. and from a secondary website:

“It would appear that the Government is leaving the door open to future alignment with aspects of the EU regulatory framework, where beneficial to the UK. This would have obvious potential application to the EU's new General Product Safety Regulation, effective from 13 December 2024, which puts new obligations on manufacturers in respect of new technologies and modern supply chains, including online marketplaces.

The Bill also appears to align with the UK's Product Safety and Metrology etc (Amendment) Regulations 2024 (the "2024 Regulations"), due to come into force on 1 October 2024. The 2024 Regulations aim to provide businesses with flexibility to continue placing goods that meet EU requirements, such as CE marking, on the GB market.”

In English it means what i said before

Currently everything we do meets EU regs as whilst we shouted about sovereignty and cutting red tape we haven't changed anything.

However when the EU changes it's regs we will no longer be in line with them - and as we have refused anything to do with the European Court who rule on trade issues, even if we change our rules to match we won't have a means of proving they match so individual exporters will have to do it on a case by case basis.

Alternatively we sign a memorandum of understanding saying we do and will align with EU regs and allow the EU to adjudicate if our rules really are matched and if so we carry on as before (this is what i suspect will happen)

 

[IanSuth]

Seems i am not alone in my thoughts - this article today by the Spectator sums it up

Keir Starmer’s plans to soften Brexit

Anew political bromance is brewing on the continent. Keir Starmer has met Olaf Scholz, his German counterpart, three times since he entered Downing Street last month. Already the two men have found plenty in common. Both are social democrats, both are lawyers from similar backgrounds and both...

www.spectator.co.uk

The first step is likely to be a deal to harmonise veterinary standards – which studies suggest could boost food exports to the continent by a fifth. The Commission is open to the idea on the conditions that the UK takes their rules and accepts the jurisdiction of the EU’s own court, the European Court of Justice, on any disputes. This could then act as a blue print for more industry specific deals. Not so long ago, ‘no to the ECJ’ was a Brexiteer mantra. That’s about to change.

 

[Newchodge]

Brexit, eh? Those sunlit uplands that just keep on giving.

In a sane world the problem with the NI/Ireland border would have been acknowledged, considered and solutions proposed BEFORE he eferendum, instead of those of us who raised it as a problem being ridiculed and the issue being pooh-poohed.

 

[paulears]

Brexit, eh? Those sunlit uplands that just keep on giving.

In a sane world the problem with the NI/Ireland border would have been acknowledged, considered and solutions proposed BEFORE he eferendum, instead of those of us who raised it as a problem being ridiculed and the issue being pooh-poohed.

but if we were still in the EU, then ALL of the UK would be facing these silly ineffective rules, not just NI?

 

[Newchodge]

but if we were still in the EU, then ALL of the UK would be facing these silly ineffective rules, not just NI?

No, becasue we would all be in the same market. Thiose rules are for third party countries importing into the EU.

 

[romeo b]

is there any place / way to follow the actual discussion and outcome of this regulation and the stuff above which was being discussed officially by government?

seems like such a massive thing with very little in the way of a solution and no real talk about it anywhere

 

[Newchodge]

is there any place / way to follow the actual discussion and outcome of this regulation and the stuff above which was being discussed officially by government?

seems like such a massive thing with very little in the way of a solution and no real talk about it anywhere

I don't think there is any discussion. It is a natural result of the UK leaving the EU and the agreement that there cannot be interference of free movement between Northern Ireland and Ireland.

 

[romeo b]

I don't think there is any discussion. It is a natural result of the UK leaving the EU and the agreement that there cannot be interference of free movement between Northern Ireland and Ireland.

they will have to do something, everyone can't just stop selling to Europe/NI overnight from the UK. It's just unimaginable for trade.

 

[paulears]

In reality, it's also going to impact on people in EU countries selling imported items. So much cheap tat comes in apart from the more quality item. I do lots of pantomimes, and the theatres for instance, stock up on the merchandising stuff for the kids - dirt cheap, but will need an agent in country to guarantee safety? This just won't work? How could anyone even think of this? Order goods, goods arrive november, goods sold by january. Thousands of them.

Same thing on ebay - zillions of imported items, that will need safety guarantees. Nobody could manage CE markings on this kind of kit, so adding people into the mix is unworkable.

 

[DontAsk]

In reality, it's also going to impact on people in EU countries selling imported items.

That's different and they, as importers, have always been responsible, just as UK operators were responsible for imports into the EU pre-brexit.

 

[paulears]

I’m not sure on that? It’s an EU requirement so these in country people have to exist, but for somebody in say the Irish Republic, the cost for everyday sales of cheaper goods could be very expensive?

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

As NI is in the UK, surely this shouldn't be legal to impose? Ebay/Amazon are adding a barrier to UK sellers to sell to their own country by imposing non UK requirements.

Or is this a result of taking back control?

 

[Newchodge]

As NI is in the UK, surely this shouldn't be legal to impose? Ebay/Amazon are adding a barrier to UK sellers to sell to their own country by imposing non UK requirements.

Or is this a result of taking back control?

It is a result of the primary need not to have a border on the island of Ireland. So N Ireland has a special status being, as far as trade is concerned, treated as if it is in the EU. So sending stuff to N Ireland is the same as sending it to anywhere in the EU and these rules were agreed as part of the negotiatons. I have simplified this a bit.

It is not Ebay/Amazon requirments, it is a requirement of doing business with N Ireland.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Oh well, at least we have a old fashioned UK passports back (although a different colour, printed by a French company in Poland)!

 

[romeo b]

EBay have updated their GPSR page and something now says:

However, according to Article 51 of the GPSR, products that were first supplied to the EU market before December 13, 2024, and comply with the General Product Safety Directive (2001/95/EG), can continue to be sold without adding GPSR-required information in listings. This applies even if the manufacturer has gone out of business. For example, if you're selling a compliant product that was made available in the EU before the specified date, you don't need to include GPSR-related information, such as the manufacturer's details, in your listing. You may still have informational obligations under other regulations.

I assume this is good news for people selling stuff on there which are existing products as they’ll fall under the pre-Dec2024 deadline, meaning no RP required, and as long as you add safety stuff to listings it must comply - is that correct what I am reading?

 

[Newchodge]

Items that were first supplied in the next 4 months?

 

[romeo b]

Items that were first supplied in the next 4 months?

Eh? Not sure I understand you there? Before December this year I read that as. So anything already for sale, basically, right now and pre existing products, will be fine. If you list something new after December, it’ll likely need an RP - I assume. If you continue to sell the same stuff over and over, now and after Dec, it’ll be ok. So for a lot of people who sell the same items (say an inventory of 200 items) it’ll be ok as they’re all available to EU now prior to the deadline.

 

[euify.eu]

EBay have updated their GPSR page and something now says:



I assume this is good news for people selling stuff on there which are existing products as they’ll fall under the pre-Dec2024 deadline, meaning no RP required, and as long as you add safety stuff to listings it must comply - is that correct what I am reading?

Unfortunately, this only applies to EU member states.

 

[romeo b]

Unfortunately, this only applies to EU member states.

It states:

“However, Article 51 of the GPSR states that EU nations shouldn’t ‘impede’ the sale of any product that was first supplied for distribution, consumption, or use on the EU market before 13 December 2024, provided that product is covered by and complies with the General Product Safety Directive (2001/95/EG). Like many new laws, the GPSR is subject to varying interpretations. To our understanding, Article 51 can mean that you don’t need to add the additional information required by the GPSR to listings for consumer products sold in the EU or Northern Ireland before 13 December 2024, and that are covered by and fully comply with the General Product Safety Directive.

For example, if you're selling an item that complies with the Directive and was placed on the EU or Northern Ireland market before 13 December 2024, and the manufacturer is out of business, you won’t need to provide GPSR-related information in the listing (for example, manufacturer information).”

Doesn’t that meant as the items are already available on the EU market for purchase they aren’t required to add the RP?

 

[paulears]

Article 51 I thought was a hope but the supplied by date seems to relate to second hand items supplied previously being resold. My first reading I took it as supplied to the market so any models previously sold would be ok but not models introduced after? Who knows?

 

[romeo b]

Article 51 I thought was a hope but the supplied by date seems to relate to second hand items supplied previously being resold. My first reading I took it as supplied to the market so any models previously sold would be ok but not models introduced after? Who knows?

I’ve not seen it say second hand? I’m referring to other stuff anyway, like - eg - car parts, emblems, badges, stickers, small stuff… and stuff that’s new - not used .. it’s all so vague it would seem impossible to police. eBay doesn’t state about used / second hand stuff

 

[romeo b]

Also. This had a bit of insight;

EBay - forum post - clicky

 

[euify.eu]

It states:

“However, Article 51 of the GPSR states that EU nations shouldn’t ‘impede’ the sale of any product that was first supplied for distribution, consumption, or use on the EU market before 13 December 2024, provided that product is covered by and complies with the General Product Safety Directive (2001/95/EG). Like many new laws, the GPSR is subject to varying interpretations. To our understanding, Article 51 can mean that you don’t need to add the additional information required by the GPSR to listings for consumer products sold in the EU or Northern Ireland before 13 December 2024, and that are covered by and fully comply with the General Product Safety Directive.

For example, if you're selling an item that complies with the Directive and was placed on the EU or Northern Ireland market before 13 December 2024, and the manufacturer is out of business, you won’t need to provide GPSR-related information in the listing (for example, manufacturer information).”

Doesn’t that meant as the items are already available on the EU market for purchase they aren’t required to add the RP?

This is exact text of Article 51;
Member States shall not impede the making available on the market of products covered by Directive 2001/95/EC which are in conformity with that Directive and which were placed on the market before 13 December 2024.

I agree, lots of interpretations. "placed on the market before 13th December". Seems clear to us, but hey! If the goods comply with GPSD and have already been placed on the (EU) market before the 13th, it's good and shouldn't be impeded.

"Doesn’t that meant as the items are already available on the EU market for purchase they aren’t required to add the RP?" I would say this statement is correct, but only if there was no future intent to place or supply any new (or same) products on the EU market after the 13th.

 

[romeo b]

This is exact text of Article 51;
Member States shall not impede the making available on the market of products covered by Directive 2001/95/EC which are in conformity with that Directive and which were placed on the market before 13 December 2024.

I agree, lots of interpretations. "placed on the market before 13th December". Seems clear to us, but hey! If the goods comply with GPSD and have already been placed on the (EU) market before the 13th, it's good and shouldn't be impeded.

"Doesn’t that meant as the items are already available on the EU market for purchase they aren’t required to add the RP?" I would say this statement is correct, but only if there was no future intent to place or supply any new (or same) products on the EU market after the 13th.

Yeah, that’s how I am seeing / understanding it so far.

So, stuff we sell now from UK to all countries (EU, worldwide) we can continue to do so. But new products won’t be possible. However, I am sure there will be loopholes to this - eg, we sell a lot of custom emblems and personalised one-off badges for vehicles and crafts. The size, components, ingredients and everything consumable related remains identical from one to another. Could this be considered a matching product? This is where it gets complicated.

If we have 10,000 of the same item, old individually or in bulk, we should be able to sell this item endlessly as it was available in its identical form prior to December deadline.