Additional Bank Holidays - are you paying for them ?

[Talay]

All our staff are on 28 days holiday per year to include UK Bank Holidays.

So on VE day we got one extra, then the Platinum Jubilee earlier this year we got another, now another because the Queen has died. Are they going to have another one when they have the coronation ?

It is easy for directors of large companies who have little or no money invested to say close, back slapping all round but what about the smaller guys ?

Every day we close it costs me money, personally. Additionally, staff think they deserve the day off free whereas their contracts are quite clear at 28 days. Of course, they largely think it comes from the magic money tree that all business people have in the garden but frankly, I don't feel we should be railroaded into extra Bank Holidays.

We're going into the mother of all recessions and most folk cannot see it yet. Plucking multiple days takings from us and then asking us to pay for 100s of days extra holiday doesn't sit right with me.

 

[intheTRADE]

Don't close then and work and ask which members of your staff are willing to work then give them a day in lieu

Or dont for close at all and tell your staff none of them are getting the day off

Personally, we will be giving our staff next Monday off as the Nation Bank Holiday that has been declared

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

All our staff are on 28 days holiday per year to include UK Bank Holidays.

What is the actual reference to bank holidays in the contract? (It's much better when employment contracts don't mention bank holidays at all - if you decide to close, you just require them to take a day's leave, from 28 days allowance.)


Karl Limpert

 

[Talay]

Don't close then and work and ask which members of your staff are willing to work then give them a day in lieu

Or dont for close at all and tell your staff none of them are getting the day off

Personally, we will be giving our staff next Monday off as the Nation Bank Holiday that has been declared

What if they gave a week off or added another 6 or 7 Bank Holidays each year, still comfortable ?

 

[Talay]

What is the actual reference to bank holidays in the contract? (It's much better when employment contracts don't mention bank holidays at all - if you decide to close, you just require them to take a day's leave, from 28 days allowance.)


Karl Limpert

The contracts do actually mention Bank Holidays as otherwise, there has historically been confusion and some grief when the employee's wild assumptions were that "the law" said they had to have Bank Holidays off in addition to whatever their contractual days were.

The other issue is that they do plan their holidays well in advance, as they have to to get them signed off and many already have their 28 days allocated. The Platinum Jubilee then pushed some to 29 and now we have another pushing them to 30 with potentially Charles adding a further one for his coronation, making 31.

There is no option to work these days and if they have already allocated 28 days off, these 2 or 3 days is going to pose quite a problem unless I simply cover it, which I am loathe to do.

 

[intheTRADE]

What if they gave a week off or added another 6 or 7 Bank Holidays each year, still comfortable ?

Well neither of those is going to happen so yes still comfortable giving staff next Monday off. Our monarch isn't going to pass away every year

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Well neither of those is going to happen so yes still comfortable giving staff next Monday off. Our monarch isn't going to pass away every year

Well, in the UK if you provide leave for all bank holidays, we've already gone from the 20 days leave stipulated by European directives, to 28 days, to 30(+) days this year, if you include all possible bank holidays, so perhaps @Talay has a point - it has already happened!


Karl Limpert

 

[IanSuth]

All you need to do is ensure have contracts that say something to the effect of

"you are entitled to x days holiday per year (or pro rata if you work part time) which includes all statutory bank holidays (and if you have it) and the xmas/summer shutdown of x days"

Then it does not matter what extra bank holidays are granted - if you want to get really belt and braces - my old contract used to say " 3 days of leave must be retained to cover the xmas shutdown (even though that shutdown may occasionally extend to 4 days"

Nobody should really have contracts that are X days + bank holidays

 

[Newchodge]

All you need to do is ensure have contracts that say something to the effect of

"you are entitled to x days holiday per year (or pro rata if you work part time) which includes all statutory bank holidays (and if you have it) and the xmas/summer shutdown of x days"

Then it does not matter what extra bank holidays are granted - if you want to get really belt and braces - my old contract used to say " 3 days of leave must be retained to cover the xmas shutdown (even though that shutdown may occasionally extend to 4 days"

Nobody should really have contracts that are X days + bank holidays

I agree with your last point but it is amazing how many still do.

For a 5 day/week employee, if the contract states 20 days + statutory and bank holidays, even ignoring the additional bank holiday problem, you have a problem if someone only stays for 6 months.

Assume they start on 1 June and work for 6 months to end November. Contractually they are entitlerd to 10 days + 1 August bank holiday, but by law they must be paid 14 days' holiday.

Assume they start on 1 December and work for 6 months to end May. Contractually they must be paid 10 days plus 7 bank holidays, although by law they are only entitled to 14 days' holiday.

 

[simon field]

Contractually we have 20 days plus 8 bank holidays.

None of our staff give a flying fig, so just another (manic) Monday here…

 

[IanSuth]

Contractually we have 20 days plus 8 bank holidays.

None of our staff give a flying fig, so just another (manic) Monday here…

Then if I was you I would take the next opportunity to update those contracts.

I don't know who wrote them but if they have that type of wording it is likely other parts are equally iffy.

I don't to writing employment contracts so have no flag to fly but bad ones can really really be an expensive mistake - even not getting someone's retirement in writing once cost us £16k (long story but she carried on working ad hoc we went through a phoenix and she successfully claimed TUPE and redundancy for permanent service since the mid 70's)

 

[Talay]

Well, in the UK if you provide leave for all bank holidays, we've already gone from the 20 days leave stipulated by European directives, to 28 days, to 30(+) days this year, if you include all possible bank holidays, so perhaps @Talay has a point - it has already happened!


Karl Limpert

My real concern is that staff have either already booked their time off and thus don't have holiday allowances left to cover these unforeseen Bank Holidays or they don't want to use their remaining allowance to cover these days.

We are never legally mandated to close apart from perhaps Christmas Day and Easter Sunday I believe but we do close the traditional Bank Holidays as we would be foolish not to.

I guess I just don't want the aggro of saying it comes out of your holiday allowance and I don't want to pay for it.

 

[simon field]

Then if I was you I would take the next opportunity to update those contracts.

I don't know who wrote them but if they have that type of wording it is likely other parts are equally iffy.

I don't to writing employment contracts so have no flag to fly but bad ones can really really be an expensive mistake - even not getting someone's retirement in writing once cost us £16k (long story but she carried on working ad hoc we went through a phoenix and she successfully claimed TUPE and redundancy for permanent service since the mid 70's)

Which part would you rewrite?

 

[BustersDogs]

If they have no annual leave left, then it's just unpaid leave?

I just checked my contracts, as pet sitters we often work bank holidays to look after pets, so it states if a bank holiday falls on their normal working day they have to work as normal or request leave. If we close (due to no work) then they still have to take it as leave.

What caught me out was closing due to dangerous weather conditions, and that's not covered explicitly in my contracts, even though technically there was 'no work' as I had cancelled everything. Too tied into the bh comment I guess! Staff member was happy to take it as a day off until she walked out prior to having disciplinary proceedings start and suddenly she's demanding that she didn't agree to a day off as she would have worked and wants her holiday pay. She'd even shared a photo on social media of her cul-de-sac blocked by a fallen tree, but she *was happy to walk dogs*.

We decided to close Monday anyway, I only have one staff member at the moment, and it's my son so either I pay him and he pays some housekeeping for that day, or I don't pay him, and have to pay bills myself.. Most of my owners have replied that it was the appropriate thing to do anyway.

 

[IanSuth]

Which part would you rewrite?

Anything which says "bank holidays" - just state a total number of days leave (which is easier to pro rata for part timers as well) and if relevant state something about being directed to take some at particular times.

@Newchodge can explain it better - but if you start saying "bank holidays" then you add in uncertainty and issues you dont need to

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Don't close then and work and ask which members of your staff are willing to work then give them a day in lieu

Or dont for close at all and tell your staff none of them are getting the day off

Personally, we will be giving our staff next Monday off as the Nation Bank Holiday that has been declared

I missed the statement initially, where it's suggested that employers have to "ask your staff if they're willing to work".

What sort of employment relationship involves asking staff if they'll work (except zero hour contracts, where there is mutually no obligation)? And why would you need to give a day in lieu if staff actually work on a working day? In @Talay 's situation, I don't imagine the cost of a day's leave disappears if a day in lieu is taken, instead of a day off on Monday.


Seems other employers do agree with closing for the day, giving their staff the day off, and ignoring the needs of their customers in the process. Not all going well though - asking guests to stay elsewhere for 24 hours appears not to be popular. Or lawful.



Karl Limpert

 

[simon field]

It’s important to watch it on the telly. Live. I guess?

 

[Employment Law Clinic]

Well neither of those is going to happen so yes still comfortable giving staff next Monday off. Our monarch isn't going to pass away every year

Another bank holiday that the gov't have decided employers don't actually have to pay for, unless employers are happy to delegate the holiday part of their employment contracts to the gov't.

Extra bank holiday approved to mark King's coronation

The holiday will fall on Monday, 8 May, two days after the coronation of King Charles III.

www.bbc.co.uk

Karl Limpert

 

[WaveJumper]

Another bank holiday that the gov't have decided employers don't actually have to pay for, unless employers are happy to delegate the holiday part of their employment contracts to the gov't.

Extra bank holiday approved to mark King's coronation

The holiday will fall on Monday, 8 May, two days after the coronation of King Charles III.

www.bbc.co.uk

Karl Limpert

And @simon field will be able to spend the day (this time around) catching up with the repeats, unless he's at a street party which out new PM seems to be suggesting we will all be doing ?

 

[simon field]

And @simon field will be able to spend the day (this time around) catching up with the repeats, unless he's at a street party which out new PM seems to be suggesting we will all be doing ?

Oh how thrilling. I can’t wait ?

It’s a great indication of the conservatives sense of priority. Recession? Stop production for a day so we can welcome the new king and all he represents - the needless flying about between holiday homes, etc etc….

 

[Talay]

I thought he'd done the right thing having his coronation on a Saturday to avoid this Bank Holiday nonsense, though in truth, it will hit High Street trade anyway if on a Saturday but then to screw up the Saturday and have a totally uncalled for Bank Holiday, sorry, it is too much.

I told staff we would not be covering their additional Bank Holidays and we won't cover this one.

 

[WaveJumper]

Have to say thats what I thought the plan was, probably would have been more sensible to move one of the other BH if they felt it was really required, I know its history in the making but anyone wanting to party has the whole week end to do it.

 

[HFE Signs]

We’ve always paid 21 days plus bank holidays, so yes, I share the frustration and added cost but equally I feel the celebrations are important and if we were open we’d be quiet anyway, just have to take it on the chin and crack on