Does anyone want to 'work' anymore?

[CJDRAMA]

Hi guys, Quite new to the forum.
Weve recently started our new company and are in the early stages at the moment with gettin out there promoting the business and building up a sales team.

We are offering nightclub/nightlife based work so we are mainly looking for promoter type workers, sales staff and even managers to run there own sales team.
However, after advertising around a little, twitter, facebook, word of mouth, leaflets and even gumtree. We are still strugging to find people that want to work. :|

Now most of the work we offer is comission based due to no set hours and we cant pay sales staff to sell when they will just go home and sit on facebook and call it work. But we are looking for managers that can earn a wage etc.

Does anyone else feel the same? that the youth of today just do not want to work (lets remember that I myself am in my early 20s and I hold down a full time job and have started, along with a couple others this new company)

All you hear is everyone moaning about how theres no work and no one is employing at the moment and yet we are offering work that has no set hours, can be done locally, potentially run and manage other people, socialise and earn a good comission...
Do you think weve been flooded with people that need money asking to work?... the answer is no.

Is this how the younger generation are? Is the doll form that easy to fill out? Is it the work were offering? Is there any old fashioned 'work for your money' people growing up?

Thoughts/opinions/advice?...

 

[seeingISbelieving]

Now most of the work we offer is comission based due to no set hours and we cant pay sales staff to sell when they will just go home and sit on facebook and call it work.

Is it the work were offering?

Thoughts/opinions/advice?...

You've answered your own question. It's the work you're offering.

Who in their right mind wants to work in commission based employment with no set hours. Believe it or not, people have families to support, bills to pay, rent to find, food to live, etc.

Almost all sales and promotion positions offer a 'basic' retainer, with commission incentives. So your answer is to get your hand in your pocket because anyone worth their salt as a commission only sales/promotion person is going to be already earning quite nicely elsewhere.

 

[ScottishInvestments]

Hi guys, Quite new to the forum.
Weve recently started our new company and are in the early stages at the moment with gettin out there promoting the business and building up a sales team.

We are offering nightclub/nightlife based work so we are mainly looking for promoter type workers, sales staff and even managers to run there own sales team.
However, after advertising around a little, twitter, facebook, word of mouth, leaflets and even gumtree. We are still strugging to find people that want to work. :|

Now most of the work we offer is comission based due to no set hours and we cant pay sales staff to sell when they will just go home and sit on facebook and call it work. But we are looking for managers that can earn a wage etc.

Does anyone else feel the same? that the youth of today just do not want to work (lets remember that I myself am in my early 20s and I hold down a full time job and have started, along with a couple others this new company)

All you hear is everyone moaning about how theres no work and no one is employing at the moment and yet we are offering work that has no set hours, can be done locally, potentially run and manage other people, socialise and earn a good comission...
Do you think weve been flooded with people that need money asking to work?... the answer is no.

Is this how the younger generation are? Is the doll form that easy to fill out? Is it the work were offering? Is there any old fashioned 'work for your money' people growing up?

Thoughts/opinions/advice?...

Offensive and downright insulting!

It's what you're offering, not that young people won't work.

ScotInvest

 

[FIZIX Agency]

You've answered your own question. It's the work you're offering.

Who in their right mind wants to work in commission based employment with no set hours. Believe it or not, people have families to support, bills to pay, rent to find, food to live, etc.

Almost all sales and promotion positions offer a 'basic' retainer, with commission incentives. So your answer is to get your hand in your pocket because anyone worth their salt as a commission only sales/promotion person is going to be already earning quite nicely elsewhere.

^^^ This.


Basic rate + commission makes your job role attractive.
Commission only makes your job role unattractive.


The problem is not "people don't want to put in hard work" or "people are lazy", the problem is people sit back and think "How do I feed the kids is the commission doesn't stack up"; even if they are capable; the worry of the possibility will sway most responsible people.

It's fine if you are 18, still living with mum and dad and don't have any responsibilities. But if you have responsibilities such as bills; or children, it's gambling on your and your kids well being; at least from their perspective.

Basically you are taking all the risk and piling onto the employee when the risk of hiring someone is a mutual baring.

You have the risk that they aren't a good employee, are unreliable, dishonest or incapable of the job etc.
They have the risk that you are dishonest, of job security, are unreasonable etc.


As a new company, you are also a higher risk for most employees as you have more chance of going belly up than an established company.

 

[Sparx]

Does anyone else feel the same? that the youth of today just do not want to work (lets remember that I myself am in my early 20s and I hold down a full time job and have started, along with a couple others this new company)

What the hell are you talking about? I am also in my early 20s and I have been very lucky to have a job since I finished college. I have many friends who struggle everyday searching for a job who are around my age and some are a few years younger at 18/19 years old.

I take your comment quite offensively and I am sure others will also.

 

[CJDRAMA]

As explained, this is a new business with a couple of us started it, we are working totally on comission ourselfs. We cannot offer all paid work (hence why i stated this originally) so putting hands in our pockets was/is not an option... So thanks for your insightful and helpful comment... :|

In reply to the 'insulting' comment, I/we are not insulting anyone? as explained I am also young, and am simply quoting from what we all hear daily on the news and in papers about the millions of unemployed youth!! Fact.
So we are offering these 'unemployed youth' the chance to go out IN THEIR OWN TIME (no set hours) and try and earn THEMSELFS some extra money, to get them off the unemployed list and have something to do rather than sit at home. So again, thanks for your reply

 

[CJDRAMA]

I think you are all missing my point, We are aiming at the 18-20 odd year olds that do not have familys, bills, rent, properties etc. Thought that was a givven to be honest but ok fair enough if it wasnt.

I of course expect people to need a wage if thats their situations.
Our target is the fresh out of school/college, needing work and something to get them going, we offer a no tie down, no upfront money, the opportunity to work for themselfs and run their own little business and literraly get them started in the world.

Think some people on here need to not take things as personal insults lol

 

[ScottishInvestments]

As explained, this is a new business with a couple of us started it, we are working totally on comission ourselfs. We cannot offer all paid work (hence why i stated this originally) so putting hands in our pockets was/is not an option... So thanks for your insightful and helpful comment... :|

In reply to the 'insulting' comment, I/we are not insulting anyone? as explained I am also young, and am simply quoting from what we all hear daily on the news and in papers about the millions of unemployed youth!! Fact.
So we are offering these 'unemployed youth' the chance to go out IN THEIR OWN TIME (no set hours) and try and earn THEMSELFS some extra money, to get them off the unemployed list and have something to do rather than sit at home. So again, thanks for your reply

"Am simply quoting from what we hear daily on the news and in papers".

That's your problem. Being easily led and naive. What you said is insulting and offensive...

ScotInvest

 

[CJDRAMA]

"Am simply quoting from what we hear daily on the news and in papers".

That's your problem. Being easily led and naive. What you said is insulting and offensive...

ScotInvest

'My problem'? I dont think so, I hear the news, I read the stats, i see it daily. So i offer work and the chance for people to get themselfs going and im offensive? lol :|

 

[ScottishInvestments]

'My problem'? I dont think so, I hear the news, I read the stats, i see it daily. So i offer work and the chance for people to get themselfs going and im offensive? lol :|

So, you believe everything that is said in the news? That's the problem here.

You are implying that young people don't want to work. That is simply inaccurate. Visit your local job centre, you'll see thousands of young people searching for jobs.

That's the problem with people nowadays, they are easily led and believe every scaremongering tosh they hear on the news or read in the paper.

ScotInvest

 

[fisicx]

Now most of the work we offer is comission (SIC) based...

Like the others said. This is the problem.

It's not that they don't want to work, it's more like the job offer is unattractive. My son is 20, he read you post and suggested that you offer a minimum wage topped up with with commission.

To suggest he doesn't have bills is disingenuous. They do have bills - they are just different to the ones I have.

 

I suspect the kids today have had the stuffing knocked out of them by previous generations both in pay and quality of work available to them.

The rates of pay to living costs is so far out of sync ,I am not surprised many would rather not bother.

There is just no incentive .

 

[CJDRAMA]

So, you believe everything that is said in the news? That's the problem here.

You are implying that young people don't want to work. That is simply inaccurate. Visit your local job centre, you'll see thousands of young people searching for jobs.

That's the problem with people nowadays, they are easily led and believe every scaremongering tosh they hear on the news or read in the paper.

ScotInvest

Are you really arguing with me now about weather or not the news is true? It is simply a comment about what i have read and heard, i didnt understand that you was infact head of a newspaper, news tv program and websites that knows all the facts and that the news stats are innacurate.
ahh i was going to comment more and prove otherwise but im quite bored of it already.

 

[ScottishInvestments]

Are you really arguing with me now about weather or not the news is true? It is simply a comment about what i have read and heard, i didnt understand that you was infact head of a newspaper, news tv program and websites that knows all the facts and that the news stats are innacurate.
ahh i was going to comment more and prove otherwise but im quite bored of it already.

And all of that proves my point. I therefore rest my case.

ScotInvest

 

[fisicx]

At least my son knows how to spell and construct a grammatically correct sentence.

 

[CJDRAMA]

Like the others said. This is the problem.

It's not that they don't want to work, it's more like the job offer is unattractive. My son is 20, he read you post and suggested that you offer a minimum wage topped up with with commission.

To suggest he doesn't have bills is disingenuous. They do have bills - they are just different to the ones I have.

Thats a fair comment, and a well worded reply unlike others...

I understand what your saying but unfortunately we are a new company and as we are working only on commision ourselves, we see it as a case of, if you dont work at the moment, cant find a full time job, would you like the opportunity to go out, be sociable locally in your own hours etc etc and hopefully end the day/night with money. Then would you like to progress it further and become a manager, have some other people work for yourself and they then take on the roles you had while still earn.
Thats our line of thought, others will obviously be different i understand..
We are just quite shocked as soon as comission or intern work is mentioned you hear nothing more.

 

[CJDRAMA]

At least my son knows how to spell and construct a grammatically correct sentence.

I did just reply to your previous comment, but if that was directed at me.

Then well done to your son. I am currently not just sitting at a computer dedicating my day to each comment on here i am quickly typing a reply and getting on with other things.

So please please forgive me and anyone else who misstypes, missplaces a full stop or comma or even a capital letter.

 

[goodguy]

Hi CJ,I can see where you coming from, People like us, who set up a small business, are all on commission based salary, ie. No sales, no money, and we have to pay the mortgage etc, and feed the kids and work more hours than any euro directive.But people like us, don't seemed to see in other people the same determination to work hard, as people want the security(Base salary), which we don't enjoy.I think people, have got to used to the good old days, with very well paid public sector jobs, that don't exist nowdays, and staying on benefits are safer and easier. Lazy maybe not, taking the easy road maybe.

 

[FIZIX Agency]

Thats a fair comment, and a well worded reply unlike others...

I understand what your saying but unfortunately we are a new company and as we are working only on commision ourselves, we see it as a case of, if you dont work at the moment, cant find a full time job, would you like the opportunity to go out, be sociable locally in your own hours etc etc and hopefully end the day/night with money. Then would you like to progress it further and become a manager, have some other people work for yourself and they then take on the roles you had while still earn.
Thats our line of thought, others will obviously be different i understand..
We are just quite shocked as soon as comission or intern work is mentioned you hear nothing more.

If we cut the fluff, what you are actually saying is:

"We don't have the capital to start this business, so we are going to offer nothing but commission, put all the risk on the employees hands, that way they get burned and we don't".

Intern work is paid; we have had interns; you pay them; they learn on the job and then get a full time job at the end of it.

Interns don't work for free for the benefit of maybe getting a job.


The problem is, people who are looking for work have three basic needs:

- Enough pay to support themselves
- Stability
- Interest (as in, people don't *want* a job that they would hate)

With the latter, you don't want to be employing people who will hate their job; that would be counter productive to you and them as they won't perform as well as someone who does enjoy their job.

You are failing on the two first points.


Most of us who have started business had some kind of capital to start up with and we grew from that start-up capital; we did not go out trying to hire a workforce with money we didn't have nor did we attempt to get a workforce who are working for free.

Commission only work is essentially just that; as it is entirely dependent upon sales performance. So could work out at being rather low pay; especially as they are selling a new company and also has the risk that the product is difficult to sell.


Another part of the problem is; usually employers who want commission only employees are well aware of the fact that the pay from commission only work is likely to be below minimum wage for most employees. So, instead of spending out on minimum wage obligations; go commission only and bypass the law.

So the scenario is either unscrupulous or you are trying to start a business you cannot afford (or using an approach you cannot afford).


Why, may I ask; can you and your partner(s) not go out there and do the selling yourself?

I had too, I had to work every hour god sent, for about a year, before I could even consider hiring someone.


Also, criticising people for not having your mindset, in regards to your business and the issues of stability is a strawman argument; you have made the choice to start a business, with all the risks and hard work that come with it. Others have not; your employees have not.

You of the owner of the business also get benefits that the employees don't get, if your business is successful.

The idea that your employees should work to the same standards of hard work and risk as you are only relevant if there is a complete even split of the profits between your whole workforce, including yourself. Otherwise its not balanced thus the incentive isn't there.

 

[CJDRAMA]

Hi CJ,I can see where you coming from, People like us, who set up a small business, are all on commission based salary, ie. No sales, no money, and we have to pay the mortgage etc, and feed the kids and work more hours than any euro directive.But people like us, don't seemed to see in other people the same determination to work hard, as people want the security(Base salary), which we don't enjoy.I think people, have got to used to the good old days, with very well paid public sector jobs, that don't exist nowdays, and staying on benefits are safer and easier. Lazy maybe not, taking the easy road maybe.

Wow, did I just get backed up in all of this!? Thank you! haha

Yeah I will agree with absolutley everything there! and of course maybe my choice of words (lazy) offends some people, unfortunately im not easily offended and take things with a pinch of salt so dont see the offence others have

 

[CJDRAMA]

havent got time to reply to all of that but.
We can afford the start up, and have done. we do sell ourselfs 100% at the moment but theres only so much our small group can do, so quite simply as stated, we are offering extra work to anyone who wants it.

and the comission is a high comission, 33% on each sale actually. I challenge most companies to beat that if im honest

 

[maxine]

We are just quite shocked as soon as comission or intern work is mentioned you hear nothing more.

That's because it will be perceived as a scam. And by that I mean not in line with laws around National Minimum Wage.

People MUST have the potential to fairly earn NMW regardless of whether you work on commission with your clients or not.

Unfortunately too many employers are not aware of the laws here and just think that people need to work hard at their own risk and cost to achieve NMW.

Interns are also wrongly misunderstood by some employers and open to abuse where some employers think they can be unpaid job roles but this is not the case.

Unless the job is guaranteeing a wage in line with NMW then unfortunately it is seen as offensive to suggest that people don't want to work at their own cost and risk for less.

You would either need to reassure candidates that current employees achieve more than NMW or and that the employees will earn NMW from day one including training time.

Are you comfortable that you fall in line with these rules? If so then you may need to consider how you reassure people of this in your recruitment adverts as I imagine this will be a big hurdle to get over otherwise.

Good luck

 

[WJP]

Not being willing to take an uncalculated risk (which you are asking these people to do) and being lazy (which you are labelling them) are two completely different things.

 

[PDRD]

havent got time to reply to all of that but.
We can afford the start up, and have done. we do sell ourselfs 100% at the moment but theres only so much our small group can do, so quite simply as stated, we are offering extra work to anyone who wants it.

and the comission is a high comission, 33% on each sale actually. I challenge most companies to beat that if im honest

Yes you may pay 33%, but 33% of 0 sales is a take home of £0.

If someone spends a week working the unsociable hours you talk about and makes 0 sales then they have wasted a week, spent money on travel and probably work wear etc. How can you not see that this is not an attractive option?

Yes you and your business partners are working commission only, but its your company, that makes a huge difference. You take home 33% but you also get the rest of the ££ in your business.

 

[CJDRAMA]

I personally see no risk in what either of you have said, do you want to try some work out for a while and see how you go. IF you have NOTHING else to do, then i see no harm in trying. well thats what i would do but maybe im different.
and yes 33% of 0 is 0 and if that happens youve not lost anything or gained. so yeah maybe unattractive but more attractive than sitting at home doing nothing.

Thats the way i see things again

 

[fisicx]

Thats how you see things. Not how everybody else sees it. If you really beleive in your business then offer a wage. Comission only sends all the wrong signals.

 

and yes 33% of 0 is 0 and if that happens youve not lost anything or gained. so yeah maybe unattractive but more attractive than sitting at home doing nothing.

Nope you have lost time the most precious commodity on the planet.

 

[FIZIX Agency]

havent got time to reply to all of that but.
We can afford the start up, and have done. we do sell ourselfs 100% at the moment but theres only so much our small group can do, so quite simply as stated, we are offering extra work to anyone who wants it.

and the comission is a high comission, 33% on each sale actually. I challenge most companies to beat that if im honest

You said; as a startup you can't pay NMW + commission, so whats the issue if you have the capital?

Cant pay them NMW + commission or don't want to take the risk?

I personally see no risk in what either of you have said, do you want to try some work out for a while and see how you go. IF you have NOTHING else to do, then i see no harm in trying. well thats what i would do but maybe im different.
and yes 33% of 0 is 0 and if that happens youve not lost anything or gained. so yeah maybe unattractive but more attractive than sitting at home doing nothing.

Thats the way i see things again

But that's the issue; you can't see what they have to lose, only what YOU have to lose.

You also can't comprehend what they might have to do instead of doing your risky job.


I can think of one good thing they could be doing; erm, maybe looking for a job that will actually pay them a monthly pay cheque; where they know how much is coming in.


The risks for your employee are obvious.

- Zero sales = bills not paid, no food on the table (pretty big risk there)

- Sales equating to less money than they need = financial problems (I wouldn't want that)

- How about personal risk, I know a girl who was doing sales around nightclubs and was sexually assaulted outside a club. Doesn't appeal to everyone you know.

- What if they do well but because of others; the costs aren't met and you go tits up and they are left with no job; job security is important to everyone.


Of course; if you approach this as "they are all lazy oiks who are sat on their arses, I'm doing them a favour" then its pointless discussing as your attitude is all out of whack.

 

[CJDRAMA]

work for a sales company with a pay cheque? no sales = fired
Pay cheque equating to less than they need?
I know a man who works in a bank... he got shot in a robbery.. personal risk is a high one.
what if a company goes bust and everyones made redundant?

You all raise fair points but go about it in a certain way because u think you are the best thing since sliced bread and its so boring.

 

[fisicx]

You all raise fair points but go about it in a certain way because u think you are the best thing since sliced bread and its so boring.

You are young. I was like you once. As I got older I realised that the go gettum attitude didn't work. I'm an old bugger now. And apparently boring. But I'm not! LOL (see what I did there).

 

[Charlie B ACS]

You all raise fair points but go about it in a certain way because u think you are the best thing since sliced bread and its so boring.

No most of us go about things in a certain way because we have learnt from our own mistakes & those of others.

As a start-up offering commission only I'd be concerned about you going pop, or doing a runner, and not seeing the commission from my hard work.

If the way you are selling yourself as an employer is the same way your products are sold, most people will take a dim view of that also.

 

[Billmccallum]

OP, what product or service are you offering?

What's the cost to the customer?

Is the percentage based on sale price, cost price or gross profit?

 

[FIZIX Agency]

work for a sales company with a pay cheque? no sales = fired
Pay cheque equating to less than they need?
I know a man who works in a bank... he got shot in a robbery.. personal risk is a high one.
what if a company goes bust and everyones made redundant?

You all raise fair points but go about it in a certain way because u think you are the best thing since sliced bread and its so boring.

1. At least you hired them legitimately

2. Don't understand why that is a question

3. The guy working in a bank is getting paid above NMW and working unsociable hours and around clubs is notorious for trouble. You can't blame people for not wanting that kind of work.

You seem, in your response to be flippant and to devalue what happens to people too. That's not cool.

4. You are a new company, that makes you statistically a very high risk. If you were a company who had been trading for 10 years and were established, you'd be statistically a much lower risk.

5. Your last remark is just childish.


I'm sorry but you come across as "that guy" who starts a new business and thinks he is Steve Jobs. That guy who thinks it's its normal to offset all the risk onto their employees and give them a rough deal for your own gain; when in reality, those types of business owners are frowned upon by the majority.

 

[arcon5]

I personally see no risk in what either of you have said, do you want to try some work out for a while and see how you go. IF you have NOTHING else to do, then i see no harm in trying. well thats what i would do but maybe im different.
and yes 33% of 0 is 0 and if that happens youve not lost anything or gained. so yeah maybe unattractive but more attractive than sitting at home doing nothing.

But why would people put their benefits (ie their bread and butter, effectively) at risk to take a gamble on YOUR business

 

[ludachris]

So, reading through this thread I have come to one conclusion. CJ you're far to immature to run your own business. You've spent 4 pages of thread disagreeing with logic from about 10 different people. Find the capitol to pay minimum wage and a small commision and then you'll get the applicants you're after.

Also another point is that you've advertised in some average at best places in regard to people searching for a job.

 

[MBE1]

Having worked in many commission only jobs over three decades, hopefully the OP will not take offence at the following.

Your main problem is you are not selling the position well, most people will shy away from commission only work because of the uncertainty of the rewards, you cannot expect people to see things the way you do.

As mentioned by others, new start ups are notoriously unsafe as a bet, why would people risk doing work and possibly not get paid at the end of it? What have they got to lose? Time, effort and self respect for a start.

You need to show yours and others results to demonstrate a decent living can be made, youngsters should be biting your hand off to do the work mentioned, it would be a dream job to many, but you need to know how to sell the idea first.

Unfortunately your inexperience in life in general is letting you down, you need to lose your attitude and take well intentioned advice, when you did after all ask for it.

 

[businessfunding]

Hi CJ,I can see where you coming from, People like us, who set up a small business, are all on commission based salary, ie. No sales, no money, and we have to pay the mortgage etc, and feed the kids and work more hours than any euro directive.But people like us, don't seemed to see in other people the same determination to work hard, as people want the security(Base salary), which we don't enjoy.I think people, have got to used to the good old days, with very well paid public sector jobs, that don't exist nowdays, and staying on benefits are safer and easier. Lazy maybe not, taking the easy road maybe.

Setting up and running your own business is (hopefully) a calculated risk in anticipation of future significant rewards

Working for someone else for free is taking risk in order to give them rewards - hardly comparable!

I would ask the OP:

Have you done the job yourself? If so please quantify what a S/E agent is likely to earn based on your own results.

Would you be prepared to offer shares to the people who are sharing your risk?

 

[matt seymour]

To be honest, it's hardly surprising that there is little or no interest in working for your company, as you are essentially offering potential employees nothing.

What you're basically asking people to do is to assist you in starting a new business, building up a customer base and helping you to establish yourself - and you expect them to do all this with no guarantee of a wage whatsoever.

As people have already said, you are expecting your staff to take all the risks and in return you are offering them a big fat zero.

You can't expect people to be prepared to do this simply because you are. At the end of the day, this is your business, your baby and that is why you are prepared to knock yourself out, take risks or work for nothing to build it up. It is unrealistic of you to expect a similar attitude from potential employees.

Be realistic and offer a wage plus commission or you'll get nowhere.

 

[davidansell]

Well this thread is somewhat funny.
Go advertise on the DWP website.

Also I am 23 and I have children and I would never take that job with no certainty of getting any money.

 

[10032012]

1) You are new - as a new employer you wont attract the same decent employees as those established businesses

2) You advertise a job via "twitter, facebook, word of mouth, leaflets and even gumtree" - ever heard of a job website?

3) If they are actual employees you need to pay them NMW... if they make no commission you still need to pay them for their time. If they are self-employed positions then most people wont become self-employed for you.

4) You still need employers liability insurance although they are working at home

5) Your attitude is disgusting... why would anyone want you as an employer?