EU IOSS Signup

Discussion in 'International Business' started by Graham Wharton, Apr 20, 2021.

  1. Graham Wharton

    Graham Wharton UKBF Contributor

    50 25
    Response from European Commission via Federation of Small Businesses.

    I’ve received the below response from the European Commission:

    The new rules on VAT ecommerce (Directive (EU) 2017/2455 as regards certain value added tax obligations for supplies of services and distance sales of goods) will come into force on 1 July 2021. To make use of the special scheme for distance sales of goods imported from third territories or third countries, traders established in third territories or third countries must appoint an intermediary established in the European Union as the person liable for payment of the VAT under the IOSS.

    Indeed, pursuant to Article 369m of the VAT Directive, there is no need to appoint such an intermediary if the trader is established in a country with which the Union has concluded an agreement on mutual assistance similar in scope to Council Directive 2010/24/EU and Regulation (EU) No 904/2010.

    However, for the full implementation of Article 369 m, the Commission shall establish the list of third countries with which the Union has concluded an agreement on administrative cooperation and recovery assistance, similar in scope to the legislation in place among the Member States. That is why the Commission has proposed a Council Decision with the list of such countries which is currently in the process of adoption. The adoption of the decision is foreseen by the entry into force of the new VAT rules (at the latest by the end of June).

    We will be in a position to provide you with more information after the adoption procedure is finalised.

    So, essentially, we are waiting for the EU to approve that draft Council Decision referenced above before Member States will have absolute certainty that UK firms won’t require an intermediary. This might explain the response from the Irish tax office.

    If that seems a slightly circuitous way round to you, then you’re not alone(!).

    We’ll keep an eye on progress of the Council Decision, and I’ll be sure to let you know regarding future developments. I hope this is helpful.

    So looks like we have to hang fire for now. Once the EU have established and published the Article 369m list of 3rd countries that dont need intermediaries, then things might start to move. Depends on how quickly after that list is published, that the systems in each of the member states websites will be updated to allow us to sign up. I would hope that the Irish Revenue and Swedish Tax Office websites would be the first ones to go as I believe it is only Norway and the UK that are on this Article 369m List. I'll keep this post updated with any info I get.
     
    Posted: May 7, 2021 By: Graham Wharton Member since: Apr 20, 2021
    #21
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  2. Graham Wharton

    Graham Wharton UKBF Contributor

    50 25
    "Member States may not oblige non-EU suppliers to appoint a tax representative to use the non-Union scheme (Article 204 of the VAT Directive)."

    Also note that references to the Union and Non-Union Scheme don't apply to people shipping goods to the EU. People supplying goods need to sign up for the IOSS (Import One Stop Shop) Scheme. The Non-Union scheme is for UK businesses supplying digital services to the EU and is part of the existing MOSS (Mini One Stop Shop) scheme, which will be renamed to the OSS (One Stop Shop) Scheme. Urghhhh.... Too many acronyms. Your point applies to all schemes, but its important to get the the right scheme when you register.

    Searching for "eu the new oss schemes taxation customs union" in google, first result gives a good summary of how the schemes overlap
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2021
    Posted: May 7, 2021 By: Graham Wharton Member since: Apr 20, 2021
    #22
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  3. schmexit

    schmexit UKBF Contributor

    101 17
    @Graham Wharton - thanks so much for that! At least that explains the conflicting information. What a mess!

    Yes, please do keep us updated if you hear any news.

    By the way, would Ireland be the best/easiest choice for IOSS registration?
     
    Posted: May 7, 2021 By: schmexit Member since: May 7, 2021
    #23
  4. JPMiddleton

    JPMiddleton UKBF Enthusiast

    323 64
    Posted: May 10, 2021 By: JPMiddleton Member since: Aug 18, 2011
    #24
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  5. Ty_123

    Ty_123 UKBF Newcomer

    8 0
    Hi there,

    I know we're all waiting for an updated list of countries which, the Union has concluded an agreement on mutual assistance similar in scope to Council Directive 2010/24/EU and Regulation (EU) No 904/2010. To see if the UK is in the new list.

    But does anyone know if there is a published list already of established countries?

    Thank you for your help.
     
    Posted: May 19, 2021 By: Ty_123 Member since: May 19, 2021
    #25
  6. Ty_123

    Ty_123 UKBF Newcomer

    8 0
    Is it this list?

    Chart of signatures and ratifications of Treaty 127
     
    Posted: May 19, 2021 By: Ty_123 Member since: May 19, 2021
    #26
  7. Nathan89

    Nathan89 UKBF Newcomer

    5 2
    Has anyone signed up for IOSS yet? It's nearly July 1st, there doesn't seem to be any way to do it, I have tried the irish website like others have said when you go through it's about the vat one stop shop not the import OSS
     
    Posted: May 19, 2021 By: Nathan89 Member since: May 19, 2021
    #27
  8. romeo b

    romeo b UKBF Contributor

    100 22
    This is extremely frustrating and going to cause even more problems than exist already.

    We're small business, not UK-vat reg'd, but being told we need to do the IOSS sign up.

    The IOSS place (Ireland) told us this just now:

    ----
    VAT registration is not a determining factor for the OSS / IOSS schemes and, unlike domestic stipulations, no thresholds apply. In that regard, all goods / services sold B2C to the EU are to be declared.

    As you are shipping goods, either the Union OSS scheme and / or the Import (IOSS) scheme can be registered for.

    If you are shipping goods intra-EU then you may register for theUnion VAT OSSscheme In the first instance in a Member State in which you have an establishment or, otherwise, in the Member State in which the goods are based.

    If you are shipping goods from the UK or another third country to the EU you may register for theImport (IOSS)scheme. Goods must be in consignments of a value not greater than €150 and registration can be in any Member State in which the business has an establishment.

    Please note, however,that if the business has no establishment in the EU, it must register indirectly viaan entity (appointed by the business) that has an establishment in the chosen Member State. For IRL, that entity must also have a Revenue-issued Tax Advisory Identifier Number (TAIN) before they apply to register as an intermediary. The intermediary will then submit the application on the business’s behalf.
    ----

    So we need to find someone Irish-based to do it? Is this the way forward for every small business just to send £10-20 items to France, Spain and Germany? It's utterly ridiculous and just kills everything.

    EDIT: What's the deal with Zero-rating stuff too? Would that stop all our customers with the VAT issue? It's super confusing for a normal person who ships small goods to understand. HMRC say things sent via post is zero rated. Man this is confusing.
     
    Posted: May 19, 2021 By: romeo b Member since: May 17, 2021
    #28
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  9. schmexit

    schmexit UKBF Contributor

    101 17
    It is 100% ridiculous. Small businesses are left in the lurch with no clear answers or guidance.
     
    Posted: May 19, 2021 By: schmexit Member since: May 7, 2021
    #29
  10. Nathan89

    Nathan89 UKBF Newcomer

    5 2
    Agreed it is frustrating, we already have VAT numbers for 6 other countries so we may be able to signup through them, Ireland would be the best one to do it with because of the language advantage however we aren't registered for VAT there

    why doesn't the EU just make a standard portal and take all the money directly instead of messing around
     
    Posted: May 19, 2021 By: Nathan89 Member since: May 19, 2021
    #30
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  11. schmexit

    schmexit UKBF Contributor

    101 17
    The EU are not doing a great job with this, but I really blame the UK government. They should have thought about small businesses more when negotiating the deal we have, and they should be providing more guidance right now.
     
    Posted: May 19, 2021 By: schmexit Member since: May 7, 2021
    #31
  12. Nathan89

    Nathan89 UKBF Newcomer

    5 2
    I don't think it's just small business though, i've seen a lot of big businesses no longer willing to export to the EU on their websites either the market was too small or they just didn't think it was cost effective to manage it

    I think the EU are looking more at the marketplaces than sellers, probably accounts for 50% or more of the sales
     
    Posted: May 19, 2021 By: Nathan89 Member since: May 19, 2021
    #32
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  13. schmexit

    schmexit UKBF Contributor

    101 17
    That's true. If big businesses are struggling, what are the rest of us supposed to do?
     
    Posted: May 19, 2021 By: schmexit Member since: May 7, 2021
    #33
  14. romeo b

    romeo b UKBF Contributor

    100 22
    I've asked the Irish tax office, Royal Mail, HMRC, eBay and nobody has the same answer and rarely reply properly anyway.

    How are we even meant to continue trading with Europe when it's in this state of affairs?

    To say I am concerned is an understatement, given 70% of our trade is sending stuff to France, Spain, Portugal, Germany etc.

    As said there should really just be a central portal and anyone can go there, register, and it's handled.

    I'm just waiting really but not sure what for. Totally in limbo right now.
     
    Posted: May 19, 2021 By: romeo b Member since: May 17, 2021
    #34
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  15. schmexit

    schmexit UKBF Contributor

    101 17
    Same situation here. Hoping that Ireland will recognise that there's no need for a fiscal rep and we can register there. Also hoping that Royal Mail will be ready for IOSS by July. Not sure what else I can do in the meantime.
     
    Posted: May 19, 2021 By: schmexit Member since: May 7, 2021
    #35
  16. akford91

    akford91 UKBF Newcomer

    2 1
    I'm not entirely sure why the Irish Revenue Commissions are advising you must apply for OSS or IOSS if you are sending goods B2C as the EU's guidance titled "Importation and Exportation of Low Value Consignments – VAT E-Commerce Package "Guidance For Mss and Trade"" clearly states on page eight:

    Unfortunately, as a new user I'm unable to post a link to this document. However, if you type "iOSS mandatory" into Google, it's the first link which is shown with the above quote.
     
    Posted: May 19, 2021 By: akford91 Member since: May 19, 2021
    #36
  17. romeo b

    romeo b UKBF Contributor

    100 22
    They said in a second email to me, when I mentioned about conflicting information regarding holding off registering and what's been mentioned on here about it not being required if we (UK) end up on this previously mentioned magic list of countries:

    ---
    It’s a matter for businesses themselves as to when they register for the scheme and IRL, like other interested parties, awaits the outcome of the process highlighted below.

    In the absence of same, the current requirement is that, Norway being an exception, a non-EU business that does not have an establishment in the EU must engage an intermediary for IOSS purposes.
    ----


    So, it sounds like they're just saying it's going to be required as nothing exists *yet*, but if it's decided we don't need to appoint people, we can just apply as normal on our own behalf.

    It doesn't actually solve the problem though.

    I'm also trying to get to grips with the "zero rated" VAT side of things; HMRC says:

    HMRC says: VAT is a tax levied on goods and services consumed in the UK. When goods are exported they are ‘consumed’ outside the UK and to impose VAT on such goods would be contrary to the purpose of the tax. Therefore, the supply of exported goods is zero-rated provided the conditions in this notice are met.

    A zero-rated VAT supply is one which is subject to VAT but where the VAT is at 0%.

    It's extremely confusing and we're pretty much just relying on people talking in common sense rather than riddles at the moment, mainly on here from what we're taking advice from.

    If anyone can get to grips with the Zero rating and explain it like I'm 5 that would be appreciated!
     
    Posted: May 19, 2021 By: romeo b Member since: May 17, 2021
    #37
  18. schmexit

    schmexit UKBF Contributor

    101 17
    Of course, IOSS is not mandatory, but it allows for a much smoother experience for EU customers. So most businesses sending to the EU will want to register - but not if a fiscal rep is required, which is the main issue here.
     
    Posted: May 20, 2021 By: schmexit Member since: May 7, 2021
    #38
  19. akford91

    akford91 UKBF Newcomer

    2 1
    I wasn't questioning that most businesses would like to register for IOSS. However, I was only pointing out that if the Irish Revenue Commissioners are misadvising people about the rules of applying for OSS and IOSS (in this case, stating it's mandatory when it's not) then it highlights what a mess the OSS and IOSS system is and how the Irish Revenue Commissioners don't seem to have the correct information either.
     
    Posted: May 20, 2021 By: akford91 Member since: May 19, 2021
    #39
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  20. schmexit

    schmexit UKBF Contributor

    101 17
    I think we can all agree on one thing: It's a complete mess!
     
    Posted: May 20, 2021 By: schmexit Member since: May 7, 2021
    #40