Employment Law Or Health & Safety Questions

Discussion in 'Yorkshire & Humberside' started by Anon2734, May 5, 2017.

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  1. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    Karl is an expert on employment law. On another thread I advised a forum member that they could pay annualised salary with varying hours in different months and quoted the guidance that Karl mentioned.

    Karl asked you for the regulations that may allow this to happen as you are a professional and he had not got the time to look for the regs. You denied, and apparently continue to deny that this can be done. I have supplied the reference for the law on this.

    Doesn't Peninsula expect its advisors to know the law, or at least be able to find it when given the details of it?
     
    Posted: May 5, 2017 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #21
  2. Anon2734

    Anon2734 UKBF Contributor Free Member

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    Excuse me throughout my post I have said it can be done through contractual agreement.
    Karl was also unclear in what he was asking for and why.
    As we are the top uk employment law company I would think I have the correct knowledge.
    I also have advised scenarios that could occur in implimenting such a structure.
    It could be exploited and arouse suspicion of wrong doing.
    In addition create a complex payroll structure which could be simplified.
    I dont believe any part of my advice is not factual in fact I am certain.
    Im also not getting into a protracted argument with somebody clearly trying to discredit others for their own gain.
    I will end the conversation there.
    My question is for people who may have an issue ,not experts who cannot answer there own questions.
     
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: Anon2734 Member since: May 5, 2017
    #22
  3. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

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    I suggest that you have a look at other threads in the forums, and try to understand how UKBF works.
     
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #23
  4. Anon2734

    Anon2734 UKBF Contributor Free Member

    31 0
    Im sure I also have the accumen to see how a thread works.
    Perhaps you should view our knowledge centre on our website its free to view and obtain answers.
    I as I said will end the conversation there im here to help business people with issues as I do full time day in day out.
    Please dont make silly statements when reading my post its clear I havent denied possibility of annual pay structure in a contract.
    I have however given more practical solutions and pointed out pitfalls.
    Which coincidentally I discuss daily with business owners along with many other issues.
     
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: Anon2734 Member since: May 5, 2017
    #24
  5. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    9,314 2,367
    Yes, dear.
     
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #25
  6. Anon2734

    Anon2734 UKBF Contributor Free Member

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    A final note im also extremely successful now if any business owners require help please ask.
     
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: Anon2734 Member since: May 5, 2017
    #26
  7. Newchodge

    Newchodge UKBF Big Shot Free Member

    9,314 2,367
    [Sigh]
     
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: Newchodge Member since: Nov 8, 2012
    #27
  8. The Byre

    The Byre UKBF Ace Free Member

    7,067 2,748
    OK, I want to make what I believe is an important point here -

    You are setting yourself up here as an expert in employment law. That implies very clearly that you are a lawyer, i.e. a solicitor or barrister and, moreover, a specialist in employment law.

    So far, so good. But here's my personal gripe - the law of the land here is only written in English. Every bit of law, tort, cases of precedent, judgements, bills, you name it and it is written in English (with bits of Latin and derivatives of other languages, such as German and French) and the entire structure of our legal system relies on the clear and correct use of the English language.

    In the same way that an accountant has to be numerate and a welder has to be able to weld, a lawyer has to have a full and impeccable command of the English language. It is the English language that places the tools of the law into the hands of any lawyer working in the United Kingdom.

    I do not expect a welder to have a perfect command of English, any more than I expect a lawyer to be able to make a perfect bead with a MIG-welding machine. Language is to the lawyer, what a welding machine is to a welder, wood is to a carpenter and numbers to an accountant.

    Contracts are written in English and ambiguous or sloppy drafting is truly the bane of those who have to unravel many a sticky situation. Poor drafting comes from poor language and poor language comes from poor thought.

    It is one of the many tasks of an employment lawyer, to put the often muddled and unclear desires of employer and employee into clear and understandable language and at the same time, ensure that all parties comply with existing legislation.

    He or she does this in the United Kingdom by using the English language.

    Yet hardly a post of yours is without a grammatical mistake - for example, using they're, their and there correctly. A lawyer who cannot use language correctly, is like an accountant who cannot use numbers.
     
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: The Byre Member since: Aug 13, 2013
    #28
  9. billmccallum1957

    billmccallum1957 UKBF Ace Full Member

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    Can I ask the OP a question?

    How does being a "Business Sales Executive" qualify you to give Employment Law or H&S advice?
     
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: billmccallum1957 Member since: Feb 11, 2016
    #29
  10. Employment Law Clinic

    Employment Law Clinic UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

    3,158 1,488

    I have to admit, if I hadn’t pushed the issue I would have taken

    as meaning the “pay structure would need to change” – a suggestion that it couldn’t be done as proposed.

    Apologies for being unclear in what I was asking for, and why. What I meant by

    is that in what was a demanding day I couldn’t think what the Regulations were, and was taking you up on the invitation to ask any question, to help identify what turns out to be regulation 17 onwards of the NMW Regs 2015 – what I would think was similar to the sort of thing a tribunal might do: they may ask for help pointing to an infrequently used law, or even just the convenience of a page/paragraph number in Butterworths.

    This was an interesting point you raised, something I didn’t get the chance to get distracted by last night. But as you say, the care sector is a prime example, among the most recent cases for the latest case law for sleeping staff. And as you yourself say, in Focus Care Agency v Roberts the “UK’S (sic) top service provider” advised Focus, where staff received a sleepover allowance, and this meant their client was paying below the minimum (let alone contractual) wage. Perhaps a good example why the "top service provider" isn't always the best choice for employers.


    Karl Limpert
     
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: Employment Law Clinic Member since: Aug 10, 2009
    #30
  11. Anon2734

    Anon2734 UKBF Contributor Free Member

    31 0
    Questions answered in perfect legible english clear attempt to discredit me and my company with the slip in of a competitors name..
    When I say competitor???
    <removed>
    I think along with your ilegible posts you need to look at facts.
    Highlighting again...
    My comments were a contractual agreement for annual salary is fine..with a payroll over 12 months splitting the salary.
    This has been pre determined between employee and employer.
    In the case where the hours worked in a month fall below minimum wage this could cause an issue if reported or investigated.
    This could also become a method of exploitation by people trying to pay low wages.
    They could turn around and pay low excusing it on paying the employee for no hours work the next month.
    It would be more transparent to adjust payroll in line with hours worked per month.
    This would also be simpler to impliment and is used by 99% of businesses as a way of dividing a annual salary.
    The reason I mention sleepover allowance is it reflects advice we have had to give businesses who employed staff on lower than nmw rates while doing sleepovers in the care sector.
    It represents a very similar scenario of dividing salary across hours that left a shortfall below nmw rate.
    Read your comments back and tell me if you make sense?.
    I hope by me simplifying my text you now can see no ill advice and also that by presenting facts about my company people will not view either in a bad light.
    Which was clearly your intention so transparent in fact you slipped in another companies name.
    The first rule of legitimate business is not to attack competitors.
    I have reported your post and hope we dont speak again.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2017
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: Anon2734 Member since: May 5, 2017
    #31
  12. Anon2734

    Anon2734 UKBF Contributor Free Member

    31 0
    Yes I work within the sales division as such the first port of call for many people with issues.
    I undertake full training and have a huge legal team I work alongside.
    <removed>
    Not only are we the largest ,but widely considered and acknowledged within and outside the industry the best.
    I also forgot a comma..
    ????
    Ill bid you a good day.
    Enjoy speaking with site moderators in regard to your scathing attacks.
    Its also very clear my statements and advice are clear fact.
    Neither do I have the time or inclination for protracted arguments on a website it would display a lack of professionalism.
    However please dont insult me ,or a company I adore and know they are every bit as honest and dedicated as their fine standing and reputation.
    As is every member of its workforce.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2017
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: Anon2734 Member since: May 5, 2017
    #32
  13. Employment Law Clinic

    Employment Law Clinic UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

    3,158 1,488
    ...and a grave digger knows when the hole they’ve dug is deep enough.


    I’m not sure why it would be difficult for an employer to pay the same amount each month, or why a perfectly legal arrangement would be investigated. I guess the long week continues to stifle my thought process. Might have to take a day off tomorrow.
    And that’s why the regional forums are so popular – this is a regional-relevant thread, I guess.


    I’m sure whomever this point is addressed to will know too.



    Karl Limpert
     
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: Employment Law Clinic Member since: Aug 10, 2009
    #33
  14. Anon2734

    Anon2734 UKBF Contributor Free Member

    31 0
    The reason it may be investigated is prior you asked ,"if the pay in a month does not equal minimum wage rates for that pay period,owing to hours worked"
    For somebody looking at that pay period that could cause alarm and result in investigation.
    The reason it may arouse suspicion is some parties may, as a attempt to be dishonest.
    Pay below minimum wage and upon questioning utilise the idea they were going to pay the employer the rest next month for no hours work.
    Hence bringing pay upto minimum wage level.
    I think thats totally legible.
    Look below each post theres a report button.
    I was referring to defamotary statements towards me and my company.
    I think you know clearly what im stating is correct.
    The only reason I have continued my conversation today is I am not happy with a clear attempt to discredit us.
    I have reported it and I was referring to you.
    Now if you dont mind I have work to do.
     
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: Anon2734 Member since: May 5, 2017
    #34
  15. Employment Law Clinic

    Employment Law Clinic UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

    3,158 1,488
    [my emphasis]

    I didn’t know this. I’ve never heard anyone within or outside the industry to suggest this either. I must mix in the wrong circles.

    I must I admit, I don’t recognise the penultimate point in the quote – “fine standing”. But I need to get out more.


    Karl Limpert
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 15, 2017
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: Employment Law Clinic Member since: Aug 10, 2009
    #35
  16. Anon2734

    Anon2734 UKBF Contributor Free Member

    31 0
    In answer to your statements as with insurance legal protection is utilised as and when needed.
    We have over 35000 clients with a rate of 98% positive feedback.
    As for contractual terms a person buys a car for example or house.
    Over a period of years.
    They use the car for a while or house.
    In our case work closely with the company to ensure the correct contracts policies and procedures are in place in the business.
    A service coincidentally which would cost 3 times the amount upfront with a solicitor.
    As it does across a five year term.
    They a few months in decide oh I cant afford my car , my house etc.
    Does the company say oh its ok you can have it?.
    No they dont.
    We also have a excellent credit control department who frequently work with business owners in difficulty.
    They work fairly and commercially.
    Can I ask why its not necessary to have a legally compliant structure and policies and procedures within a business?
    Not necessary?
    This is why we also spend a lot of time working with new clients hit by tribunal and health and safety claims.
    For which by the way we also have a huge success rate.
    A person with so little knowledge of myself; our company or the industry by your own admission really shouldnt pass comments amounting to idiocy.
    Our clients access fantastic 24 hour fully indemnified legal advice ,they are fully insured against tribunal ,they are constantly updated on legislation.
    They also have all relevant documents contracts and policies updated to ensure legal compliance.
    They access management systems and training.
    I can also say are always happy to reccomend us 98% of 35000 cant be wrong.
    Is anything listed not necessary?
    I also missed audits ,risk assessments ,fire risk, accreditations to specialist industry bodies by sector.
    Such as chas ,refcom ,safe contractor in construction ,staying in that field cdm services
    Hr face 2 face involvement in individual cases.
    And much more.
    Anything unnecessary yet Karl ?
    We also have industry specific legal experts in medicine , the care sector ,education and support indeed many of the uks top schools ,universaties and colleges.
    Both private and academic.
    Karl know your facts and please refrain from any posts.
    You came with a question I answered with legible fact.
    Lets leave things there.
     
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: Anon2734 Member since: May 5, 2017
    #36
  17. Employment Law Clinic

    Employment Law Clinic UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

    3,158 1,488
    Hi,


    I don't want to be all Warren Beatty-vain here, but I think you're talking about me – although, despite your confidence, I don’t think you’ve quite displayed the acumen on how a thread works, as you didn't identify who "you" is.



    Are you suggesting that an employer couldn’t operate a payroll in total compliance with the law without raising alarm? And/or that an employer would be more sensible paying a different amount each month, with inconvenience for the employer, employee, and the payroll staff?



    I didn’t, and still don’t, think your point is totally legible, hence why I asked more than once. But I was only taking your invitation to ask a question, no intention to discredit anyone, only acknowledge my only limitations. (For reference, I’ve sought the views of other employment lawyers before on here. I know my clients (and peers) think I’m good, but sometimes I do have cause to check a detail or opinion in law, I can’t always be confident that I’ve always got it right… even though I do manage to.)



    Quite right too to report such behaviour. The moderators are good here, I never did see the offending post (despite perhaps writing it). And I don’t mind you excusing yourself at any time – we’re not on a live chat, so you’re free to return at your convenience.


    Karl Limpert
     
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: Employment Law Clinic Member since: Aug 10, 2009
    #37
  18. Employment Law Clinic

    Employment Law Clinic UKBF Big Shot Full Member - Verified Business

    3,158 1,488
    I don’t think we’re comparing apples with apples here, not even apples with pears.


    If I rent a house, and decide after a few months I don’t need it anymore, I can give up the tenancy. But if a self-employed employer closes their business, they can’t give up their liability to your company.



    I have knowledge of the industry, but didn’t realise you charge a third of what a solicitor would charge, and spread that cost over five years. You’re very competitive at those rates. (Or at least you would be, if that was true.)


    As for the rest of your spiel, I invite you to comment on a case I handled: http://employmentlawclinic.com/empl...nts-from-our-cases/prosser-v-saunders-bakery/, particularly the allegation that…

    “Before instructing Employment Law Clinic, the Respondents had received advice that they should attempt to settle the claim for £14,000, as the case was considered likely to be successful in all claims.”


    Now, the article I link to doesn’t identify the previous advisors. As I apparently don’t have knowledge of the industry, can I ask, do you think I should qualify the comments by posting the earlier advice (which was only given after the client was assured the company could & would defend all claims, and signed up for a lengthy contract that wasn’t cheaper than hiring a solicitor, so I guess it rules some firms out)?



    Karl Limpert
     
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: Employment Law Clinic Member since: Aug 10, 2009
    #38
  19. Anon2734

    Anon2734 UKBF Contributor Free Member

    31 0
    Karl you really do not make sense ,nobody gives up a purchase without costs.
    Its business and every business wants paying for giving a service.
    We are actually very fair but commercial with debtors.
    You cannot give a service away.
    Just for doing our original drawing up of legal documents a solicitor would charge 3 times our contractual costs for five years is fact.
    I havent got knowledge of the industry was
    your statement.
    I should get out more.
    I am now posted a link to a tribunal with nothing to do with me or my company.
    In my position coincidentally I am very often the first person a person would come to with a problem.
    I am on a daily basis advising companies and I have signed legal forms for this.
    I also live eat and breathe this I know my job.
     
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: Anon2734 Member since: May 5, 2017
    #39
  20. Anon2734

    Anon2734 UKBF Contributor Free Member

    31 0
    You actually by the way should respect client confidentiality and not publish any advice.
    You could end up with a law suit for disclosing information irregularly.
    Just to aid you.
    As you can for defamatory or slanderous statements.
     
    Posted: May 6, 2017 By: Anon2734 Member since: May 5, 2017
    #40
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