Or look at the countries that these asylum seekers are coming from and try and make those countries more attractive to stay in, so they don't leave in the first place?
Better for everybody?
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Asylum Seekers to Rwanda - A Deterrent?
- Thread starter MOIC
- Start date
Or look at the countries that these asylum seekers are coming from and try and make those countries more attractive to stay in, so they don't leave in the first place?
Better for everybody?
That’s an option, and I certainly don't see why any countries wouldn't be willing to be part of it, as it's already policy of the UN/all UN Members - as in, they're already part of a broader commitment. Although as others have suggested, it has its flaws.
But if there’s a way found around the flaws, perhaps we can convince the other 192 members of the United Nations that a document adopted in 1948 should be amended.
We may well find that the rest of the world questions why it’s such an issue that this document, that’s worked well up to now, needs to be changed, particularly as UK is not particularly overwhelmed with asylum-seekers comparable to other countries*.
Or the rest of the world may question whether it’s even worth trying to negotiate a new Universal Declaration of Human Rights with the UK, or ask if we’re even honest brokers - will honour any agreement - given our recent track record.
Or the rest of the world may just question whether this is being proposed for the genuine interests of human rights, or just UK domestic politics.
But it’s an option, and perhaps the gov’t will consider it. Or perhaps they’ll just complain about Global Britain being expected to comply with any international laws & agreements, and try to ignore our obligations.
Karl Limpert
* UNHCR’s Refugee Population Statistics Database
House of Commons Library, Asylum stats, March 2022
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I have no idea, I didn't count them - didn't see a relevance to it, and I have no historical knowledge of it being mentioned as a criteria or matter of relevance when the UN did draft its Declaration of Human Rights in 1948.
Why would it matter?
Karl Limpert
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- Original Poster
- #205
Why wouldn't it?
You're including figures where border to border crossing is easy. Crossing the seas to get to a destination should be discouraged, as the deaths prove when asylum seekers try to get to Italy, Greece, UK as well as I'm sure other countries. That's the reason where asylum seekers should seek asylum within their continent.
The UK, as an island, takes in the largest number of refugees, much higher than any other island, including Australia!
Refugees by Country 2026
Discover population, economy, health, and more with the most comprehensive global statistics at your fingertips.
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Including cyprus ?Why wouldn't it?
You're including figures where border to border crossing is easy. Crossing the seas to get to a destination should be discouraged, as the deaths prove when asylum seekers try to get to Italy, Greece, UK as well as I'm sure other countries. That's the reason where asylum seekers should seek asylum within their continent.
The UK, as an island, takes in the largest number of refugees, much higher than any other island, including Australia!
Refugees by Country 2026
Discover population, economy, health, and more with the most comprehensive global statistics at your fingertips.worldpopulationreview.com
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I don't know, but perhaps other countries don't make it so difficult to claim asylum, that the only route available for many to make a claim in the UK is to risk a sea crossing.Why wouldn't it?
You're including figures where border to border crossing is easy. Crossing the seas to get to a destination should be discouraged, as the deaths prove when asylum seekers try to get to Italy, Greece, UK as well as I'm sure other countries. That's the reason where asylum seekers should seek asylum within their continent.
The UK, as an island, takes in the largest number of refugees, much higher than any other island, including Australia!
Refugees by Country 2026
Discover population, economy, health, and more with the most comprehensive global statistics at your fingertips.
As Sky's Sophy Ridge recently put to Tom Pursglove (Home Office Minister), "it’s basically impossible to claim asylum legally then, isn’t it?"
Rather than make it so difficult for genuine asylum seekers to make a claim here, rather than stand-by and watch them risk their lives, why don't we do the humane thing and offer easier ways for them to make a claim - such as (as proposed above), allowing them to make a claim from France (or elsewhere in the world)? Expecting the whole world to change its policies because we can't be flexible or humane seems a big ask.
Karl Limpert
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I don't think it's immigration lawyers that you'd have to win over. It's 192 other members of the United Nations that will decide, with the UK, whether the policy should change, and personally I don't think we have a particularly strong argument to support such an ask.
Karl Limpert
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I don't think the number is that big, but it is over 100,000 and that does once again demonstrate one of the big problems we have with these asylum seekers: the Home Office taking so long to deal with an application, that the number of open applications is more than the annual number received!
If they only dealt with them quicker, the genuine ones could be given refugee status (they would then be contributing to society, through work & taxes, rather than being a burden on the taxpayer, banned from working), and the failed applicants returned to their country of origin.
Karl Limpert
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But then who would the government and the Daily Express be able to blame for all the problems this country faces?
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The trouble is not all continents are islands - Turkey (in fact the city of Istanbul itself) is in 2 continents.
And i just realised you are talking absolute numbers not per head with regard to refugees and islands as
UK 223.5 harboured + 83.5 seeking = 307k pop 67million so 1 per 218 people
Cyprus 41.1k + 21.9k = 63k pop 1.2million so 1 per 19 people
Malta 12.3k + 3k = 15.3k pop 525k so 1 per 39 people
Australia 143.8k + 79.8k = 223.6k pop 25.7m so 1 per 115
Numbers from your link plus google for populations
And strictly speaking we are not an island unless you can somehow give figures discounting NI especially with the CTA
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- Original Poster
- #216
We're an island with the most refugees, what more do you want?
The issue is not with the legitimate asylum seekers, but they way they get to the UK, via the people smugglers. The smugglers are into crime, these criminals have terrorist links. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out the probabilities.
Just yesterday 12 people were seen to leave a boat and run to 2 SUV. with blacked out windows that were waiting for them. These 12 were noticed. How many do you think don't get noticed?
People smugglers are the scourge of the earth. Stop them and you stop the problem.
The problem is that the French are keen to get as many migrants/asylum seekers leaving France and
'escort' them to the UK.
Please don't use the old chestnut that they speak English. They can find refuge on their continent who use their mother tongue and have a similar culture.
There are enough terrorist cells in the UK as it is, allowing the smugglers to bring more in is simply a case of . . . 'be careful what you wish for'.
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Strictly in jest I can do a few more
C Chinese
D Darkies (or Deutschland)
E Ethipians or Europe
F Foreigners (or France)
G Ghanians
H
I India
J Judges
K Koreans
L Lawyers (or Lefty Lawyers)
M Muslims (or Migrants)
N Nigerians (or Nanny State)
O
P
Q
R Russians or Roma Gypsies
S
T
U
V
W Weather
X
Z
How many UK terrorist attacks have been by people who arrived via people smugglers ?
We have given a way to stop the smugglers, the French agree with that way (a processing centre in France) it would stop the smugglers business model dead whilst also costing us less BUT the UK govt won't do it
Why do you think they won't ?
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- Original Poster
- #218
It's amazing how you use statistics to suit your argument.
Turkey is not a continent last time I looked. They border Syria, so natural that Syrians will go there as well as Jordan & Lebanon. Why do you think this is an issue?
"UK 223.5 harboured + 83.5 seeking = 307k . . ." - Yet, only 37 were supposed to be on the plane and it was as if WW3 had broken out!
"And strictly speaking we are not an island . . ." - Give it a break!
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- Original Poster
- #219
As far as I'm aware the last few terrorists arrived here as asylum seekers. Why let the doors open wider?
Are you waiting for a terrorist attack to happen? Prevention is better than cure.
Because the French talk and talk and talk. The French were supposed to be 'policing' their beaches - laughable.
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How can legitimate asylum seekers legitimately claim asylum in the UK? They can only claim asylum from the UK. They cannot enter the UK legally. They may be able to get a visa to enter, but only by lying, which destrpys their asylum claim before it starts.
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Do you mean that 12 people arrived in the UK, and managed to avoid Border Force? Perhaps they had in their mind an intention to get to the UK, not Rwanda, and would do whatever it takes.
Open a processing centre in France, and there’s absolutely no reason for the vast majority (all the successful) applicants to even try the risky channel crossing; that would reduce the numbers so significantly, any left (and the smugglers that assist them) that did try (that’s if they returned to France, as they would then have been returned to their country of origin, as a failed asylum-seeker), should be a lot easier to manage & stop.
The alternative, of changing decades-old UN Declaration, may appear to have more than just human rights/protection of life at its heart for some UN members – certainly Russia, in an interview with BBC yesterday - see from 1:55), thinks our actions are only about the next elections.
Karl Limpert
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- Original Poster
- #222
The French aren’t interested. The simple method would be for the French to allow UK personnel to patrol their beaches to catch the people smugglers.
The 12 that arrived yesterday were via people smugglers with waiting cars to take we know not where.
It’s not about genuine asylum seekers, it’s about stopping the smugglers.
Let’s not go round in circles, we both think we’re right.
The 12 that arrived yesterday were via people smugglers with waiting cars to take we know not where.
It’s not about genuine asylum seekers, it’s about stopping the smugglers.
Let’s not go round in circles, we both think we’re right.
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Turkey bridges Asia and Europe - a lot of refugees from Syria enter Turkey - are they then in Asia or Europe for the purposes of your argument ? What about them leaving Turkey and entering Greece or Bulgaria over their European border ?
As for an island I was meaning you cant just say "we are different we are an island" it is spurious argument. Not least as we now have a land border with the EU with freedom of movement across it.
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France are not just interested it - they have asked us to do it
France urges UK to open legal migration route amid Channel crisis
French Interior Minister Gerald Darmanin urged Britain on Monday to open a legal route for asylum seekers in order to prevent people risking their lives by taking small boats across the Channel to England.
www.france24.com
"Great Britain needs to open up a legal immigration route" because "at the moment anyone who wants to ask for asylum has no other choice but to cross the Channel," Darmanin said in an interview with the RMC/BFM media group.
French officials have already suggested that British immigration officials process asylum requests in northern France from migrants camped out around the major ports on France's coast.
Surely that makes more sense and is cheaper than sending an unspecified number of UK cops for an unspecified amount of time to the North French coast ?
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- Original Poster
- #226
What do you think the French agenda is??France are not just interested it - they have asked us to do it
France urges UK to open legal migration route amid Channel crisis
French Interior Minister Gerald Darmanin urged Britain on Monday to open a legal route for asylum seekers in order to prevent people risking their lives by taking small boats across the Channel to England.
"Great Britain needs to open up a legal immigration route" because "at the moment anyone who wants to ask for asylum has no other choice but to cross the Channel," Darmanin said in an interview with the RMC/BFM media group.
French officials have already suggested that British immigration officials process asylum requests in northern France from migrants camped out around the major ports on France's coast.
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I don't believe that's true at all, MOIC, as the Manchester/Ariana Grande bomber for example was born in the UK. If the interests are about protecting life - not wanting to see people drowning in the Channel - why close the doors to genuine asylum seekers, based on myths?
Karl Limpert
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Or if you take the case of Emad Al Swealmeen (the Liverpool hospital bomber), he was a failed asylum-seeker, who should have been removed - except the Home Office didn't bother to return him to Iraq.
If either the Home Office had deported him as they should & had a right to, or if he had been processed in France & deported from there, he would never have been in the UK to commit terror at all.
Karl Limpert
If either the Home Office had deported him as they should & had a right to, or if he had been processed in France & deported from there, he would never have been in the UK to commit terror at all.
Karl Limpert
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They dont want our Police there (not least as we no longer both answer to the same ultimate arbitrator)
They have shed loads of refugees of their own and lots of problems with them on the southern coast - they want to get rid of the camps in the north which must be costing them a pretty penny to police. If we process people there and fingerprint them asap then I suspect they hope the refugees will get processed quickly and off their land and the illegal immigrants will look for other routes (like via Holland or Ireland)
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That is a spurious argument unless you also include all those children of Irish immigrants I mean look at all terrorist incidents linked to them. Or how about me and Oz as bike riders because of the animosity between certain bike groups - we could have anti bikie laws like in Aus
Let's just look at individuals as individuals and stop broad brushing groups of people which is what leads to the kind of resentment which allows extremism to grow
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OK, so there's some common ground: remove the need to be smuggled across the Channel, and the situation will improve.
Who cares about what the French agenda is? I thought we mostly-all also agreed on another point:
If the objective is to stop people having to cross the seas (or in the back of lorries), surely we can all support it, regardless of what the French have as an agenda?
As a sovereign nation, they should allow UK police/border force to patrol their shores in anyway we choose? That’s quite an ask, really cheeky from a UK who wants to insist on our sovereignty. And France rejected the idea only six months ago, so I doubt they’ll agree if we ask again so soon.
Karl Limpert
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I don't see these protesters lining runways every day, when plenty of failed asylum-seekers are deported. (I believe they are being deported regularly - I trust the Home Office are actually deporting some failed asylum-seekers; if not, they're failing us worse than I imagined.)
Karl Limpert
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Who does? And I thought this debate was about asylum seekers, as immigrants are completely different -only this week, George Eustice has said he'll allow 10,000 immigrants in to help out on farms.
Karl Limpert
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