Bad time to start selling ecigs?

  • Thread starter Thread starter imlewis
  • Start date Start date
I

imlewis

Hey guys,

My friend and I have been planning to go into the electronic cigarette business, with our sales being driven through online platforms.

There is however a lot of debate around the legality of such products in the near future, and although I have personally been keeping up with what's happening in the UK in regards to government intervention, I'm unable to weigh up the level of risk associated in starting up such a venture at this time.

We've put a huge amount of time building relationships with manufacturers, sourcing viable products, branding and even have our own website ready to go. We're close to pulling the trigger on our first large order but this has been a big worry throughout.

Any feedback from you guys would be greatly appreciated.

Lewis.
 
Talk of legislation (or lack of it) has been going on for years and will continue for years to come.

Keep to the suggested regulations and adapt as you go along.

It won't be a case of, your here one day and tomorrow your business will be illegal.

Brand your product, get a good website and buy direct from factories, to give you an edge.

Feel free to email me directly for any advice: [email protected]

We supply to some large brands in Europe and USA.
 
Upvote 0
Lewis,

IMO there will be no major change regarding this. They are so popular now and people are used to them - its been good few years already. I see no problems at all.
 
Upvote 0
Ahh Ron,

I've just spent the last hour reading through related topics and you appeared multiple times. So glad to see your response!

That's very kind of you, although I have to question why you would assist a potential competitor? :D - Unless I'm mistaken and you're not actually in the ecig business lol
 
Upvote 0
My apologies, was under the assumption you were in the cig business. It's been a long day :p
 
Upvote 0
We are a buying office.

We work with many international groups as well as smaller companies.

We do not disclose the customers names we work with.

We do not disclose any information regarding our customers, their products, their brands, their factories etc etc.

We look after our customers with complete confidentiality, as they would like it and as we do.

They come to us for our 30 years experience working in China.

We offer a full after sales service, which is probably the best reason when buying in China.
 
Upvote 0
This is what I do as my main business. 'Here today gone tomorrow' is exactly what it will be like next May unless the news laws coming in get changed. Only 'ecigs' that will still be legal are the cigalike ones that the cigarette companies sell.
What is it you're wanting to sell, the generation 1,2 or 3 types?
 
Upvote 0
i don't know why people comment on things they have no idea about lol, the new laws come in next May. Heres the new laws translated into what they'll actually mean:

max 10ml bottle size- just a mild annoyance

max 20mg/ml strength- mild annoyance

pharma grade ingredients only- no flavourings? Bad news

mechanisms for leak free refilling- All current products now illegal except for the cigalikes

must be tamper proof- All products illegal again. No changing the coil I assume

MHRA will regulate devices- Uh oh. A vendor tried registering everything with them a couple of years ago and they quoted him something ridiculous like 3 billion £s

All vendors must register with secretary of state and give yearly updates- he can ban anything he likes
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0
Mr Boring - if that all does happen, then you will still be able to buy them on ebay, online, Alibaba etc. Simply brick & mortar shops won`t sell them.
 
Upvote 0
Mr Boring - if that all does happen, then you will still be able to buy them on ebay, online, Alibaba etc. Simply brick & mortar shops won`t sell them.

To an extent, not if a lot of parcels get seized though, I already have 30-40% of my deliveries security checked, not even sure why. Ebays cracked down on it a lot in the last 6 months already, they just turned a blind eye before but I keep getting 30 day bans on my accounts now. This time next year will probably be outright bans
 
Upvote 0
No, i don't think it's a bad time at all. Not if you have a good product at the right price. I went into a local shop on Saturday and walked out £60 lighter, although there product was a little on the inferior side in comparison to other purchases, but they were convenient.

The mark up on the good seems to be pretty tasty.

I set up an e cig site myself, got it ranking in the top 5 pages of google for 'electronic cigarettes' and variations but i was going through a busy time with many other half finished projects and i let the site die, although knowing my luck i'd have got another manual penalty from the lovely people at google.

I was speaking to the guy in the ecig shop on saturday and he seemed to suggest there would be some legislation coming in within the next couple of years regarding mixing eliquids in labs on site but as for the products itself, i think it is here to stay.

I haven't had a fag in over 2 years and i'm the healthiest i have ever been.
 
Upvote 0
The company I work for are actually in the process of putting together a guide to help retailers prepare for the regulations but in the meantime, we've put together a quick summary below:

Not Allowed

Affiliates
Email Marketing
Internet advertising (but can continue to sell via websites)
Most magazines and papers (general)
TV and radio

Allowed

Bill board
Signs
Cinema advertising
Leaflets, mail shots
Advertising in trade magazines
Selling through websites

The government has clarified that blogs which are directly promotional will not be allowed but tutorials and information will be allowed. Obviously, there is likely to be a grey area - i.e. is 20% off factual or promotional?
 
Upvote 0
I wonder if the boat has been missed on this.

There are already reports out about e-cig users being at risk of serious health conditions, and increasing numbers of places (including railway stations etc.) are stopping people smoking them in their areas.

The fact that they could be used anywhere (originally) and were supposedly safe was probably a major part of their appeal, but now these have been taken away, will people continue to use them?
 
Upvote 0
I wonder if the boat has been missed on this.

There are already reports out about e-cig users being at risk of serious health conditions, and increasing numbers of places (including railway stations etc.) are stopping people smoking them in their areas.

The fact that they could be used anywhere (originally) and were supposedly safe was probably a major part of their appeal, but now these have been taken away, will people continue to use them?

The health risk is seriously overstated and sensationalised by the press. There are lots of studies ongoing and completed that say it is AT LEAST 95% healthier than burning tobacco. Check out the work being done by Dr Konstantinos Farsalinos on the matter. The bans are coming in due to the unknown. "If we're not sure about it, ban it" is the order of day in modern times.

The TPD coming in May is a huge blow to the industry though. The technology is improving all the time, but it will be illegal to sell that technology when the law is passed. It's a shame as it has the potential to save millions of lives.
 
  • Like
Reactions: boring-friday
Upvote 0
I wonder if the boat has been missed on this.

There are already reports out about e-cig users being at risk of serious health conditions, and increasing numbers of places (including railway stations etc.) are stopping people smoking them in their areas.

The fact that they could be used anywhere (originally) and were supposedly safe was probably a major part of their appeal, but now these have been taken away, will people continue to use them?

The guy above me has already answered exactly as I would of done in regards to the health aspect lol.

I'd say more people have started using them due to the cost of cigarettes though. If you look where e cigs are popular: US,UK,Australia..fairly popular in Germany,France,Spain.

Not popular atall in Eastern Europe or Asia its pretty much a direct correlation with the more expensive places for cigarettes
 
Upvote 0
We've recently posted a blog post on the TPD regulations. I'm not able to post links here so I've no other choice than to copy and paste it here so I do apologise for the long post! You can find similar information relating to e-cigarettes on our Ashtray Blog.

The EU Tobacco Products Directive: What Retailers and Shop Owners need to know
A few retailers have asked me how the EU regulations on e-cigs will affect them.

If you’re not heard of the TPD before, it’s part of the Tobacco Products Directive (article 20). Although designed for cigarettes, e-cigarettes were included in the badly written and designed article 20.

Numerous rumours are swirling around – many of them hopelessly wrong. Only last week I was told menthol e-liquid is going to be banned. (It’s not!)

Last week one of our resellers sent us through a comprehensive list of questions, which both spurred me into action and steered the format of this post!

Do note that legislation in the UK has not yet been finalised. The information here represents what we know now.

We’ll keep this post updated, so feel free to send questions through (contact detailshere!) or leave a comment under this post.

(Protest is still continuing against the TPD. If you want to get involved, details of the next even can be foundhere.)

1. Are e-cigs now medicalised?
No. Thanks to the efforts of dedicated vaping activists, the EU’s attempt to medicalise e-cigs was defeated.

While companies have the option to go for a medical license, this is not mandatory. In any case, the costs are beyond the resources of small to medium sized companies.

2. As a retailer, will my shop need any form of Special Licence or Insurance under the TPD?
No. However, we always recommend you have insurance, and buy from suppliers which have product liability insurance.

3. Besides product knowledge, would I or my staff need any extra training to sell e-cigs?
You do not need anyadditionalproduct knowledge or training. However, you should already have a knowledge of General Products Safety Regulations (2005). Do be careful to follow age restriction guidelines . Failure to do so could lead to a ban on selling nicotine. We’d also advise a good knowledge of battery safety info.

We have put together a guide to compliance with age restrictionshere, and an illustrated guide to battery safetyhere.

4. What is going to happen with imported liquids – can we still sell them?
E-Liquid now has to be made with EU or USA pharma grade nicotine. At present this excludes Chinese manufacturers, and until recently we have not seen any making efforts to comply.

In addition, e-liquids will need to undergo testing, including emissions testing, with a submission being made 6 months before sale is allowed.

It’s possible that some of the larger USA e-liquid companies will be prepared to fork out for compliance, notifications and emissions testing. However, the majority of companies we’ve spoken to know little about the TPD.

5. So, the new regulations stipulates 2ml Cartridge, does that then now include Refiller/Rebuildable/Dripper Tanks?
Unfortunately so. One government document appeared to suggest tanks would be excluded, however the restriction on tanks was clarified in the2015 ECig Summit. However, we’re not sure to what extent it will affect parts for rebuildable clearomisers.

6. As a retailer, do I need to carry out testing and submit notifications?
The onus for testing and submissions falls on the manufacturer and the importer. If you are importing the devices, you will need to conduct the tests and submit notifications to the MHRA. Given the costs of both testing and notification, this is not likely to be feasible for smaller retailers, especially those carrying a wide range of stock.

If you are not importing or manufacturing, you will not have to conduct tests or notify products.

7. Why is the MHRA consulting about costs? Will I now have pay a fee to sell e-cigs?
The MHRA plans to charge manufacturers and importers fees to cover the costs of receiving and reviewing submissions.

The proposed fees are:
  • Submitting a new product: £220 per sku
  • Service fee: £60
  • Modification fee: £110
These are not set in stone. The MHRA are currently consulting on the costs. We believe they have underestimated the revenue likely to be generated by submissions, and there is the potential to have these costs reduced.

These costs will only affect you if you are a manufacturer or an importer.

8. What is going to happen with batteries, box mods, variable voltage and wattage devices?
Batteries and mods will not be affected by the legislation.

9. What about clearomisers and rebuildable devices?
All clearomisers will have to undergo emissions testing. Manufacturers and importers will need to submit them to the MHRA 6 months before being put on the market.

There is also a leak free refilling requirement.

Existing standards for leak free refilling are fairly simple. For example, to check if a container has leaked, you simply wipe the container and see if there is liquid on the outside. Companies like Japan Tobacco are assuming that these existing standards will be applied.

However, there are additional requirements:
  • E-liquids must have a 1cm long nozzle, and emit no more than 20 drops of refill liquid per minute when placed vertically
  • There needs to be a docking mechanism for the refill mechanism.
Our current understanding is these requirements are an either/or.

However, there is still uncertainty around the implementation of the leak free refilling part of the TPD. There are also rumours that the UK government is challenging the need for a docking mechanism.

10. Do you know of any particular signage I need to display in my store from May 20h 2016?
No.

However, you already need to comply with age restrictions guidelines, which includes a requirement to display age posters. You can find a guide to compliance on our blog. Get in touch to request posters and logs.

11. After May 20th 2016, how long do we have to implement the TPD?
You can continue to sell existing products until October 20th. If you submit notifications for existing products, you can continue to sell them until May 20th.

Vaping products after May 20 will have to be compliant with the EU TPD, and have been notified 6 months prior to selling.

12. I’ve also heard only Tobacco flavours can be sold, and there will be no more “Flavours”.
Countries have the option to ban flavours other than tobacco. However, the UK has chosen not to take these options.

13. What other restrictions will there be on e-liquid?
Glass bottles will no longer be allowed. E-liquid will be restricted to 10ml bottles, and 2% will be the maximum strength allowed.

13. How will we advertise?
Advertising will be severely restricted, although again the UK has taken a very minimalist approach to implementing the TPD. We’ll be covering the restrictions (and how to thrive under them) in a later post, but here’s a quick summary:

What’s allowed:
  • online tutorials and information
  • trade shows
  • trade magazines
  • leaflets/posters
  • billboards
What’s not allowed:
  • tv/radio advertising
  • product placement
  • newspapers/periodicals/magazines
  • marketing emails
  • online promotions
  • social media marketing
Keep Your Chin Up!
The EU TPD isvery poor legislation.

It was so badly conceived that the scientists quoted by the commission wrote en masse that their studies had been misinterpreted.

Fortunately, the UK government has been understanding. As a result, we are likely to have one of the most liberal interpretations of the TPD in the EU.

While the restrictions will increase costs and choice, and reduce the pace of innovation, it’s NOT the end of the British e-cig industry.

More Information
We’ll update the post as:
  • information becomes clarified
  • as more questions come through
Do let us know any unanswered questions you have!
 
Upvote 0
My big worry about ecigs is that they will start being prescribed on the NHS as one of the approved stop smoking aids. If that happens your business is going to tank pretty quickly. There has already been some serious talk about that so keep an eye out.

No one is going to want to buy ecigs if they can get them for the price of a prescription on the NHS. Same with nicotine patches today. Most people just get them on the NHS rather than paying the full price in a shop.
 
Upvote 0
My big worry about ecigs is that they will start being prescribed on the NHS as one of the approved stop smoking aids. If that happens your business is going to tank pretty quickly. There has already been some serious talk about that so keep an eye out.

No one is going to want to buy ecigs if they can get them for the price of a prescription on the NHS. Same with nicotine patches today. Most people just get them on the NHS rather than paying the full price in a shop.

Hi Cromulent,

That's an understandable worry, but I think that rather underestimates the range of choice of e-cigs available and the inherent problems with the licensing process.

The problem with the e-voke (the single licensed product currently available), is that the licensing procedure takes so long that that their technology is two years out of date. In fact, in the debate over whether e-cigs should be licensed, one of the big fears is that the medical devices available will be so poor compared to what's available on the market that they will put people off vaping.

On the other hand, some vapers believe it will be a positive, as it may encourage people to try more effective devices.

In addition, if you have a little look at the industry, you'll find a huge range of devices available. There are many thousands of reviews on different products, and the pros and cons of each device are hotly contested in dedicated forums and online. A handful of medical devices won't be able to replicate this.

Finally, the fact it has been licensed for medical use doesn't yet mean it will be utilised by the NHS. In fact, funds are currently being cut for smoking cessation services as many people are using vaping devices as an alternative to smoking instead of using NHS Stop Smoking Services.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Fergus Mason
Upvote 0
The problem with the e-voke (the single licensed product currently available), is that the licensing procedure takes so long that that their technology is two years out of date.
It's a lot more than two years out of date; more like six. In fact it's just a 2009 cigalike design that's now being manufactured with pharma quality control standards. As an actual e-cig it's rubbish.

There's no doubt the TPD is a massive blow, but the UK seems to be interpreting it as liberally as possible. That means there's still a market there for anyone who wants to sell the right products.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ECigDirect
Upvote 0
I know this is an old thread - and it's only been brought back by someone who is touting for business... but...

You've really got to love the ingenuity of how this all came about... i.e. smoking an electric bong... in public... and Legally! it's brilliant! :D :D

Some dude sat at home toking on a bong and they thought how can we make this legal...
 
Upvote 0
If you look at it that way it is over to start with anything. Every niche is filled.

You must be able to work through it and make yourself and your brand unique.

There are many techniques you can learn.
 
Upvote 0

Latest Articles