Europe should we stay in or get out?

[Chris Ashdown]

We keep hearing about what Norway has to pay and what it gets back with no say in the EU

Norway is a very small country with a small population and only has a few very big companies plus oil and fish

due to this they did not have any bargaining power to get open borders and hence paid a massive price for their independence

UK on the other hand buys far more from the EU then it exports so is in a totally different situation

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Not sure what has been said so far, but I'm voting to stay for a few reasons:

1). This is a total shot in the dark. Right now, we know what it's like to be in the EU, and whilst it might not be perfect, no one has any idea what it would be like if we leave. Some think-tanks believe GDP might improve slightly, whilst others believe it will go down. Contrary to what some might say, it is a complete unknown as it has never been done with a country of this size before.

It's a big gamble with no tangible outcomes which would improve GDP so far. People say we can negotiate trade agreements, but we won't know how well those negotiations go until after we leave. That leads me nicely on to point 2:

2). We will not get the same level of free trade with the EU as we do now. It just won't happen. There is no way the EU will allow the UK the same FTA as EU members enjoy between each other. It would undermine the whole point of the EU and start making other members question why they're even in it.

What would it say to other members if the UK could leave the EU and create all of the laws they want without contributing a penny, yet get the exact same free trade rights as everyone who is obliged to follow EU law and contribute to the budget? Even if it benefits some EU countries, they won't allow it.

3). People say the UK can negotiate its own trade deals with the world, but the EU is currently doing that as a collective which we benefit from, and it has a heck of a lot more leverage than the UK on its own, which is comparatively a minnow. There is no guarantee, or even likelihood, that we could negotiate the same or better FTAs on our own as we could in the EU.

Plus, we would end up competing against the EU and their own FTAs, and they have a lot more bargaining power and would continue looking out for their own interests (which would exclude the UK). With the EU economy the size it is, they would be prioritised and get preferential treatment regarding FTAs over the UK. The EU could also pressure any country or bloc in negotiation for an FTA with the UK which undermines the EU economy and takes away the impact of their own FTAs.

4). Many people come out with "let's take back control of our country" and "let's make our own laws again". Except it isn't us making the laws. It's the Government. The question is, with the Tories and their austerity, just how many laws might they have actually made worse for the people if they had complete control over them? Just how many positive laws is the EU actually protecting from harm?

Plus, apart from immigration, just how many EU-influenced laws are the UK so eager to really change if they get the opportunity? How many are probably going to stay exactly the same? Some people want to leave and put the UK in risk just to have the right to exercise law changes which we won't even use in most cases (and where we do, they could become worse).

Read the Acquis communautaire of EU legislation. Many, many areas of it involve improving quality, fairness, equality, accountability, cooperation and justice. Do you know why Turkey is nowhere near close to joining the EU? Because they are nowhere near meeting these higher standards. These are standards we must follow, but by leaving the EU, the UK Government is no longer held to these higher standards. Considering the changes they've made which have been detrimental to quality of life for the British people, I can't say I trust them to improve on many of these areas or even maintain them.

5). The Norway and Switzerland argument is mentioned frequently, and it is correct. Both countries are out the EU, but still have to abide by most laws and still have to contribute to the EU for access to the single market, but they don't have a say in the EU laws they have to follow.

Some claim the UK would be different, but it won't. It's like any "club". You stick to the rules and you pay your membership fee for access to the benefits.

It doesn't matter one iota that the UK exports so much to the EU, or that EU-level FTAs would benefit the EU as a whole. We will not be given preferential treatment to the point where other EU nations start to wonder why they're even in the EU if countries can just leave and enjoy the same benefits. The LAST thing they want is more referendums like this popping up elsewhere.

They will take the economical hit to protect the fundamental meaning and purpose of the EU, as it's unravelling would be far, far more costly.

 

[amberlamps]

A lot of hocus pocus which is untrue.

You're just afraid, like a lot of people, but it's better to show backbone than cowardice.

It's also not particularly decent or honourable to subject your fellow countrymen to slavery within the EU, just because it's what you want for yourself. You want to be a slave and have your life run for you from Brussels? Then have it for yourself; don't try and force it upon people who don't want it. You want to ruin your children's future? Then do so, but don't try to ruin the future of your countrymen's kids.

The only good thing to come from the EU "debate" so far is that we are able to observe the people who are identifying themselves as weasley bootlickers.

 

[lisaaaaa0]

It is probably the best idea tot leave Europe, but is it that simple?
There are probably many appointments where we are bounded to..

 

[amberlamps]

It is probably the best idea tot leave Europe, but is it that simple?

You might be in the wrong thread. We are not talking about leaving Europe, because the sheer engineering scale of floating our island off into the middle of the Atlantic, taking care not to crash into Ireland on the way, would make such a venture foolish to undertake. This thread is about leaving the EU, which is a political dictatorship. Europe and the EU are two entirely different things and should not be confused.

There are probably many appointments where we are bounded to..

That's why we want to leave the EU; to get out of these "appointments" which are detrimental to the welfare of the British people and actually, the rest of the European peoples as well.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

You're just afraid, like a lot of people, but it's better to show backbone than cowardice.

It's also not particularly decent or honourable to subject your fellow countrymen to slavery within the EU, just because it's what you want for yourself. You want to be a slave and have your life run for you from Brussels? Then have it for yourself; don't try and force it upon people who don't want it. You want to ruin your children's future? Then do so, but don't try to ruin the future of your countrymen's kids.

The only good thing to come from the EU "debate" so far is that we are able to observe the people who are identifying themselves as weasley bootlickers.

If this is the only response you can muster regarding the points I've raised, then I sincerely hope that as many undecided voters as possible read this thread.

The "out" campaign, everybody.

PS: I've said my piece so I'm going to leave it there. I just wanted to put my points on the table as this IS a thread asking about opinions on the referendum.

Some will want to stay, and some will want to go, but that's the whole point of a democratic vote. Considering how powerful this vote is, and how much it could shape generations to come, it's vital that every point is broken down and discussed constructively on both sides. I hope you can respect that.

 

[amberlamps]

If this is the only response you can muster regarding the points I've raised, then I sincerely hope that as many undecided voters as possible read this thread.

The "out" campaign, everybody.

I don't have infinite time to educate people about the EU, when it is each individual's responsibility to educate themselves. The facts are freely available.
Being pro or anti EU is not about opinions, since reality is something which exists outside of opinion. The nature of the EU is not an ambiguous one.
Rather, it is about personal motivation. Some people are motivated to live freely and to take personal responsibility for the well-being of their children, their people and their country. For others, their motivation is to live as a boot-licker, to be slaves to, and have their beliefs assigned to them by, authority.
As I discovered in this thread: http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/articles/is-brexit-good-for-small-businesses-and-uk-plc.229/

Arguing with someone who is motivated by cowardice and moral degeneracy and who does not have the strength to be responsible for his own self, is pointless because, like I said, the issue is one of motivation, not opinion. It's like arguing with a religious person: you will not sway their beliefs, because they *want* to believe in what they believe; they are not concerned with facts nor reality but rather only with their own feelings. They will engage in confirmation bias in order to back up their own beliefs, as the pain of cognitive dissonance and then reversal of their belief is too painful for them to bear.

For the pro-EU dictatorship types, their need to *feel* nice at living under authority trumps any motivation to care for the welfare of their own children, or even their own people.

So, as for the points you raised, go and answer them yourself. What you wrote could have come straight from the BBC, so it's safe to assume that you like to have your views assigned to you by authority. Abandon such folly and instead embrace reality if you are able to; if not for your own sake then for the sake of your children.

 

[talkinpeace]

I'm still waiting to hear which UK laws are to be repealed if there is an exit vote

and I'm still waiting to hear how democratic the UK civil service is ....

 

[amberlamps]

I'm still waiting to hear which UK laws are to be repealed if there is an exit vote

and I'm still waiting to hear how democratic the UK civil service is ....

Rather than "waiting to hear", maybe you could find out for yourself. Self-education is important, and necessary as it happens.

As for the civil service, it is not democratic, as it is an arm of the EU as long as we remain slaves.
Just the other day, Cameron told civil servants that they were not allowed to use public resources to help the "out" campaign, but were allowed to use public resources to help the "in" campaign. That's how democratic it is.

 

[talkinpeace]

Rather than "waiting to hear", maybe you could find out for yourself.

I favour staying in.
I hear lots about EU regulations but nobody ever seems to be able to name a specific one
or name how it would magically leave the UK statute book on an exit vote

the UK civil service is a lot older than the EU : it has been acting in an unaccountable manner for 300 years - what makes you think it would stop if there was a vote to leave the EU

 

[amberlamps]

I favour staying in.
I hear lots about EU regulations but nobody ever seems to be able to name a specific one
or name how it would magically leave the UK statute book on an exit vote

That's because there are thousands of pages of regulations, which is beyond the means of people to study.
It's immaterial anyway. It's very easy to know that we will be better off ruling ourselves, without having to study thousands of pages of documents.

the UK civil service is a lot older than the EU : it has been acting in an unaccountable manner for 300 years - what makes you think it would stop if there was a vote to leave the EU

Who said anything about it stopping?
As long as we are in the EU, there's little we can do about improving the quality of the British civil service, since it is an arm of the EU now.
If we want to improve the quality of the civil service, then we must leave the EU so that we are able to do so.

If your concern is the civil service, then you are an "out" voter, not an "in" voter.

 

[talkinpeace]

If we want to improve the quality of the civil service, then we must leave the EU so that we are able to do so.

ROTFLMAO

 

[amberlamps]

If we want to improve the quality of the civil service, then we must leave the EU so that we are able to do so.

ROTFLMAO

You're right to laugh, because mentioning that being ruled by someone else so that we aren't able to rule ourselves or make improvements to the quality of governance in our country, is a real belly howler. I'm taking this joke to Edinburgh and expect to have them rolling in the aisles.

 

[amberlamps]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/12176234/Nine-deceptions-in-our-history-with-the-EU.html

Why would they need to lie to get everyone into the EU by stealth?

 

[amberlamps]

From the Mirror of all places: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/britain-dictatorship-under-cameron-after-7455290

 

[Leather Briefcase Company]

We joined the Common Market in 1973, along with Ireland, bringing the number of countries up to nine.
Personally I'm all for the trading benefits that came with that, and since.
However the huge disadvantage that has developed is that politicians have done what they always do if not regulated.
They grow their own powers.
I do not want legislation imposed from a European base, that we seem powerless to control.
My forecast is this country will vote to take the logical step our own politicians have tried to delay for years.
We leave.
Predictions.
Greece, Italy, Denmark, and the Netherlands will be close behind.
Germany and France will completely re-assess their position and political leadership.
The EU will then truly reform as a great trading alliance, as in the original vision, and include many other countries to foster international trade and help for developing nations.

 

[Clinton]

I've always been in favour of Out. But thinking about it some more, I think the UK will become more like the US if outside of the EU and that terrifies me in many respects.

On privacy: The EU is a lot stricter on privacy than the US. Out of the EU, I don't trust our UK politicians. Even someone as far to the right as Hague takes the "if you've got nothing to hide..." line. Civil liberties will take a major hit.

On GM crops: Out of the EU I suspect GM will get approved in the UK, initially for cattle feed or bio-fuel (to soften the blow). My problem with GM is not ethical or scientific, it's giving large corporations that much control over our food supplies (farmers can't grow their own seed - they have to buy it).

Talking about large businesses -from pharma to energy, outside of the EU I fear we'll end up with more power (directly and indirectly) vested with large businesses and their lobbyists, and that'll work to the detriment of the individual.

On tax: Curbing the ease with which the Starbucks and Googles of this world avoid tax is a major problem facing governments and while we can continue the fight at OECD - and Osbourne has done a good job there - we are in a far better position if we are in EU.

Unbalanced economy: Like Iceland was, we are far too dependent on financial services. A major shock to the world's financial systems would affect us disproportionately. A tsunami much, much bigger than the credit shock of 2008 is not impossible.

Environment: Again, I see Britain withdrawing from, or reducing, commitments on planet protection if left to our myopic, short-termist local politicians.

Negotiating independent deals and treaties: There was a time the UK civil service could have taught anyone in the world a lot of tricks, but that talent has long since gone. We'll get torn to shreds at negotiation tables ... or at least be severely disadvantaged because we've relied to the EU so much these many years that we've lost a valuable skill we once had.

There are numerous downsides to the EU, which is why I've always wanted out. But the above and other reasons do concern me greatly and leave me thinking I may not be on the right side here.

 

[ADNattan]

For others, their motivation is to live as a boot-licker, to be slaves to, and have their beliefs assigned to them by, authority.

Arguing with someone who is motivated by cowardice and moral degeneracy and who does not have the strength to be responsible for his own self, is pointless.

Bit of free advice here for you. When you're trying to persuade someone that you're right, try not to resort to insults, ranting, and a general tone of furious unpleasantness.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Bit of free advice here for you. When you're trying to persuade someone that you're right, try not to resort to insults, ranting, and a general tone of furious unpleasantness.

This.

Unfortunately, this is synonymous with many outers. They just bark the same meaningless rhetoric about "taking our country back" and "ruling ourselves". Instead of constructively arguing against the real and credible threats of leaving, just claim people are not "brave" enough.

Someone can be brave enough to jump off a bridge if they want to. It still doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do.

Many points raised are also frequently met with "I don't have time to educate you", or "educate yourself".

Apart from immigration, I have yet to be directed towards a single law governed by Brussels which is considered detrimental to the UK and should be reversed immediately upon taking control.

And even if there are some laws, which there perhaps are within the lengthy book of EU legislation, it would be at the expense of many EU benefits we do enjoy.

Absolutely no one who wants to stay in the EU claims it's perfect. Of course not. However, the question is what is ultimately best for the UK in terms of economy, trade, justice, cooperation, fairness and quality of life for us.

You may also notice that many outers can't seem to find a good word to say about the EU, which is highly questionable as there are quite obviously many benefits we have enjoyed. This blanket hatred of the EU, and the opinions it has an influence on, should be viewed with caution.

I agree with a lot of what Clinton has said. Right now, our Government answers to the EU on a fair few things. Without the EU, they answer to no one. Dig into EU legislation and you will find that it's quite fairly balanced and good for our country, as it was created with the input of dozens of nations across a wide range of political spectra. It certainly provides a degree of protection from radical governments left to their own devices.

I honestly can't fathom why anyone who doesn't trust our Government and doesn't trust our politicians would be so eager to leave the EU. It gives them a LOT more power.

Quality of life in the UK has taken a big hit for many people in the past 10 years or so. Trace every reason back to its source and you will find that our own Government has been responsible for the vast majority of reasons. One of the few things they haven't been able to touch is working rights, which are thankfully controlled by the EU.

These are not the only reasons, of course. The free single market is highly beneficial for our trade and economy, and the FTAs we do form after years and years of negotiation will not be the same. That is one thing which, for the reasons I mentioned in my earlier post, is guaranteed.

 

[amberlamps]

Bit of free advice here for you. When you're trying to persuade someone that you're right, try not to resort to insults, ranting, and a general tone of furious unpleasantness.

But I'm not trying to persuade him that I'm right. It doesn't matter what I say, or you say, or he says, or what anyone says, because whether or not the EU is good for the British people has nothing to do with opinion; it's something which is easily knowable; it is a fact.
It's motivation which causes a person to be in either the "out" or the "in" camp. Decent people are motivated not to sell their family and countrymen into future slavery; human garbage are not.

There's nothing wrong with pointing out that someone who follows authority is a boot-licker, because that's exactly what they are. Just as there's nothing wrong with pointing out that a thief is a thief or a fraudster is a fraudster. Any offence taken is in the mind of the beholder.
If someone gets the boo-hoos from it being pointed out that they are a boot-licker, for instance, then they have the option to stop being a boot-licker. A person isn't a boot-licker because someone says they are; they are a boot-licker because they are one.

Our ancestors fought and suffered and died in two great wars so that their descendants could live free from foreign (German) rule. There's nothing wrong with pointing out that the people who spit on their ancestors' sacrifices are wrong-'uns, because that's exactly what they are. If they are offended by the airing of this fact, then they have the option to change themselves for the better. Some will be capable of this; others not.

 

[ADNattan]

So basically, you're adding nothing to this conversation apart from some pointless criticism aimed at those who've taken a different position to you.

Thanks for clarifying. Now we've got that sorted, people can safely ignore your insults for what they are.

So, does anyone supporting an exit have any actual points we can all consider beyond "YOU'RE DESECRATING YOUR GRANDFATHER'S GRAVE?"

 

[simon field]

I'd be up for a brexit, just for entertainment value. I'm a curious sort though, so it doesn't go much deeper than that for me. I find the whole 'your bit, my bit, you can't go on my bit 'cos you'll take my shit' money-grabbing thing a tad unsettling and greedy.

I honestly don't mind what they do, as long as the fun continues!

 

[talkinpeace]

LEAVE supporters :
Please list what you want gone
in detail
a that is what I'm utterly lacking sight of

esoteric crap like democracy is just bilge as the UK invented it
WHAT rules do you expect gone and HOW

 

[amberlamps]

So basically, you're adding nothing to this conversation apart from some pointless criticism aimed at those who've taken a different position to you.

Thanks for clarifying. Now we've got that sorted, people can safely ignore your insults for what they are.

So, does anyone supporting an exit have any actual points we can all consider beyond "YOU'RE DESECRATING YOUR GRANDFATHER'S GRAVE?"

You haven't been paying attention. I'm not criticising them for taking a different position to me. As I said before, opinion is irrelevant in the in/ out situation since the facts are easily knowable. I'm criticising them because they are weasles, boot-lickers, traitors and wrong-'uns.

As for reasons why people want to leave the EU, aren't you able to use Google? I'll help you: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=reasons+to+leave+the+eu

 

[amberlamps]

I'd be up for a brexit, just for entertainment value.
I honestly don't mind what they do, as long as the fun continues!

The "fun" will become even more intense if we stay in the EU.
They've been targeting the opposition to the takeover for years, just as they did in Russia and China (and elsewhere) before them. Once consolidated, they'll use more physical methods in crushing dissent again, just as they did in Russia and China. The Cold War never really ended. The ideology which drove it merely moved into Western Europe instead.

 

[Chris34]

LEAVE supporters :
Please list what you want gone
in detail
a that is what I'm utterly lacking sight of

esoteric crap like democracy is just bilge as the UK invented it
WHAT rules do you expect gone and HOW

All the ones that prevent us doing what we, as a country, want to do.

Things like this just shouldn't be happening:

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2106807,00.html

If we are independent, then we will no longer have to put up with rubbish like this.


Chris.

 

[simon field]

Fair enough Chris but that's an extremely rare example given the number of crimes that are committed every day on our green & pleasant land.

We've done 'being in Europe but not in the Euro' so why not give it a go the other way round, ie out of the Europe but give the Euro a go?

When I went to Tenerife, a quality beer was ONE EURO! It's 4 quid over here!

 

[amberlamps]

All the ones that prevent us doing what we, as a country, want to do.

Things like this just shouldn't be happening:

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2106807,00.html

If we are independent, then we will no longer have to put up with rubbish like this.


Chris.

The "in" traitors want us to experience things like the outrage you posted.
Their need to feel nice by obeying authority trumps any motivation they may or may not have to protect their own country and people, even their own children. This is why I call them out on the filth they are. What variety of British people would want to subject their own people and children to such horrors? The answer: the filth variety.
So, I call them traitors, wrong-'uns, filth, weasels..... because that's exactly what they are. They don't like it because it hurts their feelings, and their feelings are all that matters, you see.

The best example of this was scribe0101 above, who said he would vote to stay in, and to subject his own people to horrors, just because someone had hurt his feelings. This is how low a large proportion of the British people have sunk. Brave men and women of this country fought and died so that the filth of today could give away the things which better men and women had won for them.

 

[talkinpeace]

Chris : if deporting shitty people was fettered by the EU, how come America has such problems

and I'm still waiting to hear WHICH piece of legislation the out campaign want to see the back of

 

[amberlamps]

and I'm still waiting to hear WHICH piece of legislation the out campaign want to see the back of

Since the "out" campaign want out of the EU, they want rid of all EU regulation so that we can start from scratch and choose what is best for us.
If we are out of the EU and we see that the EU has a piece of legislation that we can copy for ourselves, then we may do so. As it is now, we do not have a choice. The "in" traitors do not want us to have a choice, ever.

An example is the "Australian points-style system for immigration". It's an Australian idea and has worked incredibly well for them, but UKIP want to adopt it for the UK because they believe, correctly as it happens, that it is better for us than the current "we can't choose who comes here" EU legislation which we currently have no choice about having to have.

 

[talkinpeace]

Amberlamps
All EU legislation is mirrored (and gold plated) in UK legislation.
Anybody who does not understand that fact needs to read more.
Leaving the EU will not affect the UK Law.
So
Which UK Laws do you want reversed?

NB Immigration Laws are not an EU issue outside the "free movement" one - half of UK immigrants are non EU and the UK has never kept a record of ILR migrants so the starting point is pretty weak.

 

[Clinton]

All the ones that prevent us doing what we, as a country, want to do.

Things like this just shouldn't be happening:

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2106807,00.html

If we are independent, then we will no longer have to put up with rubbish like this.


Chris.

Chris, you're making a good case for staying in the EU.

I have zero sympathy for terrorists and Muslim fundamentalists (whether terrorists or not), but your link says that the judge had to release him because the British government held Qatada for six years without trial and without charging him.

I don't know about you but I'm terrified of governments willing to hold people prisoner based on the whim of ministers. We have courts and judges to decide guilt, not politicians. The excuse the government uses to not charge him - "we don't want to disclose intelligence" - could be used against anyone the government doesn't like, including you or me. Or anyone who expresses opinions not in sync with the ruling party's.

See my previous comments about the UK becoming more like the US. I'm delighted at this ruling (though extremely disappointed that this man wasn't tried and sentenced to life).

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

All the ones that prevent us doing what we, as a country, want to do.

Things like this just shouldn't be happening:

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2106807,00.html

If we are independent, then we will no longer have to put up with rubbish like this.


Chris.

The only reason this has occurred is because we are bound to the European Convention on Human Rights.

Changing this situation would involve us doing away with this and having the Government create a weaker set of human rights laws for us to abide by.

Whilst this rare and extreme situation was very frustrating, it is important not to wish away our own fundamental human rights, as the Government, with little accountability, can create new laws however they wish. Changes to these laws would affect all of us. They're the basic human rights we've got, and I'm quite hesitant to have politicians meddling in them however they see fit.

Let's not also forget that he was eventually deported to Jordan in 2013.

 

[sirearl]

Whatever way the vote goes people in the UK will still live in a society with an unelected monarchy,unelected house of lords,unelected cabinet and governed by a party that only 24% of the population voted for.

Basically the in vote favours the poor and the out vote favours "the I'm all right brigade"

So nothing will change for most ,same old same old.

 

[amberlamps]

Basically the in vote favours the poor and the out vote favours "the I'm all right brigade"

It's the other way around.
The EU is a corporatist entity, so it favours corporations. Part of the motivation behind importing millions of low skilled and low capability people is to suppress wages, meaning that it keeps people poor. These people can then be given welfare, which ties them to the state whilst taking back the money through VAT, the corporate bosses receiving their cut of course through the purchases.

The UK government is also corporatist in nature, but less so that the EU. It has become more so since the EU has had more power of it. We can change the nature of the UK government if we are outside the EU, but we cannot change the nature of the EU.

The EU also exhibits its corporatist nature by issuing excessive regulation to strangle small business.

To favour small business, or at least put them on a level playing field, we would need to leave the EU, stop mass immigration, cut red tape, bring back grammar schools so that poor but bright kids can get a good education, and embrace capitalism again so we don't live under a privatised profits, socialised losses system for big business.

society with an unelected monarchy,unelected house of lords,unelected cabinet and governed by a party that only 24% of the population voted for

This is a moot point whilst we are in the EU, anyway, and were we to vote to remain, then it would be even more of a moot point.

If we vote out then we will be able to change the unelected nature of these things but until then it doesn't matter since the EU will be sovereign.

 

[amberlamps]

Which UK Laws do you want reversed?

It's a pointless question to ask until we come out of the EU, since we cannot change anything meaningful until then.

 

[sirearl]

“If voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it.”
― Mark Twain

 

[bharris]

One of my favourite comments from a "banker" during the Greek exit saga was "the only things you can be sure of is the sun will come up in the morning and i will make money regardless" Don't worry about leaving nothing bad will happen, the sun will still come up in the morning some business will prosper some wont.
The big problem i have with the EU is the vast sums of money involved

" The UK gave the EU €14.5bn in 2013 (in cash rather than any other kind or benefit), and directly got back €6.3bn. "

with the amount we are required to pay increasing dramatically. With amounts like this imagine the good we could do for our country that's 16 new brand new hospitals every year and we still fund all of the grants etc. the EU give us. Could we spend an additional £8bn on Cancer research. New schools, equipment , roads, housing, adult education, The amount of additional employment would also bring in more government revenue. Don't forget this is not a one off payment its every year with increasing amounts going to the EU.

 

[talkinpeace]

It's a pointless question to ask until we come out of the EU, since we cannot change anything meaningful until then.

No, its not a pointless question.
Surely the "out" brigade have a list of UK laws they plan to repeal the day after the vote
sight of that list might be useful to both sides

 

[amberlamps]

No, its not a pointless question.
Surely the "out" brigade have a list of UK laws they plan to repeal the day after the vote
sight of that list might be useful to both sides

You'll have to ask them.
I think for most people, the reasons are:
controlling our own future
making a better future for our kids
not being ruled by a foreign government
being able to choose our own laws
controlling our borders
not having to waste billions a year on the EU
making our own trade deals
etc

The "in" people disagree with the above though, because being ruled by other people, wasting money and not making our own laws are good things, haha. The pathetic simpletons/ traitors.

Until we get out of the EU, and remove the traitors from power in this country, then it matters not about specific laws, since there's little to nothing we can do to change them.