Drugs & Work

[ZARMarketing]

Hi

I totally agree, this girl is costing you money by not being focussed on her job. It is horrible going into a salon where the stylist/beautician is disengaged and non communicative.

The fact that she has had drugs in her possession at work is a disciplinary offence and illegal but hopefully you have clearly given her an outline of your policies and procedures.

I would follow the route of a discipline and terminating her contract. Why don't you seek some advice from ACAS. They will point you in the right direction in terms of procedures and if you want to completely absolve yourself from any comeback I would contact an HR Consultant to assist you.

Hope all goes well.

Zoe

 

[billie1]

Thanks for that Keith.


However, from the point of view of a small business employer - and in this case, one that is not securing what should be repeat customers - I think it is better to look at the possibility of dismissing. It is the easy way out, but however old this employee is, there are people that know them better & could offer more support than an employer of 11 months.


Karl Limpert

Agree with Karl, we have to realise this is a small employer in a very competitive field who is loosing clients because of this individual. I think many of us in this employer's situation would have opted for immediate dismissal.

 

[MASSEY]

I think actually if it was me i would try and help the person who is taking drugs, i know business is business but you have to have some decency.

 

[billie1]

I think actually if it was me i would try and help the person who is taking drugs, i know business is business but you have to have some decency.

What if she injures the clients, then the employer would be in further trouble. In the hair and beauty industry, health and safety is very important and if you're putting customers at risk, I think dismissal is very reasonable.

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

What if she injures the clients, then the employer would be in further trouble. In the hair and beauty industry, health and safety is very important and if you're putting customers at risk, I think dismissal is very reasonable.

Agreed. They work with chemicals for dying hair. If they leave that stuff on for too long... She's a liability.

 

[Bri]

the thread has moved from someone who has tablets to being an addict. Please go back to the beginning of the thread where we advocated that she pulled in to speak to about her behaviour, myself, Karl and keith all expressed a similar non volatile approach.

All of a sudden the poor girl is labelled an addict.

Many thanks to Keith for admitting to your past,we're forever learning about each other on this forum, there are addicts and addicts. I like a drink infact I love a drink and will drink until the cows come home and they never arrive funnily enough.What I dont do is hurt anyone, never arrive late for work, and never under the influence in work. I lived with an alcoholic for 6 months and didnt know it, she was very good. I too have reformed addict friends and their stories are if your not faint hearted should be horror films. I also lived for a short time with a girl who's niece stayed with us and a heroin addict on Methadone, what a shock putting the veg bin out on top of empty Methadone bottles.

I now have adults in my household where drugs are recreational behaviour on a Saturday night, thankfully mine dont do it, although they do admit theyd love to but theyre too scared, but stepdaughter relates the previous nights event to us and as an older adult I'm apalled it goes on.

This brings me back to the user above, she may not be an addict, but she's a user and she's bringing her lifestyle into the workplace, the two dont mix and she must be spoken to about it, not helped, she doesnt need help she's got a job she's able to fund her recreation through it.The people that need help are the ones that are really addicted and feel theres no other option for them.

 

[estwig]

Karl shouldn't have to defend his position on this forum as he has consistently helped from both sides of the fence on professional basis and always focused on helping the small business make the right commercial decisions!

I had a pop and Karl choose to defend his position, admirably so.

As far as employment decisions go, whether 11 weeks or 11 months, it makes no difference in terms of treating people fairly. You cannot get into handling one person one way and then someone else another way as there is a risk of coming unstuck with discrimination and unfair treatment later on down the line.

But you are advocating treating people fairly, which is more than a lotta people on this thread are advocating.

Personally I think it is a fanciful notion to try and help someone in this kind of situation. It hardly ever works out the way it is hoped. Maybe I am an old negative Annie but I make that statement based on years of experience managing people where drugs have been involved. Not always youngsters. Not always the people in junior positions either.

Maybe you should've tried harder.

There needs to be a discipliary process, whether the outcome of that is dismissal or warning is another discussion, but what's important is to have a process in place that will help for whatever happens in the future. If it is mishandled now then it will be much more difficult to deal with later and may run the risk of the employer being sued.

Quite right, assuming a disciplinary procedure can be to the benefit of all concerned.

..........................

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

I think this has become a really interesting thread, and one that raises all sorts of challenges & questions - for business & private life. Perhaps throwing up more difficulties than answers for the OP though.


In terms of supporting drug users that need to & want to rehab, I'm strongly for it, and think in general terms we should do all we can to help.

That said, as a small employer, the decision can be much more difficult. For an employee with minimal rights, my instinct would be to remove the problem, while appreciating the problem is then only going to be passed on to others.

For an employer that could manage the support, or for an employee with longer service, I would be inclined to provide support.

This is all generalised though, and each case has to be considered on its merits.


This case is particularly difficult, as the employee has 11 months service, and if they are due a month's notice, potentially would already be protected by unfair dismissal rules (only one of the issues to consider, but certainly an important one for the business).

IF - and that is a big IF based on this thread - the employer decided to proceed with a disciplinary with the potential to dismiss, even if only due one week's notice, the employer would have to be careful to ensure disciplinary procedures are followed properly before making a decision, as otherwise the unfair dismissal regs could still apply. (This is all based on case law that I'll try to reference later, but the fast moving pace of this thread (and other domestic responsibilities) means I can't qualify this yet. (In short, where proper notice was not provided, the notice period could be assumed as part of the employment for the 12 months rules, giving the employee an unfair dismissal claim without working 12 months.))

For me, the decision is based not on what is morally right - where I do agree with Keith (Estwig) in assisting those with a habit that want & need help - but what is right for the employer, the business, and the balance of employees & customers who you don't want to ostracise.

A tough call, and perhaps the OP has run off scared - not been back since about midday! (Hope they will be back though, as some excellent & mature comments from all sides of the much wider debate this thread has evolved into.)



Karl Limpert

 

[devon439]

Thanks for all your comments. I would just like to add that I have dedicated a lot of time and effort to helping the individual with no success. The drug found she admitted to being Ecstasy. I am constantly having complaints about her attitude to customers, her trance-like state sometimes and to top it all she has cut a customers ear...thankfully the customer was understanding...but could of opened a whole new can of worms.

Many thanks.

 

[estwig]

Thanks for all your comments. I would just like to add that I have dedicated a lot of time and effort to helping the individual with no success. The drug found she admitted to being Ecstasy. I am constantly having complaints about her attitude to customers, her trance-like state sometimes and to top it all she has cut a customers ear...thankfully the customer was understanding...but could of opened a whole new can of worms.

Many thanks.

In that case, maybe you should be shot of her, there is only so much you can do to help someone. Fair play to you for trying to help. Your ultimate priorities have to lye with your business and the people it supports.

At times being in business and especially employing people is not, by any means, easy.

 

[QuickHomeBuyers]

1. Unwanted attention from the police. Class A is nothing like weed.

2. I cant imagine an employee who would work under the influence of drugs in my business. Being under the influence and handling cash would probably mean and loss by the seconds.

3. Why are people having a soft corner for the addicts? She is taking you for a ride and probably thinking "HE" wouldnt know.

 

[Consistency]

I take note of an earlier post that said the thread is getting out of hand and all of a sudden she is labelled a drug addict.
If someone was looking dopey or had an aggressive tone and you found a can of Stella Artois in her bag then would it be an unreasonable assumption to come to that she may have a drink problem?
While we are talking of presumptions and there has been a lot of defenders of this poor little delicate junkie who may have been deprived of that fancy mobile phone at the age of 10, there has also been much presumption that the employer here has done absolutely nothing to help her already.
The employee has worked there for 11 months. That is quite some time to build a relationship and this seems to have been a probem for a while.
The title of the thread is called drugs and work so although it relates to a specific case, it is also general as this can affect anyone of us.
There is a lot more sympathy and organisations to help someone who has given themselves to drugs than there are for a law abiding person who wants to do well and earn a decent living and putting something back into the system. If it goes wrong for a drug taker, there are many who will help. If it goes wrong for a business owner there are very few indeed.

 

[billie1]

Thanks for all your comments. I would just like to add that I have dedicated a lot of time and effort to helping the individual with no success. The drug found she admitted to being Ecstasy. I am constantly having complaints about her attitude to customers, her trance-like state sometimes and to top it all she has cut a customers ear...thankfully the customer was understanding...but could of opened a whole new can of worms.

Many thanks.

There is more than enough ground for dismissal as customers health and safety are at risk.

 

[harryboon]

There is more than enough ground for dismissal as customers health and safety are at risk.

Totally agree - If one of my staff came to work on drugs etc I would fire them so fast!

 

[Chris H]

Her attitude and trance-like state may or may not be due to her alleged drug use. If she's not up to the job and is causing issues with customers then why would anyone need to bring in this issue of drugs?

There is no way of linking the ability of a person to do a job and the level of any residues (metabolites) in their system. And levels is all that a drug test can measure. With jobs that are safety critical such as pilots or surgeons then obviously a zero-tolerance approach can be used and enforced but for non-critical employment you'd be entering a minefield balancing your 'interpretation' against the right of someone to a private life.

It's a very unclear area in law and the government is being requested to clear it up and lay some guidelines down.

 

[SneakSMS]

Thanks for all your comments. I would just like to add that I have dedicated a lot of time and effort to helping the individual with no success. The drug found she admitted to being Ecstasy. I am constantly having complaints about her attitude to customers, her trance-like state sometimes and to top it all she has cut a customers ear...thankfully the customer was understanding...but could of opened a whole new can of worms.

Many thanks.

Ah, being ecstasy makes it an even greater concern imo. I don't believe that ecstasy can be compatible with a workplace like yours. If it was an office job, with no face-to-face contact, then no customer is really going to notice.

She is clearly expected to have one-to-one (or near enough) contact with the clients. Her pupils could remain dilated for over 24 hours, depending on dosage, so if she's had a heavy saturday night going on til sunday morning would easily have her with plate-like pupils. Not something you want your customers to deal with!

Combine that with the serious serotonin depletion - and she's not going to be a happy bunny. Not someone you want around you or your business.

You should also consider why she had the pills at work. Was it a friday night? Was she not going home after work before going out? Or is she a) buying them whilst at work/on a break or b) supplying to someone else while at work/on a break.

Ecstasy is not physically addictive, she's not going to be an addict. She doesn't need help, she needs a firm kick up the backside to get her life together (if she wants to keep her job that is)

I suggest you watch "Human Traffic" - essentially it's about taking ecstasy and going out for a weekend. It's the closest you can get to understanding what it's like without taking the stuff.

 

[Bri]

I take note of an earlier post that said the thread is getting out of hand and all of a sudden she is labelled a drug addict.
If someone was looking dopey or had an aggressive tone and you found a can of Stella Artois in her bag then would it be an unreasonable assumption to come to that she may have a drink problem?
While we are talking of presumptions and there has been a lot of defenders of this poor little delicate junkie who may have been deprived of that fancy mobile phone at the age of 10, there has also been much presumption that the employer here has done absolutely nothing to help her already.
The employee has worked there for 11 months. That is quite some time to build a relationship and this seems to have been a probem for a while.
The title of the thread is called drugs and work so although it relates to a specific case, it is also general as this can affect anyone of us.
There is a lot more sympathy and organisations to help someone who has given themselves to drugs than there are for a law abiding person who wants to do well and earn a decent living and putting something back into the system. If it goes wrong for a drug taker, there are many who will help. If it goes wrong for a business owner there are very few indeed.

..This is the culture of the world we now live in.We have to accept that the yoof of today are more affluent e.g. they are living at home longer and longer with mummy and daddy who are like me paying for them to have a roof over their head and by them thinking giving you 25 quid a week for their upkeep gives them exclusive rights to how they behave,they are more astute and more social than ever before. They live for staying out and staying out late. Part of that involves recreational substances, ans as time goes on a little tab for a quick high turns into another tab just to get me through the day. It is now considered acceptable whether it be a can of Stella or snort of coke. Yes we have to make it unacceptable in the workplace and intolerant of it, I am still wary of waving a pointed stick at this girl and labelling her an addict. Addicts are out of control, their need far outweighs the need of others and they will screw you over and let you down every time because of their addiction.This person merely thinks she's giving herself a little edge by taking a tab in work, its not working as her work is suffering and her energy levels are being sapped, she thinks she's in xanadu. Do I still agree she should be fired, yes I do. Do I think she should be given the chance to purge herself and keep her habits outside work, yes I do. Do I think she should give up the tabs, yes I do, it messes you up.