Am i stealing? what would you do?

[mirb]

It began about a week ago. I signed up on one of the largest retailer to buy my weekly groceries. The next day after i placed my order, i got a phone call saying that there was a problem on their end so they couldnt deliver the groceries on the booked time slot, and for the good gesture, i was offered a dicount voucher of £30. I said fine by me, and they deliver the groceries on the following day.

Yesterday, i was trying to buy my weekly groceries again and found out that the voucher is still in my account and will expire on the 11th of December 2010 !!.

So in theory, i could buy everything off that supermarket for free (appart from the delivery charge) of any item worth £30,..everyday,.. for the next 3 months (approx). So far, i have only used it twice. I dont have any plan to abuse it, but if i use it again and again, does that mean i am stealing..?

Should i tell them and ask..? or should i keep my head low? what would you do..?

 

[360interactive]

Depends on your conscience. The risk is you use it and they turn around and ask for the money back or take you to court.

The chances are they wouldn't notice, but dare you take the risk?

 

[RedEvo]

You need to ask? For fox ache!

d

 

[filtuh.com]

I wouldn't tust you with my money. I wouldn't do business with you.

Own up now imo, claim you made an honest mistake on using it twice, but realised that they have an error in their system. It will be worth a lot more than £30 a week to gain a reputation of honesty. Or rather avoid the cost to reputation for dishonesty.

 

[papverpoppies]

It began about a week ago. I signed up on one of the largest retailer to buy my weekly groceries. The next day after i placed my order, i got a phone call saying that there was a problem on their end so they couldnt deliver the groceries on the booked time slot, and for the good gesture, i was offered a dicount voucher of £30. I said fine by me, and they deliver the groceries on the following day.

Yesterday, i was trying to buy my weekly groceries again and found out that the voucher is still in my account and will expire on the 11th of December 2010 !!.

So in theory, i could buy everything off that supermarket for free (appart from the delivery charge) of any item worth £30,..everyday,.. for the next 3 months (approx). So far, i have only used it twice. I dont have any plan to abuse it, but if i use it again and again, does that mean i am stealing..?

Should i tell them and ask..? or should i keep my head low? what would you do..?

I think you will find that once you get to the checkout, their system will recognise that you have used the voucher.

Its rather like the club card points you receive for spending so much - I typed in the code of one I had used the week before - I got the message that this was NO longer redeemable.

One way or another they will work it out, so no do not take the risk.
I take it they have your card details stored on their system for buying online, so if you do try and use it again and again, they will probably deduct your account for said amount (I take it they are allowed to do this) and you have admitted on here to 'thinking' about it.

POppy xx

Just read you have already done this, and admitted to doing it on a forum - not good!

 

[tony84]

why not do your shopping as you usually would, leave the money to 1 side for 12 months.

If they dont notice within a year (when they do their accounts) then i would reckon your safe.

 

[RedEvo]

why not do your shopping as you usually would, leave the money to 1 side for 12 months.

If they dont notice within a year (when they do their accounts) then i would reckon your safe.

Eh.....because it would be dishonest?

d

 

[papverpoppies]

They offer you £30 for messing up a delivery, which I think is very generous, and then you want more (and some other posters, also think this is ok).

I wonder how those posters would feel if it was their business that was being stolen from - probably come whinging on here asking for 'help'!


Poppy xx

 

[Frankus]

I can't believe someone coming on here and suggesting that they steal from a supermarket - and ask us if we agree to it!!

This forum (unless I am mistaken) is meant for, and used predominantly by, decent, honest business people or aspiring business people. If this sort of behaviour is accepted and even condoned, then how can anyone trust anyone on here to deal honestly?

"Hey, I got this scheme whereby you contact all small businesses with an attractive email...when they open it, it finds their bank account and empties it...is this ok? I've only destroyed 13 self employed people so far"

Right?

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Every time you use that voucher, you commit fraud. and there is a complete paper trail , so if you are happy breaking the law and risking jail, then go for it.

I am assuming of course that you are a dishonest person who sees stealing as acceptable and going to jail as an occupational hazzard.

You have broken the law once (by stealing £30 of groceries from the store), and now it seems easy.

Here is my thoughts on this matter, don't expect anyone who connects you to this thread to ever trust you.

 

[cjd]

does that mean i am stealing..?

Yes.

Email them and tell them that you think they've made a mistake and your discount has been used twice. They'll probably thank you, may let the 2nd discount stand, won't prosecute you and you'll sleep nights.

 

[Mike W]

Yes.

Email them and tell them that you think they've made a mistake and your discount has been used twice. They'll probably thank you, may let the 2nd discount stand, won't prosecute you and you'll sleep nights.

Well done that man. Good suggestion and probably right.

 

[iArtist]

In my humble opinion, I think you'll find a bill for everything you've spent in excess of that voucher. There may be a blip in the system but at some point it will correct itself and that is what'll happen so I suspect you're getting nothing other than your vouchers value. Be careful not to overspend pending BIG bill!

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

I bet a large number of people would use the voucher a few times - especially if they were on benefits or otherwise strapped for cash.

However, using it again and again is really not a good idea. It really takes the mickey from a moral point of view (especially when they've gave you that kind gesture in the first place), and it's simply very risky.

You'll probably get different answers here though compared to other places. We're business owners, so we understand what this would be like if we were in the position of the retailer with one of our smaller businesses. If you were one of my customers and I offered you a £30 goodwill voucher which you later re-used on multiple occasions, I'd be utterly fuming.

 

[RedEvo]

I bet a large number of people would use the voucher a few times - especially if they were on benefits or otherwise strapped for cash.

So, poor people are dishonest? I think you'll find that's bullshit. The people who would use it over and over are criminals and they come from all social groupings.

d

 

[MASSEY]

Just buy your shopping as you would normally, the money you spend put aside.

If december comes and you dont get asked for the money, all well and good.

Treat yourself over christmas

 

[cjd]

"A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it; and 'thief' and 'steal' shall be construed accordingly."

It doesn't matter that it's online or that the company made a mistake - the word 'intent' is there for a reason.

 

[estwig]

Some things where meant to be and if there's a few free spuds innit, fill ya boots!!

 

[Scoop]

£30 for your integrity and self esteem hey? Seems cheap.

You know it doesn't sit right with you or you wouldn't be on a social forum looking for affirmation from strangers, you'd just keep taking advantage of it.
Do the right thing and take pride in yourself, even if no one else gets to see it or pat you on the back.

 

[MASSEY]

I think the op could easily get away with it if they were found out.

I know when i buy my online shopping i never look at my statements to see the figure i got charged.

I would just treat it as compensation for all the times they subsitute me with ridiculous products.

Like a wooden spoon instead of a frying pan

 

[LicensedToTrade]

No you aren't stealing and no it isn't fraud. Is it dishonest? Yes extremely dishonest.

Can you be taken to court? No. If what you were doing was fraud then 90% of the members of moneysavingexpert.com would be fraudsters every time they used a technology exploit that was posted on the website.

When Tesco or any other company uses an ecommerce system the responsibility falls on them to ensure that their technology works correctly. Tesco lose money left, right and centre in their stores everyday on 'mis-prices' this is where the system price is much lower than the labelled price and so the consumer makes a saving when it is scanned. It is dishonest for the consumer to not report such an error, but not illegal. The same rule of thumb applies to your situation.

It is Tesco's responsibility to close off any errors like this. If it were me however I would report the issue, as a matter of principle.

 

[Graemem]

If it's Tesco... I say take them down

They'll probably notice the error shortly anyway, I doubt it'll only affect you. If it's repeatedly used it'll probably be noticed, whether they could actually tell you to repay the money I don't know - It's their mistake.

Personally I'd probably email them to tell them, maybe "accidentally" use it again to check that it really is a bug first though...

 

[Beachcomber]

Could anyone help me answer this question.

How large does a business have to be before it's ok to steal from them?

If the OP was refering to a repeatable discount from a sole trader I'm sure everyone would pretty much condemn him for thinking of messing with a blokes livelyhood.

What is the bloke had 3 employees? or 30, or 300?

So, how large does your business need to be before it's ok to steal from them? And why?

 

[LicensedToTrade]

Could anyone help me answer this question.

How large does a business have to be before it's ok to steal from them?

If the OP was refering to a repeatable discount from a sole trader I'm sure everyone would pretty much condemn him for thinking of messing with a blokes livelyhood.

What is the bloke had 3 employees? or 30, or 300?

So, how large does your business need to be before it's ok to steal from them? And why?

It seems like a void question, I can only see where a couple of people have given the OP support for his actions. The OP asked if he was stealing, from a legal perspective he isn't stealing or committing fraud. The legal position doesn't change based on the size of the business.

 

[Nine Fish]

I think that you should follow your heart and if you are happy to keep using the voucher then you should do so, its your decision and cannot be made for you by members of a forum.

Just remember that every action has a reaction, good or bad, to obtain monies or goods by deception is not a healthy way to live your life

This is unlucky money, put it down as a life lesson, dont use the voucher again and donate double your gain to charity.

 

[Frankus]

It's NEVER ok to steal. From anyone.

 

[Graemem]

It's NEVER ok to steal. From anyone.

Think of all the small businesses that have went bust thanks to Tesco. Not really much better than stealing I don't think :|

 

[cjd]

he isn't stealing or committing fraud.

Of course he's stealing. If he deliberately claims a discount knowing that he's used it before and that he's not entitled to it, he's stealing. A magistrate would take about 30 seconds to convict someone who repeatedly and knowingly took advantage of this situation.

Whether the company would prosecute is another issue.....

 

[LicensedToTrade]

Of course he's stealing. If he deliberately claims a discount knowing that he's used it before and that he's not entitled to it, he's stealing. A magistrate would take about 30 seconds to convict someone who repeatedly and knowingly took advantage of this situation.

Whether the company would prosecute is another issue.....

Please substantiate this by telling exactly which law is being contravened and please also cite legal precedence. This wouldn't make it to a magistrates court whether Tesco filed or not.

 

[cjd]

Please substantiate this by telling exactly which law is being contravened and please also cite legal precedence. This wouldn't make it to a magistrates court whether Tesco filed or not.

Perhaps you missed it first time around

"A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it....."

Note the uses of the words 'dishonestly', 'intent' and 'property'.

You may think that because it's the internet that somehow the normal laws of the land don't apply but I suggest you don't test it.

 

[Beachcomber]

It seems like a void question, I can only see where a couple of people have given the OP support for his actions. The OP asked if he was stealing, from a legal perspective he isn't stealing or committing fraud. The legal position doesn't change based on the size of the business.

I think you missed the point.
I was refering to the moral rather than legal angle. All those who say go for it and take what you can get would probably never dream of stealing from a sole trader or small businessman.

Just wondered where the cut-off is - how big do you need to be before you are a legitimate target?

Think of all the small businesses that have went bust thanks to Tesco. Not really much better than stealing I don't think :|

Thats not stealing, it's competition.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

So, poor people are dishonest? I think you'll find that's bullshit. The people who would use it over and over are criminals and they come from all social groupings.

d

It's actually amusing how you took:

I bet a large number of people would use the voucher a few times - especially if they were on benefits or otherwise strapped for cash.

And then accused me of claiming 'poor people are dishonest' . Also, I didn't say 'over and over'. I said a few times. Anyone who used it over and over would basically be asking to be caught and rightly so.

Cut the moral stuff for a second and look at the bare facts. Let's take someone who is struggling to make ends meet, pay bills and buy food for their family. They get a £30 voucher, spend it, and then out of Tesco's own error, the voucher still remains.

Realistically, a lot of people in this country would use it again, and perhaps even a few more times. You can look at the morals of being honest with a multi-billion pound corporation, or you can look at someone struggling with bills who would be able to get their food without paying for a week or perhaps longer.

Yes it's dishonest, but I bet people would still do it. You can't deny that surely? If someone who was very financially stable didn't declare the error, then I'd find it far worse. However, I'd fully expect someone struggling with bills to have a moral battle on their hands as they decide whether to use it again, or flag up the error. After all, we're only human.

By the way, I bet a lot of people who are struggling with money would own up immediately and let Tesco know about the error as well. I just know there would be many on the other side of the fence too.

 

[Graemem]

Thats not stealing, it's competition.

I didn't say it was stealing, I said it wasn't much better. Big companies like them take advantage of people constantly, I have no sympathy for them. Taste of their own medicine really

 

[LicensedToTrade]

Perhaps you missed it first time around

"A person is guilty of theft if he dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it....."

Note the uses of the words 'dishonestly', 'intent' and 'property'.

You may think that because it's the internet that somehow the normal laws of the land don't apply but I suggest you don't test it.

The legal precedence is still outstanding. As for whether it is the internet or not, in a previous post in this thread I gave an example of a bricks and mortar situation that amounted to the same thing. Please read my posts again, this time reading all of the content, not cherry picking.

A person is only guilty of theft by dishonesty if a court has made that judgement, not before. You are also refering to private individual law, there are different laws that apply to theft of goods from a corporation.

Yes what the OP has proposed is extremely dishonest, but if he was convicted in court for the crime of theft, he would be a legal first.

Right, i'm off to go bowling god help me...I think I need the side bumpers up. Wish me luck.

 

[KM-Tiger]

Not at all sure that this is clear cut theft. What has happened is that the OP has accepted an erroneous offer, and I think that's more a moral than a legal issue.

Funnily enough, I had some biscuits with tea this afternoon that my wife purchased from Tesco's for 9p a packet. That was the price both shelf label and scan. Should she have refused to buy them as the price is clearly wrong? Am I now an accessory to theft by eating them?

 

[cjd]

I'm sure you're right; the law couldn't possibly apply to someone intentionally defrauding a company. I have no idea what I was thinking about.

 

So, poor people are dishonest? I think you'll find that's bullshit. The people who would use it over and over are criminals and they come from all social groupings.

d

So how often do you visit Earth.?

Not a lot of wealthy people in the dock these days.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/poverty-pushing-young-into-crime-1473256.html

Earl

 

[LicensedToTrade]

I'm sure you're right; the law couldn't possibly apply to someone intentionally defrauding a company. I have no idea what I was thinking about.

Sarcasm doesn't hold up too well in court either . I'm yet to see your case number to determine legal precedence...therefore your legal argument is defunct.

 

[estwig]

So how often do you visit Earth.?

Not a lot of wealthy people in the dock these days.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/poverty-pushing-young-into-crime-1473256.html

Earl

Just because wealthy people don't get caught and don't end up in the dock, doesn't mean they don't nick stuff. It just means they can afford to buy their way, outta the brown stuff!



Thieves in all walks of life, a sad fact.

 

[cjd]

The default position is that intent to defraud or steal is a criminal offense; I think you need to explain why it isn't.