Vaccine anyone?

Is the risk of having the vaccine as big as the risk of not having the vaccine?
Isn't that what it boils down to in the end for any individual?

That's exactly it.

Vaccines are taken for all kinds of things. It's just based on risk for the individual and their circumstances. If someone lives in a shack on a mountain, are they required to take the vaccine?

If this was something like airborne Ebola - yeah, OK, panic!

Also, are we waiting for infection rates to drop before lockdown ends? If so, does taking the vaccine stop you getting infected? If not.....
 
Upvote 0
Why take a vaccine if people aren't really dying from it anyway?

Make your mind up?

I didn't say nobody had died from it, I'm sure many have, but 1700 people die a day in this Country but they don't give you a daily round up in the news on that do they. 500 people die every day of Cancer, you don't hear about it.

This thing has obviously been exaggerated for profiteering, and partly by scare mongering. Of the 100,000 or so people on the death list, did you know that only some 388 were below age of 60? What that means is that virtually our whole economy was shut down for basically 388 deaths.

The reason I say that is because the majority of the work force is 60 and under, where there has proved to be very little risk of death. The age group that have suffered the most is retirement age - those people can isolate with no change to their life but the rest of the work force has been shut down for minimal deaths. Just think about that for a moment. Think about the spike in depression amongst the youth, the incredible rise in suicides.

I will say again, I'm not against the vaccine, if you feel safer to take it then take it, I personally won't be taking it, but as one doctor said recently, why would I take a vaccine for something with a 99% recovery rate lol?

If you're vulnerable, different story, get vaccinated - then go out and socialise again, unless you're worried that you're not fully protected um in which case you might have to carry on social distancing, for the rest of your life - or until there's a cure eh?
 
Upvote 0
That's exactly it.

Vaccines are taken for all kinds of things. It's just based on risk for the individual and their circumstances. If someone lives in a shack on a mountain, are they required to take the vaccine?

If this was something like airborne Ebola - yeah, OK, panic!

Also, are we waiting for infection rates to drop before lockdown ends? If so, does taking the vaccine stop you getting infected? If not.....

Yep agree, but the infection rates are wrong aren't they, the PCR test was declared unfit for purpose with an estimated 97% inaccuracy rate! WHO just recently declared a problem with that test lol.
I'm sure everyone has seen the false positive test, many people have done it, you don't actually use the swab you just break it in half, send it back and it comes back positive. It's been done extensively by members of the public. I've even witnessed it being done by a family member.
 
Upvote 0
Upvote 0
I probably should know better than to contribute to this discussion, but I can't forget what I've seen over the last year or so, but that's mainly because I'm curious and started looking into this whole thing in quite a lot of detail, and as always, if you follow the money, you'll get somewhere near the truth.

Obviously the true stats are starting to dribble out. American news networks started reporting on info from the CDC which is shocking - the amount of people who were not killed by Covid, but included in the stats. They have started reporting it here also now. PHE including you in their list months after a test, even if you were killed crossing the road.

The same Pharma people are driving this as have driven other endless treatments over cures so it's no real surprise that people have been massively profiteering over this.

I think at the end of the day if you think you need a vaccine then take it. There is no cure or 100% effectiveness so I'm not really sure how it changes anything, will you accept just a lower risk of catching it now and go back to socialising when allowed, or will you continue to stay out of the way?

If you don't like how figures are worked out then use different figures.
Perhaps use the North Korean method of counting covid deaths. Or the French method. Or whatever other method.

Or you could look at the deaths total as compared to the average of past few years. Higher deaths one year you can ask what caused the increase.

I'll still take measures to stay safe even after vaccine. Mask around other people, wash hands regularly, social distancing where possible and so on.

Saves getting the virus again.
 
Upvote 0
I didn't say nobody had died from it, I'm sure many have, but 1700 people die a day in this Country but they don't give you a daily round up in the news on that do they. 500 people die every day of Cancer, you don't hear about it.

This thing has obviously been exaggerated for profiteering, and partly by scare mongering. Of the 100,000 or so people on the death list, did you know that only some 388 were below age of 60? What that means is that virtually our whole economy was shut down for basically 388 deaths.

The reason I say that is because the majority of the work force is 60 and under, where there has proved to be very little risk of death. The age group that have suffered the most is retirement age - those people can isolate with no change to their life but the rest of the work force has been shut down for minimal deaths. Just think about that for a moment. Think about the spike in depression amongst the youth, the incredible rise in suicides.

I will say again, I'm not against the vaccine, if you feel safer to take it then take it, I personally won't be taking it, but as one doctor said recently, why would I take a vaccine for something with a 99% recovery rate lol?

If you're vulnerable, different story, get vaccinated - then go out and socialise again, unless you're worried that you're not fully protected um in which case you might have to carry on social distancing, for the rest of your life - or until there's a cure eh?

Here's another soundbyte guy in the Justin mould

Can you post a link to (in your words) "the incredible rise in suicides"

I will even allow you to include over 60s in the figures if it helps you (even though deaths of over 60s don't normally count of course)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Upvote 0
The situation with public health england? Just look it up. Matt Hancock disbanded it and they rounded the death stats down 5k for the very reasons I mentioned above. The true inflated figure was suspected to be far higher than 5k but that was the governments token acknowledgement of it.

Don't rely on the BBC and Sky news to always tell you the truth. there are many other news outlets and experts that will though, you just have to have a look around a bit

Indeed - and figure out who is telling the truth and who is pandering to your beliefs.
The media have customers, they cater to their customers. If they can tell the truth as well then great, but telling a story catering to their customers is worth more.
 
Upvote 0
I didn't say nobody had died from it, I'm sure many have, but 1700 people die a day in this Country but they don't give you a daily round up in the news on that do they. 500 people die every day of Cancer, you don't hear about it.

This thing has obviously been exaggerated for profiteering, and partly by scare mongering. Of the 100,000 or so people on the death list, did you know that only some 388 were below age of 60? What that means is that virtually our whole economy was shut down for basically 388 deaths.

The reason I say that is because the majority of the work force is 60 and under, where there has proved to be very little risk of death. The age group that have suffered the most is retirement age - those people can isolate with no change to their life but the rest of the work force has been shut down for minimal deaths. Just think about that for a moment. Think about the spike in depression amongst the youth, the incredible rise in suicides.

I will say again, I'm not against the vaccine, if you feel safer to take it then take it, I personally won't be taking it, but as one doctor said recently, why would I take a vaccine for something with a 99% recovery rate lol?

If you're vulnerable, different story, get vaccinated - then go out and socialise again, unless you're worried that you're not fully protected um in which case you might have to carry on social distancing, for the rest of your life - or until there's a cure eh?

Are you seriously suggesting that old people that die should be ignored simply because they are old????

Some of those on here are over 60. Some on here have family members over the age of 60.

Your chance of dying from the virus may be very small. Worse, you could live. And suffer long covid (1 in 10 chance?) or be required to go to hospital - with such great food, great company and lots of activities for patients stuck in bed.

Would not recommend anyone get the virus. And seriously people do not want long covid.
There's a young guy in my village, just finished uni a couple of years ago and was saving up to get married. He's only 23 - and now he can barely move. Perhaps he will get better one day, perhaps not - but effectively for now his life is over. No social life, basically housebound and resting 20 odd hours a day.
Early last year - Active social life, pretty fit physically, a lifetime ahead of him. Now the highlight of the day is a phone call about pacing.
 
Upvote 0
If you don't like how figures are worked out then use different figures.
Perhaps use the North Korean method of counting covid deaths. Or the French method. Or whatever other method.

Or you could look at the deaths total as compared to the average of past few years. Higher deaths one year you can ask what caused the increase.

I'll still take measures to stay safe even after vaccine. Mask around other people, wash hands regularly, social distancing where possible and so on.

Saves getting the virus again.

Totally agree, if you feel vulnerable do what you need to do. The UK is running on a 97% recovery rate though. You've got a much higher chance of being killed in a car crash, just for comparison
 
Upvote 0
Should there be some kind of IQ test to be able to post on here in future?

Even something like "what's 8+5?" might weed out a few from posting on here?

We could maybe have an amnesty and allow a few of the existing posters to stay who might not pass. We don't have to back date it?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Hunnie
Upvote 0
Totally agree, if you feel vulnerable do what you need to do. The UK is running on a 97% recovery rate though. You've got a much higher chance of being killed in a car crash, just for comparison

LOL - I've a lot less chance of being killed in a car crash. Have to go out of the house first - a shortage of cars driving over the garden wall to hit me inside the house.

I've a much higher chance of being killed by allergies or by heart attack.

However, the risks this virus gives have long term effects too.

Never mind the major impact of overwhelming the NHS. Do that and the deaths will go up. Get in a car accident and be bleeding? Use a t-shirt to stop the flow of blood. Find out if any passing drivers have power tools in the car that can be used if amputation needed.
Don't need an ambulance or hospital when they are full. Can die at the roadside or while being driven home in a car while bleeding out.
 
Upvote 0
You've got a much higher chance of being killed in a car crash, just for comparison
And your point is? It's not now nor has it ever been about the number of deaths.

If you don't understand something as basic as this no wonder you are confused about the vaccinations.
 
Upvote 0
Are you seriously suggesting that old people that die should be ignored simply because they are old????
.

A very dramatic reaction indeed. Where did I say old people should be ignored? The fact is, far more people will probably die as a result of the lock downs, but you won't get that stat, you'll just get Covid news.

Look folks, I'm not telling anyone what they should or shouldn't do, I'm simply saying there is a far bigger picture on this if anyone is interested to look but I'm aware the scare mongering has got to such epic proportions that some people can't accept it's anything different from what your six o clock news is telling you, and to be honest, sometimes it's better to just not know. Anyone can look at the published stats for this country though, and come to some kind of conclusion, 3.5 million cases, 104k deaths.

People should just do what is right for them
 
Upvote 0
This thing has obviously been exaggerated for profiteering, and partly by scare mongering.

I agree with you that the deaths due to Covid have been exaggerated but I'm not sure why.

My wife is a nurse on a cardiac ward and she told me that the doctors are told to put all deaths down to covid if possible. She was nursing a 94 year old man with severe heart and lung issues who came into the hospital with very little chance of recovery. He caught covid whilst in the hospital and as expected he died and became another covid statistic.

I don't believe that the deaths are exaggerated for profiteering purposes or for scaremongering either but I guess that the hospitals are happy to go along with it as it keeps their mortality statistics low
 
  • Like
Reactions: Mattymoomoo
Upvote 0
All we need now is Justin to arrive on the scene with the immortal words

"Finally, someone talking sense on here!"
 
Upvote 0
Paul - can you post the stats about people in the UK dying from being placed in lockdown as well when you get the chance?

Justin couldn't find any when I asked him the other day?

Sounds like you know where they are?
 
Upvote 0
I agree with you that the deaths due to Covid have been exaggerated but I'm not sure why.

My wife is a nurse on a cardiac ward and she told me that the doctors are told to put all deaths down to covid if possible. She was nursing a 94 year old man with severe heart and lung issues who came into the hospital with very little chance of recovery. He caught covid whilst in the hospital and as expected he died and became another covid statistic.

I don't believe that the deaths are exaggerated for profiteering purposes or for scaremongering either but I guess that the hospitals are happy to go along with it as it keeps their mortality statistics low

Or it may help the NHS secure more funding in the future, they will need more money to help ensure this mess doesnt happen again.
 
Upvote 0
A very dramatic reaction indeed. Where did I say old people should be ignored? The fact is, far more people will probably die as a result of the lock downs, but you won't get that stat, you'll just get Covid news.

Look folks, I'm not telling anyone what they should or shouldn't do, I'm simply saying there is a far bigger picture on this if anyone is interested to look but I'm aware the scare mongering has got to such epic proportions that some people can't accept it's anything different from what your six o clock news is telling you, and to be honest, sometimes it's better to just not know. Anyone can look at the published stats for this country though, and come to some kind of conclusion, 3.5 million cases, 104k deaths.

People should just do what is right for them

How are people dying as a result of the lockdowns?

If we had not had the lockdown this time then NHS would have shut by now. Then what would death numbers have been like?
You have difficulty breathing? Sorry no beds, stay at home...

3.5 million cases, 104k deaths.....
Pretty high death rate from a virus.
 
Upvote 0
The situation with public health england? Just look it up.
I have. Can't see anything about deaths from car accidents months after a covid test being reported as you suggest.
 
Upvote 0
Or it may help the NHS secure more funding in the future, they will need more money to help ensure this mess doesnt happen again.

More money?

Haven’t we all been staying in for about a year to ‘protect the nhs’? To allow time to build it up with billions more pounds, thousands more staff and thousands more beds?

That’s what Boris Johnson said we had to stay in for. What’s gone wrong for them to still be struggling after a year to prepare?
 
Upvote 0
How are people dying as a result of the lockdowns?
.

When people are deprived by the conservatives of the ability to operate their businesses and/or placed into relative poverty, their life expectancy is shorter.

So, apart from the inevitable raft of mental health issues which will also inevitably lead to shorter lives, there will be a long-term effect on how long people live.

I hope that is of some help.
 
Upvote 0
I have. Can't see anything about deaths from car accidents months after a covid test being reported as you suggest.

Deaths go down as Covid deaths if someone has tested positive within 28 days - no matter what the actual cause of death is.
 
Upvote 0
When people are deprived by the conservatives of the ability to operate their businesses and/or placed into relative poverty, their life expectancy is shorter.

So, apart from the inevitable raft of mental health issues which will also inevitably lead to shorter lives, there will be a long-term effect on how long people live.

I hope that is of some help.

So how many have died in the UK from going into "relative poverty" so far Simon?

I keep asking for some figures. But all I get back is flowery BS.

IMO

Is there any kind of NHS treatment, vaccine or cure for "relative poverty"?

And do you think the victims could go out and find another job/income or is that it? Game over for them?

I think I've lost far more than most due to lockdown. But I'm not going to allow it to kill me?

Covid I've got far less control over. Hopefully that won't kill me either though.
 
Upvote 0
More money?

Haven’t we all been staying in for about a year to ‘protect the nhs’? To allow time to build it up with billions more pounds, thousands more staff and thousands more beds?

That’s what Boris Johnson said we had to stay in for. What’s gone wrong for them to still be struggling after a year to prepare?

And you are getting this extra staff from where????
 
Upvote 0
When people are deprived by the conservatives of the ability to operate their businesses and/or placed into relative poverty, their life expectancy is shorter.

So, apart from the inevitable raft of mental health issues which will also inevitably lead to shorter lives, there will be a long-term effect on how long people live.

I hope that is of some help.

So in other words not dying from lockdown at all. Just people making stuff up as to causes.
 
Upvote 0
When people are deprived by the conservatives of the ability to operate their businesses and/or placed into relative poverty, their life expectancy is shorter.

So, apart from the inevitable raft of mental health issues which will also inevitably lead to shorter lives, there will be a long-term effect on how long people live.

I hope that is of some help.

Why can't they all show a "can do attitude" and find another job/income?

Surely they can at least avoid having to die from this Simon?
 
Upvote 0
Do you understand what ‘long term’ means?

And if you seriously doubt that poorer people die earlier then you cannot be helped. I’m not going to look it up for you. Surely you went to school?

A short term lockdown does not need to kill anyone long term (like you preach - show a can do attitude and find new income short term and long term).

Covid will certainly kill millions of us long term? And if you are unlucky you can't do much about that. Especially each year you get older.

And if Covid kills you now then for sure you can't find that new income long term.
 
Upvote 0
I’m sure many are.

But highly disrespectful and rather spoilt of you to pretend that these draconian measures don’t shorten lives.

Like I say do something about it. Spend all day and week complaining about draconian measures and asking for the Govt to help you then yes maybe you will stay in "relative poverty" as you like to describe it

Or get off your arse and do something about it.

The complainers and moaners may well lose years of their lives. The ones who show a can do attitude don't need to.

There are always winners and losers in life.

And Covid is just another challenge to overcome.

Some people prefer to complain and moan than do anything to step up to the challenge.

Are you one of them Simon?

Or are all your complaints on behalf of others?
 
Upvote 0

Latest Articles