Darren, banning those members is ridiculous!

One last attempt before bed (or before I put Mr Wordpress through the window)

The situation in question is not like the others you are all describing. This is not some simple pitching of a new forum. This is the way I see this.....

This one developed out of a few people trying to change the fundamental way UKBf works, and its core values. Then when this wasn't happening, they chose to go set up their own forum (after trying out another one (or 2?)).

This is fine in itself, but then there seemed to be a concerted effort to try to make people move to the new forum, a choice they seemed to have to make really - like a them & us thing - and not by the normal means.

This was all punctuated by some members, who obviously batted for the new forum, constantly being hostile and trying to score points in normal info threads.

Added to that some personal insults flying around, and slagging on other sites, etc - and you have a situation which imho the management could no longer tolerate.

If it was my forum, I'd have had the red cards out a fortnight ago (maybe not all the same people, but then I only know what I saw, and some of them never bothered me at all).

This discussion is pointless, and another misuse of forum & our time really. The mgt made their choice, and some will support it, some won't - they have the right to their choice though, so lets drop it and move on.

No offence Patsy, you have made 2 posts on this forum, and unless you have been an ardent watcher of the antics, I do not feel you have enough information to be coming up with such negative opinions. You will find that people tend to be negative if they think you haven't done your homework.

Thats me rant over, still in "I hate blogging" mode, but am off to bed.

 

[Rob Holmes]

<< Moved to Feedback & Help Forums >>

Other forums have been around way before UKBF and more and more are setting up each day - this is not the problem. If you search back far enough in the UKBF posts you'll see members asking for recomendations of other similar forums with a host of links to them. I think this got overabused a couple of years back and the rules were tightened.

What is a problem is when members start abusing the private messaging system and sending unsolicited PM's to other members in order to try and convince them that they should be joining their forum.

People don't like spam in their email inbox and these PM's are just the equivalent to exactly that.

If people try to abuse our members in this way and the mods just left it then we would be accused of either not caring, approving of their actions by ignoring them and allowing them to carry on, or both.

So I prefer the way taken of ensuring members aren't spammed, by Chinese Fake-Nike sales people, other forum owners with a chip on their shoulder or anyone else for that matter.

I'm really sure the vast majority of UKBF Members appreciate being protected from spam and don't want to get embroilled in other peoples fights.

Rob

 

[Rusty]

The situation in question is not like the others you are all describing. This is not some simple pitching of a new forum. This is the way I see this.....

This one developed out of a few people trying to change the fundamental way UKBf works, and its core values. Then when this wasn't happening, they chose to go set up their own forum (after trying out another one (or 2?)).

This is fine in itself, but then there seemed to be a concerted effort to try to make people move to the new forum, a choice they seemed to have to make really - like a them & us thing - and not by the normal means.

This was all punctuated by some members, who obviously batted for the new forum, constantly being hostile and trying to score points in normal info threads.

Added to that some personal insults flying around, and slagging on other sites, etc - and you have a situation which imho the management could no longer tolerate.

Never was a truer word spoken.

There is absolutely nothing wrong being a member of different forums, especially if you are in business, every little helps. In fact, there are several members on here who have their own forum linked to in their sig. Nothing wrong with that and perfectly acceptable.

As Comspec said, this situation was entirely different and the people concerned behaved (IMHO) in an extremely underhand and nasty way, especially given the way Darren has continuously endeavoured to meet the needs and wants of all the members on UKBF.

Kerry

 

[ADW]

I think you will find that is a piece of convenient " misinformation"

You are right. I was talking about the other forum they all joined before launching as that one is openly a free for all so my apologies.

 

[Rhyl Lightworks]

This is interesting. I posted a pm to one of the supposedly banned members a couple of days ago, asking for a quote on some printing I want doing. I wondered why I had not had a reply and, having read this thread, now find he is no longer a member.
I do not intend chasing this person over other forums or where-ever, so he has already lost some potential business as a result of being banned.
Incidentally, if there are any printers on here who would like to quote for one or two thousand NCR 2 part invoices and some business cards (I have the artwork) please pm me.
Barrie

 

[awebapart.com]

And it was nazism that promoted the idea, of ratting on others!

Oh how this thread has followed Godwin's Law - the rule which states that as a discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler gets higher. I'm just very surprised that the comparison arose in the very first post of this thread!

Yes there is freedom of speech to consider, but I also have no interest whatsoever in participating in a forum where people can freely spam others or where moderation is not present (those sort of forums just wont work IMO), so keep up the good moderating work UKBF. I think the UKBF do a very good job of moderating this forum.

As for underhand techniques used for promoting another forum, I do not understand why this was done when there are plenty of other more subtle, more open, better ways that a new forum could have been promoted on this forum, which could have abided by this forum's terms and conditions (e.g. press release, links in signatures, hyperlinks in posts to related content), which could have kept everyone happy with a win-win situation.

 

[DuaneJackson]

I was going to post my opinion, but comspec pretty much summed it up above. But in addition....

There's no over-zelous censorship on this site. If there was, this thread wouldn't still be running.

The guys that have been banned were a very vocal minority here. Virtually all of the disagreements here on how the forums have been run can be traced back to a small handulf of individuals. There's no problem with other sites being linked to and recommended, etc. There are plenty of threads recommending other forums.

The issue here is that a few members were openly abusing UKBF by PMing people to promote their new forum - both newbies here and established members. This isn't speculation, it's fact. They have an area on their own forum that they I think they think is private (invite only), but due to a configuration error I've been able to read the posts there.

I doubt Sift see the other forum as a threat, but I don't see why they should stand for the behaviour being exhibited (ie, deliberatley causing arguments here then saying "hey, come to our place where there are no arguments"). Bottom line is it's out of order.

I genuinely hope that their pawn becomes a queen in time, but I'm sure they can get there without being unethical and abusing other forums.

 

[brownie]

Those complaining about the censorship/moderation in these forums clearly have little experience in using other forums.

 

[Calibre Designs]

I doubt Sift see the other forum as a threat, but I don't see why they should stand for the behaviour being exhibited (ie, deliberatley causing arguments here then saying "hey, come to our place where there are no arguments"). Bottom line is it's out of order. In Rays own words on this subject:
[ quote removed - DuaneJackson]

Hi Duane,

Mixture of feelings from everyone on this thread. Its just human nature I guess.

I am sure that lots more has been said behind the scenes. You quoting a single sentence would allow the situation to be taken out of context. I am not saying that this is happening here. I don't know. Its just a possibility. Without allowing members to consider the whole picture, this will always be the case.

Besides, if you are naming individual members then at least allow them to defend themselves. The argument will always be one sided imo. If this is not going to be the case then I suggest we keep names under cover.

Just my thoughts on this thats all.

Kay

 

[maria102]

I didn't bother watching the telly last night, just tuned in here..

 

[DuaneJackson]

Hi Kay,

Good point. I'll remove my quotes.

It's an open secret who the main person is, so I don't see any problem in naming him.

 

[Calibre Designs]

Thanks Duane!

 

[KidsBeeHappy]

If this was your business what would you do? You would protect it wouldn't you!
I have no argument with anyone but it is usually common practice for forums not to allow any promotion of any other fourms in direct competition to themselves, its common sense really

I have regularly seen posts by other forum owners, who use their forum link in their signature on UKBF. Asking for advice about techincal issues, programming issues etc, discussing SEO, spidering of forums, etc etc etc.

Does this the ban mean that these members are also no longer allowed to Post?

 

[DuaneJackson]

I have regularly seen posts by other forum owners, who use their forum link in their signature on UKBF. Asking for advice about techincal issues, programming issues etc, discussing SEO, spidering of forums, etc etc etc.

Does this the ban mean that these members are also no longer allowed to Post?

There's no problem with other sites being linked to and recommended, etc. There are plenty of threads recommending other forums.

The issue here is that a few members were openly abusing UKBF by PMing people to promote their new forum

Hopefully that answers this for you.

 

[ImproveSearchListings]

They simply didn't want me - no PM .

I wouldn't have gone anyway, but it hurts when you aren't invited to the party......

 

[Dawg]

They simply didn't want me - no PM .

I wouldn't have gone anyway, but it hurts when you aren't invited to the party......

Don't worry. They didn't invite me either, or Mr Oasis. No secret squirrell PMs, no 'lets be best friends', nada.
And I so wanted to be friends with a green businessman who drives a yellow Merc sports. Life is so cruel.

 

[Games4Business]

Fun and games. To be honest, to know a forum you must be on a forum. Word of mouth has to come from somewhere and I'm surprised that this thread has continued and should have been closed from the first posting, rather than turning this into entertainment. What has been done has been done. Close it or remove it and move on people. Why bring in people to the discussion that knew nothing of what has gone on, it's just not good for business? or is it...

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

I received the message from a friend of mine so I didn't see an harm in it, certainly didn't consider it unsolicited, it was part of a PM conversation we were having.

I think it's fair enough that the rules have to be enforced when matters like this arise. However I'm just wondering if the people involved were messaged and told to stop, but then continued and were therefore banned?

It seems to me like this sudden ban was more of a punishment than anything else. I think it's worked more against UKBF as a community by taking away at least one very valuable member who provided a lot of help, advice and discussions.

Did the people involved get suitable warnings first?

 

[dave_n]

i've been out of the loop for a while....and without sounding lazy can anyone fill me in as to whats happened....in 50 words or less!

 

[HC-Martin]

Close it or remove it and move on people.

The problem with this is everytime a thread like this pops up and it's locked and people still want to have their say - they just start another thread that just prolongs the pain for the rest of us.

I think it's good that this thread has been allowed to continue, so people can say what they think. Otherwise, if closed, it would just begin somewhere else. Once people have said all they need to, the thread will die off and those that don't want to read it don't have to.

Constantly closing threads because people don't want to discuss things is pointless IMHO, people just bring it up elsewhere!

Sorry - just my 2p.

 

[DuaneJackson]

I received the message from a friend of mine so I didn't see an harm in it, certainly didn't consider it unsolicited, it was part of a PM conversation we were having.

I think it's fair enough that the rules have to be enforced when matters like this arise. However I'm just wondering if the people involved were messaged and told to stop, but then continued and were therefore banned?

It seems to me like this sudden ban was more of a punishment than anything else. I think it's worked more against UKBF as a community by taking away at least one very valuable member who provided a lot of help, advice and discussions.

Did the people involved get suitable warnings first?

Hi Scott,

Theres no implication that it was unsolicited. It was just systematic recruitment of people from here to join another forum.

It certainly wasn't a sudden ban. The person in question was being rather duplicitous in my opinion. By having friendly conversations with myself, other mods and Sift implying one thing and then posting on the other forum (in what he thought was private) basically suggesting that he was playing everyone to his own end.

The problem with this is everytime a thread like this pops up and it's locked and people still want to have their say - they just start another thread that just prolongs the pain for the rest of us.

I think it's good that this thread has been allowed to continue, so people can say what they think. Otherwise, if closed, it would just begin somewhere else. Once people have said all they need to, the thread will die off and those that don't want to read it don't have to.

Constantly closing threads because people don't want to discuss things is pointless IMHO, people just bring it up elsewhere!

Sorry - just my 2p.

I agree totally.

 

[Markb]

They simply didn't want me - no PM .

I wouldn't have gone anyway, but it hurts when you aren't invited to the party......

I wouldn't worry about it. The members concerned are so far up their own a***s it must be like living in constant darkness. Regardless of the rights and wrongs regarding their bans it'll make a welcome change to read posts they haven't artificially extended with their banal comments.

 

[dave_n]

erm...what happened?

 

[reggiemental]

Someone got banned.

 

[DuaneJackson]

erm...what happened?

Don't be lazy. You're as bad as my better half getting of the laptop an hour into the film and saying "so what's happening then?" : )

 

[Games4Business]

You have a point there. But it does get a bit boring after a while I'm sure people have better things to do, like running or discussing business. Having a concentrated thread just keeps fueling it, but I guess a point needs to be made, and this thread will eventually die out and be forgotten.

The problem with this is everytime a thread like this pops up and it's locked and people still want to have their say - they just start another thread that just prolongs the pain for the rest of us.

I think it's good that this thread has been allowed to continue, so people can say what they think. Otherwise, if closed, it would just begin somewhere else. Once people have said all they need to, the thread will die off and those that don't want to read it don't have to.

Constantly closing threads because people don't want to discuss things is pointless IMHO, people just bring it up elsewhere!

Sorry - just my 2p.

 

[HC-Martin]

But it does get a bit boring after a while

Yes it does. But I feel the reason it keeps coming up is because threads are closed before people have finished saying what they want to say - so when another similar one pops up, it all starts again!

 

[AdamW]

which seems pointless to me. Banning happens. New forums happen. Lets everyone just move on. Just my thoughts of course.

 

[stugster]

Do we not have businesses to run?

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

That's fair enough really. I just think UKBF has done more harm to itself by doing it this way. If they were told to stop and they did then UKBF would still have the input of those members without the PM spam. If they're banned then UKBF will have lost those additional (quite valuable) members of the community, and probably alienated a few more of the other forums members too.

It certainly wasn't a sudden ban. The person in question was being rather duplicitous in my opinion. By having friendly conversations with myself, other mods and Sift implying one thing and then posting on the other forum (in what he thought was private) basically suggesting that he was playing everyone to his own end.

 

[Gillie]

Scott I refer you to Comspec's answer on this topic ... it explains it!

 

[danmaull]

are these people banned forever?

 

are these people banned forever?

I hope so.

 

That's fair enough really. I just think UKBF has done more harm to itself by doing it this way. If they were told to stop and they did then UKBF would still have the input of those members without the PM spam. If they're banned then UKBF will have lost those additional (quite valuable) members of the community, and probably alienated a few more of the other forums members too.

They've been at it for weeks taking the p**s, IMO it's about time something was done about them. I'd hardly call their posts valuable either.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

I haven't noticed anything like this myself, I must take more notice at times

Does anyone have any examples of what's been going on they can show or send me? I'd like to have the correct viewpoint of all this.

They've been at it for weeks taking the p**s, IMO it's about time something was done about them. I'd hardly call their posts valuable either.

 

[Calibre Designs]

They've been at it for weeks taking the p**s, IMO it's about time something was done about them. I'd hardly call their posts valuable either.

Just returned home to catch up with this thread.


"Their quotes valuable" ?? Can you please mention some names to me please either here or by PM.

As far as I have found, every member on here that gives advice is valuable.

 

[Matt1959]

this issue is never going to be put to bed as members that belong to one or the other or both forums will have their own agendas when posting here. Myself, I'm one that wasn't invited and I wouldn't have joined had I been.

However, it was very easy to go there and have a read within a couple of days of the new place being set up and certainly there are strong feelings from a cross section of people that have joined about what UKBF is all about and most of it is negative - you just need to read the little comments that get dropped in.

Seems to me, we should take a leaf out their book and get the PR machine in motion and get welcoming new members to here and encourage them to post so this place can continue to grow. The Internet is open to all and in the words of a certain marketing man, "you can't wall garden the internet". In the end, people will gravitate to the place that best serves them, much the same as in business - so its the best Forum that wins and all that

 

[KidsBeeHappy]

I feel quite sad when new members come on and in they're first thread they're ambushed. So people ask silly questions - that the point. Everyone here is an expert on something, and a question to one person that seems ridiculously obvious may be someone else be the thing that's kept them awake at night worrying about.

Forums are supposed to be about sharing information, and I think at time there is an inclination to "tell" or "lecture" or "correct" rather than to "assist" or "help".

I came to this forum with absolutely zilch SEO knowledge, until this week I couldn't even access my website to correct the faults. And I know that I ask questions in this area that seem so very very basic to other members. I have received the odd "terse" reply to questions posted, which then deters me from asking other questions.

There is nothing personal when someone starts a thread. They are not asking (maybe sometimes obvious questions) in order to upset people, it is simply information that they are after. OK, yes, we all get fed up with the "Can you do my homework for me" questions, but please remember that not everyone in business has the same skills set.

My husband has run his own business for over 20years, a sucessful, profitable and sustained business in a very fluid market. But he can't write an email, he can't write a letter on word, doens't know what Excel is, and is not exactly sure where "f" is on the keyboard, and has only recently learnt how to get the search results he wants out of google! If he came here to ask advice on such as basic question as these things, at present, I can't feel confident that he wouldn't receive some of the "go away and come back when .........." kind of answers.

It's very easy to be authoritative in the areas that you know about, but I feel that people come to forums to share and to ask, for suggestions, not lectures and dressing downs. The forum should be proud that people can come here and ask the obvious questions.

Anyway, my 2p, the one that GB has not taken off me for a litre of fuel!!

Sandra

 

[stugster]

Sandra,

You make bl**dy brilliant points. And I'll admit to being one of those people who are quick to lecture or correct. Having said that, I only do so in a manner that I hope will help the individual to improve, or to push their business forward in a professional manner.

The irony is, I'm probably the example of how NOT to do it!

 

[KidsBeeHappy]

I myself have a tendancy to be a bossy c*w, and so have to temper it. There are a few times that I hit the cancel button and decide not to post, as I realise that I am posting more because there is something that i want to say, rather than to answer the question raised.