Drugs & Work

[devon439]

I currently have a employee working full-time for me in the hair and beauty sector. She has admitted to taking drugs which she says doesn't do during work - only out of work.

She was in possession of these tablets during work. We have talked to the individual about this, we feel her quality of work is not good and has a lot of non-returning customers. It's like she's in a trance-like world of her own. She does not talk to customers and therefore makes things very awkward between client and her.

She has been with us for eleven months and is under contract.

Just looking for some advice. Can I get rid of her and take on somebody else. How do I go about it?

 

[Bri]

Firstly it should be in her t&c's that drugs and alcohol, the use of or being under the influence of other than prescribed medication are not allowed in the workplace or any place designated by the owner as a place of work. Failure to abide by this is gross misconduct.You should be able to carry out random alcohol and drug tests, that should deter anybody.

Secondly, is the quality of her work really down to the use of drugs, could it be she's not that good at what she does and losing clients.

Either way she should be brought in for a disciplinary and given warnings about her behavoiur and monitored closely.

IMO I would sack her and get someone else if she's costing me money.But thats just me

 

[BizGurl]

At first I was thinking that if she takes drugs out of work then that's her own business and nothing to do with you... Until I read that she was found to have them in her possession at work.

I'm not an employment lawyer of anything, but don't you have some kind of set 'policies & procedures' that you follow? Some kind of disciplinary procedure?

If you've spoken to her than I would have thought that's some kind of first 'verbal' warning. Can you prove that it's the drugs affecting her work? Either way, if she was actually caught with drugs on her at work, than I guess that takes it to a more serious level, and may be reason enough to 'get rid'...

 

[Consistency]

We are in the Security and absolutely abhor drugs and their takers. I would go to a solicitor and seek legal advice on this. Better still I would go to the police and see if they can offer any help.

This person is likely to run down your business and a reputation sticks. It does not always matter how good you are and your other employees, a bad experience can mean a good customer never returning. My mother always said it can take 20 years to build up a good reputation but 20 seconds to build up a bad one. I believe that.

Even if she is taking drugs outside of work they can remain in the system and they are working under the influence. be this alcohol or drugs it is not ideal at all for the workplace.

This has never been experienced in our company but we are lucky for that and hope that we never due. Whether the drugs she is taking are legal highs or not her work is affected and that glazed eye look and unengaging stance is easily picked up on.

I am no legal expert but should we be in your position the drug taker would be sent home immediately and this would not be tolerated at all. Of course industries vary and some companies may not take a stance as we do and think that what they do in their own time is up their business but when they carry it into your business it is your business.

 

[devon439]

Thanks all for your messages. Can I simply get rid of her this week and take on somebody else or am I going to be landed in a whole load of legal issues?

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Thanks all for your messages. Can I simply get rid of her this week and take on somebody else or am I going to be landed in a whole load of legal issues?

Before hastily getting rid of her, you did need to set out exactly what actions you've taken. It's a disciplinary matter, and you need to follow due process.

Does your disciplinary policy mention anything about drugs?
What discussions or warnings have you previously given (verbal warnings should always be advised in writing, otherwise it will be considered informal)?
What's the notice period?


I agree with Bri & others that you should sack them, but you need to ensure you do it properly, or you will end up with loads of legal issues.


Karl Limpert

 

[estwig]

If the girl has been with you 11 months, I assume she has not always been like this.

Being a youngster, maybe she is having a hard time at home or a hard time with life in general, perhaps you as a responsible employer could try speaking to her, and offering to help. Instaed of being so quick to condemn and look for ways to get rid, you could look for ways to help the girl.

 

[Leyla]

Hi All

If the girl has been with you 11 months, I assume she has not always been like this.

Being a youngster, maybe she is having a hard time at home or a hard time with life in general, perhaps you as a responsible employer could try speaking to her, and offering to help. Instaed of being so quick to condemn and look for ways to get rid, you could look for ways to help the girl.

Yes, as an employer/manager you have to be able to nurture your staff.

It's the employees/people that make the business work.

Everyone has those 'testing' times in their lives.

Perhaps ask advice from outside, as to best advise/help your employee.
If you carry out random drug testing, maybe the next step is to let her know where she can get further advice/ help with her issues.

Hope this helps .

Good luck, x

 

[cmcp]

yeah before you get all drug tests and gross misconduct on her have a word again, voicing your concern.

on the flip side it's also important for you to know if she is tanning pills or powder even small amounts will leave her with an almighty come down up til tuesday, which isn't going to be much fun for your customers.

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Being a youngster, maybe she is having a hard time at home or a hard time with life in general, perhaps you as a responsible employer could try speaking to her, and offering to help. Instaed of being so quick to condemn and look for ways to get rid, you could look for ways to help the girl.

Everyone has those 'testing' times in their lives.

Perhaps ask advice from outside, as to best advise/help your employee.

yeah before you get all drug tests and gross misconduct on her have a word again, voicing your concern.

on the flip side it's also important for you to know if she is tanning pills or powder even small amounts will leave her with an almighty come down up til tuesday, which isn't going to be much fun for your customers.

If it was simply a performance issue - not working efficiently during her "almighty" downs - I'd agree that offering support as part of a programme to address the performance would be appropriate. But given that she's bringing these drugs into work, I think it's more serious, and more than justifies a focus on disciplinary action.


Karl Limpert

 

[vvaannmmaann]

If she hurts/injures a client whilst at work,how will you feel then?
You need to get this sorted asap.

 

[Leyla]

Hi All

If she hurts/injures a client whilst at work,how will you feel then?
You need to get this sorted asap.

Yes agree. It is a health and safety issue.

In the meantime, is it possible for her to do other work in the salon?


x

 

[BizGurl]

Hi All



Yes agree. It is a health and safety issue.

In the meantime, is it possible for her to do other work in the salon?


x

Getting her to do other work in the salon could be a good idea, however in most salons I've ever been to, other than 'practical'/treatment work, all that is left is really reception/admin and cleaning. If the person in question is not good with clients or comes over as 'zoned out', than most other duties wouldn't really be that suitable either.

 

[SneakSMS]

Surely carrying illegal (assuming they are) drugs on to your premises is grounds for dismissal no matter what? Getting sacked should be the least of her worries. Outside of work is really her business. Bringing illegal substances onto your premises is very much something to be concerned about.

 

[irel]

hello,
Sorry, I didn't read all advices here. But what do you think about the medical tests? If it will be made during the work time.

 

[estwig]

If it was simply a performance issue - not working efficiently during her "almighty" downs - I'd agree that offering support as part of a programme to address the performance would be appropriate. But given that she's bringing these drugs into work, I think it's more serious, and more than justifies a focus on disciplinary action.


Karl Limpert

What about a focus on offering a little support to a youngster. Oh!! Hang on, there's no money in that for you, is there.?? Vulture!!

 

[Consistency]

The advice of talk to her first and see if there is anything that can be done to help her she must be suffering poor thing etc is all well and good for a volunteer who has several businesses at their disposal or for someone who works part time at the local drop in centre on a day off but not for someone in a competitive market trying to maintain a business and keep going. There are many Salons or hairdressers out there and I know well how a lot of women are particular about their appearance and will just as easy go to the next place if they feel they are not receiving the best attention for their money. For the elderly particularly going to get their blue rinse weekly is a highlight of their week as they go not only for the hair do but for the conversation and social interaction.

At 12 months employees rights get a lot more in their favour so I would act as quickly as you can. Seek legal advice and do it right otherwise she will perhaps have you before a tribunal and she will be the victim. As dopey as she might appear now you may well see a sudden spurt of energy at the thought of getting compensation from yourself via a no win no fee solicitor for unfair dismissal.

I would not allow this to happen because while we are playing counsellor and trying to do the nice thing she is playing havoc with the business and doing the bad thing. In business we have to look after ourselves because there are not many others who will. There are plenty of people out there who will feel sympathy for a druggie and will help her but when you go for help for your business you will find many a closed door.

Good luck and "watch your till"

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

What about a focus on offering a little support to a youngster. Oh!! Hang on, there's no money in that for you, is there.?? Vulture!!

Hold on there Keith, your comments are entirely unreasonable & defamatory on my character & contributions on this forum.

If you cared to look on the legal section (where I contribute a fair bit) you will find plenty of my peers regularly tout for work, replies being one-liners about how they can help, with no more of a response than an email address. My own posts are much more focused on giving comprehensive advice for free - which I have also regularly followed up off the forum... still without charging.

As for the idea of helping out this poor youngster, there is actually nothing to imply this person is young from the OP. I'm very familiar with people in their 30s, 40s & 50s that use various class A drugs, so no reason to assume the age of the employee. And regardless of age, this is still a business forum, and there are normally people better placed to support a junkie than an employer, let alone a small business employer.

I would politely suggest you really shouldn't jump to conclusions, but check your facts first. You might even find that as an ex-trade union rep, I do support employees. I tend not to here though, as not the purpose or focus of the forum!


Karl Limpert

 

[estwig]

Hi Karl, my apologises my comment should not have been aimed at you personally, more the profession you represent.
Being an ex drug addict myself and a parent, these threads, (which UKBF has seen many) are very disappointing. There always seems to be a tenancy for a witch hunt, against anything involving drugs and at times anything against youngsters, who perhaps just go astray for a while. A little more tolerance and taking of responsibility from business owners, could well lead to a more productive and profitable business. But it is all too easy to just turn the other cheek and shout, sack 'em, get someone else.

A quick phone call to anyone of the multitude of charities, or government organisations set up to help youngsters with drug problems, could prove a lot more enlightening, than calling for employment lawyers.

 

[MASSEY]

I dont know how people do drugs at work, fair enough if your in a club or what have you but at work is just dumb, and a waste of money.

 

[Zeno]

I am confused as to how the OP knew the tablets the girl had with her were illegal drugs. If it was a bloody syringe & a bent spoon then you could be forgiven for forming a conclusion but how did you know what the tablets were without having them tested? (or am I being hopelessly naive?)

 

[estwig]

I dont know how people do drugs at work, fair enough if your in a club or what have you but at work is just dumb, and a waste of money.

There generally addicts, smokers and coffee drinkers being the most common.

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

Sounds like a case of gross misconduct and, therefore, instant dismissal to me. There's also the case the reputation management.

 

[estwig]

Sounds like a case of gross misconduct and, therefore, instant dismissal to me. There's also the case the reputation management.

Yea why not?? She's only a person, totally disposable!!

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

Yea why not?? She's only a person, totally disposable!!

She's been caught with illegal drugs in the workplace and she isn't doing her job correctly!

 

[estwig]

She's been caught with illegal drugs in the workplace and she isn't doing her job correctly!

She needs help??

No??

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

She needs help??

No??

Business is business.

 

[cmcp]

Business is business.

How many employees do you have?

 

[estwig]

How many employees do you have?

I doubt he has any, or has only just stared to employ, or he would not take such a narrow minded, irresponsible view.

 

[WJP]

Give her a chance and help by all means, but if she persists then dismissal may be your only option I'm afraid.

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Hi Karl, my apologises my comment should not have been aimed at you personally, more the profession you represent.
Being an ex drug addict myself and a parent, these threads, (which UKBF has seen many) are very disappointing. There always seems to be a tenancy for a witch hunt, against anything involving drugs and at times anything against youngsters, who perhaps just go astray for a while. A little more tolerance and taking of responsibility from business owners, could well lead to a more productive and profitable business. But it is all too easy to just turn the other cheek and shout, sack 'em, get someone else.

A quick phone call to anyone of the multitude of charities, or government organisations set up to help youngsters with drug problems, could prove a lot more enlightening, than calling for employment lawyers.

Thanks for that Keith.

I won't try to defend the profession I work in; any profession has its cowboys & vultures. I'll only ever defend my conduct, both in this field & on this forum.

From the point of view of an employer that could adopt it, or someone that advises them on HR, your view would be in my favour: give the employee long-term support, and monitor their progress closely - getting advice as you go from a HR specialist (an option I leave for those focused more on money/customers than using the forum to assist).

However, from the point of view of a small business employer - and in this case, one that is not securing what should be repeat customers - I think it is better to look at the possibility of dismissing. It is the easy way out, but however old this employee is, there are people that know them better & could offer more support than an employer of 11 months.

Excuse me while I go off on a tangent, but as I mentioned earlier I know drug addicts too, and on a personal level I hate the attitude people have towards this group of society. In practice, many mix with us on a day-to-day basis, but they keep their habits behind closed doors, not injecting or leaving used syringes around in public places; this leads to a public persona of a perfectly respectable person - and for good reason too: they are! - but with a habit that has some control other them too.

I don't subscribe to witch hunts as I think we all have flaws. My advice on here & elsewhere is only ever focused on the business interests. If a business can afford to devote time to support an employee with an addiction, I would be happy to advise; many can't though, and they need to take the firm management action promptly, which is what I think is probably necessary in this case - particularly as they approach a year's service, attracting more rights.



Karl Limpert

 

[Consistency]

Yes there are people on drugs that need help but if I they were to get help they are going to need time for recovery and depending on the severity of the problem then the company is easily going to end up paying for rehabilitation or paying with the business.

Customers are not going to come back where there are alcoholics doing their thing and they are not going to come back where there are druggies doing their thing either.

 

[estwig]

Yes there are people on drugs that need help but if I they were to get help they are going to need time for recovery and depending on the severity of the problem then the company is easily going to end up paying for rehabilitation or paying with the business.

Customers are not going to come back where there are alcoholics doing their thing and they are not going to come back where there are druggies doing their thing either.

Your ignorance of the subject is understandable, but what you have said here is most likely completely wrong. Every addict, or person using drugs is different and their problems require a different solution each time. People often respond very well to a little kindness, understanding and help, helping a problem employee, could well turn them into your best employee.

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

Drugs are bad.

 

[estwig]

Drugs are bad.

Well done Sherlock!

So what's the answer?? Dismiss people, throw them on the heap??

 

[estwig]

Thanks for that Keith.

I won't try to defend the profession I work in; any profession has its cowboys & vultures. I'll only ever defend my conduct, both in this field & on this forum.

From the point of view of an employer that could adopt it, or someone that advises them on HR, your view would be in my favour: give the employee long-term support, and monitor their progress closely - getting advice as you go from a HR specialist (an option I leave for those focused more on money/customers than using the forum to assist).

However, from the point of view of a small business employer - and in this case, one that is not securing what should be repeat customers - I think it is better to look at the possibility of dismissing. It is the easy way out, but however old this employee is, there are people that know them better & could offer more support than an employer of 11 months.

Excuse me while I go off on a tangent, but as I mentioned earlier I know drug addicts too, and on a personal level I hate the attitude people have towards this group of society. In practice, many mix with us on a day-to-day basis, but they keep their habits behind closed doors, not injecting or leaving used syringes around in public places; this leads to a public persona of a perfectly respectable person - and for good reason too: they are! - but with a habit that has some control other them too.

I don't subscribe to witch hunts as I think we all have flaws. My advice on here & elsewhere is only ever focused on the business interests. If a business can afford to devote time to support an employee with an addiction, I would be happy to advise; many can't though, and they need to take the firm management action promptly, which is what I think is probably necessary in this case - particularly as they approach a year's service, attracting more rights.



Karl Limpert

Thank you Karl, it is good to know not everyone in employment law is a shark or a vulture. Some of you are normal people, with flaws, like the rest of us mere mortals!

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

Well done Sherlock!

So what's the answer?? Dismiss people, throw them on the heap??

Exceedingly so.

 

[estwig]

Exceedingly so.

Epic Fail at trolling, drugs help, they clarify the mind!

 

[maxine]

Karl shouldn't have to defend his position on this forum as he has consistently helped from both sides of the fence on professional basis and always focused on helping the small business make the right commercial decisions!

As far as employment decisions go, whether 11 weeks or 11 months, it makes no difference in terms of treating people fairly. You cannot get into handling one person one way and then someone else another way as there is a risk of coming unstuck with discrimination and unfair treatment later on down the line.

Personally I think it is a fanciful notion to try and help someone in this kind of situation. It hardly ever works out the way it is hoped. Maybe I am an old negative Annie but I make that statement based on years of experience managing people where drugs have been involved. Not always youngsters. Not always the people in junior positions either.

There needs to be a discipliary process, whether the outcome of that is dismissal or warning is another discussion, but what's important is to have a process in place that will help for whatever happens in the future. If it is mishandled now then it will be much more difficult to deal with later and may run the risk of the employer being sued.

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

Epic Fail at trolling, drugs help, they clarify the mind!

I wasn't trolling. If she isn't dismissed and continues to get away with this then is there really any need to change is there? Besides drug users need to want to get help. Sometimes getting sacked, being at rock bottom and learning from mistakes if what is needed. Maybe tough love is in order here.