Europe should we stay in or get out?

[Funding for Communities]

WHAT THE !!!
There was a report on TV last night regarding us leaving the EU but still trading with them as Norway currently do. Apparently for the benefit of trading within the EU Norway has to pay an amount to the EU roughly the same as we pay now and also has to adopt around 75% of the laws and rules the EU passes. Over the last seven years this averages 5 new laws per day being imposed on Norway. The Norwegian minister said "the UK should stay in we are paying the same without a voice at the table".

A pro out Conservative minister was interviewed afterwards and couldn't answer the question of whether we would still be paying and adopting EU laws.

On that basis what's the point of getting out?

 

[pentel]

@Funding for Communities.

I am not aware of China having to adopt European legislation or contributing to the EU budget to be able to trade in the EU. It seems to work well for them!

 

[KM-Tiger]

On that basis what's the point of getting out?

Oh dear, you are falling for the Camoron spin and propaganda!

The 'Norwegian model' suits the Norwegians. They become rich and prosperous as a result. In particular they run a trade surplus with EU, where we run a significant deficit.

If we leave, we do not need to adopt the Norwegian model, and nor should we. We don't need to pay anybody anything to trade with them, when they (eg the German car manufacturers) need us more than we need them.

 

[billycan]

Sound of an approaching Gravy Train: EU, FIFA, EU, FIFA, undemocratic, corrupt, EU, FIFA, EU, FIFA....That's got a certain rhythm, I'll try it out on the Eurovision Song Corruption... sorry, Contest.

 

[Peter Durrant]

So you are quite happy to no longer have a vote, and to be governed by unelected bureaucrats?

And what exactly are the economic advantages when the EU is in decline. Even without the Rotterdam effect*, UK exports to the rest of the world are larger and increasing.
.

Once out there's no way were getting back in.

I for one don't agree with the element of undemocratic authority over individual states, but let's be honest, accountability is pretty weak even within our own governance.

Leaving the greatest inter-state collaboration, which can offer so much, not least prove so much to the rest of the world, is just short-sighted in my opinion.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Leaving the greatest inter-state collaboration, which can offer so much

What does it offer exactly? And is it worth £55M per day and rising?

 

[Peter Durrant]

Well if we leave, Britain could slip down 2 credit ratings.

The protection of the EU is worth quite a bit.

Sensationalist media, in its typical inglory, highlights the 'costs' of it all. In my opinion, these stories aren't worth the screen they're being read off.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Well if we leave, Britain could slip down 2 credit ratings.

The protection of the EU is worth quite a bit.

Protection from what?

That sounds like scaremongering.

 

[Pish_Pash]

And so it begins...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ade-barriers-if-it-leaves-eu?CMP=share_btn_tw

it definitely seems that it suits everyone else for us to stay in the EU

 

[KM-Tiger]

And so it begins...

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...ade-barriers-if-it-leaves-eu?CMP=share_btn_tw

Get used to spin, propaganda and lies. The same tactics were used in the 1975 referendum.

See here for a different take on that.

 

[MBE1]

Too much potential lost profit and other benefits for any country to refuse to trade, the UK is still a wealthy country and welcomes all and sundry to clean their money on these shores. Even if a country decided not to trade, so what? There are plenty of others happy to do so.

Why have the people of the UK lost belief in their own abilities? As a country we are as capable as any other and can forge our own better future. I cannot think of any real term benefit available from EU membership that cannot be achieved by being truly independent. Yes the UK would have to agree to many things from the EU to trade with them, just as we would with other countries, but that doesn't mean we should hand over control of the whole country at the same time.

The Greeks know who the EU is run for the benefit of, Germany. They no longer have a true country to speak of and many of their problems stem from the euro set to help German exports.

The real question is whether we wish to control our own destiny, remaining in the EU means eventual political union with europe, controlled by mainly unelected officials. Whilst in europe we have little say on most of our own new laws, we can't even stop economic migrants coming here even if it is unaffordable, once accepted by any EU state we then have free movement kicking into play.

So do people want to run the UK for our benefit or let someone else decide what we should be happy to accept? The UK has exceptional links around the world, we shouldn't be scared of running our own country, we should be excited at regaining it again.

 

[KM-Tiger]

The UK has exceptional links around the world

Indeed, we are members of the Commonwealth, the countries of which we have a lot in common with.

We speak the same language, and have the same or similar systems of law, and other cultural ties. But we are forbidden from making a trade agreement with a Commonwealth country by our EU membership.

 

[Leather Briefcase Company]

I like the original idea of a free trade area.
That should stay.
I truly dislike the political and legislative stuff coming from unaccountable and overpaid bureaucrats.
They can go.
I don't think Cameron has the status or will-power to achieve this, so we live in interesting times.

 

[KM-Tiger]

I don't think Cameron has the status or will-power to achieve this

No he doesn't, the feebleness in sticking up for the UK is sickening. The man is a pathetic traitor.

I think Theresa May is biding her time. Seeing which way the wind is blowing, and perhaps which way Boris will jump.

As you say, interesting times.

 

[Leather Briefcase Company]

Suppose the UK leaves the EU.
Greece, Ireland, Netherlands, Italy and Portugal follow.
And a free trade zone including Commonwealth countries is set up, and considers membership from all other countries.
Even more interesting times.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Getting out of the EU opens up huge possibilities.

For instance the best way to help African countries would be to trade with them, rather than send "aid", which quite likely ends up in the wrong hands. Ie buy their produce. We cannot so much at the moment because the EU insists on import tariffs. And potentially the cost of food in the UK could go down by around 17%, it has been estimated.

 

[Peter Durrant]

Point taken, there are some open doors through leaving the union, but maybe just maybe we could regret a decision which cannot be overturned

 

[MBE1]

Point taken, there are some open doors through leaving the union, but maybe just maybe we could regret a decision which cannot be overturned

But we gain a whole country in return, seems a good deal to myself.

 

[Peter Durrant]

Did the Scots say the same when they wanted their independence?

Freedoms, economic sovereignty? Or is it naivety?

 

[KM-Tiger]

Did the Scots say the same when they wanted their independence?

Freedoms, economic sovereignty? Or is it naivety?

Still cannot work that one out. The SNP wanted "independence" and EU membership.

The two are mutually exclusive.

 

[MBE1]

Seems the CBI has been criticised over it's opinion poll that british business wants to stay in europe, seems they stacked the decks, and receive large amounts of money from the EU as well, surely a conflict of interests?

People need to ignore the headlines and start reading between the lines.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...n-body-campaigning-leave-raised-concerns.html

 

[Funding for Communities]

According to yesterdays Times it looks like Cameron might get some meaningful concessions from Germany after all. Whether the French agree is another matter. We all know how much they love us!!

 

[KM-Tiger]

some meaningful concessions from Germany

That's exactly why we should get out.

Why the **** should we be asking for concessions from Germany.

 

[jacksonian]

The only people who will vote yes to staying in are the ones who have a vested self-interest, and in one or another way, can continue lining their pockets at the expense of everyone else; politicians AND big business. The EU is simply a different guise of Communism

 

[jacksonian]

According to yesterdays Times it looks like Cameron might get some meaningful concessions from Germany after all. Whether the French agree is another matter. We all know how much they love us!!

Indeed... love our contribution more like.

 

[japancool]

Once out there's no way were getting back in.

Why not?

 

[Talay]

Out but I'd also ditch the Welsh, Scottish, Irish and everything north of Watford.

 

[sirearl]

. The EU is simply a different guise of Communism

LOL It would be nice if you explained a tad more.

 

[KM-Tiger]

LOL It would be nice if you explained a tad more.

 

[jacksonian]

LOL It would be nice if you explained a tad more.

None necessary really - look up "State control", it's all there.That pic ^^^ sums it up

 

[garyk]

The only people who will vote yes to staying in are the ones who have a vested self-interest, and in one or another way, can continue lining their pockets at the expense of everyone else; politicians AND big business.

Agreed, they are using scare tactics and the 'unknown' to steer people away from voting 'out'. Much easier to stay where we are and keep the status quo. It really f**ks me off when I see/read stuff that says if we pull out this is going to happen/that's going to happen. No-one really knows, they can only speculate.

 

[talkinpeace]

The vast majority of EU "regulations and red tape" are enshrined - with gold plating - in UK law.
If the vote went to leave the EU then the UK parliament would have to repeal dozens of acts of parliament to create the changes that people expect.
That will not happen because the UK is one of the most centralised countries in the Western world.

 

[MAWuk]

Voting for anything politically related has become almost irrelevant in this Country. We are led to believe voting this way or another will change things drastically one way or another-I'm not convinced anymore. I've no faith in politicians to make any of our lives any better, I see them in their roles simply wanting what everybody else wants for themselves and their families-wealth and they will do whatever it takes to attain it whilst in power.

 

[Topzone]

Although the EU should reform, we are still better off inside. The UK can only achieve greater cooperation with other European countries from within the EU. Leaving the EU is not the solution, rather we should seek reform of the EU and more concessions. The present threat of terrorism requires the continued cooperation of EU countries.

 

[Chris34]

Although the EU should reform, we are still better off inside. The UK can only achieve greater cooperation with other European countries from within the EU. Leaving the EU is not the solution, rather we should seek reform of the EU and more concessions. The present threat of terrorism requires the continued cooperation of EU countries.

The UK has got better security links with the USA than it has with the EU, It's another scaremongering story that is the OPPOSITE of fact, that we are somehow safer if we stay in the EU.

Cameron took three days and practically put a gun to their heads to get a few minor changes and soundbites, this proves that reform is impossible.

Unfortunately the majority of the people in this country don't have any guts to make the decision to leave. Our only hope is for the mass migration to continue as most people are only concerned about the migrants, but you just know that the BBC won't be reporting it and they will just keep it all hush hush.


Chris.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Although the EU should reform, we are still better off inside. The UK can only achieve greater cooperation with other European countries from within the EU.

Really?

Better to be governed by an unelected dictatorship over which we have very little influence? Cameron's deal demonstrates just how little influence we have.

 

[garyk]

Although the EU should reform, we are still better off inside. The UK can only achieve greater cooperation with other European countries from within the EU. Leaving the EU is not the solution, rather we should seek reform of the EU and more concessions. The present threat of terrorism requires the continued cooperation of EU countries.

I'm sorry I just don't buy this no co-operation. Are you saying that countries wouldn't share key terrorist information? As @Chris34 says security forces co-operate regardless of where they are, its in *all* parties interests to do this *globally*.

Its like the narrow minded view that we can't trade with other EU member states if we leave. Of course we can, the same as we trade with US and far east now, its simply supply and demand, I've got it, you want it, I sell it to you. Seems to be all the politicians are choosing to ignore basic economics.

 

[john1989]

Although the EU should reform, we are still better off inside. The UK can only achieve greater cooperation with other European countries from within the EU. Leaving the EU is not the solution, rather we should seek reform of the EU and more concessions. The present threat of terrorism requires the continued cooperation of EU countries.

I suppose letting countries that support ISIS such as Turkey become EU members will help reduce the threat of terrorism greatly.

 

[scribe0101]

Ok, I've been quiet on this subject and that's probably because I'm not sure I'm informed enough to make the choice at the moment.

To me it's all about perception. I don't perceive that much in my daily life has been negatively impacted by being within the EU. You can't say "but what about this and that" because we didn't stay out to to see how "this and that" would have played out. I don't "perceive" any negatives.

I really don't care about how bendy a banana must or must not be. Yes it costs money to rule on it, but that's just government - governments waste money needlessly Full Stop! That won't change if we're out.

I don't care about metric martyrs (shouldn't it be imperial martyr?) and the EU banning selling things in imperial measures as I think the whole idea of clinging on to imperial the way we do is plain stupid (buy petrol in litres and measure/quote consumption in MPG?!?). I'm 42 and I was taught metric since the start of school, but we still want to quote our height as feet and inches and our weight as stone or pounds. Get over it and let it die!

The only negative I see about staying in is unchecked migration, but unless we change the immigration system as a whole there will still be a sea of people coming in. Personally I think this is a small country and it's getting pretty full.

Yes there are people who use the EU to come over here and claim benefits, but we have a concession on that (perhaps there's some detail I need to study there).

We do need migration. It is a fact plain and simple, but I would say eligibility and need should be measured. People quoting all the eastern european people taking away all the restaurant/hotel/cleaning jobs etc... as the reason we need to be out are missing the point that there is a lack of UK born people actually willing to do those jobs (or appreciating their job enough to hold onto it). And let's not forget that regardless of it being paid enough or not, those jobs are as well paid well as they are because we are IN the EU.

I don't think the sea of refugees waiting to find there way here from France would change if we were out which is one argument I've heard. They will still head this way - and let's not forget that more migrants head to Germany than the UK. The UK doesn't seem to be the worst off here, but we seem to b!tch about it the loudest for some reason.

Anyway, I'm rambling on here. I just haven't heard any politician campaign one way or the other with anything more than a sound-bite - nothing new there eh .

Perhaps I need to find time to study the facts to see if I perceive a negative impact one way or the other.

If the perceived impact is neutral I'll vote to stay in.

Just my 2 pence worth (actually probably only worth 1 pence really - we don't do 1/2 pence any more).

Cheers

Chris

 

[Karimbo]

I am really undecided. We dont need politians and press flooding the newswire with their propaganda. We need academics who are completely impartial to produce a lengthy study to show us the gains and losses to be had from withdrawing from the EU and staying in the EU.

At the moment all the discussion is just based around uninformed soundbites. "We pay £350million a day in taxes", Ok, I take your word for it, but what do UK NGOs, charities and othe rorgs get from the EU per day. What is our next import & export currently and what would happen if we withdrew from the EU and had tariffs imposed on it.

What about the fact that we import a lot of food from Spain, Italy, Greece. If there is a food shortage will they put tariffs on all food exports out of the EU, the EU which we have ejected out of.

It's too complex and until there is a thorogh study I will vote for the status quo which is to stay in.