I have been pondering....

[fisicx]

When people discuss SEO they always seem to focus on keywords. They look a research tools and competitors and ranking and all sorts of things that totally miss the point.

When I search for something I often don't want a thing I want an answer. Google knows people write a search query not single words.

For example: If I want to know how to attach a widget to a doodah I'll ask the question. If you focus your SEO efforts on widgets or doodahs you will miss on the targeted search and not sell your widget attachment thingy.

If you create content that solves problems and answers questions it will be much more aligned to the search query than if you focus on narrow keyword groups.

This doesn't mean ignore keywords, it just means you think about how people use a product or service rather than just getting ranked for a keyword.

Google is more about understanding and meaning. It's about being authoritative on a topic and demonstrating expertise.

So that's my ponder. Answer questions instead of trying to rank for a keyword.

 

[makingideaswrk]

Questions can be great for many reasons, but it really depends on your niche. If you're an e-commerce store then ranking for keywords must take priority over questions as when someone is searching for a product usually they're looking to purchase a product.

You could use questions for e-commerce if the product has questions that can be answered within an article but the number of people searching for that specific question would be minimal compared to a keyword.

 

[fisicx]

Yes, but even then don’t focus on the product name as a keyword. Look to rank for ‘buy x’ or ‘best price x’ or ‘x suppliers’. If you just rank for x you are less targeted than ranking for people looking to buy x.

 

[makingideaswrk]

Absolutely agree, long-tail keywords can be very effective for e-commerce. We've had lots of success simply adding "for sale" on the end of product names or categories for example.

 

[Deleted member 335660]

So that's my ponder. Answer questions instead of trying to rank for a keyword.

I think you have misunderstood the term “keywords” You will find there is a term “Long Tail Keywords” and this is a phrase people commonly use. In fact most SEO experts say new sites should focus on Long tails in order to get ranking. So I have been looking at he power of questions like “ I want to play better golf” and adding them to my site instead of just the word golf.

 

[antropy]

So that's my ponder. Answer questions instead of trying to rank for a keyword.

I think fundamentally, as Google being more and more "intelligent" it becomes more than a keyword matching algorithm but really does start to understand meaning.

With that in mind I think what you suggest will probably become more important that keywords at some time in the near future if not already. An insightful post I thought.

Paul.

 

[fisicx]

I think you have misunderstood the term “keywords”

Nope, I know exactly what I mean

So I have been looking at he power of questions like “ I want to play better golf” and adding them to my site instead of just the word golf.

Nope. What you do is answer the question “I want to play better golf” which is what the searcher wants. The appropriate keywords (long or short) will appear naturally in the content. You don't even need to have an exact match.

 

[fisicx]

With that in mind I think what you suggest will probably become more important that keywords at some time in the near future if not already. An insightful post I thought.

It is already happening. Google has been pushing the EAT agenda for a while. In the search quality evaluator guidelines section 3.2 it says EAT is very important.

Read the PDF (will take a few hours) and you will see it's not about keywords any more:

https://static.googleusercontent.com/media/guidelines.raterhub.com/en//searchqualityevaluatorguidelines.pdf

There are almost no mention of keywords in 170+ pages

 

[UKSBD]

It depend on your definition of keywords

in the phrase,

What Are The best Wheelchair Ramps for Stages?

"Wheelchair Ramps" isn't the keywords, "stages" isn't the keyword, "ramps for stages" isn't the keywords - The keyword is the whole phrase.

When I do keyword research I'm not looking for a word I'm looking for the phrases people would search for and if it's a question I use the phrase and answer it.

 

[fisicx]

It depend on your definition of keywords

in the phrase,

What Are The best Wheelchair Ramps for Stages?

"Wheelchair Ramps" isn't the keywords, "stages" isn't the keyword, "ramps for stages" isn't the keywords - The keyword is the whole phrase.

When I do keyword research I'm not looking for a word I'm looking for the phrases people would search for and if it's a question I use the phrase and answer it.

And that's exactly what I mean. The phrase itself doesn't matter - Google is looking for the best answer to the question. Hence EAT.

 

[UKSBD]

The phrase itself doesn't matter

I think most would disagree, it's better to have the question/phrase you are answering on the page too.

 

[fisicx]

I think most would disagree, it's better to have the question/phrase you are answering on the page too.

Have the context yes. But it doesn’t have to be an exact match.

“Examples of wheelchair ramps for theatre stages” could get you the ranking because the meaning is the same and your page contains the right information.

 

[thetiger2015]

...but I think Google is still struggling to serve people with the right content, because machines struggle to understand context and people searching Google sometimes adjust their search behaviour because they're dealing with a machine.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to use Google to find things that are actually useful. I was trying to search for issues relating to a vehicle problem today and it kept sending me to really old forums. The entire first 3 pages were forums, Halfords and a local garage. Nothing related to my search query, because it was longer than a few words. The forums were from 2011, nothing to do with my car but the same make, so Google just serves me any old nonsense.

Google goes on about having a good EAT score but if you use really long phrases, it just seems to focus on the keywords in that phrase, it doesn't understand the context of what has been written.

 

[DontAsk]

I am finding it increasingly difficult to use Google to find things that are actually useful. I was trying to search for issues relating to a vehicle problem today and it kept sending me to really old forums. The entire first 3 pages were forums, Halfords and a local garage. Nothing related to my search query, because it was longer than a few words. The forums were from 2011, nothing to do with my car but the same make, so Google just serves me any old nonsense.

That's often my experience too. Google obviously picks out one or two keywords and serves results based on those rather than the full context.

 

[alan1302]

Nothing related to my search query, because it was longer than a few words. The forums were from 2011, nothing to do with my car but the same make, so Google just serves me any old nonsense.

I'm noticing that a lot more as well...not sure if it's the way the internet is now though as I think there is a lot less sources of information - so much just goes via Facebook that Google can't index.

 

[mers]

...but I think Google is still struggling to serve people with the right content, because machines struggle to understand context and people searching Google sometimes adjust their search behaviour because they're dealing with a machine.

I am finding it increasingly difficult to use Google to find things that are actually useful. I was trying to search for issues relating to a vehicle problem today and it kept sending me to really old forums. The entire first 3 pages were forums, Halfords and a local garage. Nothing related to my search query, because it was longer than a few words. The forums were from 2011, nothing to do with my car but the same make, so Google just serves me any old nonsense.

Google goes on about having a good EAT score but if you use really long phrases, it just seems to focus on the keywords in that phrase, it doesn't understand the context of what has been written.

when it comes to vehicle problem, instead of searching it out on google, i suggest that you join a forum and ask the expert. the reason the forum pops up is because of the answers are on the forum that is related to your experience.

 

[SEODEV#338055]

When people discuss SEO they always seem to focus on keywords. They look a research tools and competitors and ranking and all sorts of things that totally miss the point.

When I search for something I often don't want a thing I want an answer. Google knows people write a search query not single words.

For example: If I want to know how to attach a widget to a doodah I'll ask the question. If you focus your SEO efforts on widgets or doodahs you will miss on the targeted search and not sell your widget attachment thingy.

If you create content that solves problems and answers questions it will be much more aligned to the search query than if you focus on narrow keyword groups.

This doesn't mean ignore keywords, it just means you think about how people use a product or service rather than just getting ranked for a keyword.

Google is more about understanding and meaning. It's about being authoritative on a topic and demonstrating expertise.

So that's my ponder. Answer questions instead of trying to rank for a keyword.

So what's your question?

 

[fisicx]

So what's your question?

Is my ponder correct?

 

[NickGrogan]

Keywords are easy to track and they're numbers which helps people think it's exact.

This makes SEO "experts" feel smarter because its "science", and buyers feel happier because they spent X and ranked for Y keywords, so its' only Z per keyword. Much easier to justify as an expense that way.

This completely ignores the fact that many of the keywords are related and the same content ranks for all of them.

It's all fantasy.

Like economics.


Whilst you're pondering, why do all SEO companies that want to charge a monthly fee claim it takes 6 months to rank for new keywords?

 

[fisicx]

It’s because they are all charlatans. They will produce lovely reports that say they have done XYZ but achieved the square root of FA.

A good seo person won’t quote a timescale.

 

[SEODEV#338055]

Oh dear where to start?

When people discuss SEO they always seem to focus on keywords.

Which people?

They look a research tools and competitors and ranking and all sorts of things that totally miss the point.

What is the point?

When I search for something I often don't want a thing I want an answer. Google knows people write a search query not single words.

Not true

I often search single words

• weather
• translate
• calculator
• maps
• taxi
• or any single word Wikipedia page
• or any dictionary word

For example: If I want to know how to attach a widget to a doodah I'll ask the question. If you focus your SEO efforts on widgets or doodahs you will miss on the targeted search and not sell your widget attachment thingy.

Not true

Product searches mostly have transactional intent and often result in sales

If you create content that solves problems and answers questions it will be much more aligned to the search query than if you focus on narrow keyword groups.

As opposed to content that does what?

Give an example

This doesn't mean ignore keywords, it just means you think about how people use a product or service rather than just getting ranked for a keyword.

I'm not interested in low volume product questions

More interested in high volume transactional intent product or service searches

Google is more about understanding and meaning. It's about being authoritative on a topic and demonstrating expertise.

Agreed

So that's my ponder. Answer questions instead of trying to rank for a keyword.

Doesn't make any sense sorry

What's wrong with trying to rank for a transactional intent keyword?

Go to Wikipedia if you want a plotted history

 

[SEODEV#338055]

It’s because they are all charlatans. They will produce lovely reports that say they have done XYZ but achieved the square root of FA.

A good seo person won’t quote a timescale.

I disagree

You can quote a timescale and incur penalties when the timescales are not achieved

SEO is an exact science

The more expertise you have about all the moving parts the better you can adapt to them in real time

 

[fisicx]

I'm not interested in low volume product questions

More interested in high volume transactional intent product or service searches

That's just you. If I'm looking for the answer to a problem I only need one good result.

When my mum isn't interested in high volume transactional intent product or service searches - she just want to know how to prune a rose. Her question will be worded to hopefully get the right answer.

Which was the point of this thread. Many people ask a question. I remember reading a Google article 10+ years ago where that said the majority of searches were 5 or more words. Sp even back then they recognised changing search behavior.

 

[thetiger2015]

That's just you. If I'm looking for the answer to a problem I only need one good result.

When my mum isn't interested in high volume transactional intent product or service searches - she just want to know how to prune a rose. Her question will be worded to hopefully get the right answer.

Which was the point of this thread. Many people ask a question. I remember reading a Google article 10+ years ago where that said the majority of searches were 5 or more words. Sp even back then they recognised changing search behavior.

...but you're talking about content related searches for websites that offer content?

For e-commerce, it's different..kind of...depending on the length of the sales funnel and your product offering. The blog area of an e-commerce site would be question related, e.g. best whey protein for beginners - that leads to suggestions on product search keywords that someone would use to make a purchase, maybe a few hours or days later.

The money making keyword would be Diet Whey 1kg though? That leads directly to the landing page with the buy button, as the intent is to purchase. The long tails and phrases are unlikely to lead to a sale on day 1.

There's quite a lot of nuance to it I think, some overlap too and not one size fits all, because long tail searches won't achieve quick results for an SEO agency etc.

 

[fisicx]

...but you're talking about content related searches for websites that offer content?

Sort of. I was thinking more about service providers where a query is posed and an answer expected. This is where long term really comes into play and is very lucrative. SEO agencies might not be interested in working with long tail but for small businesses the ROI is huge.

But as you say, SEO has many facets an nuances and what works for one may not work for others. I just know doing this has got me a lot more clients.

 

[SEODEV#338055]

Yeah well answering customer questions with blog posts, product information and FAQs is a given

I'm failing to understand the question

Perhaps you can sum it up in one concise sentence

 

[fisicx]

There is no one concise sentance not is there even a question. This was me just pondering about concepts. In fact I'm not even sure it applies to you as you appear to specialist in ecommerce SEO when this is more about businesses who provide a service (news, advice, information, trades etc).

It's about rethinking how you write your content to answer question rather than just concentrating on keywords.

 

[makeusvisible]

When people discuss SEO they always seem to focus on keywords. They look a research tools and competitors and ranking and all sorts of things that totally miss the point.

When I search for something I often don't want a thing I want an answer. Google knows people write a search query not single words.

For example: If I want to know how to attach a widget to a doodah I'll ask the question. If you focus your SEO efforts on widgets or doodahs you will miss on the targeted search and not sell your widget attachment thingy.

If you create content that solves problems and answers questions it will be much more aligned to the search query than if you focus on narrow keyword groups.

This doesn't mean ignore keywords, it just means you think about how people use a product or service rather than just getting ranked for a keyword.

Google is more about understanding and meaning. It's about being authoritative on a topic and demonstrating expertise.

So that's my ponder. Answer questions instead of trying to rank for a keyword.

Yeah its a very good point.

I suppose the one red herring in there is intent.

If for example, your target keyword is "door handles", the relevant questions might relate to 'whcih type of door handlle' or 'how to fit a door handle' etc etc.

The people searching for 'door handles' are probably a step or two further into the decision-making process, and thus are at a stage where they are ready to purchase. On the flip side, the user looking to find an answer, might well be served the answer from a ranking site.... and move on. They aren't yet quite ready to purchase.

Throw into the mix featured snippets, and if your answer is good enough, and ranks well enough, you could well find your answer appearing as a featured snippet in search results, and thus the people searching won't even need to visit your website.

That said, it could be argued that if your one of the few results giving a solid solution to the question, you become an authority, and thus your conversion rate rockets and it's a winner.

 

[thetiger2015]

Yeah well answering customer questions with blog posts, product information and FAQs is a given

I'm failing to understand the question

Perhaps you can sum it up in one concise sentence

Not necessarily a given. CEOs tend to focus on the 'money' keywords, they don't look further up the funnel, where the intent to purchase is not yet ripe.

People do get caught up in keyword research and analysing keyword positions, because it's an answer to a question, usually brought up in meetings by people who pay the agency fees but don't quite understand the complexity of the work involved. They just want to see all of their keywords with a 'Position 1' next to them.

It can be difficult to have a meeting between and agency and a client, knowing that the client is looking for absolute answers, where as the agency may be working on several things at the same time, all of which have brought zero profit at the moment but will do in the long term. It's hard for an agency to quantify that work, when it cannot be seen in results straight away.

 

[makeusvisible]

CEOs tend to focus on the 'money' keywords, they don't look further up the funnel, where the intent to purchase is not yet ripe.

It can be difficult to have a meeting between and agency and a client, knowing that the client is looking for absolute answers, where as the agency may be working on several things at the same time,

This !!!

 

[fisicx]

That said, it could be argued that if your one of the few results giving a solid solution to the question, you become an authority, and thus your conversion rate rockets and it's a winner.

Which is what happened to me. Was getting a lot of people landing a page which answered a specific WordPress question. I reworked the content, added some links to money pages and started getting a lot more enquiries.

Ranking vanity keywords can be lucrative for the SEO agency but less lucrative for the company if the visitor fails to convert. But 'split shaft brass door handles' is going to get people wanting that specific item.

 

[Paul Carmen]

Ranking vanity keywords can be lucrative for the SEO agency but less lucrative for the company if the visitor fails to convert. But 'split shaft brass door handles' is going to get people wanting that specific item.

That's the real questions and why most reports are rubbish and focus on ranking/traffic only.

The real measure of the success of SEO (or PPC, email, social etc) is the result of the work. In your examples for service/info businesses it should be more leads, for ecommerce more sales.

Some short tail vanity type keywords do end up as leads/sales down the line, many don't. If you aren't tracking all lead types then you'll never know. You need to have as few tracking gaps as possible, so forms, sales, phone calls, funnels etc all need proper tracking, as well as being able to identify the source, landing page and whether they're unique/repeat visitors etc.

Google is better at intent and long tail than it used to be, but still not great, there are plenty of examples where the results they show are not right or relevant on long queries.

For local businesses and markets, or searches that aren't very competitive, your content driven approach is often enough to rank well. For competitive industries and searches, the question/long tail volume is often too small to deliver, and shorter tail keywords are very relevant for both content and driving traffic to the page as part of the SEO process.

 

[SEODEV#338055]

There is no one concise sentance not is there even a question. This was me just pondering about concepts. In fact I'm not even sure it applies to you as you appear to specialist in ecommerce SEO when this is more about businesses who provide a service (news, advice, information, trades etc).

eCommerce sites publish a great deal of information, news and advice aside from product landing pages

It's about rethinking how you write your content to answer question rather than just concentrating on keywords.

I think your presumption that the majority of people who operate eCommerce sites focus on keywords is incorrect, but do provide examples to back up your assumption and I will stand corrected

Certainly the best course of action is always to answer a question and then follow the Google search guidelines by optimising that content for SEO

 

[fisicx]

I’m not presuming anything. This thread is just a ponder to elicit views. I’m not suggesting I am right, wrong or somewhere in the middle. You clearly have a strong opinion on the matter which is added to the range of responses.

 

[Swansea SEO]

Yes, but even then don’t focus on the product name as a keyword. Look to rank for ‘buy x’ or ‘best price x’ or ‘x suppliers’. If you just rank for x you are less targeted than ranking for people looking to buy x.

Agree with fisicx on this, the keyword you are focussing on should reflect the 'buyer intent', if using PPC or SEO, you need to be efficient in targeting buyer keyword, rather than competing with brands.

Hope that helps

 

[SEODEV#338055]

I’m not presuming anything. This thread is just a ponder to elicit views. I’m not suggesting I am right, wrong or somewhere in the middle. You clearly have a strong opinion on the matter which is added to the range of responses.

I shouldn't have got involved in this thread

Too vague, not focused at all

 

[fisicx]

Too vague, not focused at all

Deliberately so.

 

[alan1302]

I shouldn't have got involved in this thread

Too vague, not focused at all

That's what a ponder is.

 

[zigojacko]

That comes down to understanding and being able to measure search intent. Which can then be broken down into multiple routes and ways of structuring your website's content.

Which is basically where we're at with SEO in 2022 anyway. ?

Ultimately though, you're right as you can rank a page for a lot more associated search queries by trying to solve a problem but that's what everyone should have already been doing as it will also improve rank for single/double keyword terms anyway.

If I am in buy-mode though, I am searching for 'blue widgets' - these terms will carry the most search volume (as opposed to queries like 'how do I optimise my blue widget" hence why these are ultimately rank tracked.

Depends on your site and the solution you are providing to your target audience a lot.

If you're running a YMYL site, then you have to think outside the box using search intent as that will only be the way to rank well in the current state of Google.

P.S - Just searched everywhere for the SEO forum that used to be here. Hah!

 

[SolomonD]

A good FAQ (or in fact multiple FAQs on different landing pages) works really well.