Friend Drove Car Without Permission

[T4YLR]

Hi All!
Basically im gunna get straight to the point, I was in an empty car park late at night with a few friends. There was a shopping trolley in the middle of the car park so doing my good deed I put it back, Then for some reason one of my friends (no licence no insurance) got in my car (I left the keys in as I had music playing while we were talking) started it up and drove it about 5 meters along (He thought it was funny). I did rush back over and try to stop him but I couldn't stop a 1 ton car. I'm just wondering if I would get into trouble for this (it would be on cctv) as im currently resolving a different issue (I got a warning for something I didn't do) and might use cctv as reference

 

[Mark T Jones]

I think I'm missing a bit here. What do you think you might be in trouble for?

 

[intheTRADE]

Expect a 6am wake up call from armed response using the big red key to come through you front door resulting in your arrest and remanded in custody until your trial date at court is set

 

[T4YLR]

I think I'm missing a bit here. What do you think you might be in trouble for?

well let me go into a bit more detail. I did he was just sitting inside as it was around 2 degrees celsius outside and just warming up but I ran over anyways to make sure he didnt just drive off. I then got next to the car and held onto the car via the door (window was open) just incase he drove off and low and behold he dropped the clutch and off he went, he then stopped about 5 meters over but you will clearly see on cctv I didn't want him to drive and he nearly took me with him. The issue im resolving is about 15 minutes after MANY police turned up and stopped me and my friend (he was in another car next to me) they questioned us on what we were doing and I was given a section 59 warning for a year for doing 'stunts' with the shopping trolley and being anti social. We weren't loud and as for stunts I jumped and balanced on the handle of the shopping trolley and I guess you could say 'rode' the trolley when I was putting it back (which you see kids do in supermarkets all the time) no damaged to the trolley and no one else was in the car park other than us (its a massive car park) so no one heard us either. My other friend in the other car got nothing and the only thing different I did was putting the trolley away we both had music on and my idiot friend decided to have a quick go of my car without my permission ;(. The only reason im not happy is that the section 59 warning is linked to me and my car and if I do anything wrong (not like im going to) my pride and joy sports car which I saved my ass off for will be seized even thought I committed no motoring offence at all. I just dont want to use CCTV footage (which shows I did nothing wrong to get a section 59 warning) to show up my friend driving my car a little bit forward without a licence or insurance even thought I tried to stop him and I didnt give him permission

 

[Mark T Jones]

I'm still pretty list but, in a nutshell, your friend is technically guilty of taking your car without permission and driving without a licence (technically without insurance)

You aren't guilty if anything

 

[simon field]

Hide any weed that might be in the house, quick!

 

[Newchodge]

The issue im resolving is about 15 minutes after MANY police turned up and stopped me and my friend (he was in another car next to me) they questioned us on what we were doing and I was given a section 59 warning for a year for doing 'stunts' with the shopping trolley and being anti social

You WERE doing stunts with the shopping trolley and being anti social so what's your beef?

 

[MBE2017]

OP, your car now has been marked, and it might not necessarily disappear after 12 months. Expect to be pulled quite regular in the future, unfortunately there is no appeal and these are issued by the Police based on their belief of something happening, no proof necessary.

Personally I would sell the car ASAP and change motor.

 

[Mark T Jones]

OP, your car now has been marked, and it might not necessarily disappear after 12 months. Expect to be pulled quite regular in the future, unfortunately there is no appeal and these are issued by the Police based on their belief of something happening, no proof necessary.

Personally I would sell the car ASAP and change motor.

@Gordon - Commercial Finance can do you a bright orange RS.

that will be under the radar

 

[Nico Albrecht]

You aren't guilty if anything

Well he left the keys in the car and in the ignition while walking around. There is definitely a partial fault if it would go to court and car insurances would make a big deal for leaving keys in a car too.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Well he left the keys in the car and in the ignition while walking around. There is definitely a partial fault if it would go to court and car insurances would make a big deal for leaving keys in a car too.

It's not an insurance claim so not relevant

 

[japancool]

he only reason im not happy is that the section 59 warning is linked to me and my car and if I do anything wrong (not like im going to) my pride and joy sports car which I saved my ass off for will be seized even thought I committed no motoring offence at all.

Don't drive the car for a year, and don't hang around empty carparks at night.

 

[smallclaimsassistance]

The issue im resolving is about 15 minutes after MANY police turned up and stopped me and my friend (he was in another car next to me) they questioned us on what we were doing and I was given a section 59 warning for a year for doing 'stunts' with the shopping trolley and being anti social.

There’s a lot missing here.

This is a retail car park. You said you had put the trolley away, then gone back to the car. So you’re ready to go.

We need to know what you were doing in the car park throughout the 15 minutes after that, until the police arrived.

Fill in the gaps and we’ll answer your question.

Dean

 

[T4YLR]

There’s a lot missing here.

This is a retail car park. You said you had put the trolley away, then gone back to the car. So you’re ready to go.

We need to know what you were doing in the car park throughout the 15 minutes after that, until the police arrived.

Fill in the gaps and we’ll answer your question.

Dean

From putting the trolley away and leaving we did nothing, we just sat in the cars and talked my problem is he's giving me a section 59 against my motor for something I did with a trolley which isn't even illegal, if I got a section 59 for it I now expect every kid which I see all the time do it in supermarkets to get them too not being butt hurt but its just I feel like he gave me one just because he can plus my friend didn't even get one

 

[T4YLR]

Well he left the keys in the car and in the ignition while walking around. There is definitely a partial fault if it would go to court and car insurances would make a big deal for leaving keys in a car too.

it was just so I could keep music on

 

[Opinion87]

it was just so I could keep music on

How many of you were sitting in cars in this car park?

 

[T4YLR]

OP, your car now has been marked, and it might not necessarily disappear after 12 months. Expect to be pulled quite regular in the future, unfortunately there is no appeal and these are issued by the Police based on their belief of something happening, no proof necessary.

Personally I would sell the car ASAP and change motor.

I couldn't sell my car, it is a sports car which I saved my ass off for mid last year, a bit of me feels like he may of gave me a section 59 for an 18 year old driving it

 

[T4YLR]

How many of you were sitting in cars in this car park?

there was 5 of us, 3 in my car and 2 in my friends car

 

[T4YLR]

You WERE doing stunts with the shopping trolley and being anti social so what's your beef?

doing 'stunts' (which I only kind of glided with it from the handle which you see kids do in supermarkets all the time) isn't illegal last time I checked and we weren't being anti social at all there was no one else in the car park, we were causing anything just chilling having a good time with music on not too loud but my beef is he's gave me it for my car even thought I wasn't even driving so if for some reason I get one again, there goes my car for doing 'stunts' with a trolley it just doesn't make sense

 

[MBE2017]

I couldn't sell my car, it is a sports car which I saved my ass off for mid last year, a bit of me feels like he may of gave me a section 59 for an 18 year old driving it

Your choice, your risk. Your car is going to ping every Copper looking at your car, so stay out of trouble and drive sensibly. Unfortunately it all hinges on a Policeman’s opinion, and I wouldn’t trust their opinion 99% of the time.

 

[T4YLR]

Your choice, your risk. Your car is going to ping every Copper looking at your car, so stay out of trouble and drive sensibly. Unfortunately it all hinges on a Policeman’s opinion, and I wouldn’t trust their opinion 99% of the time.

I guess I was just at the wrong place at the wrong time. Also I was served with no notice he just took my name and reg and I've had nothing through the post as of yet. Whats the worst that could happen if I get pulled over again

 

[MBE2017]

They can seize your car and you have to pay to get it back, normally something like £150 per day.

 

[Mark T Jones]

doing 'stunts' (which I only kind of glided with it from the handle which you see kids do in supermarkets all the time) isn't illegal last time I checked and we weren't being anti social at all there was no one else in the car park, we were causing anything just chilling having a good time with music on not too loud but my beef is he's gave me it for my car even thought I wasn't even driving so if for some reason I get one again, there goes my car for doing 'stunts' with a trolley it just doesn't make sense

The fact of the matter is that as a group you managed to upset someone - or a few people.

You have absolutely no need to tell us what actually happened (perhaps it is as you say) because it won't change anything.

Just keep your head down, try not to pi55 people off, and perhaps be more selective in your friends

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

From putting the trolley away and leaving we did nothing, we just sat in the cars and talked my problem is he's giving me a section 59 against my motor for something I did with a trolley which isn't even illegal, if I got a section 59 for it I now expect every kid which I see all the time do it in supermarkets to get them too not being butt hurt but its just I feel like he gave me one just because he can plus my friend didn't even get one

You'll have been given the section 59 for not having control of your vehicle, nowt to do with the trolley.

If it was a dog or infant in the car that accidentally knocked it into gear and ran over half a dozen people would you still say it wasn't your fault?

 

[BustersDogs]

Wait, I'm getting flashbacks .... I survived, my friends survived, my relations survived, you will survive. Of course if your friend keeps driving without licence and insurance and gets caught often enough, there may one day be a judge who says 'this guy is not getting it, he's been here umpty times before, give him a few weeks behind bars'.

oh, just edited to say, shenanigans that we got up to 30 years ago may well have led to the current laws to seize cars if owners/drivers are not getting in, instead of the few weeks behind bars. So kind of, I'm sorry about that.

Wasn't me behind bars btw.

 

[Ozzy]

Wait, I'm getting flashbacks .... I survived, my friends survived

I was reading this post about to post something similar ?. It was the "Queensway Hall" car park in Dunstable in my time, which is now a supermarket. I actually think the police used to not mind us all hanging around there as at least they knew where we were, there used to be around 30 cars doing donuts and stuff.
Basically, as said early, it's done and just keep your head down and carry on being young. Lesson learned, put it down to life experience and don't leave your keys hanging around in the future. One of my "friends" dropped my motorbike breaking his collar bone, never left my bike unattended with the keys after that.

 

[BustersDogs]

I was reading this post about to post something similar ?. It was the "Queensway Hall" car park in Dunstable in my time, which is now a supermarket. I actually think the police used to not mind us all hanging around there as at least they knew where we were, there used to be around 30 cars doing donuts and stuff.

Ha ha yes, I met my (now ex) husband 'in the car park'. Its also where I learned all my op parking skills. Raining? Yes I will reverse next to my friends car 1 inch between us and chat through opened windows. Social distancing before it was fashionable. Ah, the good old days.

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

@Gordon - Commercial Finance can do you a bright orange RS.

that will be under the radar

I think I would like to distance myself from everything to do with this thread..... ??

 

[IanSuth]

I was reading this post about to post something similar ?. It was the "Queensway Hall" car park in Dunstable in my time, which is now a supermarket. I actually think the police used to not mind us all hanging around there as at least they knew where we were, there used to be around 30 cars doing donuts and stuff.
Basically, as said early, it's done and just keep your head down and carry on being young. Lesson learned, put it down to life experience and don't leave your keys hanging around in the future. One of my "friends" dropped my motorbike breaking his collar bone, never left my bike unattended with the keys after that.

There was a change in the interpretation of the law a good few years back over car cruises etc - basically if a place is open to the public like a car park then for road traffic purposes it is the same as the road.

So you can no longer teach your kid to drive in a car park without insurance and you can be done for drunk in charge in a car park. It affected how me manage our bike events

If you want the full info on that head to any campervan forum as they are full of debate on whether you can be done for having a beer in a pub and then sleeping in your camper van in it's car park. People go as far as locking away the ignition key or having the landlord hold them to be sure

 

[cjd]

If you want the full info on that head to any campervan forum as they are full of debate on whether you can be done for having a beer in a pub and then sleeping in your camper van in it's car park. People go as far as locking away the ignition key or having the landlord hold them to be sure

The short answer is that yes you can be done for that, though the offence would be being drunk in charge of a vehicle not drunk driving - not quite as bad (minimum 10 points, not an automatic disqualification).

The only way to avoid it with certainty is not to have the keys in the van at all. Keys in the ignition is a no-no, keys in the glove box or boot is mitigation and might be a let off depending on circumstances.

I know someone done for sleeping in his car in the pub car park with his keys in his pocket. Most people would say that he was acting responsibly by not driving home, but he was in the driver's seat...

There'd have to be a good reason for the police to get involved, usually it's a tip-off from 'a concerned citizen'.

 

[japancool]

I know someone done for sleeping in his car in the pub car park with his keys in his pocket.

Cops hadn't met their quota for the day?

 

[IanSuth]

Cops hadn't met their quota for the day?

Generally it is things like, loud and noisy parties or person being disorderly in the pub where the drunk in charge (i did post that not drink driving very specifically up above) offence is a means to an end in punishing someone as it is easy to prove objectively - in car, had keys in possession and over limit

 

[T4YLR]

The fact of the matter is that as a group you managed to upset someone - or a few people.

You have absolutely no need to tell us what actually happened (perhaps it is as you say) because it won't change anything.

Just keep your head down, try not to pi55 people off, and perhaps be more selective in your friends

You'll have been given the section 59 for not having control of your vehicle, nowt to do with the trolley.

If it was a dog or infant in the car that accidentally knocked it into gear and ran over half a dozen people would you still say it wasn't your fault?

He didn't give me it for that, he gave me it for the 'trolley' stunts and how can i not be in control of my car when it wasn't even on. He didnt mention a thing about my friend driving my car without permission. Also when I was using the car to play music it wasnt on so putting it in gear wouldnt of made a difference

 

[IanSuth]

He didn't give me it for that, he gave me it for the 'trolley' stunts and how can i not be in control of my car when it wasn't even on. He didnt mention a thing about my friend driving my car without permission. Also when I was using the car to play music it wasnt on so putting it in gear wouldnt of made a difference

"Control of a car" basically means being in possession of the keys or means to start it - he "could" even have just taken off the brake and let it roll into a crowd of disabled children (if there was a hill and some children in wheelchairs)

Not worth fighting as you won't win - as others have said - your reg is now on the PNC (as is your name) either be squeeky clean for a long while or change your car (or both)

 

[paulears]

You've missed something quite important. If you were on private property, then the requirement to have insurance, tax and licences is a tricky one, because you can have a car parked on private land, with no tax and insurance and no offence has been committed. The owner of the land could no doubt take you to a civil court for a number of things, but probably won't. This is why the Police have few powers when the teenagers do donuts on supermarket car parks. However, as soon as you are on the public roads, they can then check whatever they need to. Your car now has a marker on it. Expect a tug late at night, when you have lots of passengers (as they'll all have weed in their pockets) and if you have modified the vehicle in any way, expect checks being made with the insurers. Being honest though - if you were all being nuisances, and had been on public roads, then you could have been in deep water. Your friend could have got a ban because if you said you gave him permission, then that's you stuffed, but if you said he took the vehicle without your permission, he'd blame you for his arrest.

Probably just best to grow up and stop being a typical juvenile new driver. If you want to keep your car, behave in it. The marker will be there for a very long time - so until you sell it, every time you pass a static or mobile number plate recognition camera, you'll get pinged and if there is a police unit nearby, and it is 2am, you'll get a tug. That's life once you start to misbehave.

 

[cjd]

You've missed something quite important. If you were on private property, then the requirement to have insurance, tax and licences is a tricky one, because you can have a car parked on private land, with no tax and insurance and no offence has been committed.

Ian has already explained that this is no longer the case. Supermarket car parks are now recognised as public highway as the public are allowed to use them.

 

[paulears]

Ian didn’t mention that many shared car parks for the big centres are managed, and, like the one near me, have very large private property signs designed to ensure the football pitches next door don’t use and take up the spaces at the weekends. By asserting the property is private in this way, the private, used as public, rules do not apply, making it a civil matter. The similar car park at a different shopping area two miles away does have police action taken. Look for the signs. If they put them up to retain rights, like maybe fees for overstaying, they cannot have it both ways. Public, private used as public, or private used with rules.

 

[cjd]

If the car park allows public access, it's subject to all the rules that apply on the public roads. Putting up a sign does not affect that. A supermarket car park allowing anybody in is a public place.

Can I drive my uninsured vehicle on private land?
FAQ
The Road Traffic Act states that any person who uses or permits a vehicle to be used on “a road or other public place” must have the minimum of third party insurance cover.
You do not have to have insurance if the private land is an area to which the public do not have access. However, you would need insurance if the vehicle is on private land to which the public do have access. This can include “private” car parks, campsites, private estates etc. The term “public place” is far more wide ranging than most people appreciate.

 

[paulears]

Yes - but research a little more and you will find the exemption for private roads that I'm talking about. If you see a bit of apparently public parking that generates income - the very common signs - these are NOT public. Ask a Police Officer. They will tell you the sites local to you where they cannot carry out enforcement. It is NOT down to allowing the public access. Income generation would be impossible if every person who got the sticky ticket could claim it was a public car park. That is why those signs are there. No sign, public. Signs - private. The Police get complaints they do not take action on some car parks. This is their answer.

 

[cjd]

Yes - but research a little more and you will find the exemption for private roads that I'm talking about. If you see a bit of apparently public parking that generates income - the very common signs - these are NOT public. Ask a Police Officer. They will tell you the sites local to you where they cannot carry out enforcement. It is NOT down to allowing the public access. Income generation would be impossible if every person who got the sticky ticket could claim it was a public car park. That is why those signs are there. No sign, public. Signs - private. The Police get complaints they do not take action on some car parks. This is their answer.

Individual police pick 'n mix what they tell people about car parks. My neighbour was told by the police that because Sainsbury's car park is private they can't interfere. That's total bullshit! If you got caught without a licence there you'd be charged.

The law courts - not the police - determine what is public and what is private, and the law is quite wide. If the general public are allowed to routinely drive in and out of a place, it's will be highly likely to be deemed a public place if it ever landed in court.
Whether local police choose to look the other way is down to their own operating practices. I certainly wouldn't rely on it should anything go wrong.