I don't care what the OP or the link say. I've never met anyone who does, and I don't believe it.
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Dilemma or dilemna?
- Thread starter mindatrisk
- Start date
I don't care what the OP or the link say. I've never met anyone who does, and I don't believe it.
T
The Byre
Lots of people don't know the difference between revenue and profit. Lots of people spell 'damn' as 'damm'. Lots of people can't identify an adverb in a sentence. Lots of people think that anything on the Internet is free to use as it is in 'public domain'. Lots of people don't know the difference between there, their an they're or of and off.
Let's face it - there are lots of stupid people out there!
So?
Let's face it - there are lots of stupid people out there!
So?
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I think your write Mr Byre. You're posts are always entertaining.
And lots of people think because it's on the internet it must be true.
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What mystery?
People were taught the wrong spelling in the past and now know how to spell it properly. Some however refuse to admit their version is wrong.
People were taught the wrong spelling in the past and now know how to spell it properly. Some however refuse to admit their version is wrong.
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T
The Byre
Mystery? What mystery? It's just a popular mistake.
Standardised spelling is a fairly modern invention. Prior to that, we based spelling on historical information, which gave us a certain amount of leeway. Thus was damn always with an N, as it is short for damnation and the original spelling of show was shew, derived from the middle/old-English word scēawian. Dilemma came from the Greek word dilemma, meaning between two possibilities, di-lemma.
Standardised spelling is a fairly modern invention. Prior to that, we based spelling on historical information, which gave us a certain amount of leeway. Thus was damn always with an N, as it is short for damnation and the original spelling of show was shew, derived from the middle/old-English word scēawian. Dilemma came from the Greek word dilemma, meaning between two possibilities, di-lemma.
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- Original Poster
- #49
I think the mystery is how.
How is it that so many people, in so many different geographical areas, over such large amounts of time, most who were taught by school teachers to include the 'n', some of whom participated and won spelling bees, who then spent lives and careers never once coming across the correct spelling, some of whom having careers in high education, only to one day discover their spell check is giving the ol' red squiggly...?
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- Original Poster
- #50
Dictionaries dating back hundreds of years have all had the 'dilemma' spelling. This web site summaries what the 'n' spellers think and feel about this best. It's also worth reading the comments. If there is another word that has created this kind of stir then, please, show me. As it stands, this is an oddity, shared by both 'dilemma' and 'dilemna' spellers once looked into.
http://dilemna.info
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T
The Byre
I keep coming across people who think that they can use the so-called Poor Man's Copyright, in which one puts the work to be protected in an envelope and posts it to oneself per registered mail. I have even come across one ding-bat IP lawyer in Edinburgh who recommended this practice. The fact that anybody can send themselves an empty envelope or just alter the contents and reseal it has never occurred to them, though it has occurred to the courts who repeatedly throw such 'evidence' out.
Who first came up with this misconception? I don't know! But it just keeps on reappearing, even in the US, where registration is more or less mandatory, if one is to litigate.
People think all sorts of things that are just bogus!
Occasionally, people spell occasionally occasionaly or occasionally and you will find that even more people spell dilemma with just one M.
So?
Who first came up with this misconception? I don't know! But it just keeps on reappearing, even in the US, where registration is more or less mandatory, if one is to litigate.
People think all sorts of things that are just bogus!
Occasionally, people spell occasionally occasionaly or occasionally and you will find that even more people spell dilemma with just one M.
So?
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People all over the world are taught that the atom is like a tiny solar system with the nucleus as the star and the electrons as planets. This model has been wrong for over 100 years but still the myth persists.
People still believe the world was created in 40004BC despite all the evidence to the contrary.
People still spell words wrong even if the dictionary says otherwise.
There is no mystery and there is no stir. The population size in the various fora is miniscule, not enough to cause a blip on a Scooby Do Mystery Meter.
People still believe the world was created in 40004BC despite all the evidence to the contrary.
People still spell words wrong even if the dictionary says otherwise.
There is no mystery and there is no stir. The population size in the various fora is miniscule, not enough to cause a blip on a Scooby Do Mystery Meter.
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In fairness to the Americans, hood & trunk make more sense than bonnet & boot.
English wasn't invented by us, it was named for the amalgam languages that began to standardise in 'recent' history. Languages diverge, that's just the nature of the beast, although it does annoy me that often the only option when installing software is "English (US)".
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For over 100 years? When *was* it 'correct' then!?
This is what Terry Pratchett amusingly referred to as "lies to children", and is an effective way of relaying information to people without expertise or comprehensive knowledge. There's no point explaining to a twelve year old that where the electrons appear is based on probability and that there's a small probability that they won't be there at all. That's not helpful information for most people, but can always be corrected or built upon later on if needed.
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T
The Byre
The fact is (now that we have strayed off into US v. UK English) that English English is changing rapidly, whereas US English is closer to the English spoken and written a couple of hundred years ago.
I left this country in the 60s and when I returned, I discovered that all kinds of words had either been invented or were pronounced differently. Garage used rhyme with large, dynasty used to be die-nass-ty and not dinn-as-ty and all sorts of non-words seem to have crept into use, like on-going and not-fit-for-purpose. Worst of all, all sorts of euphemisms and 'initialisms' and abridgements are everywhere, to the extent that nobody seems to be able to use simple English any more.
"I have a B&M on the High Street ." No! You have a shop! "We have 12 internal stakeholders!" No my friend, you have 12 staff. He is not a 'front-line manager', he is a salesman! Some of my army buddies did not have PTSD, they had shell-shock. It's not sensitivity coefficient, it's risk!
As for cars, we used to call those parts hood, trunk and fender on horse-drawn coaches, I have no idea where all that bonnet, boot and wing came from, but I bet it was some idiotic marketing Wally getting cute!
OK, much of US English stems from German Americans making mistakes or not finding equivalent words for German expressions and constructions, such as 'get of off the horse' (steig ab vom Pferd) and the magnificent word critter for a stray dog from the German 'Koeter'.
P.S. Without a fender, you can't have a fender-bender!
I left this country in the 60s and when I returned, I discovered that all kinds of words had either been invented or were pronounced differently. Garage used rhyme with large, dynasty used to be die-nass-ty and not dinn-as-ty and all sorts of non-words seem to have crept into use, like on-going and not-fit-for-purpose. Worst of all, all sorts of euphemisms and 'initialisms' and abridgements are everywhere, to the extent that nobody seems to be able to use simple English any more.
"I have a B&M on the High Street ." No! You have a shop! "We have 12 internal stakeholders!" No my friend, you have 12 staff. He is not a 'front-line manager', he is a salesman! Some of my army buddies did not have PTSD, they had shell-shock. It's not sensitivity coefficient, it's risk!
As for cars, we used to call those parts hood, trunk and fender on horse-drawn coaches, I have no idea where all that bonnet, boot and wing came from, but I bet it was some idiotic marketing Wally getting cute!
OK, much of US English stems from German Americans making mistakes or not finding equivalent words for German expressions and constructions, such as 'get of off the horse' (steig ab vom Pferd) and the magnificent word critter for a stray dog from the German 'Koeter'.
P.S. Without a fender, you can't have a fender-bender!
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I see this kind of ignorance all the time. In fact, American forms have conserved several English language features that British English lost, e.g.
UK: to get - GET (present), GOT (past participle), GOT (past tense)
US: to get - GET (present), GOTTEN (past participle), GOT (past tense)
Most forms of British English simplified and lost the past participle, but BritEng reserves it in set phrases such as "ill-gotten gains", and in verbs that share the stem, such as FORGOT-TEN, BEGOT-TEN.
British English also uses "got" redundantly with "to have" - "I've got", "Has she got...?" whereas American forms are much closer to older British English forms: "I have", "does she have...?"
Lastly, see if you can avoid using these Americanisms: commute, biker, teenager, etc.
By the way, the word dilemma isn't even English, but Latin. As you know, English was almost replaced by Norman French from 1066 for nearly 300 years and took on 1000s of French and Latin words. English is 60% French. Beef is from French boeuf. Dance is French. Challenge is old French. File is from old French, meaning row. Advertise is Latin which came to us via French. Contact, Area, Bus, Dedicate, Suppress, Move, Plant, the same. Like I said, English is 60% French/Latin.
Look up any word on the website "etymonline" and you'll realize just how English English isn't. By the way, without the Dutch and French invasions, English would look like German does today, with two words for you (thu became thou, after the viking "invasions" in 900 then died out after the Norman French invasion. It's from German Du.), various inflections and declensions, verb tenses, etc.
It really irks me when Brits get all uppity without knowing the history of "English".
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Ian J, you have a "choice", you can either:
- use the Americanism "bike" (and biker), or "teenager"
- use the Latin "bicycle" or "adolescent"
- use the plain English "twowheel" or "youth" (which is what they use in German, German is English without the French and Dutch invasions and simplification)
- use the Americanism "bike" (and biker), or "teenager"
- use the Latin "bicycle" or "adolescent"
- use the plain English "twowheel" or "youth" (which is what they use in German, German is English without the French and Dutch invasions and simplification)
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T
The Byre
60% of all the words listed in any English dictionary may be of Latin/French origin, but most of the words in any given text are far more likely to be of Germanic origin. English is a Germanic language, albeit a somewhat simplified one - no more genders (we used to have five!) and little use of the dative, genitive and accusative cases.
(The first paragraph has been colour-coded for German and Latin/French origins!)
German too has about half of all words listed in a dictionary coming from Latin/French, but simply because the aristocracy spoke French and soon the middle classes thought that to use a French word, where a perfectly adequate German word would do, was a sign of sophistication. Abteilung became 'Department' (pronounced the French way) and it took two world wars to go back to Abteilung.
P.S. A motorbike is a 'Motorrad' in German and a bicycle is a 'Fahrrad', very occasionally, one says 'Zweirad' - two-wheeler. Personally, I prefer 'Drahtesel' (wire donkey).
(The first paragraph has been colour-coded for German and Latin/French origins!)
German too has about half of all words listed in a dictionary coming from Latin/French, but simply because the aristocracy spoke French and soon the middle classes thought that to use a French word, where a perfectly adequate German word would do, was a sign of sophistication. Abteilung became 'Department' (pronounced the French way) and it took two world wars to go back to Abteilung.
P.S. A motorbike is a 'Motorrad' in German and a bicycle is a 'Fahrrad', very occasionally, one says 'Zweirad' - two-wheeler. Personally, I prefer 'Drahtesel' (wire donkey).
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D
Deleted member 59730
Including my new local MP who is on the government's Science and Technology Committee. http://derekthomas.org/derek-thomas-elected-to-science-and-technology-select-committee/
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