J
JustOneUK
- Original Poster
- #42
No offence Steve but that is the lamest, most recurring argument in SEO threads. You are assuming that I would WANT to be listed for a top SEO phrase.
SEO is not my full time vocation, I don't really want to do it 40 hours a week, every week. I can't be bothered to build a website about SEO and/or get it to the top of the SERPs. I have enough sites of my own as it is and have hit page 1 for every term that I have actually TRIED
There are also a few SEOs here but I have never seen their sites discussed in SEO circles or seen them in the SERPs... If I search "UK SEO experts", I don't see anything familiar so it would hardly matter if I ranked well or not for SEO.
I don't think I provide any less than someone who charges £25/hour. Sure I'd also like to quote someone £20K and just get on with it, but frankly I am too busy with other things to provide THAT kind of commitment.... and besides I'm guessing it would be hard to secure 20K without a portfolio of clients and achievements on display. I thought £12 sounds about right for someone who doesn't wish to display a portfolio of their work?
My point being that the price is attractive enough for what I CAN actually prove.
Upvote
0
R
RayB
- Original Poster
- #43
I don't like to see people sell themselves short - especially not Forum members.
My advice would be: if you don't "provide any less than someone who charges £25/hour" - then charge £25 per hour as well
What is the logic in being less than half the price...............
Upvote
0
The price a business charges is dictated by many factors including overheads etc. These are fixed costs that cannot be ignored for a bona fide business to function and last.
Bona fide businesses can never compete on price with people who offer the same service as a hobby - and I don't use the word hobby in a derogatory way, I mean as a 'sideline' activity. Hobbyists in many lines of expertise offer services equal in quality to a person offering the service on a business basis, that's a fact of life.
When a business hires a hobbyist they make savings but often with these savings they make sacrifices. For example, say a person has a full time job and builds websites - great websites - as a sideline, they are often hard to get hold of during business hours. We have clients whose 'web person' simply disappeared or got bored.
Where things get fractious is when a hobbyist proclaims that a company is being ripped off because the company is charging say £30 an hour, while they are offering the service for £10 an hour. In these situations the hobbyist is being naive and is demonstrating a lack of understanding about business.
By all means compare businesses when looking to hire but comparing a hobbyist with a business is plain daft.
By the way, none of the above is aimed at the OP, I'm making a generic observation.
d
Bona fide businesses can never compete on price with people who offer the same service as a hobby - and I don't use the word hobby in a derogatory way, I mean as a 'sideline' activity. Hobbyists in many lines of expertise offer services equal in quality to a person offering the service on a business basis, that's a fact of life.
When a business hires a hobbyist they make savings but often with these savings they make sacrifices. For example, say a person has a full time job and builds websites - great websites - as a sideline, they are often hard to get hold of during business hours. We have clients whose 'web person' simply disappeared or got bored.
Where things get fractious is when a hobbyist proclaims that a company is being ripped off because the company is charging say £30 an hour, while they are offering the service for £10 an hour. In these situations the hobbyist is being naive and is demonstrating a lack of understanding about business.
By all means compare businesses when looking to hire but comparing a hobbyist with a business is plain daft.
By the way, none of the above is aimed at the OP, I'm making a generic observation.
d
Upvote
0
J
JustOneUK
- Original Poster
- #48
Basically it was because I have been contacted by 3 pretty decent websites lately and as soon as I say it's £12/hour I have lost them. As I don't really promote my SEO services it seems odd that they would contact me if they didn't think I could do the job, but maybe the price does just that?
I have considered starting a portfolio but don't really believe in them, you have to make sure that everything you do remains up to date as "ongoing evidence" and I hate that when I see it on other sites. They say "we got this site to #1 for the term "blah-blah" and when you check ..it's not there, or the site is completely different than the one shown etc etc...
Maybe some kind of portfolio is the answer although it would have to start from scratch with only new clients on it.
Upvote
0
Actually, I'm assuming that, if you could, you'd rather charge more than £12 per hour for the SEO you're doing.
Is that not true?
If you were on p1 for a top SEO phrase, then it would be easy to charge a normal/high SEO rate.
I don't see the logic in this.
Let's assume you'll SEO 12 sites in the next 12 months and you'll do it for £12 per hour.
Now, compare that to SEOing 1 site for an SEO term and then SEOing 11 client sites for £25 an hour.
Which one offers the greater return on your time?
So, this "I can't be bothered" stuff doesn't add up to me.
It would give you perceived value in the eyes of your prospects. And that means they'd be willing to pay more for your services.
(plus it would give you more prospects to choose from)
I understood that.
Doesn't that mean you've got 2 choices:
(1) keep working for the low rate
(2) create some proof and charge a higher rate
If so, which of those paths is likely to make you the most money long term?
But Stelios isn't exchanging his time for an hourly rate, so I don't think this analogy works.
Steve
Upvote
0
i've found this can happen where people are used to paying much more for a service then you offer and automatically presume there is something wrong!
I quoted a member on here a very small price for some SEO and he/she was very sceptical and didn't take up my offer. Consequently I am working with another forum member to promote their business and so far it's producing results....I offered the service for free as it's an experiment for a process I am trying to automate and so far so good!
So I guess you shouldn't always assume coz it's inexpensive then it's no good
Upvote
0
R
RayB
- Original Poster
- #51
I think you have just answered your own question
Please Forum members - never sell yourselves short - there is no point to it - and can do you more harm than good.
You will also attract more "tyre kickers" if your prices are too low - those wanting something for nothing
Upvote
0
No offence Steve but that is the lamest, most recurring argument in SEO threads. You are assuming that I would WANT to be listed for a top SEO phrase.
SEO is not my full time vocation, I don't really want to do it 40 hours a week, every week. I can't be bothered to build a website about SEO and/or get it to the top of the SERPs. I have enough sites of my own as it is and have hit page 1 for every term that I have actually TRIED
There are also a few SEOs here but I have never seen their sites discussed in SEO circles or seen them in the SERPs... If I search "UK SEO experts", I don't see anything familiar so it would hardly matter if I ranked well or not for SEO.
I don't think I provide any less than someone who charges £25/hour. Sure I'd also like to quote someone £20K and just get on with it, but frankly I am too busy with other things to provide THAT kind of commitment.... and besides I'm guessing it would be hard to secure 20K without a portfolio of clients and achievements on display. I thought £12 sounds about right for someone who doesn't wish to display a portfolio of their work?
My point being that the price is attractive enough for what I CAN actually prove.
I think publishing your actual results ( if there good ) is your biggest selling point.
As I always say Google is the only judge I care about.
Earl
Upvote
0
If you're happy to do SEO work for £12 per hour, but clients are only happy to get SEO work for £40-£75 per hour, then just team up with a middle-man who will charge the client £40-75 per hour and pay you £12 per hour. That way everybody is happy - especially the middleman!
When I say middlemen, I mean web, graphic design, PR, marketing, SEO agencies. This already happens for graphic design, web design, web development outsourcing, so why shouldn't it happen for SEO too.
I'm not condoning this approach, merely describing a typical outsourcing business model - a practice that is often used in business whether clients are aware of it or not.
When I say middlemen, I mean web, graphic design, PR, marketing, SEO agencies. This already happens for graphic design, web design, web development outsourcing, so why shouldn't it happen for SEO too.
I'm not condoning this approach, merely describing a typical outsourcing business model - a practice that is often used in business whether clients are aware of it or not.
Upvote
0
I
INDIZINE
- Original Poster
- #63
OP, you say as soon as you mention its £12/hr you lose them. Do you tell them the price in person or in writing?
What Im saying is, have you absolutely ruled out it isnt anything else that could have put them off going with you?
You could print Google pages when your clients reach page 1, showing how far you got them. It would have the date of printing so you can't cheat as its google's date stamp. This can then be your 'portfolio' along with the customer's testimonial, signed, dated and affirming the Google positions.
What Im saying is, have you absolutely ruled out it isnt anything else that could have put them off going with you?
You could print Google pages when your clients reach page 1, showing how far you got them. It would have the date of printing so you can't cheat as its google's date stamp. This can then be your 'portfolio' along with the customer's testimonial, signed, dated and affirming the Google positions.
Upvote
0
I'd suggest a more meaningful way of offering clients some reassurance would be to ask existing clients if they will vouch for the SEO's work and advise if it's generating more business. Google results do not equal business results. I'm always wary of people who wear a SERP as a badge of honour unless it's a high value keyword with proven search volume.
All of course, IMHO.
d
Upvote
0
R
RayB
- Original Poster
- #65
We are drifting into how an SEO proves past results/portfolio to justify credentials/price.
No problem with that, it is relevant to the topic, but not entirely related to the OP question:
< is £12 per hour too cheap?>
To this question, I will always come back to:
1. If you can do the job properly - yes it is too cheap
2. If you are really good your rates will be MUCH higher than this (and most of your work will be word of mouth referral, and you will be in a position to turn a lot down)
3. Or - finally - if an SEO cannot do the job - then £12 is £12 too much
(VERY unlikely in this case)
No problem with that, it is relevant to the topic, but not entirely related to the OP question:
< is £12 per hour too cheap?>
To this question, I will always come back to:
1. If you can do the job properly - yes it is too cheap
2. If you are really good your rates will be MUCH higher than this (and most of your work will be word of mouth referral, and you will be in a position to turn a lot down)
3. Or - finally - if an SEO cannot do the job - then £12 is £12 too much
(VERY unlikely in this case)
Upvote
0
R
RayB
- Original Poster
- #67
I agree with this in respect that the job of an SEO is to deliver results measured in rankings for pre-agreed, researched, relevant "money" KW's
A really good SEO will decline the work if, despite knowing all that is "doable", there is something fundamentally wrong with the site/offering.
In other words - the best SEO's will know in advance if their fees WONT deliver a ROI to the client due to factors OUTSIDE their control.
But I guess we are drifting into ethics here
Upvote
0
We would never try to deliver traffic to a site we didn't believe could convert it, we see sorting/enhancing the site as part of the SEO work we do. To quote a recent free seo review I did;
and I was being diplomatic
d
Upvote
0
I think it is exactly the responsibility of a seo company to ensure that any website they work on and more importantly get paid to work on is generating results. A good seo should know when to turn away from a project and not take a penny for work that would be wasted.
Upvote
0
I
INDIZINE
- Original Poster
- #70
Yes but lets face it, most will take the work on and have a go, only a slim few will turn work away.
What guarantee do you have in place if results were not generated? ie do you give a refund or do more work for free? What if you are doing everything possible and correct and it still isnt generating a decent amount for ROI?
What guarantee do you have in place if results were not generated? ie do you give a refund or do more work for free? What if you are doing everything possible and correct and it still isnt generating a decent amount for ROI?
Upvote
0
R
RayB
- Original Poster
- #71
And therein lies the rub - many do not have the ethics in this industry - which (unfairly) - taints the industry. Rusty and RedEvo have both posted about good SEO ethics above
This is the million dollar question.
To me, any SEO who "guarantees" results is LYING - plain and simple - as there can be no guarantees given the nature of the beast
The "instinctive" SEO customer can "sniff out" a good SEO - and once found price is normally one of the the last things discussed
Upvote
0
I'm not suggesting for one minute an SEO is solely responsible for a business succeeding or failing, a businesses dynamics are much more than SEO. If we do our job properly we will get the 'right' eyeballs on the site and we will do our best to ensure there are no 'christ, where's the back button' moments.
But there's obviously more to it. Apologies if I didn't elucidate this in my previous posts.
d
But there's obviously more to it. Apologies if I didn't elucidate this in my previous posts.
d
Upvote
0
I do my own seo, and I'e achived good rankings with most of my sites. But like my main business I tend to underprice anything I do because, to be frank, I FIND IT EASY.
that's a big problem for all new business owners, we all think "I wouldn't pay that much for my services" as we know how to do it ourselves.
I agree with this undervaluing idea others have said, but then again I love a SALE!
that's a big problem for all new business owners, we all think "I wouldn't pay that much for my services" as we know how to do it ourselves.
I agree with this undervaluing idea others have said, but then again I love a SALE!
Upvote
0
J
JustOneUK
- Original Poster
- #75
WOW, this thread is just getting started... outsourcing/ethics/guarantees - you get value for money from this forum
outsourcing:: If anyone has some SEO they want to outsource to me for £12/hour.. feel free to PM me
ethics:: I don't take on any work that I don't believe in and I won't put people on page 1 for "property" if they have a website with one house!
guarantees:: All work comes with the guarantee that I will be awake when I do the work
Why LOL? Isn't that the going rate for a weeks work?... now I'm just confused. Was it not a weeks work? Let's not go about claiming to pay/charge £25/hour if that's not the case.
Pete.. what's your rate?
outsourcing:: If anyone has some SEO they want to outsource to me for £12/hour.. feel free to PM me
ethics:: I don't take on any work that I don't believe in and I won't put people on page 1 for "property" if they have a website with one house!
guarantees:: All work comes with the guarantee that I will be awake when I do the work
Why LOL? Isn't that the going rate for a weeks work?... now I'm just confused. Was it not a weeks work? Let's not go about claiming to pay/charge £25/hour if that's not the case.
Pete.. what's your rate?
Upvote
0
J
JustOneUK
- Original Poster
- #78
~teehee~..............
Salinv,
I'm too polite to ask what you paid actually, so forget I posted that.
It's really none of my business.
...but feel free to PM me the figure, LOL
Apparently the going rate is around the £25 - £70/hour mark (so the thread says)
Upvote
0
P
PI Guy
- Original Poster
- #80
If that is the going rate then I have to make double that per hour to pay for it.Salinv,
I'm too polite to ask what you paid actually, so forget I posted that.
It's really none of my business.
...but feel free to PM me the figure, LOL
Apparently the going rate is around the £25 - £70/hour mark (so the thread says)
Upvote
0
Latest Articles
-
Should you crowdfund? A framework for UK founders in 2026Three articles into a series on what crowdfunding actually costs, the...- Ozzy
- Updated:
-
The polls, the reframing, and the billion dollarsHow three letters from the early years of Star Citizen's development...
- Ozzy
- Updated:
-
The values trap: what the Punks actually ownedWhy BrewDog's Equity for Punks investors were structurally locked out...
- Ozzy
- Updated:
-
When belief is the business modelWhat BrewDog's collapse and Star Citizen's billion-dollar climb are...
- Ozzy
- Updated:
-
AI, Virtual Influencers and the Copyright Minefield: What Entrepreneurs Need to KnowI'll be upfront: this article was written with the assistance of an AI...
- Ozzy
- Updated:
