For sure it's tough but if anyone can crack it the Googleplex can. Of course, they only have to suspect it, they don't have to prove it. I'd say an algo that suggested that on the balance of probability a link was paid for would do it.
d
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I agree 110%.
Making a website search engine friendly is only the first part of the SEO process - link development is the all important second.
It's tempting to go into a couple of points by detail, but it may be better to instead state that link development is in no way just about buying links, and is no way intended to be deceitful.
It's also important to underline that Google has always been a links driven search engine, using the link structure of the web to determine relevance.
It's also worth stating that good link development takes a lot of skill and expertise - it's all about trying to emulate a natural link profile. It is not about buying PageRank.
I have never had a client banned on Google, but I have been repeatedly approached by companies who suffered a ban because they thought they could link build themselves, and fell into simple traps.
The bottom line? Link development as part of a SEO campaign can be the most powerful way of delivering commercial traffic, and done right, never invite the wrath of Google.
2c.
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Link developement however done is another manipulation of the search engine.
A link should only be posted to a site after that site has had a review by the site linking .
So your honour I would maintain that nearly all link building is deceitful.
As for the wrath of google R2 D2 don't know what it is .
Earl
A link should only be posted to a site after that site has had a review by the site linking .
So your honour I would maintain that nearly all link building is deceitful.
As for the wrath of google R2 D2 don't know what it is .
Earl
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The bottom line? Link development as part of a SEO campaign can be the most powerful way of delivering commercial traffic, and done right, never invite the wrath of Google.
2c.
An interesting post. There is consensus amongst most SEO's that having genuine links to a site is good.
It's also good practice in my opinion to buy links in directories etc.
Also, Google is never going to punish sites directly for having paid links as that would be wide open to abuse by a company's competitors.
The argument against against paid links refers to buying context sensitive links that appear as genuine endorsements and indeed pass link juice. I have an issue with these as indeed does Google.
But that said, I also concede I'm being idealistic
d
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If you have a brand new site, you have no link profile - and even an established website may have a natural link profile, but not in a targeted manner.
For example, the major UK insurance companies have a ton of links and very powerful natural link profiles.
BUT these links are usually not done on a keyword basis.
It is precisely for this reason that *every* major insurance company in the UK is now investing in big link development programs, which focus on developing links *for commercial keywords* which point to *the most appropriate page*.
Every top listing for "car insurance" on Google is now due to paid for link development work.
All SEO is manipulation of search engines.
Every time you write a page title to reflect specific keywords, you are manipulating search engines by telling them which keywords you want associated with that page.
More realistically, SEO - whether on-page or via links - is not deceitful so long as it remains on-topic and relevant, and delivers a positive user experience.
After all, wherre's the point in SEO that delivers untargeted traffic?
Indeed - otherwise as above, Google would have to delist every major UK insurance company, plus a string of high street banks and building societies.
What Google tries to do instead is algorithmically devalue different types of link formats to minimise the impact of paid-for link development. But so long as Google relies on links, they cannot remove the influence - especially as good link development programs will use a range of strategies to protect against devaluation.
Indeed, but it's rampant off-line as well.
I was speaking to Neil Gaiman last year - he mentioned walking into a bookshop to see his latest book listed in the Top 10 bestsellers. He told his publisher he was chuffed with this - until the publisher told him that ranking was paid for.
Paid for editorial recommendations are a natural part of business, online and offline. It may seem unfair and manipulative to some people, but the nature of business is often to survive strong competition by beating their competition.
I doubt many people who run strong and successful marketing campaigns - of any variety - will be complaining about the significant improvements to sales because of this.
2c.
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Well I play in a swing band in my spare time (amongst far too many other things) and when you take practice time, travel time etc into consideration the hourly rate is PP. However, wild horses wouldn't drag me away from it
Maybe SEO is his swing band
d
Maybe SEO is his swing band
d
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Well I play in a swing band in my spare time (amongst far too many other things) and when you take practice time, travel time etc into consideration the hourly rate is PP. However, wild horses wouldn't drag me away from it
Maybe SEO is his swing band
d
Great stuff David you old smooth lounge lizard.
My limited ability to twang away on a guitar has always ranked as one of my greatest achievements as well as one of the most difficult.
4 big stars for that one David
Earl
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There's 2 guitars on the recordings that's what I was getting at , unless your guitar player has 4 arms
No, there's only one guitar........played twice
d
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C
creospace
- Original Poster
- #146
Quote:
Originally Posted by creospace
There's 2 guitars on the recordings that's what I was getting at , unless your guitar player has 4 arms
No, there's only one guitar........played twice
And when you're playing live? That would be quite impressive (which was my point as i know recording you can do what you like)
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I stand by the right of anyone to charge whatever rate they think they should/want.
However, many small business owners do not charge a rate that is high enough to let them employ others to do the work and hence stay in a cycle of working in the business instead of on the business.
This may be the ambition of owners and that is fine but if you want to build a business that has value, it has to get to the stage where the owner employees others to do the work and he develops the business.
As far as SEO rates go the mass of buyers are still not yet educated enough about SEO so sellers can charge from £3ph ( india , Romania etc)
to very high rates Bigmouthmedia etc
Therefore it is all about where you want to position your SEO company and what market share you think you can get.
SEO can be learned and has an open point of entry unlike say a chartered engineer, therefore, although in huge demand their will always be people prepared to charge massively different rates and by no means does the higher rate mean higher service
However, many small business owners do not charge a rate that is high enough to let them employ others to do the work and hence stay in a cycle of working in the business instead of on the business.
This may be the ambition of owners and that is fine but if you want to build a business that has value, it has to get to the stage where the owner employees others to do the work and he develops the business.
As far as SEO rates go the mass of buyers are still not yet educated enough about SEO so sellers can charge from £3ph ( india , Romania etc)
to very high rates Bigmouthmedia etc
Therefore it is all about where you want to position your SEO company and what market share you think you can get.
SEO can be learned and has an open point of entry unlike say a chartered engineer, therefore, although in huge demand their will always be people prepared to charge massively different rates and by no means does the higher rate mean higher service
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And when you're playing live? That would be quite impressive (which was my point as i know recording you can do what you like)
Yes, our guitarist has four arms. You should listen to Martin Taylor and hear just what one guitarist can sound like alone
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Agree but in general you will find the SEO's with a proven track record across a broad range of industries ,will be at the top end of the scale.
And can afford to be very picky about what prodjects they work on,you also won't find them advertizing on the internet in general.
Earl
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This is a top notch comment - when establishing yourself in a business, affordability for new clients can be a key concern for acquisition and expansion - but at some point it's worth realising your USP and just how valuable that is - and charge at a higher rate to reflect that expertise.
Funnily enough, this is something I've only realised relatively recently, and need to change accordingly.
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This is a strange place, I have people agreeing with me ! Not often that happens. The other very easy and totally understandable issue that small business owners have is that they think they are the business and nothing can get done correct without them.
Often this is the case and all business needs that drive and passion of the owner to make it work, but I see it time and time again that passion is way too focused in the business rather than on the business.
Many are thinking the big pay off will come later in the business life when they make a pile of money. Unfortunatley if you study the numbers this does not happen to the vast majority. They just stay working very very hard in their business just getting by.
Company owners should aim to get their business to a stage where the are just over seeing directors. Basically you should be able to take a few months off each year and the business keeps on going without you.
It is extremly valuable to demonstate the above when it comes to selling up. Never mind given you time to work on other projects or go travelling etc.
Often this is the case and all business needs that drive and passion of the owner to make it work, but I see it time and time again that passion is way too focused in the business rather than on the business.
Many are thinking the big pay off will come later in the business life when they make a pile of money. Unfortunatley if you study the numbers this does not happen to the vast majority. They just stay working very very hard in their business just getting by.
Company owners should aim to get their business to a stage where the are just over seeing directors. Basically you should be able to take a few months off each year and the business keeps on going without you.
It is extremly valuable to demonstate the above when it comes to selling up. Never mind given you time to work on other projects or go travelling etc.
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R
RayB
- Original Poster
- #155
Spot on again - interestingly, I have not been to the office for a month now - not because I am having time off - but due to working on some new avenues for the business.
I am able to do this as I have built a management team and business that runs day to day without me.
This happened by design...
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Another valuable post with great advice. We are moving (slowly) towards engineering me out of the nuts and bolts of the business and have some preliminary talks with potential investors in the near future with this in mind. I think one challenge faced by businesses like us is the people we need to replace me for example are not cheap.
d
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I think that is maybe an excuse,and a belief that you are indespensible to the business allied to a problem with delegation.
Drummers are dirt cheap
Earl
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I think that is maybe an excuse,and a belief that you are indespensible to the business allied to a problem with delegation.
Drummers are dirt cheap
In all honesty it's not that. I've already delegated all programming - something I really enjoy and one of the reasons I started the business, I'm delegating more SEO work - something else I enjoy, I've brought in a bean counter, we employ a designer and we employ an admin person.
The person I really need would be a real web all rounder with passion and deep knowledge, these people are thin on the ground and costly.
d
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What do you call a person who hangs around with musicians?
A drummer
what's the difference between a drummer and a drum machine?
You only have to punch it in once to a drum machine
It's great to give old jokes an airing from time to time, thanks
d
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