Chinese virus
- Thread starter Chris Ashdown
- Start date
Trouble is the media seek to find blame and praise individuals or pin them up on the wall to throw darts at. Reporting is designed to create reaction.
The undertaker looking after my mum was shocked yesterday. He went to pick my mum up from the hospital. He told me occasionally they meet another undertaker, but he sat in a queue and counted 40 coffins coming out. Never seen it in his entire career. The papers won't report this, it's depressing. Find a minister for paper clip distribution and shoot them because they don't know facts way, way outside their remit.
The undertaker looking after my mum was shocked yesterday. He went to pick my mum up from the hospital. He told me occasionally they meet another undertaker, but he sat in a queue and counted 40 coffins coming out. Never seen it in his entire career. The papers won't report this, it's depressing. Find a minister for paper clip distribution and shoot them because they don't know facts way, way outside their remit.
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Could you do better? If so, do you plan to stand at the next election?
Don't blame the government for everything. A lot of the current problems stem from incompetent managers and a lack of personal responsibility. And not just in the UK. My offspring live in Germany and they are having a huge problem with pensioners meeting up for coffee and a chat.
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No at all, and I'm not blaming the Government for anything. In fact the thing that annoys me the most is the opposition blaming the Government and saying it should have been handled better.
My comment was directed at the fact that we've got about two dozen people posting in this thread that sound like they probably would stand at the next election given half the chance.
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They have just been too slow. At this moment there are companies out there fitting out 500 ex lease vans. Turning them into mobile testings centres.
They only started last saturday.
All in order, so those clowns can no doubt say they have capacity to test 100k day
Why did they only start last saturday?
They only started last saturday.
All in order, so those clowns can no doubt say they have capacity to test 100k day
Why did they only start last saturday?
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No. We used to build vastly over engineered bridges because no one knew any different, apart from the ones that have already failed such as the Tay Bridge. It certainly wasn't rocket science. That's why so many are able to cope with vastly increased loadings to this day. Nowadays we design much more graceful structures that soon need to be replaced or doubled up, e.g. Severn crossings.
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Good to see the antibody test will soon be available BUT Chinese scientists are saying immunity does not develop - who is right?
I could never see the fuss made of testing if you have it to the external public outside of the hospital population. If you are feeling the symptoms shut yourself away as you are meant to. I read that many of the tests being offered now are being taken up by people who are not showing symptoms.
I could never see the fuss made of testing if you have it to the external public outside of the hospital population. If you are feeling the symptoms shut yourself away as you are meant to. I read that many of the tests being offered now are being taken up by people who are not showing symptoms.
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Both. The antibody shows you have been infected and recovered. Scientific studies cannot be certain you won't get re-infected. There is no long term immunity for all other coronaviruses (common cold, flu) so why would this one be any different.
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The point of testing a good percentage of the population is to follow it up with contact tracing.
The idea being that you identify people who had contact with positive cases and isolate them. In theory, that should drive the number of cases down as people would start infecting less and less people.
That's the theory though. If the contact tracing is not effective then the whole strategy fails.
Now, if there's no immunity then the situation gets more complicated because you'd need to be testing people multiple times...
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Who is ultimately in charge though? Procurement Managers/Directors to a point but surely they are outranked by the government and an MP can demand answers on behalf of the public?
If things like PPE shortages are the fault of a certain department, the head of that department should be answerable to government.
I'd say the ultimate responsibility lies with MPs and government. They can allow departments to be run but as soon as answers are needed, they should be getting them and providing the public with those answers.
Instead, we seem to have a circle of people pointing the finger at one another and MPs not knowing what's actually going on. Imagine running your business and not being able to get answers out of your management team?
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And it was a political decision, by a conservative government, not to do anything about the 2016 3-day trial of the NHS' ability to respond to a flu epidemic. They refused to publish the report at the time because, allegedly, it was too terrifying. They are still rfusing to publish it now, but will shortly face a judicial revies of that refusal.
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I was thinking more of the scale and scope of our technical and mechanical capabilities back in the 1800s vs today. We tend to import materials and components now, we don't make them on the scale we used to and we don't manufacture or build at the scale we used to. We cannot build our own ships, we can assemble but not build from scratch, we rely on imports for critical components.
You could also point out that we've invested more in science and technology I guess, but this seems to be a shift toward 'cleaner' industry, whilst allowing other industries to die out. Ship building, bridge building (at scale), railways/roads <<< all these things seem to be beyond our ability now or we don't invest much time in to them. HS2 is an overblown nightmare and huge waste of resources but an example of the modern UK trying to tackle an old technology. We used to be good at rail, now we're awful. Everything is bloated, goes way over budget and doesn't deliver what was originally promised.
All of this circles back to our ability to be prepared for things like this. We rely on imports. We can't survive without them - look at PPE. Still import reliant. Despite the fact we had practised for this type of event a few years ago - still, no emphasis was put on UK manufacturing to meet demand.
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All those shipbuilding people lost their jobs decades ago?
Just out of interest, look up where the Lizzie was launched from. There are thousands of people who can claim to have worked on her being built.
A lot of our old manufacturing died out as a result of pricing, quality, delivery time etc. When the workforce are on strike half the time for higher pay, when they do a poor job, when delivery is months late - then expect competitors to be able to get work instead. Why buy British when can get better quality cheaper and delivered when needed?
We are still producing a lot here - we are not 100th in the manufacturing league tables.
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Worrying to see reports of a new potential problem, young children are displaying symptoms similar to toxic shock syndrome, rashes, high temperatures etc, believed to be linked to Covid 19. Mainly in London atm, but seen elsewhere.
Up to now children had been thought to hardly to be troubled by Covid 19, if this is linked this could alter the re opening of schools in any attempt to restart the economy.
Up to now children had been thought to hardly to be troubled by Covid 19, if this is linked this could alter the re opening of schools in any attempt to restart the economy.
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I think it is too early to think of 20 as an absolute figure, this has been identified as a new development. Whether related or not is too early to say, DOH are struggling to understand Covid, let alone this.
That said, it has raised concerns, the notice is probably to warn that this is a potential new problem, and for doctors to not simply dismiss any such symptoms as just a sore throat etc. I don’t think such notices are raised for no good reason.
I imagine we will hear more over the next month or so.
That said, it has raised concerns, the notice is probably to warn that this is a potential new problem, and for doctors to not simply dismiss any such symptoms as just a sore throat etc. I don’t think such notices are raised for no good reason.
I imagine we will hear more over the next month or so.
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True, true.
The fact the info gets out there may help some people.
Though doctors can be a very conservative bunch, just because they are told something does not mean they will believe it. Until they get it themselves.
Still it's far easier to get numbers of something if the medical staff have details of what to look out for.
That in itself may considerably increase the numbers without any increase in problems. Being aware of a problem is one step in dealing at least with the symptoms even if no cure. Yet.
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@MY OFFICE IN CHINA I’m curious to know how things are over there just now, and whether that might give us a bit of an insight into what’s in store for us over the next few months.
Economically what happening, and socially is there any progress?
Economically what happening, and socially is there any progress?
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Things are a little different here to the UK with regards to the 'handouts' being given to most businesses. The Chinese are generally industrious people, get on with their lives and don't complain (as there's no-one to complain to and they won't listen anyway).
Most small retail (bricks and mortar) businesses are struggling and many still remain closed. However online businesses are seeing a boom due to the fact that 'people need to spend and do need specific goods. Factories are at about 50 -75% production and those that are open are busy, many with China based orders. A large number have not opened.
I'm in Guangzhou and the amount of people out on the streets is alarmingly low, approximately 10% of normal volume. Restaurants are virtually empty (perhaps 20% at most. Shopping malls are empty and there is a 'fear' to go outside unless it's absolutely necessary. I imagine the lack of money in people's pockets adds to this fact.
Any building you go into (bar none), you have your temperature taken and must show your App on your phone which shows your 'Health Certificate" (basically your movements and daily temperature).
There are sporadic areas where infections have been found and where this is the case, local retail shops have been told (ordered) to close for a week or two. The infections are from people entering China and this is causing a huge backlash for foreigners living in certain cities in China where this is happening. As a foreigner visiting China, you are now looked upon as 'an intruder' and many establishments, including 5 star hotels will not accept bookings. When re-applying for a visa extension, your passport is taken from you for 14 days (I presume to ensure you cannot travel anywhere).
It's interesting to hear all the App discussions taking place in the UK at the moment. This was implemented in China 2 months ago and everybody is fine with it. probably because they have no choice, but there is also a sense that it's for the greater good. personally, I don't see it as a problem as we currently live in very unusual times.
With regards to the general economy in China, like most of the world, they will have a huge economic hit (although they will never admit it) and this will get worse due to the current feelings towards China. Things will not go back to normal for many years to come, especially with the relationship with the West. I'm interested to see how China handles it, as there is only so much you can deny, before the truth comes out. (Read into that what you will).
Many people have said that the world needs China, for it's productivity and spending power abroad. my thoughts on this:
Spending - This will change as many Chinese will not travel abroad and many oversees Chinese students will return.
Productivity - China needs the world, as much as (and perhaps even more so) than the world needs China.
We are experiencing the 'new normal' and many don't realise it.
Stay safe and keep well.
Ron
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What I don’t get is this - if deaths in hospitals are decreasing, but in care homes they’re increasing - why don’t they utilise the empty nightingale hospitals as a way of separating infected care home residents?
Surely this would have a huge impact on reducing transmissions in the homes?
Surely this would have a huge impact on reducing transmissions in the homes?
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They should have done this from the start - remove those with infections and place them in specialist facilities for treatment. It's what they used to do decades ago. People with respiratory illness went to the seaside hospitals for specialist treatment. General hospitals were for general illnesses (broken bones etc.) - instead we have people with infections walking in to general hospitals and mixing with others.
I believe the problem is staffing for the new hospitals. They've built them but they can never reach full capacity because they don't have the specialist staff available. That's why they rushed through junior doctors and semi qualified nurses but they've just covered the current hospitals who have staff off work due to illness/symptoms.
I still don't know why MPs don't just admit the truth. They were under prepared and the new hospitals don't have enough staff, the current hospitals are under staffed if people are taking 14 days off for symptoms etc. Much easier for them just to say this and hold their hands up, rather than messing around with bar charts and coming up with stories of why we're not as bad as somewhere else because they don't count other people in other areas and we do etc.
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Incompetence.
In China all COVID-19 patients were completely isolated in separate hospitals. No other patients were allowed to be treated in the same hospitals.
They powers that be seem to be saying and doing things for show, rather than for what's required.
They seem to be out of their depth.
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