Europe should we stay in or get out?
- Thread starter Funding for Communities
- Start date
T
telemax
True enough, we've sold off everything off the back of a barrel to the highest international bidder, we are about to subcontract control of part our nuclear power generation to an unpredictable strategic rival. Questionable regimes own much of the prime property in central London yet anti Europe campaigners believe continued membership of the EU will somehow take away our 'independence' .
Being cynical I think that the whole referendum issue is an excellent distraction from the nasty old cuts that our coming our way.
Being cynical I think that the whole referendum issue is an excellent distraction from the nasty old cuts that our coming our way.
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IN.
No matter what the other arguments are, the only one to think about is war. In the last 100 years we have fought in two world wars at immense cost and loss of life. After each we had to rebuild our country from scratch. We won't be having any wars with European countries while we are a member. It puts everything else into perspective. I can put up with a bit of bureaucracy if it means that my family never end up as cannon fodder.
No matter what the other arguments are, the only one to think about is war. In the last 100 years we have fought in two world wars at immense cost and loss of life. After each we had to rebuild our country from scratch. We won't be having any wars with European countries while we are a member. It puts everything else into perspective. I can put up with a bit of bureaucracy if it means that my family never end up as cannon fodder.
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Both times we went to war was because Germany was trying to dominate the continent.
That would never happen these days. Oh wait...
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One way or another we seem to have been having a battle somewhere else in the world for the last 50 years or so. Look at the expense and repercussions. At least if the 'tin pot' politicians can argue over a table then it's better than sorting it out on a battlefield. The EU is a frustrating organisation but you can only defeat something like it from the inside. The original idea of being a free trade exchange organisation seems to have got lost somewhere.
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You cannot defeat it from the inside. The lack of democracy was built in from the beginning if you read the treaties. The EU govt does not answer to the people in the way that the US govt does.
And the UK is just one voice out of 28, with the other 27 seemingly hellbent on creating the EUSSR complete with 5-year plans. Can't find a reference right now but every attempt the UK has made to change something has been defeated.
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Do keep up, old chap.
Europe is a continent containing 50 odd countries. Only 28 of those are in the EU political union.
Barring a geophysical disaster we will always be in Europe, and can happily trade and cooperate with our neighbours.
And as I said above it won't be that sort of war. It will be the rebellion of Euroserf freedom fighters versus the politburo.
Think I'm joking? Why does the politburo want an EU army?
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S
sirearl
Well that would be great,all that money could be spent on something usefull.
It may also stop us being a primary target,not that it would matter much with 20 thousand warheads going off around us.
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If you go by the Eurovision Song Contest and the European Games, these countries include Israel, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Morocco and Australia!
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The real issue is do we want democracy or not?
Even if the EU were fully democratic with a constitution like that of the USA, would we want to be part of such a federation? I think not as we don't have enough in common. Different languages and very different systems of law and govt are insurmountable obstacles for us and the other countries.
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- Original Poster
- #60
This was on news programme this morning. The presenter was interviewing a French businessman. The businessman spoke on how President Hollande was being true to his Socialist roots by calling for more debt relief for Greece to which the presenter replied
"yes France are very good at doling out Germany's money"
OUCH
"yes France are very good at doling out Germany's money"
OUCH
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True, I don't get such openness of europeans about immigration. Of course they understand risks, but still... What will syrians do when they come to highly established country with no knowledge background. Understand me right, no offense here, they run away from hell, this is frightening and I feel sorry for them. But I think that society can invent better way to make them happy
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If you've got the wherewithall to get out of a warzone and head across a whole continent, you've probably got the mindset to succeed.
Unlike half the people I went to school with who are happily sat on the gravy train, taking benefits and spending the day smoking dope, watching Jeremy Kyle and having kids.
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perhaps we should put them in ghetto's or Turkey until we find a "final solution". What's the matter with you? These are human beings and quite frankly offer more than the waist of space degenerate people us the master race currently seem to be breading.True, I don't get such openness of europeans about immigration. Of course they understand risks, but still... What will syrians do when they come to highly established country with no knowledge background. Understand me right, no offense here, they run away from hell, this is frightening and I feel sorry for them. But I think that society can invent better way to make them happy
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Yes, these are human beings that were quite safe once they landed in Greece (or arrived in Turkey) & walked through many many other (safe) countries to get to the land of milk & honey (Germany)...let's recall - none of them wanted their fingerprints taken in Greece or Hungary etc. for fear of being sent back there when they got to their final destination (Germany). To be clear, these are either....
1. Syrians fleeing war...but wanting to make the most of it when they do.
2. Others, who are using the smoke & mirrors to try & get a better life.
I view this like watching someone who has saved all the lives to pass on their accrued wealth to their offspring, only to see the equivalent of Nicole Smith making a very late entry to divert the funds away to another family. That's what is happening here on a National scale....it's all very well being a 'right on' liberal - until you need urgent access the NHS...then you'll find out what liberalism is all about..
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There is a debate to be had about immigration, but there is little point in having it until we have regained democratic control of our nation, and have a govt that accounts to the people.
Then we can talk about which, when and where, and most importantly what steps we need to take to integrate those already here. It's vital to me that we are one nation, one culture, one set of laws.
Then we can talk about which, when and where, and most importantly what steps we need to take to integrate those already here. It's vital to me that we are one nation, one culture, one set of laws.
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In from me, no need for a knee jerk reaction when the long-term benefits could be so advantageous - politically and economically.
Britain needs to consider its global geopolitical positioning - we don't possess the power of old, and if we wish to maintain influence in the coming years, I believe we are better placed to do so within the EU
Britain needs to consider its global geopolitical positioning - we don't possess the power of old, and if we wish to maintain influence in the coming years, I believe we are better placed to do so within the EU
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So you are quite happy to no longer have a vote, and to be governed by unelected bureaucrats?
And what exactly are the economic advantages when the EU is in decline. Even without the Rotterdam effect*, UK exports to the rest of the world are larger and increasing.
*Rotterdam effect: Uk exports routed via Rotterdam are counted as exports to the EU, despite being destined for other countries.
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Like the House of Lords, or parties getting less than a third of the popular vote and having a mandate to govern?
I'd rather we sort out the ridiculous FPTP system and unelected chamber before we start pointing fingers elsewhere.
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Agreed, but voters rejected changing FPTP. That's a shame as particularly in the 21st century with modern communications a different sort of representation could be so much better.
But for me any democracy is better than none at all.
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S
sirearl
20% of the population gained enough votes to become A no 1.
some bleeding democracy there init peeps.
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