A Self-Less Economy

mindatrisk

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Aug 8, 2007
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I'm developing some ideas about different economic models that humanity could adopt... totally at the start of this, but I thought i'd share them here with minds that understand this better than I do, to see what your thoughts are. Thanks.

.......

A Self-Less Economy

The basis of the economy is the self-less attitude, i.e. a mindset that thinks of others before self. The self-less mind cares about the happiness and well-being of others, and has no concerns or interest in what it gets back.

So, the farmer - who farms because that is his passion - grows food for a community of 1000 people. Because he has a self-less attitude he provides the food that he grows for free. The people who receive the food also have self-less attitudes, and so they think about the farmer, and they ask him if there is anything that he needs or needs help with - not in exchange for the food, because even if he could not provide food at one point they would still ask, but because they have self-less minds. Anything that the farmer needs or needs help with is provided for him from whoever has what is needed or whoever can provide the help.

This same model applies for each member of the population. Each individuals primary work is the development and sharing of their own interests, passions, skills and talents. If there is a gap missing in the community, i.e. if someones passion is not waste collection and disposal, then the gap is filled voluntarily through each individuals community service. Community service is a joyful role because it is helping the community that provides a system that allows and supports them to live a fulfilling, meaningful life exploring and developing interests and talents.

Whilst a selfish mind assures us of at least one person looking out for us and helping us (us), the self-less mind encourages many others to look out for us and help us, and just as we help others and support them, they too help and support us. This is already how we operate now. We are familiar with this.

Communities might form around certain ideas or functions. For example, those interested in computer development might live in a certain community together. There is no competition. Because everyone has a self-less mind they only wish to see success for each other as well as technologies that are going to help other human beings. If a certain technology is recognised as beneficial to humanity then all the resources needed to produce it will be provided by other communities, again without charge. The products will then be manufactured and delivered to all who want one.

If a community was lacking a certain skill, for example, a doctor, then a doctor from another community would selflessly choose to move their.

If someone wanted something then it would be located on the internet, ordered and then sent to them freely. But people would not want things for their own benefit or to accumulate wealth - in fact, because everyone can have anything they want, their is no concept of material wealth, there is no value in accumulating material resources, and it wouldn’t be seen as desirable in and of itself, since happiness and fulfilment is recognised and experienced as something else. The motivation for acquiring material resources would be simple: ‘it would help me to help others if I had this’.

It should also be considered that because each individuals primary education is in the development of their passions, skills and talents, most people would be what we currently consider to be geniuses. As such, humanity would have access to incredible technologies that would massively enhance our lives, that again would be shared freely for the benefit of all. There would be technologies available that cannot be discussed now because they are beyond current comprehension, as such, as positive as the outline is above, it would likely be much better in reality.

Trust would prevail. If a technology community requested resources it would be done without any hint of suspicion. It would be a given that the technology had been properly researched and developed and was of benefit to humanity because the minds developing the technology would be self-less, and only concerned for the benefit of others.

Humans would be naturally productive for two reasons 1. because they are doing what they love and 2. because they want others to be happy and well and so they want to contribute all that they can. As everyone would recognise this shared mindset everyone would be self managed. No-one would need motivating, and if people needed rest then they would take it without question. No-one would think to take advantage of others or the systems in place.

How would we reach this stage?

First we must understand the possibilities of such a self-less attitude and how it would manifest into communities. Then we must practice developing a self-less mind.

How do we accommodate selfish people?

Some people might not want to become self-less. An education system should be able to nurture a self-less mind in most children. Until then, those who wish to be selfish will be free to do so. We will attempt to convert them with our example, by letting them see how our communities work so well and how happy and fulfilling our lives are as self-less individuals. If they wish to continue to be selfish then, so long as they are not harmful to the community, they will be accommodated, and interaction with them will allow us to continue to develop our self-less attitude. If they are damaging to the community and will not change then they will be asked to leave the community. Other communities will then welcome them and provide them with a new opportunity to become self-less. This cycle will continue until the individual converts to a self-less path. Each community will welcome the opportunity to accommodate them and demonstrate true selflessness. Each successful conversion will be shared with other communities so as to gain a better understanding of how a selfish mind can be accommodated and converted. Those who are converted will be encouraged to travel and share their conversion so as to inspire others.

Won’t I be taken advantage of?

Only a selfish mind can perceive itself as being taken advantage of. A self-less mind wants to help, it wants to be of service, it wants what it has to give to be used - it wants to be taken advantage of. However, there comes a point - a point only we can discern - where our helping another only enables them, disempowers them, makes them dependent. A selfless mind will recognise that our help no longer helps but hinders, and at that point it will say no.
 
We got rather a long way to go before your ideas could be put into action.

Humans are still 96% animal rising to 200% in some sub species.;)
 
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We got rather a long way to go before your ideas could be put into action.

Humans are still 96% animal rising to 200% in some sub species.;)

We progress through sharing such ideas. I'll drag you all into humanity even if it kills me. :)
 
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Idyllic, but these communities do not sound like they are human. Unless maybe we discover precisely what makes human beings so selfish. I guess we will have to remain selfish, ignorant and destructive.

You mention nurture to become selfless, I think it's more nature, human emotions are what I think make us selfish.
 
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Idyllic, but these communities do not sound like they are human. Unless maybe we discover precisely what makes human beings so selfish. I guess we will have to remain selfish, ignorant and destructive.

You mention nurture to become selfless, I think it's more nature, human emotions are what I think make us selfish.

I think that a part of selfishness is rooted in fear of scarcity. So, if it could be shown that by working together we can all have our needs met without struggle then i'm sure most would agree to this.

I'm Buddhist, so I know that there is a system that can train the mind and the heart to become more caring and thoughtful of others. That would be hard in adults, but with an education system teaching children to be self-less then us dinosaurs would soon die out and their normal, natural attitude would take over.
 
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Basically because utopia is not a natural state.

The mind has evolved over millions of years and does not cope well with situations which are so far outside the normal experience. We (humans and animals) need certain things that a world where everything is provided and everyone can do anything simply don't provide.
 
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Basically because utopia is not a natural state.

The mind has evolved over millions of years and does not cope well with situations which are so far outside the normal experience. We (humans and animals) need certain things that a world where everything is provided and everyone can do anything simply don't provide.

ER computers ,automation and as for not being able to cope with different situations going from 4 mph to 27,000mph + in a couple of hundred years may just disprove that one.:)
 
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And what % of the population has gone from "4 mph to 27,000mph +"?

The only people going that fast are astronauts, a very small carefully selected, psychologically tested and trained group, who tend to experience a range of problems, before, during and after travel. So yes, a great example of the brain not coping well with very different situations. Thanks

Have a PC, and living in a "utopia" are completely different things, not sure why you're trying to compare them.
 
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I think that a part of selfishness is rooted in fear of scarcity. So, if it could be shown that by working together we can all have our needs met without struggle then i'm sure most would agree to this.

I'm Buddhist, so I know that there is a system that can train the mind and the heart to become more caring and thoughtful of others. That would be hard in adults, but with an education system teaching children to be self-less then us dinosaurs would soon die out and their normal, natural attitude would take over.

Your ideal is basically communism in its purest form. All work for the greater good etc. The problem is we are innately greedy. Things like a person who trains for 7 years to be a doctor should get the same (i.e. whatever they need, help etc) as an untrained person doing data entry or refuse collection. Whereas the doctor may think, I have worked hard for 7 years and became a specialist and would like a better house, car *insert materialistic item here* than the guy who cleans chewing gum off the floor etc.

Unless the whole world adopts it the majority of highly skilled people will move to another country, where their skills are rewarded highly and they have a better standard of living.

As someone stated, our natural greed, self preservation/protection will mean that this ideal will only work if the whole world adopts it or in very small communities who have the same ideals. These people will most likely have to do without power etc as there will not be enough of them to operate/build a power plant, or subsidize their community by selling items to the capitalist world so they can purchase things like power, or solar panels or oil/fuel, which then goes against your 'self-less economy'.
 
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"کەرە مەتۆپە بەهار نزيکە"=Jack-Ass don't die from starvation, spring is approaching. That was a Kurdish proverb as an answer to idealists and idealism. An idealist doesn't understand nature or human nature. But after he discovers the real natural world, he joins the rat race and feels sorry for not joining earlier.
 
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It sounds wonderful but it's a shame that it flies in the face of basic human instinct.

Human beings are still animals. We're survival machines, and the trait of basic survival is hard-wired into us. Unfortunately, that often means competition over resources such as food. It's why every animal on earth (the purest creatures with their most innate instincts and no outside influence) often fight, injure and even kill their own kind for the pursuit of food and resources to increase survivability. Humans do this too, except not only through physical contact but also through non-tangible means (such as competition in business).

The way the current system works actually feeds these innate urges reasonably well. Those who work the hardest (and the most intelligently) are rewarded the most. Once you start playing around with this equation, you run the risk of people feeling undervalued or incorrectly rewarded. Why would someone be happy to put so much work in when there are others who are getting the same (if not more) help whilst doing absolutely nothing in return? It creates resentment and causes a domino effect which collapses the entire community.

The problem is that you assume that everyone does (or even can) share the same viewpoint as you. Unfortunately, such people are in the minority as it does simply work against the way humans are constructed.

You also have far too much of a basic view of emotions and how life would work. You state "If a community was lacking a certain skill, for example, a doctor, then a doctor from another community would selflessly choose to move their.". Why would they do that? Why would they have such a self-less urge that they're willing to disrupt their life, disrupt their family and move away from friends to start a new life where there's no guarantee that anyone will return the same sort of effort towards them? Are they supposed to go through all of this stress and disruption just to obtain that warm fuzzy feeling of helping others? It ain't going to happen.

And then your solution of dealing with selfish people is to simply insert them back into the same routine and hope that sheer persistence causes them to suddenly change their hard-wired mindset? Really? What if they don't? How will the others react if they're putting so much work into this concept whilst others are getting a free ride?

Let me ask you this. With your self-less attitude, would you be happy to basically work for a community of 20 people and do everything they ask whilst they do nothing in return for you and you get nothing in return? Would your idea of selflessness help you to be happy without any concern and work like this for many decades?

If you would have any issue with this whatsoever, then I'm afraid you also share the same innate issues which the vast majority of humans do. Making this work on the expectation that others will do things for you in return isn't selfless. It's just a supply and demand economy of skills instead of money. Nothing changes.

Basically, this has absolutely no chance of ever working.
 
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And, contrary to all that, and a boon to our OP, is this study which shows that we are less likely to inflict pain on others than on ourselves. Aren't we nice?
Although another study did find that people who try and be nice all the time are more likely to harm others than grumpy, contrarian types, who will refuse to harm others in a grumpy, moral way.
Which leads to both (for instance) nice Mindatrisk and (for instance) me, not wanting to harm people but he is more likely to do so.
Time for a rethink OP? :)
 
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