Another Cold Caller Defeated

[Working First Aid]

You are quite right. I spoke to the member 'first aid training' yesterday, saw your posts and got confused as we had a conversation about this subject yesterday.

Apologies.:redface:

No problem at all

 

[eventdomain]

You'll find the majority of anti telesales people on this thread actually have a fear of cold calling

Cold calling is NOT a natural act, and I dont think people are afraid of the word 'No thanks' or 'Not interested' - do you? But its out of order to assign the word 'fear' to people on here, as I reckon most have a telesales background

I reckon its about the interest of the task - telesales isnt an interesting job okay, I worked in this call centre and there were 5 outbounds agents compared to 60 inbound sales agents, yet both teams were selling as us 'soft-callers' still had to make our targets.

So thats 60 bods in a room dealing with Cruise enquiries, complaints and on top trying to flog extras too. The stress wasnt good, we could only spend max of 5 minutes with a customer (deadly serious about it too), and we had the bosses shouting at us if our quota of hourly calls didnt get answered.

We had this big projected board, which had every agent's name, No of calls made, time per call etc and the management used this - god, it was like working in a McDonalds - I kidd you not with some jumped-up spotty Team-Leader on your back..... and they used to stand right behind you and 'give advice' while you're trying to deal with the customer.

What a nightmare

 

[kate1]

Its all in the approach to people, I dont read from a script, I dont do "you can save money" basically I ask about the person I am calling, it turns into more of a conversation than a sales call, and there in lies the difference, seasoned callers know what to do. The likes of Maxine, Montaigne, CC, telemax, they do this for a living. We are all seasoned callers and been doing this for a long, long time - yes I understand you may get calls from not so experienced people, but you cant knock the whole industry

 

[bdw]

The likes of Maxine, Montaigne, CC, telemax, they do this for a living. We are all seasoned callers and been doing this for a long, long time - yes I understand you may get calls from not so experienced people, but you cant knock the whole industry

I am not sure I have knocked the whole industry and I am sure that one of you will correct me if I am wrong.

What I will say is that about 1 in 50 sales calls I receive catch my attention and this is often achieved through lies and deceit. Quite a coincidence that all the pros and good guys are here, in this thread, eh?

Now say what you like and be as abusive as you like but this is my honest experience.

.

 

[kate1]

Dont need to be abusive or nasty BDW, not in my nature - its just distinguishing between the guys that have been doing this for a long time, like Maxine, like CC etc. I run a company based on talking to people, not aggressive, just building relationships really - I think what us guys get fed up with is being grouped into one catergory and we are all the same. The people I work for I really care about, if I dont deliver results I feel bad - but I dont call small businesses. Nobody working on their own, however any punt is worth listening to. Chappy above said about cold calling and if you cant do it yourself your not prepared to listen to it, there is some truth in that, because you will always physiologically be on the defensive.

 

[maxine]

I agree with the whole concept of CTPS as I believe it helps reduce two opposite types of business people from talking to each other and wasting each others time.

There will be people who find being interrupted with 'nuisance calls' to be the most annoying and offensive thing on the planet. Then there will be people who will give it a few seconds before deciding if the call was targeted towards them properly for a reason and be a bit more open minded.

Unfortunately when people put their numbers onto CTPS because they feel strongly about it, it does not provide a fail safe guarantee that they won't get calls in future as lots of people ignore it or don't know of it. Plus it's not effective against calls from abroad or silent or recorded calls or those that with hold their numbers!

There are lots examples of the lengths of hate and anger some people will go to out of frustration but as Kate says it's not correct to lump this into "telemarketing industry". We are not the only people drumming up new business via the phone. Just look at the threads on UKBF alone where people (who are not telemarketers for a living but just happen to do it for their business) who are blissfully unaware of CTPS/TPS rules. There was a thread on here not long ago from a member (website designer) who was making unsolicited calls from forum postings!

People on here might need to look a bit closer to home when thinking about blame!

 

[kate1]

Thats the trouble Maxine, we get lumped together.

 

[maxine]

NB: This is normally a point in a cold calling thread where

* Someone will say that the whole of UK businesses need to 'opt in' to receive calls
* Others will point out that this will have it's flaws
* People will agree to disagree
* The spammers will arrive promoting their cold calling and lead generation services
* Everyone will get the hump and the thread will fizzle out.

Wager?

 

[maxine]

Thats the trouble Maxine, we get lumped together.

I know, it's understandable really. I mean we call in our client's names so how are people expected to know if we are industry people or muggles

 

[maxine]

I know! I just popped in to action reported threads and spam but keep seeing replies to this thread every time I log on

Have a good one CC ... doing anything nice this weekend? Taking your pooch to a cafe?

 

[captaincloser]

I know! I just popped in to action reported threads and spam but keep seeing replies to this thread every time I log on

Have a good one CC ... doing anything nice this weekend? Taking your pooch to a cafe?

I have just brought the little fella back from a late coffee in a very smart (food) pub round the corner ! Yes, tomorrow he will be going to a cafe that sells food and coffee and takes a ton of money whilst allowing all well behaved dogs in. Not hard really....a real gap in the market in many towns.

Have a good one Maxine. We live to fight another week...

 

[eventdomain]

I mean we call in our client's names

Well here lies the problem and its deception straight away. So you approach companies, make out your someone your not, so you just lied to your client's, prospective client and you expect them to trust you.

OMG - you know I deal with SEO companies all the time, they register with their own details, and later when I bill what I think are clients, I discover many dont know who I am - it quickly becomes clear that an SEO company has pretended to be the client and also not told the client whats going on

I so hate companies that keep pulling this crap!

 

[maxine]

Well it's not quite the same.

My clients want us to call in their name as its brand awareness and relationship building.

If it makes you feel even worse then I'm afraid to say this also includes emailing from their email addresses, handling their inbound sales and marketing calls, customer support calls, customer complaints and more. Sometimes we even have fake names to go with the campaigns.

There is logic to this and it's all agreed with clients

 

[kate1]

People outsource Event because they dont have the resources in house. They dont have the budget to employ staff - its not deception, its working on behalf of somebody that dosent have 20K to employ a sales person. They have no NI to pay, no holiday, no sick pay - not sure whats wrong with that? Client determines hours, client is in control.

 

[captaincloser]

Well here lies the problem and its deception straight away. So you approach companies, make out your someone your not, so you just lied to your client's, prospective client and you expect them to trust you.

Ever heard of voiceovers, advertising, endorsements...? Ever heard people say 'I am calling on behalf of...' ?

Goodness me the air must be pure in the Eventdomain world.

 

[bdw]

Unfortunately when people put their numbers onto CTPS because they feel strongly about it, it does not provide a fail safe guarantee that they won't get calls in future as lots of people ignore it or don't know of it.

And that is what angers many people including myself but probably the majority of cold calls my wife and I receive are from people who drop the call like a hot potato when we mention the TPS. They are obviously very well aware of the system and choose to ignore it until it is mentioned. That's a fact, as I am sure many of you who have signed up will be aware.

There was a thread on here not long ago from a member (website designer) who was making unsolicited calls from forum postings! People on here might need to look a bit closer to home when thinking about blame!

I am a web designer. Are you suggesting that I need to look closer to home? If not me then who? :|

.

 

[maxine]

Closer to home as in business owner web designer on ukbf. The point being its not a telemarketing industry person or large corporate call centre.

About 50% of consumer phone numbers are on tps in my experience which is a lot higher than 15-20% of business lists. The two segments are very different so we shouldn't keep comparing consumer with business

 

[captaincloser]

And that is what angers many people including myself but probably the majority of cold calls my wife and I receive are from people who drop the call like a hot potato when we mention the TPS. They are obviously very well aware of the system and choose to ignore it until it is mentioned. That's a fact, as I am sure many of you who have signed up will be aware.

I am a web designer. Are you suggesting that I need to look closer to home? If not me then who? :|

.

<<<Personal comments removed by mod>>>

You may be surprised that I also despise calls to my home but have the sense to know how truly toothless TPS is.

An answering machine or call blocker is what you may need.

CTPS is an even bigger waste of energy. I know of people who target CTPS numbers for business (but not one man bands), There have been no serious prosecutions involving CTPS unless someone knows different.

As for web designers cold calling or touting for business I too cannot believe that bdw. It sounds horrendous and probably you have something in your artcles of engagement for Scottish web designers that specifically bans that practice. Can anyone imagine the ignomy of a cold call from a web designer and being so totally impotent oneself that a 'no thank you' cannot pass one's lips ?

Its a hard life.

 

[Tin]

Have deleted the last few posts as they are nothing to do with the discussion and were merely getting personal.

Please guys keep it on topic without the personal jibes.

Ray

 

[eventdomain]

Goodness me the air must be pure in the Eventdomain world.

And no the air in my world aint that pure, its just I dont insult people's intelligence by trying to be smart! I dnt feel the need to prove stuff all the time, I let other things take care of that.

Ever heard of voiceovers, advertising, endorsements...? Ever heard people say 'I am calling on behalf of...' ?

I've forgotten more about the bs sales stuff than you'll ever know.

I dont see why people cant get right to point with a sales call - all these dumb tactics, trying to be your friend stuff and getting 'personal' on the phone like they've been doing business together for years or make out their doing you this huge favour or that their your 'best mate', is just so laughable.

I would have thought you'd have known that the smallest thing can cost you a sale.....

 

[kate1]

Think Event, you have to understand this - we are not all the same, I certainly dont act if I am anybodies "best buddy" this is where we differentiate from probably the calls you are getting, and this is where we are being "lumped together again"

Lot of people on here in this industry have been doing this job for a very long time, got businesses, got staff etc. I think you are probably talking about call centres, and possibly inexperienced staff.

Just that the industry cannot continuously be lumped together under one umbrella.

 

[eventdomain]

I think you are probably talking about call centres, and possibly inexperienced staff.

I'm talking about 90% (at least) of all sales callers in the last 3 years, I've personally dealt with. Its that rather large percentage that unfortunately makes the difference, and the small amount of perfect tele-agents you and CC, so align yourself with, doesnt register when people's calls happens, so any effectiveness of that 'perfect salesperson' caller, loses its impact as the damage from all previous sales calls has taken its toll

Actually, I only know of 1 caller from NTL, who knew what he was doing, and that was probably the most bs-free, pressure free sales calls I had in years. I'd do business with NTL, based on that call, provided I wanted the product of course...

 

[scottgw]

Interesting thread and it clearly shows why our Country is still in recession perhaps you should all realise that whatever business you are in whether you are the owner or just an employee it is highly likely that the company would not exist if someone had not sold something, it still suprises me that a salesman in this Country is not regarded as a professional and a much needed asset.

Especially as it seems some of the comments are from Directors of companies, surely in order for your company to exist it has to sell something either a product or service, otherwise you would not be in business.

Maybe if everyone started to treat salesman with respect and listened to what they said with full attention, when your sales people called other prospects they would have a better chance to increase your companies profits.

Just a thought!

 

[kate1]

"Small amount of perfect tele-agents you and CC, so align yourself with"

I find that slightly patronising. No one is perfect, I dont call one man bands Event, even if I did my courtesy, politeness would still remain the same.

Not being funny or anything in 21 years Ive probably had 2 nasty people.

So when somebody rings you and its a sales call, what do you say? Not interested whatever your selling?

Like I said its all about how you approach people.....

Never say how are you today, never over familiarise myself. You have to reflect the person you are speaking to. But you learn that from doing the job for so long.

 

[captaincloser]

"Small amount of perfect tele-agents you and CC, so align yourself with"

I find that slightly patronising. No one is perfect, I dont call one man bands Event, even if I did my courtesy, politeness would still remain the same.

Hi Kate.Nobody can be slightly patronising...one is either patronising or not. This guy is patronising you and I -- but what do we care ?

Like you I cannot remember anyone being rude to me in many, many years. This particular thread and others like it are a well worn free ride for trolley merchants as they unload their basic unhappiness onto a business forum addressed to an anonymous but presumed avid readership-except nobody is really following this apart from salespeople. There is no fulfilment and nothing short of serious therapy will ever resolve the underlying anger that plagues this country and pervades the UKBF sales forum, from some identifiably 'angry' people. Nothing to do with getting sales calls

Business is about sales.As a previous poster says...nothing happens until sales are made. I am about sales. I make a ton of income getting sales professionaly and fail to see how I will ever be tripped up by posters on here trying to big themselves up at my expense...and no I was never a tele-agent whatever that might be. I am a salesman and as usual waiting in the winners enclosure for others to taunt me. Success in sales has always gone hand in hand with withering comments from those in life..who ...well, haven't quite made it is maybe a polite way of putting it. One of lifes little conundrums I reckon...basic unhappiness with life manifesting itself in tirades against salespeople.

I love this thread Kate as you do, and all threads like it..simply because I earn a lot of money, have a history of making others a ton of money and find I sleep as well at night as my clients and my customers.

The spluttering ,backfiring bile is frankly a side show and I am happy to entertain it until the proverbial sky falls in, the pigeons come home to roost, the boat comes in , the cows come home, and , of course, the fat lady sings.

I remain singularly untouched by these threads and always happy to defend sales as I know many other salespeople are on here and wish them all continued success in their endeavours

 

[eventdomain]

Not being funny or anything in 21 years Ive probably had 2 nasty people.

Like you I cannot remember anyone being rude to me in many, many years.

I dont think so considering the telesales industry being so relentless and a UK population of 65 million largly being hit by it daily , you two must be highly skilled in the art of evasion to miss any abuse - even minor abuse at that.

The only ones on here who have an agenda here are the professional sales oufits, with a self-awarded perfect reputation to protect. I dont use telesales campaigns, so thus cannot have an agenda to defend.

Also the sheer amount of unhappiness that CC pointed out, isnt self-generated you know, it was put there by incompetent sales staff, run by companies whose main strategy is to play a numbers game and hassle prospective customers, who arent really identified prospects in the first place.

I used to have no problem with sales calls, except when they get out of hand, and with the auto-diallers, over-seas callers, phone scams etc, it becomes necessary to screen them.

The fact so much cold calling is actually untargeted, and poorly researched, just shows why so many businesses are unhappy, so its not made up, this is a real issue for many. Also many salespeople make the mistake of assuming a well-setup company needs what tey have and cant possibly have suppliers in place, even for the most basic products and services.....

the underlying anger that plagues this country and pervades the UKBF sales forum, from some identifiably 'angry' people. Nothing to do with getting sales calls

yep - the anger has nothing to do with sale calls, your so right.

 

[kate1]

No, no abuse in 21 years

 

[captaincloser]

No, no abuse in 21 years

But you are only 24 ?

 

[kate1]

Hold up 25

 

[captaincloser]

you two must be highly skilled in the art of evasion to miss any abuse - even minor abuse at that.



I used to have no problem with sales calls, except when they get out of hand, and with the auto-diallers, over-seas callers, phone scams etc, it becomes necessary to screen them.

The fact so much cold calling is actually untargeted, and poorly researched, just shows why so many businesses are unhappy, so its not made up, this is a real issue for many.

In all seriousness I take your point with regard to auto diallers and phone scams. They are the limit.

The reason I get no abuse, not even minor, is my voice. I do not sound like a jerk and that's the key. Everyone gets annoyed with jerks on the phone. I have cold called thousands of people in my business lifetime but I have never blindly called anyone if that makes sense ? The biggest turn off is people who sound like jerks working scripts to people who are in the wrong business..

I would not try and sell Henry the gerbil to a pigeon fancier...but I would certainly call as many gerbil owners that it takes to move Henry along !

With these two attributes you get no abuse- except on here

...Oh and never, never cold call residential numbers .That's a golden rule for me, strictly B2B unless invited to call a mobile or home number.

Simples

 

[kate1]

Yes all in the voice

 

[FreelanceSoftwareDeveloper]

I'll have to try the "give me your home number and i'll phone you back later" one, that's brilliant!

For me an instant fail would be "can I speak to ... anything other than my name", the owner/manager/person who deals with... "No" hang up, they obviously don't know me so I have no reason to talk to them.

So firstly, you have to know my name, at least then I have to give you a few more seconds to decide what it is about.

I'll mostly just hang up on them mid-sentence if i'm not interested, there is no point trying to politely say no as they always try to question the objection (as sales people are trained to do).

Very rare that i'm rude to them, unless they get me at a really bad time when i'm in the middle of something but have to answer the phone as i'm expecting a call, or if the same company keeps phoning every few days, then they may get something offensive said to them!

 

[Prestigehampers]

So who wants facebook marketing Selling to them by a pro =]

 

[bdw]

Did you just get a call about this?

.

 

[Prestigehampers]

Nope i sell Facebook Marketing =]

 

[windlesham]

I'll have to try the "give me your home number and i'll phone you back later" one, that's brilliant!

For me an instant fail would be "can I speak to ... anything other than my name", the owner/manager/person who deals with... "No" hang up, they obviously don't know me so I have no reason to talk to them.

So firstly, you have to know my name, at least then I have to give you a few more seconds to decide what it is about.

I'll mostly just hang up on them mid-sentence if i'm not interested, there is no point trying to politely say no as they always try to question the objection (as sales people are trained to do).

Very rare that i'm rude to them, unless they get me at a really bad time when i'm in the middle of something but have to answer the phone as i'm expecting a call, or if the same company keeps phoning every few days, then they may get something offensive said to them!

I think hanging up the telephone mid sentence would be considered rude by most people

 

[quikshop]

I think hanging up the telephone mid sentence would be considered rude by most people

Refusing to accept a conversation is over is considered rude by most people

The point of my original post was to see what response direct sales sorts would give when faced with my conversation-ending single question.

Someone mentioned earlier that if everyone treated sales people with respect and listened in full to their sales pitch, everyone would make more money.

For that to happen, the majority of sales people would need to start acting professionally and not view a sales call as a must-close call guided by their script-dictated time scale.

The majority of business-2-consumer cold calls by their very nature are a battle of wills; it's a controlled conflict and there is no point denying it.

 

[Ameliepoole]

some sales calls are good
these people are only doing a job
why not ask them "how could your service benefit me?"
and given them 2 minutes

 

[eventdomain]

why not ask them "how could your service benefit me?"

Well, unless their product is unique and superior compared to the whats available, why should I bother buying from them when chances are, I already have what their offering and perfectly happy with it.

Take printer cartridges - how is one HP inkjet cartridge better than the next retail suppliers? Answer = it cant be, as HP distribute the same product to many outlets. The only thing suppliers can do is to compete on price, and we all know once you switch to them, they'll only increase their prices at a later date.

 

[windlesham]

Refusing to accept a conversation is over is considered rude by most people

So the answer is to lower your level of professionalism because of perceived rudeness on the part of the caller. I don't think I'll be following that method. Nor do I think the majority of business people need to adopt these tactics.