Does fibre broadband go off in a blackout?

[HFE Signs]

Our industrial site relatively new 15-20yrs old however the main transformer is supplied by overhead cables and we do get the occasional power cut.

I'm looking to install a small back up generator in case we have power cuts during the winter. The generator won't be large enough to run the site, but will be enough to run the phones, office lights and computers - basically keeping us in touch with our customers.

My question is: During a power cut, does the fibre line still work if we keep our router powered up or does that go off too? In the past, analogue and isdn lines stayed live.

Thanks in advance

 

[fisicx]

Might stay on. Might not. You won’t know until the power goes out.

Analogue stayed on because it was a telephone line powered by a 50v battery in the local exchange. Fibre is a bit more complicated. You may all be using the same router up the line. If that’s mains powered you ain’t got nuffin’

 

[WaveJumper]

I can only comment on my own experience, I have back up power which internet connection and PCs are connected to when we get a power cut (which has happened a couple of times) obviously computer does not trip out and my internet has stayed on (fibre optic) I would assume the providers must have back up generators in place which trip in as soon as there is a power interruption. certainly I think all large organisations I've ever worked in had the same type of set up.

Just a thought from memory I have worked in an office where the phone system was not connected to a backup so the the system did go down ie all the extensions and switchboard, we had a single phone (old type no bells and whistles) plugged into the incoming socket and that still worked. Have to say once it happened to them twice they soon got a battery back up in place.

 

[fisicx]

Industrial units often have a fat fibre connection that is then distributed via hubs and routers to each user. It’s these units that connect you to the outside world. If they lose power your internet connection goes down.

 

[Red Wood]

In a word, yes.

On a seperate issue if there are planned power cuts, how do they make sure those with life supporting/aiding equipment installed in homes keep powered. I'm assuming not every piece of equipment has a backup battery?

 

[HFE Signs]

Industrial units often have a fat fibre connection that is then distributed via hubs and routers to each user. It’s these units that connect you to the outside world. If they lose power your internet connection goes down.

Internal equipment will be powered by the generator

 

[WaveJumper]

In a word, yes.

On a seperate issue if there are planned power cuts, how do they make sure those with life supporting/aiding equipment installed in homes keep powered. I'm assuming not every piece of equipment has a backup battery?

Now thats a scary thought, i have a neighbour with various bits of medical kit will check in with them later today and have a sneaky peak.

 

[HFE Signs]

In a word, yes.

On a seperate issue if there are planned power cuts, how do they make sure those with life supporting/aiding equipment installed in homes keep powered. I'm assuming not every piece of equipment has a backup battery?

That is a scary thought

 

[fisicx]

Internal equipment will be powered by the generator

Those hubs and routers are external. Probably in the office of the local property manager.

Even if you have your own fibre connection it has to connect to the network at some point. If the local network loses power you lose your connection.

Even worse for you because you have moved to AWS. It means there are now hundreds of boxes that all need to be online all the time for you to stay connected.

 

[HFE Signs]

Those hubs and routers are external. Probably in the office of the local property manager.

Even if you have your own fibre connection it has to connect to the network at some point. If the local network loses power you lose your connection.

Even worse for you because you have moved to AWS. It means there are now hundreds of boxes that all need to be online all the time for you to stay connected.

We have a direct line from the BT box so hopefully as @WaveJumper suggests, its likely to have some form of backup.

I really can't see AWS going down, I'm pretty sure they will have backup in place more so than any small local server hosting company. My concerns were not about losing the website, more about keeping in touch with customers over a local power outage

 

[fisicx]

I agree but if your local customers have a power cut then how you going to contact them?

And whilst AWS might have backups it all the thousands of routers, hubs and switches between you and everything else that can drop out.

There is a lot of resilience in the WWW but there is almost certainly going to be service interruptions if when are power cuts.

 

[HFE Signs]

I agree but if your local customers have a power cut then how you going to contact them?

? I don't think our local or national customers would expect us to be responsible for their power

 

[IanSuth]

Now thats a scary thought, i have a neighbour with various bits of medical kit will check in with them later today and have a sneaky peak.

They are meant to be registerred with both their power supplier and telecoms provider - in the case of rolling planned blackouts they are then otherwise powered. Also with the move to digital rather than analogue phone lines they will be given a battery backed up phone to allow continuity of connection.

Just a thought - whilst all those needing phone lines for health reasons have been considered, what are Serco/HM Prison&Probation doing about all those who are on tags that speak to a local base station to enforce a curfew ? Are they all on the mobile network (which has backup batteries and/or generators in base stations or via the phone lines ? Otherwise the 3 hour power cut will be a like advertising when they can go thieving in the dark safe from monitoring

 

[HFE Signs]

Just a thought - whilst all those needing phone lines for health reasons have been considered, what are Serco/HM Prison&Probation doing about all those who are on tags that speak to a local base station to enforce a curfew ? Are they all on the mobile network (which has backup batteries and/or generators in base stations or via the phone lines ?

I guess we'll see an increase in crime and antisocial behavior during blackouts, increased by more people going into poverty too

 

[Fagin2021]

Just a thought - whilst all those needing phone lines for health reasons have been considered, what are Serco/HM Prison&Probation doing about all those who are on tags that speak to a local base station to enforce a curfew ? Are they all on the mobile network (which has backup batteries and/or generators in base stations or via the phone lines ? Otherwise the 3 hour power cut will be a like advertising when they can go thieving in the dark safe from monitoring

And what about the raptor cages ?

 

[IanSuth]

And what about the raptor cages ?

Maybe they can eat the crims

 

[Annoying Donkey]

And what about the raptor cages ?

Do you think I should take precautions against budgie escapes...

 

[BustersDogs]

My residential fibre cut out when we had a power cut, but the router is plugged into the electric, so...

 

[Red Wood]

In the case of rolling planned blackouts they are then otherwise powered.

How would this work in reality, there must be hundreds of thousands of cases. You cant isolate a whole network but keep a few houses dotted here and there with power. The grid isn't set up like that. But as you say, there must be provision in some form

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Just got this from the Virgin forum:

For a very localised power cut, your connection might keep running if you have a backup power supply in your home. Otherwise, the wider the area of the power cut, the less likely you are to remain connected, even with your own backup power!

This is a summary of several discussion but still isn't conclusive.

I believe copper telecom suppliers (well, supplier) was legally obliged to keep the phone service running in a blackout, hence dial up would still work. Cable/internet providers do not have that obligation.

 

[IanSuth]

Just got this from the Virgin forum:

For a very localised power cut, your connection might keep running if you have a backup power supply in your home. Otherwise, the wider the area of the power cut, the less likely you are to remain connected, even with your own backup power!

This is a summary of several discussion but still isn't conclusive.

I believe copper telecom suppliers (well, supplier) was legally obliged to keep the phone service running in a blackout, hence dial up would still work. Cable/internet providers do not have that obligation.

And more and more places the copper lines are being ripped out

When their was a fault locally and we lost our domestic phone line Virgin replaces with phone over the fibre/ethernet connection as the full replacement of all copper is scheduled to be done soon so they are no longer under any obligation to maintain copper - so powercut for us now means no landline.

I beleive the idea is for all to go by 2025 (but that may have slipped)

Here is Openreach's comment from a couple of years ago

• We’ve already stopped selling copper products in Salisbury, Wiltshire and have announced over 2,900 locations, where we’ll stop selling copper products between now and August 2022. From September 2023 we'll only provide digital phones across the UK.
• Some communications providers may choose to impose this sooner, so you might see this reflected in their product offerings. We recommend that you check what's available on their website.

Openreach puts the stopper on copper

 

[fisicx]

Still got an trim phone in the garage. Plugged into an old BT line and still works. No mains power, runs of the volts in the phone line.

 

[catshill]

In a FTTP install the ONT (think of it as a modem) requires a power supply. A sub £100 UPS 700mwh will keep this and a router powered for over an hour.

 

[UKSBD]

And more and more places the copper lines are being ripped out

When their was a fault locally and we lost our domestic phone line Virgin replaces with phone over the fibre/ethernet connection as the full replacement of all copper is scheduled to be done soon so they are no longer under any obligation to maintain copper - so powercut for us now means no landline.

I beleive the idea is for all to go by 2025 (but that may have slipped)

Here is Openreach's comment from a couple of years ago

• We’ve already stopped selling copper products in Salisbury, Wiltshire and have announced over 2,900 locations, where we’ll stop selling copper products between now and August 2022. From September 2023 we'll only provide digital phones across the UK.
• Some communications providers may choose to impose this sooner, so you might see this reflected in their product offerings. We recommend that you check what's available on their website.

Openreach puts the stopper on copper

I've been looking at updating my BT Broadband recently and you can only have the update by taking out the new digital line (assuming you need a line too)

 

[simon field]

Unrelated but anyway - we’ve been trying for fibre broadband for years, but much more so for the last several months - no joy. Not available in our area yet. Plans shown as sometime in the next 2 years.

So we took a little drive around the area, and lo and behold! It’s everywhere! It’s a tiny rural village with maybe 100 houses and two small businesses including us - we counted at least 40 fibre connections!

Got back onto Openreach (via a provider) and they didn’t know we could get fibre. From a wooden post all of 60 metres away! We had to tell them that it was available, and now suddenly we can get ourselves a contract.

 

[japancool]

hence dial up would still work.

Only if you had a BABT approved phone.

 

[japancool]

I've been looking at updating my BT Broadband recently and you can only have the update by taking out the new digital line (assuming you need a line too)

I got a new line, for the broadband only. I wasn't charged for it.

 

[UKSBD]

I got a new line, for the broadband only. I wasn't charged for it.

Yeah, but it costs the same for the broadband only as the broadband with a line, you then pay an extra £7.50 for 700 mins of calls.

You have to change to a digital line though which requires a new handset (you get this for free though, with plan I was looking at)

 

[forevergroup]

Naturally depends on where the power cut extends to. FTTC fibre broadband is fibre to the cabinet, which then powers the circuit across copper to the premises.

This means that if power to the external cabinet goes down, the service goes down too, even if your have power locally.

The best way to mitigate this particular challenge is to choose a firewall/router that supports dual WAN with failover to 4G/LTE.

That way the UPS will preserve internal devices and 4G should (hopefully) provide resiliency against external infrastructure downtime.

 

[HFE Signs]

Naturally depends on where the power cut extends to. FTTC fibre broadband is fibre to the cabinet, which then powers the circuit across copper to the premises.

This means that if power to the external cabinet goes down, the service goes down too, even if your have power locally.

The best way to mitigate this particular challenge is to choose a firewall/router that supports dual WAN with failover to 4G/LTE.

That way the UPS will preserve internal devices and 4G should (hopefully) provide resiliency against external infrastructure downtime.

Thanks, that sounds like great option, assuming we have a decent 4g signal, I’ll explore this, thank you

 

[Philip Hoyle]

During the Lancaster black out in Storm Desmond, we didn't even have analogue phone signal (I have an old unpowered phone I use during power cuts normally) at first so the exchange back up system mus have failed. Also for a few hours, the mobile network was down too, maybe due to sheer number of people trying to phone on their mobiles and trying to use mobile data for broadband. Pretty scary having no communication at all. We ended up listening to local radio on an old battery radio to find out what was going on!

 

[forevergroup]

Thanks, that sounds like great option, assuming we have a decent 4g signal, I’ll explore this, thank you

Happy to help. We are a multi-accredited Cisco partner so we specialise in resilient network infrastructure, feel free to PM me if you’d like some support on this.

Depending on business requirements there are options such as the ability to failover a fixed IP address from broadband to 4G, or even active/active VPN to resources in AWS or Azure.

Vanilla failover to backup 4G is cheapest of course, if internet access is the only main requirement.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

which requires a new handset

Does that mean it's a VoIP phone?

 

[UKSBD]

Does that mean it's a VoIP phone?

They don't call it VoIP, but it looks like it.
BT refer to it as Digital Voice

Digital Voice | Digital Home Phone | BT

Experience Digital Voice from BT. With Call Diversion & Call Protect, upgrade now to get crystal clear calling.

www.bt.com

If you currently have Broadband and a phone line with them and want to upgrade your broadband and keep your existing number, you have to move to Digital Voice.

Edit to add: you can still use your existing phone with an adaptor, but they send out up to 3 free handsets if you request them as part of a broadband upgrade.

 

[UKSBD]

Interesting info here about how storms are affecting the switch over to Digital Voice (VoIP)

We’re pausing our Digital Voice plans for Consumers, while we work on a more resilient rollout

By Marc Allera, CEO, Consumer division, BTLast year, we began our major rollout of Digital Voice – BT’s new home phone service that will mean calls are made over our new broadband network, rather than the old analogue network which is over 40 years old.Put simply, instead of plugging a home...

newsroom.bt.com

Hybrid phones , battery back-ups, etc.