BT want me to take out a 5 year deal

[Luolou]

We currently pay BT a fee of £157.88 quarterly for phone & ISDN line, and £45.72 for the fax line. They have come up with a new deal which will apparently save us £64.82 a quarter on the main line and £2.37 on the fax line, provided we sign up for 5 years.Are there any pitfalls I shopuld be considering before I agree to sign up?
Thanks

 

[kontracta_com]

I'm sure you've already thought of this but the main thing to go straight for is the small print on cancellation - to see what happens if you need/want to get out the contract early.

It's just that a lot is likely to happen within the next five years in telecomms as new technologies arrive. What seems good now might not a few years down the line if you have new entrants and new products. But then again it might. Can't say I envy you this decision.

 

[leemason]

Don't do it. I wouldn't enter into a 5 year contract for anything let alone telecoms. In 5 years the whole landscape could well have changed.

 

[zimple]

http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=159030

 

[Luolou]

Hmmm, interesting reading Zimple. So the concensus of opinion is don't do it. I really am clueless about how telecoms rental works but have just been asked to investigate, and what better place to come than this forum? Am I able to go to another provider get the same service? Can someone explain about ISDN in plain English to me so I know how to compare like for like?
(We do only pay BT for the rental, we pay another provider £35 month for Broadband and Opal Telecom for telephone calls.)
:|

 

[Bri]

Agreed, my nephew in law is tied into a five yr deal with BT too.

Have you thought of non tied in monthly agreements, I could help you.

 

[Luolou]

Sorry Bri, I don't understand what you mean?:|

 

[Beachcomber]

Think about how service speeds and quality has changed over the last 5 years - then consider how it would affect your business if you were stuck with this 5 year old service standards.

The market is too dynamic to make a long term contract viable - sure there are competitors out there who can offer similar savings with a less mortgage like tie-in!

 

[pcproblems]

If you don't mind my asking, what do you actually use the ISDN for? Do you have a need for digital voice and data services?

 

[Luolou]

I 'understand' that the ISDN line was required because of our telephone system, and possibly to do with Broadband? (It is not a compicated system, only has 5 extensions on it). This was all set up a number of years ago so may have to dig a little deeper if that doesn't asnwer the question. - See I told you I hadn't a clue!!

 

[pcproblems]

Ok, well broadband uses a normal analogue line. I would seek professional advice to see whether you actually need ISDN. Maybe ask on the internet/IT section of this forum

 

[Bri]

Sorry Bri, I don't understand what you mean?:|

Have a look at your messages, sent you one.

Obviously dont want PM's?

Rather than be tied into a contract why not try our services. I dont advertise the fact on here much but I'm a Utility Warehouse distributor along with another member here MyOwl1( I ve never asked her what that means, just got off the phone to her too). Anyway checkout our website. If we can help save you money we will, if youve got a better deal then we say go for it, no hassling and no pressure.

 

[cjd]

Under no circumstances sign a 5 year deal. They're just trying to lock you into a bad set of technologies before you change.

If you want to save money, drop all but two exchange line (including the ISDNs), rent two ADSL connections - one from BT and one from someone else so you have failover. Buy 5 VoIP phones and plug them into one of the broadbands.

Job done - costs less, gives you more, no long contracts and completely expandable.

 

[Luolou]

Bri

Sorry - I wasn't ignoring your message, but the email address you will have pm'd me to is my home one as I do most of my reserach from there, but 'for today only' I am doing this whilst at work (if you see what I mean).
Thanks cjd. You are right I've no doubt that they want to tie me in for their own gain. I appreciate everyone's advice and will look into this in more detail and keep you posted.

 

[mit74]

I've just been out to a small company that BT Business charge £15 a month to backup 1 1MB file from their computer to their servers. I almost chocked on my coffee when they told me. It pays to shop around!

 

[Businesswise Solutions]

Hi Luolou

We can help you here and I can even call up to your office. We ( Daisy PLC ) do quite a bit of work for the councils and I'm actually up at Lancaster Council offices on Wednesday this week and can call in before if you like? We are only based at Nelson and we look after over 100,000 businesses ranging from 1 man bands to multi site customers like Bhs, Tesco's etc!

We are on the Councils Framework agreement:

Framework Agreement Code

RM 374/L12
Framework Agreement Title Telecom Networks - Network Analysis and Billing Audit Services UNSPSC Code 83112200 Framework Agreement Effective From 08/01/2008 Framework Agreement Expires 07/01/2012Framework Agreement Description

Services for commercial and technical network & usage analysis, leading to overall cost reduction.

Regards

Dean

PM me for more details

 

[Bri]

This iscredit to everyone here, for those that knock what we do on this forum for sometimes being negative we have all rallied round and helped someone I hope.

Thanks everyone for your input.

 

[movietub]

BT are the most shocking company! Getting people to sign up to 5 long term deals serves only to secure their long term revenue. The fact that they feel the need to seek that security is a worry. Why don't they think you will stay with them for 5 years anyway? Are they planning on letting you down and want to tie as many customers in to their service as they can first? I makes no sense to you as a consumer.

And they do let people down. Almost everytime I move business premesis, or people I know do, or any newbuild office project I work on, BT always fail to get the phones, net and other systems up and running by the promise date.

Bottom line is that everytime this happens people start looking for alternatives, yet there are none. BT own the lines and thats that. Sorry for the rant! But I think they should be forced to sell off some of the lines and face competition from better operators.

BT - urgh

 

[british steve]

We currently pay BT a fee of £157.88 quarterly for phone & ISDN line, and £45.72 for the fax line. They have come up with a new deal which will apparently save us £64.82 a quarter on the main line and £2.37 on the fax line, provided we sign up for 5 years.Are there any pitfalls I shopuld be considering before I agree to sign up?
Thanks

5 years with BT? You’d have to be right cupid stunt to sign up for that!

 

[raf300]

Don't sign a 5 year deal. You would save more money and gain hugh flexibility by buying in broadband and using VOIP.

If you want a competitive quote and excellent VOIP service just pm me or call us.

Regards,
Raf

 

[MoonlightEnts]

PSTN line is a basic line which is used for the likes of Telephone lines, Broadband and Alarm lines - An analogue line to summarise.

ISDN Integrated Services Digital Network - Which you can use for all of the above including the likes of VOIP simultaneously.

There is only a small difference in price with BT for the 3yr and 5yr terms. If your dealing with BT local business get the Account Managers DDI number and make sure you stay in touch with them - They will regularly update you with new products and services.

Also you say your Tel system is a few years old?

A few things to check with BT is firstly:

Is your Tel system compatible with the new 21CN network?
Do you have maintenance on the system?

Maybe get a field guy out too look at your Telecoms as a whole before you sign any contract.

 

[smo]

In response to some of the above points:

1) BT are a business, why on earth shouldnt they want to secure longer term contracts, its actually good business sence!

2) On a 5yr contract you wont be on 21CN so compatability isnt going to be an issue, its not even out of testing yet either!

3) I wouldnt sign a 5yr contract either, its way too long to be tied to one package.

4) Dont jump in wiht VOIP and dual ADSL lines unless you are sure, people keep pimping it as the be all and end all, but its not that great in all situations - ADSL goes down = no phones, for a business that is pretty bad news! Also how reliable is your ADSL, they come with NO SLA so there are no guarentees for uptime or fixing a fault, also 2 providers wont help when the exchange falls over as both the lines would go into the same exchange equipment leaving you paying double for no real world benefit!

 

[Businesswise Solutions]

you've pretty much got that spot on, smo

 

[cjd]

In response to some of the above points:

1) BT are a business, why on earth shouldnt they want to secure longer term contracts, its actually good business sence!

Certainly is - for them

4) Dont jump in wiht VOIP and dual ADSL lines unless you are sure, people keep pimping it as the be all and end all, but its not that great in all situations - ADSL goes down = no phones, for a business that is pretty bad news! Also how reliable is your ADSL, they come with NO SLA so there are no guarentees for uptime or fixing a fault, also 2 providers wont help when the exchange falls over as both the lines would go into the same exchange equipment leaving you paying double for no real world benefit!

VoIP is made for a small system like this, far better and far cheaper than an obsolete ISDN service locked in for 5 years.

Two ADSLs (from different providers) gives an almost foolproof service. If one fails (they rarely do) you have the other. If both fail (never known it to happen for a purely broadband problem) you unplug your phones and take them home, then carry on as usual.

If your office burns down, your service will work exactly as it did from anywhere you can plug into the internet.

With IDSN you are confined to a single location and a single service. If you loose the wires, you loose the service.

Two independent DSLs will not fail simultaneously unless the lines fail or the local exchange fails. In which case the ISDN has failed also.

If ISDNS fails there is no fall back.

SLAs do not guarantee service - they offer fixed compensation for service failure; usually trivial.

 

[Paul Kelly ICHYB]

Spot on, Colin.

 

[MikeJ]

On a side note, was it actually BT that called? We had a number of calls which started "I'm xxx from BT". Under scrutiny, it turned out that they tended to be BT resellers, rather than BT themselves. Chewed the last one out for lying in her opening statement.

 

[smo]

VoIP is made for a small system like this, far better and far cheaper than an obsolete ISDN service locked in for 5 years.

Two ADSLs (from different providers) gives an almost foolproof service. If one fails (they rarely do) you have the other. If both fail (never known it to happen for a purely broadband problem) you unplug your phones and take them home, then carry on as usual.

If your office burns down, your service will work exactly as it did from anywhere you can plug into the internet.

With IDSN you are confined to a single location and a single service. If you loose the wires, you loose the service.

Two independent DSLs will not fail simultaneously unless the lines fail or the local exchange fails. In which case the ISDN has failed also.

If ISDNS fails there is no fall back.

SLAs do not guarantee service - they offer fixed compensation for service failure; usually trivial.

How many people have ISDN lines, we have multiple lines in our office and not a single ISDN line!!

As for independant ADSL's being foolproof, i beg to differ - the one and only problem we have with our ADSL service is the exchange falling over, its never the service provider so having 2 of them wont make it better, it will just double the cost and not solve the problem.

Suggesting you "unplug the phones and go home" is a silly idea, people are running professional businesses, if they could simply do that without other consiquences then they probably wouldnt have an office in the first place!

 

[cjd]

How many people have ISDN lines, we have multiple lines in our office and not a single ISDN line!![/quote}

Anybody using a PBX supporting multiple extensions will normally be using ISDN circuits. Anybody just needing a separate fax machine and telephone would normally rent ISDN 2. Generally, people renting multiple single lines have grown slowly and added new ones as they need them and have expensive and extremely inflexible telephony.

As for independant ADSL's being foolproof, i beg to differ - the one and only problem we have with our ADSL service is the exchange falling over, its never the service provider so having 2 of them wont make it better, it will just double the cost and not solve the problem.

Nothing is foolproof. ADSL IS less reliable that PSTN - the ONLY advantage of the legacy PSTN is that it's been around long enough to work most of the time. Having two of them DOES make a big difference, particularly if you use one ISPs that has their own equipment on BT's exchanges.

But I don't recommend the use of two DSLs just for failover - it's to separate calls from internet use and is only necessary if you need several simultaneous calls whilst heavily using the internet for heavy web browsing and internet.

For normal use a single DSL is fine.

Suggesting you "unplug the phones and go home" is a silly idea, people are running professional businesses, if they could simply do that without other consiquences then they probably wouldnt have an office in the first place!

I run a telephone company with tens of thousands of customers and don't have an office - often it's only habit that makes us think we need one. But of course many/most people need one - even so the ability to have your office number ring in several other places is extremely useful, it means you can sometimes work from home if it suits - you don't actually need to take your phone home of course, you just have another one there.

The fact that if necessary, you COULD run your business from another location in an emergency without cost or difficulty is a massive advantage and something that is utterly impossible with legacy PSTN

 

[The Numbergroup Team]

Yikes those are terribly high charges an a 5 year contract is crazy (not for BT though)
If we can help at all please let me know.
We can supply a fax to email service for £2pcm You don't need any physical phone line, so in theory you could easily cancel out your £40 odd pcm for the fax line rental. I'm sure we could help you out in some way with your phone line problems too. Feel free to get in contact.

 

[Newcott]

I'm a Ex-BT local business employee so know a little

At this stage I wouldnt want to sign up to a 5 year on ISDN - maybe a while back but not this day and age.

Within the next two years BT want a majority of businesses to use VOIP (or SIP if your a bigger company)

You can sign up to a 2,3,4 year deal which won't save you as much but will get you some.