EU IOSS Signup

[JPMiddleton]

I have been told by someone at VAT-digital.com that the UK IOSS 'portal' is likely to be a few months away, much closer to the end of the year.

VAT-Digital.com is offering a flat fee of £1495 per year (including monthly filing and registration) but will not be starting until August 1st. This is apparently because many countries are not ready to begin accepting applications, so they chose Poland - which is accepting applications from July 1st only.

Taxamo does look like a good short term solution.

 

[schmexit]

I have been told by someone at VAT-digital.com that the UK IOSS 'portal' is likely to be a few months away, much closer to the end of the year.

VAT-Digital.com is offering a flat fee of £1495 per year (including monthly filing and registration) but will not be starting until August 1st. This is apparently because many countries are not ready to begin accepting applications, so they chose Poland - which is accepting applications from July 1st only.

Taxamo does look like a good short term solution.

Thanks for that. Ireland is accepting applications but require a fiscal rep.

 

[BrexitLou]

Gov.uk have just announced their own IOSS + OSS portal - but this won't be ready until July 1st.

I can't post the link as I am new here and have been stopped in case it is spam. content.govdelivery / accounts etc etc.

Appears to be new rules for ecommerce from UK to NI which seem odd/ need further clarification. UK so badly unprepared for this at every level.

 

[schmexit]

There's a forum on the HMRC website!

https://community.hmrc.gov.uk/forums/customerforums/vat/c14fc8ab-1c79-eb11-8ced-00155d975a0f

 

[DefinitelyMaybeUK]

There's a forum on the HMRC website!

Reassuring to see HMRC take 3 tries to answer the OP question and finally declining

 

[BrexitLou]

Yes saw that also

Reassuring to see HMRC take 3 tries to answer the OP question and finally declining

Down the rabbit hole that is HMRC website...

 

[schmexit]

Reassuring to see HMRC take 3 tries to answer the OP question and finally declining

Indeed. But it's worth a try!

 

[JPMiddleton]

Gov.uk have just announced their own IOSS + OSS portal - but this won't be ready until July 1st.

I can't post the link as I am new here and have been stopped in case it is spam. content.govdelivery / accounts etc etc.

Appears to be new rules for ecommerce from UK to NI which seem odd/ need further clarification. UK so badly unprepared for this at every level.

Can you post the full link without the dots? Thanks for sharing!

 

[BrexitLou]

Can you post the full link without the dots? Thanks for sharing!

This is a browser versions of an email update from hmrc - a list I am subscribed to (one of many!!)
Let me try again (* where there should be dots) :

www*content*govdelivery*com/accounts/UKHMRCED/bulletins/2e42e3e

 

[BrexitLou]

Thanks for that. Ireland is accepting applications but require a fiscal rep.

I got refused from applying via Ireland for two different reasons (I don't think either responses knew I had been responded to already)

1/ If you intended to apply for the Import One Stop Shop (where your goods will be dispatched from the UK) the current situation for UK traders is that Norway is the only third country with which the Union has concluded an agreement on mutual assistance therefore, it is necessary for UK customers to appoint an EU established intermediary to register for IOSS and use the scheme at this time.
Negotiations are ongoing with the EU Commission and the UK so this may change in the future.

2/ Sorry: non-Union VAT OSS scheme only applies to the B2C supplies of services in the EU (not goods)

Will just have to wait for UK to get their portal set up! (govt, scrambling behind the scenes to catch up to policy.)

 

[schmexit]

This is a browser versions of an email update from hmrc - a list I am subscribed to (one of many!!)
Let me try again (* where there should be dots) :

www*content*govdelivery*com/accounts/UKHMRCED/bulletins/2e42e3e

http://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/UKHMRCED/bulletins/2e42e3e

 

[schmexit]

Oh:

"For traders in the UK, only those who operate under the terms of the Northern Ireland Protocol, are VAT-registered and sell goods that total more than £8,818 (€10,000) per year to consumers in EU Countries from Northern Ireland, are eligible to register for the One Stop Shop Union Scheme."

 

[JPMiddleton]

Oh:

"For traders in the UK, only those who operate under the terms of the Northern Ireland Protocol, are VAT-registered and sell goods that total more than £8,818 (€10,000) per year to consumers in EU Countries from Northern Ireland, are eligible to register for the One Stop Shop Union Scheme."

That's OSS, not IOSS (import One Stope Shop)

 

[JPMiddleton]

As far as I can tell it still says the same as the EU VAT page on HMRC site, basically it won't be ready in time for July 1st. I can't see anywhere that says it will be ready on July 1st, or am I missing something?

 

[schmexit]

That's OSS, not IOSS (import One Stope Shop)

Ah, I see. Phew!

 

[BrexitLou]

As far as I can tell it still says the same as the EU VAT page on HMRC site, basically it won't be ready in time for July 1st. I can't see anywhere that says it will be ready on July 1st, or am I missing something?

On that link I shared it states "The One Stop Shop will be available on GOV.‌‌UK for businesses to register from 1‌‌ July‌‌ ‌2021, additional guidance about this will follow." Whether this happens or not is another thing!

 

[DontAsk]

On that link I shared it states "The One Stop Shop will be available on GOV.‌‌UK for businesses to register from 1‌‌ July‌‌ ‌2021, additional guidance about this will follow." Whether this happens or not is another thing!

Perhaps "Available to register" != "Fully functional" but allows a box to be ticked on some mandarin's desk somewhere

 

[RickieSee]

Ah, Brexit. The gift that keeps on giving.

 

[David Lovell]

There’s an update from Avalara in the last 2 days which says Italy’s IOSS registration is available and U.K. registered companies DO NOT need an EU representative / intermediary like Ireland is requiring. Anyone had any luck going down this route?

 

[Morning]

I put my registration request in with Italy on the 2nd of April, though haven't heard anything since then. They told me that they 'thought' UK sellers wouldn't need an intermediary because of the VAT assistance agreement between the UK and EU, but that was before Ireland got the update from the EU saying UK sellers would need an intermediary. I'll email the Italian IOSS help to see what they say.

 

[David Lovell]

I put my registration request in with Italy on the 2nd of April, though haven't heard anything since then. They told me that they 'thought' UK sellers wouldn't need an intermediary because of the VAT assistance agreement between the UK and EU, but that was before Ireland got the update from the EU saying UK sellers would need an intermediary. I'll email the Italian IOSS help to see what they say.

I'm already VAT registered in Italy so have a VAT number there. I will try and find out the process.

 

[Morning]

I meant I put in my registration request for the IOSS through the Italian IOSS portal, not for Italian VAT registration. It's pretty straightforward.

 

[schmexit]

"Royal Mail IOSS Advice: Enter number into field that doesn’t exist":

https://tamebay.com/2021/06/royal-mail-ioss-advice-enter-number-into-field-that-doesnt-exist.html

 

[DefinitelyMaybeUK]

"Royal Mail IOSS Advice: Enter number into field that doesn’t exist":

To be fair to RM, the IOSS field *has* been in place for some months, albeit badly named. They have always said you need to use one of their system integrations such as click & drop, pro shipper etc, presumably so they can track you down if there is an issue with the IOSS number and/or pre-payment. The multiple trading name settings is not necessary a bad thing. I can't see over the counter IOSS at your local post office being available without some verified sender mechanism being in place.

 

[nick34785]

Oh:

"For traders in the UK, only those who operate under the terms of the Northern Ireland Protocol, are VAT-registered and sell goods that total more than £8,818 (€10,000) per year to consumers in EU Countries from Northern Ireland, are eligible to register for the One Stop Shop Union Scheme."

Does these amounts refer to the past year or does this counter start from July 1st?
The NI Protocol has only been in force since January I'm not sure how to we should calculate our past sales.

 

[Morning]

I guess the protocol only started in January, but before that NI was still in the transition period and fully in the EU VAT area, so I doubt it's a counter reset.

 

[romeo b]

Me again. Ok so do we think the best option, for us (non-VAT reg'd UK biz selling on eBay and also own website) is the following:

eBay: Do nothing, as eBay will sort the VAT collection out, and pass their IOSS no. to our dispatch portal (this sounds correct to date).

Own website: Add in all the VAT rates on a per-country basis, and have UK at 0%, and then collect the VAT that way and make a note of it, and then we can owe it HMRC when their portal comes live? Set UK at 0% so we don't collect UK VAT (we're not VAT reg'd). This way our shopping cart has the customer pay the applicable VAT rate for their country (to us) and we can deal with it after, as long as it's logged.

EDIT: Actually, scrap all that, as we won't have an IOSS number to tell customs it is cleared. Grrrrrrrrrr. Looking likely we'll have to just tell EU customers stuff will get excessive fees or we should withdraw EU dispatch for now. Most of our stuff is <£20, but I'm guessing due to the VAT owing it'll be "uncleared" so fees will apply there for everyone.

Getting close to the deadline now. Keeping tabs on this thread mainly.

 

[Morning]

You can't collect EU VAT on your website unless you're registered with the IOSS. You can sell to EU customers through your website, but the postal services will collect the VAT and a handling fee from the customer prior to delivery.

 

[romeo b]

You can't collect EU VAT on your website unless you're registered with the IOSS. You can sell to EU customers through your website, but the postal services will collect the VAT and a handling fee from the customer prior to delivery.

Yeah, amended/edited my post after. So I'm basically hoping HMRC get something in place to obtain an IOSS no and collect the VAT prior to end of the month, and leave me time to doctor my checkout experience to suit. Should just be a case of turning VAT on at the cart stage and put UK at zero I guess. But we'll wait and see. From what they say on the E-Commerce/VAT Package page on HMRC, it doesn't look like it'll be ready by 1st July.

Royal Mail are also meant to be developing their PDDP (Postal Delivery Duty Paid) services to coincide with 1st July so also waiting for that.. sounds like you can collect VAT / send DDP by using RM's IOSS no.. but nothing crystal clear yet on how this will work. Not long now.

Terribly painful experience this.

 

[Morning]

Should just be a case of turning VAT on at the cart stage and put UK at zero I guess. But we'll wait and see.

Not necessarily. If and when you register for the IOSS, your shopping cart system will need to be able to stop charging EU VAT at over 150 euro. I assume most systems will be updated but there's no guarantee.

I wouldn't bet on HMRC getting anything in place before the 1st either. They've said that won't be the case, and haven't said when it will eventually happen. And even when that happens, the IOSS isn't exactly straightforward. I wouldn't want to sign up unless I fully understood it, and there are still loads of things that I need clarification on, and to work out how it will all work practically.

Have you looked at Taxamo Assure that Royal Mail are promoting? It needs to be integrated into your shop, but might be an option. In theory, it's effectively like selling through Ebay in regards to the EU VAT implications, but your own shop is used as the catalogue. Unfortunately, my ecommerce platform says they won't integrate it, having chosen Zonos instead. I'm not sure Zonos offers an exact equivalent, but we'll see.

Edit: reply was to the unedited comment.

 

[schmexit]

Yeah, amended/edited my post after. So I'm basically hoping HMRC get something in place to obtain an IOSS no and collect the VAT prior to end of the month, and leave me time to doctor my checkout experience to suit. Should just be a case of turning VAT on at the cart stage and put UK at zero I guess. But we'll wait and see. From what they say on the E-Commerce/VAT Package page on HMRC, it doesn't look like it'll be ready by 1st July.

Royal Mail are also meant to be developing their PDDP (Postal Delivery Duty Paid) services to coincide with 1st July so also waiting for that.. sounds like you can collect VAT / send DDP by using RM's IOSS no.. but nothing crystal clear yet on how this will work. Not long now.

Terribly painful experience this.

From what I understand, Royal Mail's PDDP will be quite expensive, with fees of £10-20 per parcel (PDDP handling fee).

https://www.royalmail.com/business/international/guide/delivered-duties-paid-ioss

EDIT: It seems this will actually be 50p per parcel

"For IOSS there will not be any charges for you or your recipient in the vast majority of cases – although a few of the national posts / parcel operators may charge a very low fee.

For PDDP there will be a 50p per item handling fee payable alongside the VAT and duty we charge back to you."

 

[romeo b]

EDIT: It seems this will actually be 50p per parcel

"For IOSS there will not be any charges for you or your recipient in the vast majority of cases – although a few of the national posts / parcel operators may charge a very low fee.

For PDDP there will be a 50p per item handling fee payable alongside the VAT and duty we charge back to you."

Sounds like an option - just can't get my head around how that works from a point of me charging the customer. What's the duty they charge? All my stuff is less than £50 without fail. 1 in 100 times something is over £150.

They need to somehow ask me if the VAT's already been taken. I guess if customer pays it me, and RM debit it from me, it's back to how it should be. Less my 50p fee.

As long as it's all clear what I am being charged/what I owe for a transaction.

EG: someone buying an item off our website for £20 plus delivery to France for example.

Customer pays the VAT and that's it? It's cleared? So they pay me the VAT, I remit the VAT back to RM, and they take 50p for the trouble. But what's the duty? Or is this for stuff over £150 they are mentioning? <sigh>

So: Am I to use the PDDP services for <£50 items then? Customer pays me the VAT, I pay it back to RM, plus a 50p fee, and then send the item using their PDDP service (whatever that cost may be)? Duty won't come into it as it's a low value item?

I was on the HMRC Export/VAT seminar thing last week and everyone was just asking about IOSS but it wasn't covered at all. I am overly simplifying things in my posts but feel I need to so that I can actually get my head around the basics of how to continue UK to EU / overseas trade without problems. There is a lot of stuff out there but conflicting information and contradictory advice. Added in all the extra intermediaries and services being offered, when really if we can decipher the basic courier (RM) process it will be easy to continue.

 

[Morning]

There isn't just one Royal Mail process. That's why the linked page that Schmexit posted is so long!

Royal Mail suggests you integrate a 'landed cost calculator' so you collect the correct taxes if you go the PDDP route. If you use PDDP, Royal Mail will clear the item for you, then bill you what they paid in tax, plus their fee.

It might have helped if they called their PDDP option 'Postal Delivery Taxes Paid' since duty doesn't kick in until 150 Euro.

 

[romeo b]

There isn't just one Royal Mail process. That's why the linked page that Schmexit posted is so long!

Royal Mail suggests you integrate a 'landed cost calculator' so you collect the correct taxes if you go the PDDP route. If you use PDDP, Royal Mail will clear the item for you, then bill you what they paid in tax, plus their fee.

It might have helped if they called their PDDP option 'Postal Delivery Taxes Paid' since duty doesn't kick in until 150 Euro.

The problem is understanding the process and IOSS side of it.

Is this right then, or horrendously wrong?

Example:
- French Customer buys £20 item on our website, plus £10 shipping.
= Total cost: £30, tax at 20% (France rate) = £6
= Total cost inc French VAT: £36
= Customer pays me £36. (this is what's referred to as the "Landed Cost" and doesn't attract duty?)

(this assumes that I have edited our website/cart to accommodate the EU country VAT rate at checkout)

So then I use the RM "PDDP" Service to send this item.

Royal Mail charge me the VAT (£6), their fee (50p), plus the actual service cost (tbc, let's say £10 to make it easy).

So other than the 50p and cost of the actual service I know where I'm at, right?

Then, I'd dispatch the item using the PDDP Service, presumably something which will start to show in our Click&Drop shipping services, declaring the RM IOSS number (tbc), saving me having to go down any IOSS manual registration and intermediary involvement?

Does that sound right? I can't tell you how many people are asking versions of this and being given runarounds. It's impossible to get a straight answer!

Bear in mind I have asked RM this, had no reply, the account manage hasn't replied, and the customer service seem to know nothing about what to do.

Appreciate your time and the responses.

 

[JPMiddleton]

PDDP (not sure why they're not just calling it DDP like every other carrier) and IOSS registration are two totally different things.

You won't need to register for IOSS at all if you use PDDP for ALL your parcels, which at only 50p per parcel for handling, is looking quite attractive.

 

[JPMiddleton]

I have just noticed this though on Royal Mail's page.

Destinations

IOSS will be available to all EU destinations.

PDDP is dependent on the overseas delivery Post or partner being ready to accept and process. More destinations will be added in due course.

 

[Morning]

You won't need to register for IOSS at all if you use PDDP for ALL your parcels, which at only 50p per parcel for handling, is looking quite attractive.

It does sound good, doesn't it. When they first announced it in Jan, I'm pretty sure it was a 5k annual spend threshold for use. But that might have changed; the fees weren't 50p then. And as noted, it wasn't advertised as being available to every EU state.

 

[romeo b]

Thanks for the replies, it's really helping!

So what I wrote as an example sounds about right then, from an "own website checkout experience" point of view? (Not eBay / marketplace etc?)

My other query was with the PDDP service as. whole, and would I be expected to be using that for eBay sales too now? EG: Every item we send, whether website or eBay, would have to be sent using the PDDP service?

I had thought that as eBay had collected the tax and we're using their IOSS number for eBay transactions, then we can send using existing Royal Mail services?

But via our own website, where RM do the tax collecting side of it, we'd need to use their PDDP service, with a 50p surcharge?

Is the surcharge for using RM to remit tax essentially? In which case I don't need to use PDDP for eBay sales (but still use an RM service, such as Large Letter - Tracked/Signed etc)?

(Trying to establish if the eBay sales would also fall under the 50p PDDP charge, given eBay are doing the tax collecting/remitting at their end..)

 

[JPMiddleton]

All marketplaces will collect and remit tax on sales regardless of your VAT status, as long as the value is under €150.

Over and PDDP via RM becomes useful.

 

[JPMiddleton]

I meant I put in my registration request for the IOSS through the Italian IOSS portal, not for Italian VAT registration. It's pretty straightforward.

Do you have a link for this on the Italian Revenue site, i've been struggling to find it.