Business Meeting - meal

[stphnstevey]

If my wife and I (both directors of Ltd) decided to hold a meeting to discuss our business at a local restuarant and had a meal there, could the meal be classed as a business expense?

Could we do this about every 2 months or so?

I suppose detailed notes of the meeting would help?

Thanks

 

[Alison Jones]

I would say that if it is you and wife having a meal every two months and saying it was a business meal this would be very hard to proove that it is really a business expense and not a personal expense as do you really need to have a meal when you have a meeting and do you really have to have meeting in a restaurant rather then business or home office premises.

It would be nice if businesses could get away with this as I run Limited Company with my husband being other Director and would be great to get a meal out as a business expense.

I will be interested in reading other peoples answers just in case I am mistaken, if that is the case I will be booking a nice restaurant next week.

Alison

 

[David Griffiths]

No

Nothing to add really

 

[stphnstevey]

What about business lunches where food is provided

 

If my wife and I (both directors of Ltd) decided to hold a meeting to discuss our business at a local restuarant and had a meal there, could the meal be classed as a business expense?

Could we do this about every 2 months or so?

I suppose detailed notes of the meeting would help?

Thanks

I suspect you may need to invite me to get away with that one.

I warn you though I am a very fussy eater.

Earl

 

[Jarlands]

You can record it as a business expense but you will not be able to claim tax relief against the cost of it.
The same goes for client entertaining, entertaining/feeding shareholders, providing food at the AGM.
If you're VAT registered, you can't reclaim the VAT for these expenses either.

 

[tony84]

Could it not be classed as a reward for a member of staff meeting their targets and written off that way? Just set yourself easily obtainable targets

 

[Ian J]

Could it not be classed as a reward for a member of staff meeting their targets and written off that way? Just set yourself easily obtainable targets

Is it really worth risking the wrath of HMRC just to fiddle a few quid ?

 

[tony84]

depends on your outlook - i think my wage is fiddled every month and has been since the day i started working (but i think thats leading into polititics).
I dont condone breaking the law or ripping off the VAT man - the number one rule is the VAT man always gets paid first. But if anything can be written off to get the VAT back then it will be. This is where a good accountant comes in. Im a firm believer that a good accountant pays for him/her self.

 

[MrPAYE]

To clarify:

The position for entertaining costs is:

Staff entertaining - taxable benefit for the directors/employees, but fully deductable for company tax and you can also claim back VAT.

Business entertaining (where you are entertaining third party guests) - no tax for the directors/employees but also no tax relief for the business and no VAT can be reclaimed.

The situation you have described would be staff entertaining.

 

[Maslins]

Staff entertaining - taxable benefit for the directors/employees, but fully deductable for company tax and you can also claim back VAT.

First £150/head/year isn't taxable on the employee (but is still tax deductible for the company).

I still agree entirely with David Griffiths though, husband and wife going out for dinner regularly is under no circumstances a business expense.

Sure, search hard enough you'll find an accountant who'll "let you put it through"...but that doesn't make it right.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Sure, search hard enough you'll find an accountant who'll "let you put it through"...but that doesn't make it right.

At the end of the day the clients incurs the penalties, fines, interest (and worse for tax evasion).

We didn't make the rules but we do have to abide by them to protect our clients from investigations etc.

 

[Alison Jones]

With the £150 head per year entertaining am I right in thinking that this is fine if you have staff members and to include Managing Directors for say a Christmas meal/party, but if it is Managing Directors only who are husband and wife it is best not doing this until company has staff because it is hard to proove that it really is a business expense and not a husband and wife personal expense going out for a meal.

Thanks

Alison

 

[Maslins]

With the £150 head per year entertaining am I right in thinking that this is fine if you have staff members and to include Managing Directors for say a Christmas meal/party, but if it is Managing Directors only who are husband and wife it is best not doing this until company has staff because it is hard to proove that it really is a business expense and not a husband and wife personal expense going out for a meal.

I would agree with that.

Also bear in mind £150/head/year would not cover too many romantic meals for two (unless both people present are accountants in which case of course tap water will be ordered to go alongside a BOGOF deal from Prezzo )

 

[Jarlands]

I'd be more concerned that the HMRC would simply view such get-togethers as "board meetings".

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

I'd be more concerned that the HMRC would simply view such get-togethers as "board meetings".

HMRC are not daft! And they watch on here too you know.

 

[Alison Jones]

Hopefully we will get staff sometime then so I get Christmas Celebration meal or party, last time I worked for someone else and got Christmas meal paid for was over 4 years ago.

Saying that it might not be a great meal if the staff member is on the IT/Gaming side of our business because they will spend all night talking about computers and computer games.

Alison

 

[MrPAYE]

First £150/head/year isn't taxable on the employee (but is still tax deductible for the company).

I still agree entirely with David Griffiths though, husband and wife going out for dinner regularly is under no circumstances a business expense.

Sure, search hard enough you'll find an accountant who'll "let you put it through"...but that doesn't make it right.

I think this needs to be qualifed to avoid everyone going out for £150 meals

The £150 only refers to annual events, i.e something like a xmas party, sumer bbq, etc that happens once a year, every year.

Whilst technically this exemption can often apply to directors (as long as all directors & employees of the company have been invited to the annual event) where it is a husband and wife company with no other employees, HMRC may refuse the £150 exemption on the basis that it is outside the spirit of the legislation.