Do you need a passport for a job?

[Faevilangel]

My mum went for a new role before xmas and was refused as she didn't have a passport, their HR department said they can't take anyone on if they don't have a passport.

She has a UK driving license and has a national insurance number which I thought was enough to be able to show that she has the right to work in the UK.

Is the company right or are they just over cautious?

 

[Anna Chandley]

There are alternatives to providing a passport. One alternative is to provide a full birth certificate plus an official document issued by previous employer or government department showing the persons name and national insurance number. Full list of acceptable documents can be found here.

 

[KM-Tiger]

According to the UKBA website, you can present a birth certificate together with evidence of an NI number, which could be a document from a previous employer.

So no, a passport is not necessary.

I would have thought your mother could bring a case for unlawful discrimination.

 

[monaghan]

If the job is in the UK and no requirement to go outside the UK on business, I can't see any reason to refuse a non-passport holder.

Guessing the HR can't be bothered to make other checks.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

This is how it is now thanks to our wonderful government issuing massive penalties for employing people who shouldn't be employed.

Welcome to the red tape world

 

[deniser]

A

So no, a passport is not necessary.

I would have thought your mother could bring a case for unlawful discrimination.

Except that it says
"The.best.way.to.make.sure.that.you.do.not.discriminate.is.to.treat.all.job.applicants.in.the.
same way.at.each.stage.of.your.recruitment.process..You.should.ask.all.people.you.are.
looking.to.employ.to.present.their.documents.before.they.start.working.for.you..You.should.not.
make.assumptions.about.a.person’s.right.to.work.in.the.UK.on.the.basis.of.their.background,.
appearance.or.accent"

 

[deniser]

I didn't know anything about this. That's why when I was entering details for a new employee it asked for the passport number.....

 

[Lease4Less]

Yes but a valid UK driving licence, a recent proof of address and a national insurance number is certainly enough proof that they are entitled to work in the UK.

 

[Newchodge]

Yes but a valid UK driving licence, a recent proof of address and a national insurance number is certainly enough proof that they are entitled to work in the UK.[/qu

Not necessarily. What if they used to have the right to work, but that right has expired. They would still have a NI number, UK driving licence and recent address.

 

[Lease4Less]

But a passport wouldn't tell you that their right to work had expired either

 

[Lease4Less]

^^^ Foreign Passport obviously

 

[Newchodge]

If they have a foreign passport they also have to produce documentary evidence of their right to work.

 

[Lease4Less]

Ok, but surely a birth certificate (showing that they were born in the UK), along with a Valid UK driving licence, and a NI number is proof enough. You do not need to produce a Passport.

 

[Newchodge]

A full UK birth certificate is an alternative to a passport.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Except that it says...

Fair point. No tribunal then.

I'm sure it was not the intention of the legislation to create discrimination against UK citizens without passports, but that is clearly what has happened in this case.

I think that is wrong.

 

[deniser]

Fair point. No tribunal then.

I'm sure it was not the intention of the legislation to create discrimination against UK citizens without passports, but that is clearly what has happened in this case.

I think that is wrong.

What's wrong with offering a copy of your birth certificate in lieu of a passport?

 

[Newchodge]

Every job interview I have attended recently has stated that you must bring with you proof of right to work in the UK, and they list what is acceptable, including full UK birth certificate. They also state that if you attend for interview without that proof, that will be the end of the matter - no interview.

Perhaps that is what happened to the OP's mother, and the interviewer used the word passport as shorthand.

 

[Faevilangel]

What's wrong with offering a copy of your birth certificate in lieu of a passport?

They refused to accept the BC as it "can easily be faked" and point blank refused to interview her without a passport.

This is a large multinational retailer btw

 

[Newchodge]

They refused to accept the BC as it "can easily be faked" and point blank refused to interview her without a passport.

This is a large multinational retailer btw

Then I think she has good grounds for a strongly worded letter to the head of HR, perhaps copied to the CEO.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

I would go further and write a letter to both a daily newspaper and also my MP naming the company and what you offered

 

[Faevilangel]

She isn't interested in going further with this but I just wanted clarification as the only "normal" job I had, I turned up with my provisional license and BC and got told I could start the following week.

 

[Steve Sellers]

So long as it's not a British passport they are insisting on I see no issue. They are being cautious but the fines for hiring illegals are massive (10k per illegal).


ps would ignore the advice about going to MP's about this.

 

[patientlady]

I had to recently show my passport for a freelance position , to Verify. I did, but seems rather outrageous to me, when I understand 80% of Americans have never had a passport, what do they do?
Sorry cannot help but wanted to say my two penneth ...

 

[Steve Sellers]

I had to recently show my passport for a freelance position , to Verify. I did, but seems rather outrageous to me, when I understand 80% of Americans have never had a passport, what do they do?
Sorry cannot help but wanted to say my two penneth ...

I don't see why it's outrageous. The employer has to cover its own back. I once applied for the police and you want to see the checks they do......

 

[Faevilangel]

I don't see why it's outrageous. The employer has to cover its own back.

I think it's all a load of codswallop, it's basically stopping people who want to work, from working, she is now on the dole / JSA while she looks for a job, even though she has worked for her whole working life.

The company even had a reference from her last job and worked in the company before as a temp (although more than 5 years ago).

 

[Steve Sellers]

I can understand the frustration but its hardly stopping people who want to work from working. The Company are offering her work, it's just a rather minor and inconsequential obstacle to work. If it was a choice between staying on the dole and getting a passport then it would be a no brainer for me. Hell go to the job centre and I bet they will pay for the passport application if it will mean her getting a job....But I do appreciate the Company may well be unwilling to wait and she has already missed the boat.

Maybe its a case of 'once bitten, twice shy' for the employers.

 

[Richie N]

Yes but a valid UK driving licence, a recent proof of address and a national insurance number is certainly enough proof that they are entitled to work in the UK.

This does not prove their eligibility to work in the UK.

 

[deniser]

Although a birth certificate is one of the accepted documents, that doesn't prove anything either does it unless you were born before 1983?

If you are born after 1983 and you were born inside or outside the UK and your parents were born outside the UK (like my family) you really would need a passport to prove you were British.

If I were the op I would complain to the company concerned on your mother's behalf as a matter of principle as this isn't morally right at all. Forged passports are just as easy to come by as faked birth certificates.

Illegal workers that I have worked alongside many years ago all had forged passports even then and invented national insurance numbers and employers turned a blind eye because they would have no staff otherwise.

 

[japancool]

A driving license doesn't show nationality, does it? I don't know, I don't drive. All it shows is your address and the fact that you can drive. A foreign national can have a UK driving license, and can also have an NI number, even if, for example, their eligibility to live or work in the UK had expired, as long as they got those documents before it expired.

A passport will show their eligibility, as it will have a visa or residence permit in it, with the conditions of stay, or of course, if it's a British or EU passport, even a Romanian or Bulgarian one, then they have the right to work.

 

[Steve Sellers]

If I were the op I would complain to the company concerned on your mother's behalf as a matter of principle as this isn't morally right at all. Forged passports are just as easy to come by as faked birth certificates.

Illegal workers that I have worked alongside many years ago all had forged passports even then and invented national insurance numbers and employers turned a blind eye because they would have no staff otherwise.

Morally right? What has that got to do with the price of bread? The principle is simple - an employer has a legal duty to check the right to work and it has a responsibility to itself and shareholders to ensure it is not fined. A British passport is far more difficult to copy, then say a Pakistani passport or a driving licence (my driving licence looks as though a child has faked it and its real!)

Forged passports are as easy to come by? How do you know this? I can honestly say I have never been offered any forged passports and I have assisted countless asylum seekers (many entered illegally) with helping them fill in forms for the immigration (voluntary basis). Sounds like a presumption to me. You will of course know from your time being a Solicitor that for money laundering purposes Solicitors insist on 2 forms of id.

Faked British passports are extremely expensive due to the difficulty in faking them. By far the most common faked passports are non-eu - mostly Pakistani and Afghani. (they can allegedly be bought for as low as £50). - source immigration solicitor friend.

If anyone thinks this is morally wrong and employs staff you all need to wake up and smell the coffee.

Lets see what HMRC say about acceptable forms of id (this is for money laundering granted but the principle is the same in terms of due diligence)*: -

Complying with customer due diligence requirements
What is customer due diligence?
Customer due diligence means taking steps to identify your customers and checking they are who they say they are. In practice this means obtaining the following from a customer:

• their name
• their photograph on an official document which confirms their identity
• their residential address or date of birth

The best way to do this is to ask for a government issued document like a passport, along with utility bills, bank statements and other official documents. Other sources of customer information include the electoral register and information held by credit reference agencies such as Experian and Equifax.

*but I accept other forms of ID are acceptable in law. (but this is the choice of the employer).

 

[deniser]

Morally wrong not to accept a birth certificate as evidence of the right to work on the grounds that it might be fake when it is listed as an acceptable document in the Government guidance.....

Nowhere did I mention faked British passports. There are many countries in the EU. How would a prospective UK employer know whether a passport or identity card issued by another EU member state was fake any more than a UK birth certificate.

 

[Lease4Less]

This does not prove their eligibility to work in the UK.

Not disagreeing with you Richie, but as a driving licence shows place of birth I am unsure why this wouldn't prove eligibility.

 

[Faevilangel]

Although a birth certificate is one of the accepted documents, that doesn't prove anything either does it unless you were born before 1983?

If you are born after 1983 and you were born inside or outside the UK and your parents were born outside the UK (like my family) you really would need a passport to prove you were British.

If I were the op I would complain to the company concerned on your mother's behalf as a matter of principle as this isn't morally right at all. Forged passports are just as easy to come by as faked birth certificates.

Illegal workers that I have worked alongside many years ago all had forged passports even then and invented national insurance numbers and employers turned a blind eye because they would have no staff otherwise.

She was born in the 60's

She wants to work and pay her way but has no use for a passport and the costs far outweigh the benefits.

 

[Steve Sellers]

Morally wrong not to accept a birth certificate as evidence of the right to work on the grounds that it might be fake when it is listed as an acceptable document in the Government guidance.....

My point is that "morals" have nothing to do with this. If somebody doesn't like it then they can go get a job elsewhere. It may be officious but rather than be too cautious than not cautious about it at all.

Nowhere did I mention faked British passports. There are many countries in the EU. How would a prospective UK employer know whether a passport or identity card issued by another EU member state was fake any more than a UK birth certificate.

I accept you didn't. When I say British I meant EU passport. (they're all effectively the same now). EU passport is sufficient (its in List 1 of home office approved docs). A simple birth certificate IS NOT.

"A full birth certificate issued in the United Kingdom which includes the name(s) of at least one of
the holder’s parents, when produced in combination with an official document giving the person’s
National Insurance Number and their name issued by a Government agency or a previous employer. "

Documents giving the NI number are far more easily faked. So a passport will always be better in practice. I accept that employer doesn't need to take this course of action, but it is within its right subject to not discriminating on the grounds of nationality etc.

 

[Steve Sellers]

She was born in the 60's

She wants to work and pay her way but has no use for a passport and the costs far outweigh the benefits.

What about £80? Are you being serious? No wonder this country is on its knees.

I know if I needed a job I would get the passport, it seems like barriers are self created here.

 

[Faevilangel]

What about £80? Are you being serious? No wonder this country is on its knees.

I know if I needed a job I would get the passport, it seems like barriers are self created here.

£80 is a lot to those with little income, and why should she get a passport when she won't ever use it,

 

[deniser]

My point is that "morals" have nothing to do with this. If somebody doesn't like it then they can go get a job elsewhere. It may be officious but rather than be too cautious than not cautious about it at all.

This is overly officious though. Ridiculously over officious.

There's a flow chart thing you can go through to check eligibility https://www.gov.uk/legal-right-work-uk

It states quite clearly

1. 1Does the worker have a UK passport?
   No
   Change this answer
   
   
2. 2Is the worker:
   a British citizen?
   Change this answer
   

The worker needs to show proof of their permission to work in the UK.
They need to show both:

• an official letter or document from a government agency (eg HM Revenue and Customs, Department for Work and Pensions, or the Social Security Agency in Northern Ireland) showing their National Insurance number
• full birth, adoption certificate or naturalisation certificate

Employers should take a copy of the relevant documents.

And that's it - the total extent of the employer's obligation. It's not for the employer to worry about a cleverly forged document if it looks OK on the face of it.

 

[deniser]

£80 is a lot to those with little income, and why should she get a passport when she won't ever use it,

This is probably another argument in favour of an identity card which the British public haven't, on the whole, wanted.

 

[Nord20]

£80 is a lot to those with little income, and why should she get a passport when she won't ever use it,

But...clearly she will use it....to make it far easier to get a job.

All the company needs to do is say that there is a possibility, at some point in the future, that maybe her job may require her to visit abroad (even Ireland would do it) and so she needs to have a passport.

This is not likely to be only lost opportunity through lack of a passport.

No, the world isn't fair - she needs to play the game: it isn't the company's that are losing out, she is, and if she needs to jump through that particular hoop, she probably just should, fair, moral, ethic, or not.

 

[KM-Tiger]

and if she needs to jump through that particular hoop, she probably just should, fair, moral, ethic, or not.

But why?

It is *not* a legal requirement for a British Citizen to hold a passport. Never has been, and hopefully never will be. We have the freedom to travel anywhere in the world, and that requires a passport, but equally we have the freedom to not travel.

British Citizens also have complete freedom to take a job in the UK.