I agree with you 100%. I have issues with HSBC and not the govt or the terms of the loan, responsible lending or not. They've been shambolic with how they've handled things so far.
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Bounce back loan
- Thread starter OMGVape
- Start date
I agree with you 100%. I have issues with HSBC and not the govt or the terms of the loan, responsible lending or not. They've been shambolic with how they've handled things so far.
Surely the expected response was the original loan which the government guaranteed to 80% but not many wanted to take it up as it required a personal guarantee
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Frogmann makes some really valid points and it doesn’t surprise me.
Look the point here is that HMG agreed to support with 100% guaranteed loans, no quibble, one page easy application to get the money out fast to business. They have used banks as the selected partners to do this. The banks are glorified administrators of this scheme in a time of crisis they are not underwriters of the loan - it’s tax payer money and the rules/ term sheet at day 1 should be the same as at day 100.
I would prefer the scheme to be administered by the council or via the tax portal but it’s not. We are stuck with useless banks who are prone to changing any rules at anytime to suit them and as per usual are Fcking this facility up - many businesses are without the money a week later or still can’t apply. So much for “get money out fast”
Then we find only certain banks can give out the loans and those certain banks are looking after own clients and not supporting other business. If that’s not aiding the big 6 banks cartel what is?
Initially it said on the British bank website if you are declined at one bank you can try others. Now we find that actually that the search is recorded so in effect HSBC would know if you were declined at Barclays etc, so the rules have changed. Not that it’s easy to use other banks anyway.
As per usual from the banks perspective it’s NOT about supporting the business community it’s about their own interests and that’s why this scheme should not be administered by the banks. It should be more like a student loan facility
Look the point here is that HMG agreed to support with 100% guaranteed loans, no quibble, one page easy application to get the money out fast to business. They have used banks as the selected partners to do this. The banks are glorified administrators of this scheme in a time of crisis they are not underwriters of the loan - it’s tax payer money and the rules/ term sheet at day 1 should be the same as at day 100.
I would prefer the scheme to be administered by the council or via the tax portal but it’s not. We are stuck with useless banks who are prone to changing any rules at anytime to suit them and as per usual are Fcking this facility up - many businesses are without the money a week later or still can’t apply. So much for “get money out fast”
Then we find only certain banks can give out the loans and those certain banks are looking after own clients and not supporting other business. If that’s not aiding the big 6 banks cartel what is?
Initially it said on the British bank website if you are declined at one bank you can try others. Now we find that actually that the search is recorded so in effect HSBC would know if you were declined at Barclays etc, so the rules have changed. Not that it’s easy to use other banks anyway.
As per usual from the banks perspective it’s NOT about supporting the business community it’s about their own interests and that’s why this scheme should not be administered by the banks. It should be more like a student loan facility
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Erm.
Not many were able to take it up because it was subject to all of the usual credit checks for directors and their businesses, and unsurprisingly we’re all struggling right now.
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I applied for that the moment it came out, no response from HSBC until the 28th of April when the below came from a lady
I can confirm that I have received your Coronavirus Business Interruption Loan (CBIL) application form and will be reviewing it for you. It is under consideration and I will be in contact with you soon to discuss the application further in more detail. As you may have already heard, there is a new government incentive that is being rolled out as we speak – Bounce Back Loan. We are yet to receive clarification on the process to follow so we can present it to you and give you the choice to pick the most suitable product for your business needs.
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Guys...hope you can help.
I was in process of buying a Ltd Company, inc the freehold property. Total being 140K, with a 60K commercial mortgage being arranged through my Bank. But they are slow in approving the loan, due to Covid-19 outbreak, rather than my status.
The company is profitable, trading..and turning over in excess of 300K per annum.
I have the ability to pay for it cash....the whole 140K via Directors Loan unless I can now talk them into discount...(i'll buy it today for 130K approach)
but what I would want to do is....immediately open a new bank account for the company, and apply for the 50K BBL..being used to pay back some of the Directors Loan?...Obviously shares, directorships would change into my name.. The company can easilly afford the BBL when it kicks in in 12 months.
Is it possible to do this with the company being sold to me...say this week? and with it being a new bank account? Companies existence, trading etc can be proved if necessary.
Views would be appreciated.
In fact second question..has anyone yet been turned down for one of these loans..just curious
thanks
I was in process of buying a Ltd Company, inc the freehold property. Total being 140K, with a 60K commercial mortgage being arranged through my Bank. But they are slow in approving the loan, due to Covid-19 outbreak, rather than my status.
The company is profitable, trading..and turning over in excess of 300K per annum.
I have the ability to pay for it cash....the whole 140K via Directors Loan unless I can now talk them into discount...(i'll buy it today for 130K approach)
but what I would want to do is....immediately open a new bank account for the company, and apply for the 50K BBL..being used to pay back some of the Directors Loan?...Obviously shares, directorships would change into my name.. The company can easilly afford the BBL when it kicks in in 12 months.
Is it possible to do this with the company being sold to me...say this week? and with it being a new bank account? Companies existence, trading etc can be proved if necessary.
Views would be appreciated.
In fact second question..has anyone yet been turned down for one of these loans..just curious
thanks
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HSBC are the main one but one or two others starting to show. Starling Bank is a new one but it says you clearly must use their account as your main business account - I guess they are using the scheme to sign up more customers to them.
The list and information published by Martin Lewis is really helpful. I can’t stand him but to b3 fair this is a great article that’s updated:-
https://www.moneysavingexpert.com/n...EwMfL4b7ahNq6eDaSsuXjve63SxYO-A_YKn3e5jlDtU2E
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funnily enough, what I see is an outrageously liberal facility being delivered pretty well at short notice (albeit. With a few glitches) and a noisy minority of business owners whingeing.
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Hmmm
If you read that martin Lewis article I just posted I don’t see why not frankly as long as the LTd company continues and you are appointed as director and you have the trading accounts to prove your turnover in that last year if subject to audit.
The only complication I could see is if the business didn’t work out and it went into administration. I would guess you would be made to repay the directors loan money you have paid yourself back as it would show as repaid to you following the BBL - that’s where this risk is imo.
But banks are fickle things and the BBL is not a given although it does look highly probable in your circumstances - worth a go?
Good look
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Yes but Mark your posts are normally pro banks, the rest of us have different experiences, not everyone is a fan of the banking sector
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The main difference is the self cert mortgages weren’t government backed or involving the government at all.
I cannot see the government not checking records at some point in the near future, but best of luck to you (you will need it).
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I can't see why govt will go about digging the records 'IF' businesses stick the terms of the loan and pay back the loan as agreed, it's a win-win as far as I can see it.
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yes - and I’ve probably got the best motivation to bash banks - but I happen to believe delivery on this has been exceptional
I was on a zoom yesterday with a load of independent Funders - all of whom agreed they’d run a mile from being involved with delivering this.
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Exceptional by some banks I would agree with, and to be fair there have been a number of positive comments on this thread praising the relevant bank. Service has been far from exceptional by other banks, HSBC being an example I can give as they are who I bank with. No communication whatsoever to at least manage expectations, and their starting point to deliver BBL is no different to the other banks, yet they are managing far better. If they just communicated the timescales, that would be appreciated.
I do appreciate though that the expectation of business owners to apply for commercial finance and to expect the cleared funds within 2 or 3 days would be ridiculous under normal circumstances. But, we are in exceptional times and if some institutions can deliver as promised, then it is wholly understandable that we can have a 'whinge' at those that are failing to hit these standards.
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Applied Tues, final paperwork rec’d last night at 11pm, I’m expecting funds Tues/Weds perhaps?
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Would seem that way based on my clients. I agree it's a shame no contact in the interim between application and receiving the agreement forms but given how easy the process is for everyone I don't think there can seriously be too many grumbles.
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None of the banks involved have really done any communication. Funds are just appearing in people’s banks at various times. Any lack of communication from HSBC is only apparent because they’re not paying as quickly as others.
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Starling Bank have now made some changes to online banking in readiness for going live with BBL on Monday. There is now an additional tab to apply for either BBL or CBIL.
They have said that they are going to start with Ltd company applications, and then switch to non-Ltd customers.
They have said that they are going to start with Ltd company applications, and then switch to non-Ltd customers.
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That's exactly why they should have been communicating better.
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Hi all
Thank you I have a lot of help from here from being a stalker!!!
I applied for HSBC BBL Monday 8.30 am and received funds on Wednesday approx 4pm after digitally signing email 1 minute earlier.
It goes into a separate loan account and is then released into your account a few hours later. It is visible in online banking as soon as you have signed.
Thank you I have a lot of help from here from being a stalker!!!
I applied for HSBC BBL Monday 8.30 am and received funds on Wednesday approx 4pm after digitally signing email 1 minute earlier.
It goes into a separate loan account and is then released into your account a few hours later. It is visible in online banking as soon as you have signed.
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I don’t know, you’re probably correct as hmrc will find it incredibly difficult to follow up anyway as it can be based on estimates. I suspect you’re correct about the checks only taking place if you default on the loan and the government guarantee is called on. Not that I’d like to take that chance though.
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Can anybody tell me if there is a standard form of questions or does it vary by lender?
A friend who successfully applied via Lloyds said it was about 20 Yes/No questions, but I thought it was only going to be 7. I'm asking as I would really like to know what they all are in preparation!
I'll be applying with Starling tomorrow and they say as a Limited Company you just need to ensure you have declared all PSC which I did upon opening the account (just myself). I previously banked with Revolut for business and Barclays and HSBC personally (they have been as much help as a chocolate fireguard). I'd be absolutely over the moon to take my business banking all to Starling if they can get this over the line.
I assume everything is electronically checked and I'm concerned that as my last submitted accounts in April 2020 were for 2018-2019 when the company was dormant, that it might flag up an alert. I actually traded from 2014-2017 and then from May 2019. So as I don't have a full 12 months trading in 2019, am I able to estimate what I think it would have been as I had a potentially very lucrative deal lined up that fell through and would really like to count this towards my estimated turnover?
A friend who successfully applied via Lloyds said it was about 20 Yes/No questions, but I thought it was only going to be 7. I'm asking as I would really like to know what they all are in preparation!
I'll be applying with Starling tomorrow and they say as a Limited Company you just need to ensure you have declared all PSC which I did upon opening the account (just myself). I previously banked with Revolut for business and Barclays and HSBC personally (they have been as much help as a chocolate fireguard). I'd be absolutely over the moon to take my business banking all to Starling if they can get this over the line.
I assume everything is electronically checked and I'm concerned that as my last submitted accounts in April 2020 were for 2018-2019 when the company was dormant, that it might flag up an alert. I actually traded from 2014-2017 and then from May 2019. So as I don't have a full 12 months trading in 2019, am I able to estimate what I think it would have been as I had a potentially very lucrative deal lined up that fell through and would really like to count this towards my estimated turnover?
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They are all very standard and it's just things like 'I confirm I understand that I'm taking out a loan' then 'I confirm I understand that I remain 100% liable for the loan', etc
With regards to the estimated turnover, as we are in May 2020, you have nearly a full 12 months of turnover so I would estimate it based on that.
If you over-estimate too much, you might end up being in line for scrutiny by hmrc when they do their retrospective checks.
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Starling Bank have just released their official guidance for self employed applicants. They’ve also pushed the opening for self employed applicants back a day so that they can deal with limited companies first.
Interestingly they’re pre-warning that they’ll want a completed tax return for 2019-20, which will be interesting as the eligibility criteria allows applicants that became self employed before 1st March; they’ll no doubt have an almost zero return to show..
Interestingly they’re pre-warning that they’ll want a completed tax return for 2019-20, which will be interesting as the eligibility criteria allows applicants that became self employed before 1st March; they’ll no doubt have an almost zero return to show..
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Thanks anonuk - so not asking for particulars apart from turnover and requested amount.
I understand how they can verify turnover against your business account with them or from posted accounts, but if you've been trading for less than a year and bank elsewhere, are they likely to ask for management accounts? My accountant is understandably busy right now and not very responsive.
I understand how they can verify turnover against your business account with them or from posted accounts, but if you've been trading for less than a year and bank elsewhere, are they likely to ask for management accounts? My accountant is understandably busy right now and not very responsive.
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I understand that the government have said you can apply if you have been self employed before 1st march, however, it does make me wonder, what is there to stop one from saying they became self employed before 1st March in order to get a bounce back loan without any evidence of such?
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The turnover is self certified, however, so you just estimate the best you can (maybe see what your turnover was from May 2019 - April 2020, then get an average figure for what would have been May 2020's turnover).
There is debate on whether anyone will ever check if the turnover you declared is accurate (to the best of your ability). I read in an article on ft.com that hmrc will perform retrospective checks, but at the same time, if they are allowing 'estimated turnover' it begs the question as to how can they possibly check/penalise for incorrect information.
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I'm going to be sensible in my estimations of what my turnover would have been if my deal hadn't fallen through. But as it's subjective, they might not see it that way :/
There is a potential I would have hit £200k turnover, but justifying that might be difficult as I know what I had planned! I had secured a £50k investment originally in Dec that fell through because of this (at end of Jan), so I satisfied them there was potential. My actual turnover for 2019 was ~£40k so I'm going to factor in the uplift I projected for 5 months and that could easily be another £40k, being very conservative.
On that basis, I think I will probably apply for £20k based on £80k estimated 12 month revenue.
I have justifiable reasons in my head for the calculation and I satisfied the investor, so hopefully Starling and HMG will see it that way too!
There is a potential I would have hit £200k turnover, but justifying that might be difficult as I know what I had planned! I had secured a £50k investment originally in Dec that fell through because of this (at end of Jan), so I satisfied them there was potential. My actual turnover for 2019 was ~£40k so I'm going to factor in the uplift I projected for 5 months and that could easily be another £40k, being very conservative.
On that basis, I think I will probably apply for £20k based on £80k estimated 12 month revenue.
I have justifiable reasons in my head for the calculation and I satisfied the investor, so hopefully Starling and HMG will see it that way too!
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I've just had a look at the application form on HSBC's website and the following two clauses may be of interest to some:-
We undertake to use the credit granted on the basis of this agreement only to provide economic benefit to my/our business, for example, providing working capital, or investing in my/our business. I/we also confirm that the Bounce Back Loan will be used wholly for business purposes and not personal purposes.
We recognise that by providing information that is inaccurate or incomplete in any material particular, I/we may be regarded as attempting to gain, or gaining, a financial advantage dishonestly and as such will be liable to criminal prosecution for fraud under the Fraud Act 2006 (or equivalent law in Scotland) (for which the penalties include imprisonment or a fine or both), as well as to the forfeiture of all loan proceeds together with interest and court costs.
We undertake to use the credit granted on the basis of this agreement only to provide economic benefit to my/our business, for example, providing working capital, or investing in my/our business. I/we also confirm that the Bounce Back Loan will be used wholly for business purposes and not personal purposes.
We recognise that by providing information that is inaccurate or incomplete in any material particular, I/we may be regarded as attempting to gain, or gaining, a financial advantage dishonestly and as such will be liable to criminal prosecution for fraud under the Fraud Act 2006 (or equivalent law in Scotland) (for which the penalties include imprisonment or a fine or both), as well as to the forfeiture of all loan proceeds together with interest and court costs.
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HSBC are now sending out emails a couple of days after application letting customers know to expect the loan agreement from them soon and that it'll be coming from an @echosign.com email address.
So comms are perhaps improving slightly.
So comms are perhaps improving slightly.
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- If you take this out for a LTD company, does it go into the LTD company business bank account?
- Do you pay corporate tax on the money when it comes in (is it income)?
- Can you use the money from the loan to pay yourself as a director and employee of the LTD company (in salary or wages)?
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