****** discussion

[Ray272]

I'm a novice will all this ****** stuff I try to take an interest but it is like a new language.

Im Interested in it and it's only just began. There's loads of them and loads of newcomers.

Is anyone else mildly into this type of stuff?

There's a lot of new players coming up there's horses to be backed for pennies that can make some serious returns.

Anyone interested anyone trying to find the next BC and avoid the next 1C?

 

[Bob Morgan]

MattressBANK currently offers the best rates!

 

[Nick Walsh Studios]

Ideas:

Earn about £140 for free at coinbase by looking at videos of crpto coins and taking the easy quiz, sell the other coins (most will be worthless in a few years) and buy £140 of bitcoin and keep for 5 years to see what happens, or until 2040 when the last bitcoin will be mined so no more supply.

Open up your own Bitcoin/Wordpress website to make affiliate money and sell bitcoin related course etc.

Trade bitcoin etc on bitmex or Derebit with stop losses and take profit auto trading, 5% max lose position, x 5 leverage max,

This is not financial advice make your own decisions and do research/education

 

[Porky]

****** trading is an absolute mugs game;

The reason being that the early entrants the “Big Fish” that started the block chain trading of the specific currency control massive chucks of the currency stock and as a result can short it or go long at a moments notice and totally manipulate the price to their advantage, taking you down at the same time.

The bus left the station on ****** two years ago. To punt on the next likely currency you would be better off sticking £500 on one of six dogs in the next dog race and hope for the best.

Anyone that tells you differently is an idiot or out to profit from your inexperience of how ****** trading works - avoid at all costs

 

[Nick Walsh Studios]

Porky: "****** trading is an absolute mugs game;"

Correct if you have not taken the time to get a ****** trading education from the likes of https://www.youtube.com/c/TechnicalRoundup https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-dLWl8etTtPSGdbbcYffGw https://twitter.com/ThinkingUSD

 

[Ray272]

Thanks for the input. I was thinking more in terms of new coin investment or investment into coins which are looking to utilise much lower cost maintenance in the future. I am hearing coins will become much more accessible and maintenance costs are going to dive. Basically the block chain will be maintainable on less than 1% of the current maintenenance cost.

I see a lot of investment into coin based tech I doubt it is over by a longshot.

At this stage of just like to invest into a promising Bitcoin system at a very early stage.

 

[Porky]

Thanks for the input. I was thinking more in terms of new coin investment or investment into coins which are looking to utilise much lower cost maintenance in the future. I am hearing coins will become much more accessible and maintenance costs are going to dive. Basically the block chain will be maintainable on less than 1% of the current maintenenance cost.

I see a lot of investment into coin based tech I doubt it is over by a longshot.

At this stage of just like to invest into a promising Bitcoin system at a very early stage.

Makes possibly more sense than speculating on the actual currency

But you have a lot of horses in the race and technology gets overtaken quickly. You might need more of a scatter gun approach and even then risk something else coming in over the top.

In a crude example, historically for video you had VHS, Betamax and Phillips in the video wars plus a few others that never made production. The Phillips offering was in fact a double sided cassette it was significantly better by a yard mile than the other two main rivals yet ultimately the war was won by VHS as it later secured more film rights than any other and became the winner. Of course its dead now but you could argue that if you got in and out at the right time you would of made a few quid backing VHS but if your decision was just tech based you would of bet your house on the wrong horse Phillips.

I guess fortune favours the brave but I would consider it more a punt rather than an investment at this stage

 

[Stas Lawicki]

****** trading was very frustrating for me.

At the dizzy heights a couple of years ago you could punt on a few things, they'd go through the roof and then you'd be able to stick it into the next coin and hope it did the same. I made a great return on some xrp, sold right at the peak and made 5 x my investment. But there were loads of problems...

The platforms (at the time) were inundated with new users. Sometimes trades would take ages and by that time the price could have soared or slumped. It really was that volitile. Then the fees were becoming ridiculous. Then you couldn't get your crytpo converted back to pounds eailsy (again, without fees), people waited and never got their withdrawals once they did. It was the wild West! I had to track down the CEO of a wallet and threatened legal action - I did get my money out, and not a moment too soon. HSBC decided that they wouldn't accept payments from some ****** accounts and I literally squeezed through at the last minute.

I was up in the end but wouldnt do it now. There are loads of commentators on the forums and platforms and you'll find those that claim to be making millions from scalping dips and rises.

I've still got a handful of coins that are worth less than half a penny that cost me a couple quid. I'm hanging onto to them for not other reason than what else is there to do with worthless currency! Put them in a collection?!

Give it a go. Prepare to lose everything you invest but if you enjoy a challenge you might just do OK.

 

[Ray272]

Makes possibly more sense than speculating on the actual currency

But you have a lot of horses in the race and technology gets overtaken quickly. You might need more of a scatter gun approach and even then risk something else coming in over the top.

In a crude example, historically for video you had VHS, Betamax and Phillips in the video wars plus a few others that never made production. The Phillips offering was in fact a double sided cassette it was significantly better by a yard mile than the other two main rivals yet ultimately the war was won by VHS as it later secured more film rights than any other and became the winner. Of course its dead now but you could argue that if you got in and out at the right time you would of made a few quid backing VHS but if your decision was just tech based you would of bet your house on the wrong horse Phillips.

I guess fortune favours the brave but I would consider it more a punt rather than an investment at this stage

Excellent example thanks for your input and this is the type of scenario I believe is going to be taking place.

There are coins or systems that will pave the way for much lower cost blockchains.

Accessibility is also going to grow massively.

 

[Rawlinson Pryde]

We would recommend you understand how it is taxed before investing.

 

[gpietersz]

I have some experience of this, mostly through having worked on ****** trading systems.

Its not an investment, its speculation. I say that because it is a zero sum gain: you only gain if someone else loses. This is different from, for example, long term investment in shares where the expectation is that people, on average, make money. With ******, people on average, lose nor gain anything, bar having to pay trading fees.

The bus left the station on ****** two years ago. To punt on the next likely currency you would be better off sticking £500 on one of six dogs in the next dog race and hope for the best.

Anyone that tells you differently is an idiot or out to profit from your inexperience of how ****** trading works - avoid at all costs

This is the best advice.

Correct if you have not taken the time to get a ****** trading education from the likes of

Absolutely wrong. These are essentially adapting "technical analysis" that fails to work on stock markets to ****** markets. It is nothing like real quantitative techniques used by hedge funds and banks (not that those always work that well either). A few people make money from this sort of thing through sheer luck (there are a huge number out there, some will make money, just as some gamblers do), and that is it.

its making money out of people who do not understand the maths.

 

[Rawlinson Pryde]

Its not an investment, its speculation. I say that because it is a zero sum gain: you only gain if someone else loses. This is different from, for example, long term investment in shares where the expectation is that people, on average, make money. With ******, people on average, lose nor gain anything, bar having to pay trading fees.

If you are trading between ******’s yes it is a speculative investment (although no different than investing in an AIM oil exploration business) but it is taxable. On your logic share trading is also not taxable! This is why people need advice before undertaking activities, so they know what the tax implications are.

We have seen people with large ****** gains in a tax year creating a large tax bill for the price of the ****** to plummet so the value of the ****** is not even have enough money to pay the tax...

 

[The Byre]

Bitcoin and all the other toy money currencies serve two important economic purposes -

1. They help to launder illegal money.

2, They part fools from their money.

Bitcoin is following a very well-trodden path. I call it 'Ketchup Economics'.

"Oh, beware the ketchup bottle!
First, nothing comes and then a lot'll!"

Whether it's a dotcom or some new idea or novel business model or whatever it might be - first it languishes unnoticed. Then there is ridiculous hype, followed by a price crash and that is followed by a rebound to lower hype-price and then the price yo-yos up and down in crazed volatility as it follows a saw-tooth pattern downhill back to obscurity and ultimate demise.

 

[gpietersz]

If you are trading between ******’s yes it is a speculative investment (although no different than investing in an AIM oil exploration business) but it is taxable. On your logic share trading is also not taxable!

You are entirely missing my point, which is not about tax implications. For some reason you seem have interpreted a reply to the OP and some previous comments as a reply to your comment.

My comment is about the nature of the risks of "investing" in cryptocurrency.

 

[gpietersz]

@Rawlinson Pryde you mau have been mislead by a typo - I wrote "zero sum gain", when I meant "zero sum game" - but I would have thought you would have spotted that was a typo.

 

[gpietersz]

1. They help to launder illegal money.

They are not actually very good for that.

If you can trace transactions linked to a particular wallet, so if you can identify the owner of a wallet you know what they did with it. They only need to slip up once - that is what happened to the people running the Silk Road market.

 

[Nick Walsh Studios]

I repeat get yourself an education before you start trading Bitcoin, good coach is
Nicola Duke
@NicTrades
Trader GenX RAF Veteran Technical Analyst Educator INTJ.

You wouldn't be successful at say being a PC Engineer if you did not have an education first.

Take the Certified Bitcoin Professional exam if you want https://cryptoconsortium.org/certifications/cbp/

Join the free trading courses run by Cred @CryptoCred

Most coins are shite coins but Bitcoin, Ethereum (cuts out the middle person by transactions for car sales, property sales, etc done on the blockchain). are changing how we pay for things, bitcoin you can buy an SSL certificatehttps://www.ssls.com/checkout/bitcoin

Dollar, Sterling will be gone like all other fiat money has disappeared throughout history.

Remember the "Whales" have large amounts of Bitcoin who can manipulate the market at present so a one day price crash of 10% is possible, so stop losses and take profits are essential.

Do your own research and training.

 

[gpietersz]

Dollar, Sterling will be gone like all other fiat money has disappeared throughout history.

Examples?

 

[gpietersz]

Do your own research and training.

Research is meaningless when there are no fundamentals. Making money from ****** trading depends purely on anticipating other people's behaviour. Its not like buying shares where you can make a reasoned argument why you think a share is worth more (or less) than the current price.

 

[fisicx]

Dollar, Sterling will be gone like all other fiat money has disappeared throughout history.

Some local currencies have gone but the prime trading currencies are still here and will be for a long time.

 

[Nick Walsh Studios]

https://i.redd.it/jtp4xgayah111.png

 

[gpietersz]

So? 152 failures over the last millennium!

The value of a fiat currency can be destroyed by economic mismanagement leading to hyperinflation.

The value of a cryptocurrency can be destroyed by people losing interest.

If the UK's was that badly mismanaged hyperinflation would just be one of many problems.

Cryptocurrency has failed to take of as a means of exchange, and is far less stable than even most minor national currencies as a store of value.

 

[Rawlinson Pryde]

So? 152 failures over the last millennium!

The value of a fiat currency can be destroyed by economic mismanagement leading to hyperinflation.

The value of a cryptocurrency can be destroyed by people losing interest.

If the UK's was that badly mismanaged hyperinflation would just be one of many problems.

Cryptocurrency has failed to take of as a means of exchange, and is far less stable than even most minor national currencies as a store of value.

You really should read up on the UK tax laws

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tax-on-cryptoassets/cryptoassets-for-individuals

 

[Rawlinson Pryde]

@Rawlinson Pryde you mau have been mislead by a typo - I wrote "zero sum gain", when I meant "zero sum game" - but I would have thought you would have spotted that was a typo.

By your logic shares still wouldn’t be taxable due to the number of companies that go bust.

 

[gpietersz]

By your logic shares still wouldn’t be taxable due to the number of companies that go bust.

Why?

I said something that has no relevance at all to tax, so I am completely flummoxed that you seem to think it is implying something about tax.

 

[gpietersz]

You really should read up on the UK tax laws

What is that supposed to tell me? That you pay capital gains tax on capital gains? That you pay income tax on trading profits?

I am astonished!

 

[Nick Walsh Studios]

gpletersz :


"While not a lot of places accept Bitcoin directly, it’s clear to see that the adoption of Bitcoin as a payment method is increasing with each year. So while we still have a long way to go until companies will accept Bitcoin directly and not through payment processors or Bitcoin debit cards, you can find big brands like Microsoft ,Expedia and Overstock that have already taken a step in the right direction."

source: https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin/who-accepts/ 27.4.2020

 

[gpietersz]

@Nick Walsh Studios lots of limitations:

"When you redeem Bitcoin to deposit funds into your Microsoft account, you can use it to purchase games, movies, and apps in the Windows and Xbox stores. You cannot use these funds to purchase items in the Microsoft online store."

KFC Canada did it as a promotion, for a limited time, and only online.

Can I use bitcoin anywhere I actually shop? Major supermarkets (any or Tesco, Spar, Waitrose, Sainsbury), the local farm shop, Ebay, Amazon....?

Given bitcoin processing times how long will I need to wait in a shop while the payment goes through?

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

Its not a currency, its a trade-able commodity.

 

[Nick Walsh Studios]

"Speed: Settlement time for lightning network transactions is under a minute and can occur in milliseconds." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light...e for lightning,every ten minutes, on average.

 

[billybob99]

Can I use bitcoin anywhere I actually shop? Major supermarkets (any or Tesco, Spar, Waitrose, Sainsbury), the local farm shop, Ebay, Amazon....?

No, but you can tell everyone you have a high net worth and will be worth billions next year.

 

[fisicx]

....you can find big brands like Microsoft ,Expedia and Overstock that have already taken a step in the right direction.

https://news.bitcoin.com/expedia-drops-bitcoin-payments-official-confirms/

Until I can walk into Tesco and make a touchless payment ****** currencies will not replace Sterling.

 

[gpietersz]

"Speed: Settlement time for lightning network transactions is under a minute and can occur in milliseconds.

So the technology exists, but its still to gain traction: https://cryptonews.com/exclusives/i...network-ready-to-replace-altcoin-use-6511.htm

No, but you can tell everyone you have a high net worth and will be worth billions next year.

I knew a guy who some years later I saw got into the Sunday times rich list by telling them he had developed cryptography software worth billions. He actually owned a computer shop - he had two or three employees (a van driver and a salesman or two). He even published the accounts on his website but he still fooled journalists, bought a Ferrari on credit, and got an Amex Black/Centurian card

He had photos of the Amex card and the Ferrari on the company website!

He ended up fleeing the country - and he still claims that he was being framed by MI5 because his technology was so good - I think he has psychological problems.

 

[Nick Walsh Studios]

Lots of ****** scammers are rightly in jail now especially n USA.

John McAfee shilled hundreds of different coin which were worthless.

HODL a little bit of bitcoin see what its worth 2030, 2040

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

https://news.bitcoin.com/expedia-drops-bitcoin-payments-official-confirms/

Until I can walk into Tesco and make a touchless payment ****** currencies will not replace Sterling.

The acid test among economists is whether you can pay your taxes with it, but the point is the same I guess. Real world applications.

 

[mattk]

Open a Coinbase account and buy £100 worth of whatever coin you fancy. Then go on to Coinbase Pro and trade it around. You don't need to go on a course. The mechanics of trading are easy to pick up and no one will teach you what to buy and when - if they knew that they wouldn't be running courses, they'd be living on a private island.

As others have said, ****** is pure speculation. There are no real world applications (yet) and they will never become currency as they are simply too volatile.

As for picking the next bitcoin, good luck. You can read whitepapers for altcoins, but they all make fantastical claims which are rarely lived up to in reality.

Personally, I hold a little bit of chainlink, mainly because it was getting some traction with Microsoft and Google.

 

[garyk]

The bus left the station on ****** two years ago. To punt on the next likely currency you would be better off sticking £500 on one of six dogs in the next dog race and hope for the best.

Yeah which dog though?

My ****** advice is simple....buy low sell high.

OK simple advice but not easy....

 

[BashirJasper]

****** trading is an absolute mugs game;

The reason being that the early entrants the “Big Fish” that started the block chain trading of the specific currency control massive chucks of the currency stock and as a result can short it or go long at a moments notice and totally manipulate the price to their advantage, taking you down at the same time.

The bus left the station on ****** two years ago. To punt on the next likely currency you would be better off sticking £500 on one of six dogs in the next dog race and hope for the best.

Anyone that tells you differently is an idiot or out to profit from your inexperience of how ****** trading works - avoid at all costs

Well, you might be right but do you know that a lot of people make huge money off ****** trading once your TA is reliable? You might disagree but if you wanna know how, I can walk you through though it is not entirely safe-proof because there are also risk involved. And once you can manage those risks effectively then you might just wanna be a fulltime ****** trader like some of us right now

 

[BashirJasper]

Blockchain is an amazing technology if you have used it before. It gives you absolute freedom of your financial transactions and also protect your privacy. It also allows you to earn passively like staking and participation in airdrop events.
Once I decided to be a part of this revolution, I did a lot of research which has been my guiding principle to date. Yeah, DYOR meaning Do Your Own Research; never listen to anyone's advice. Second thing I did was to select one or two of these reliable global exchanges - that wasn't easy though because I had to settle with Binance, OKX and Bitget for their peculiarity in the industry.
The third thing I did was to learn more about trading and investing and that lead me to Fundamental and Technical Analysis; tried to master them and started my daily trading whilst investing from time to time using an effective DCA method

 

[Clinton]

... if you wanna know how, I can walk you through

Yes, please, tell us.