Taking over my employer

[TheEveryman]

I work for a small catering business, my role is to stock, repair and maintain a round of vending machines.

Many of our vending locations require more investment in new hardware, one I believe is close to leaving us due to their unhappiness.

My employer won't put the money up which would boost sales and most importantly keep us at the location.

So I've thought about starting my own vending business and contacting this particular location to ask if they would switch to me, I'd deliver new hardware and a better service once I'm free from my employer. If they're leaving anyway it's better I get it than one of the big companies.

However, I'd also need to keep my job and this obviously won't go down well with my employer but I'm too important to let go.

Any thoughts on this?

I'm also wondering about registering the new business, do I have to do it or could I declare a second income and submit it's revenue and expenses?

I may have to set it up now in preparation but it might not actually make any money until later this year.

Thanks.

 

[Vending Siting Services]

Hello and welcome to UKBF

Are you able to share with us how many vending machines the site currently has, the type of vendors and how often you service them, together with revenues taken out of the vendors, what type of contract does your company have with the site and finally the types of snacks on offer.

Based on that information it will be easier to work out if it is worth your while.

Is there something in your contract of employment that allows you to take this venture on.

Kind regards

Barbara

 

[MBE2017]

So I've thought about starting my own vending business and contacting this particular location to ask if they would switch to me, I'd deliver new hardware and a better service once I'm free from my employer. If they're leaving anyway it's better I get it than one of the big companies.

However, I'd also need to keep my job and this obviously won't go down well with my employer but I'm too important to let go.

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks.

Nothing to stop you contacting the company, setting up etc, but don't expect your employer to be happy, and never be foolish enough to believe you are too important to let go. If you came to myself in the same manner you would be gone in under a minute.

Maybe I am old fashioned but I like to treat people decently, in your case that would be to leave and set up, then approach the old client, but that's just my approach. Obviously it is more risky, but your potential client might not look on it too well either if you do things in an underhand manner. That said we all know it goes on.

Your call.

 

[TheEveryman]

Hi Barbara I see you on the coin operated group forums =]

I am too important to let go, not trying to play the big man.

My current employer relies solely on me to keep the vending part of the business going, without me it would slowly unravel with out of order machines etc...

I can't leave though I need the income, vending is something that you establish slowly it could take a year or more to have enough machines to get by on.

The way things are going this site is going to leave my employer anyway, why should one of the big boys get the site instead of me?

Anyone know if I would have to register?

 

[Scalloway]

Anyone know if I would have to register?

If you are just planning to do it self employed you only need to register with HMRC when you actually start doing business.

 

[TheEveryman]

Ok thanks.

What about taxes? It would be a second income but at first I'd estimate it only being around 10-12k per year - expenses so profit would be around half that, fag packet maths there.

 

[Scalloway]

If your profit is £6,000 then you will pay 20% tax on it which will be £1,200. If it is above £6,025 you will pay Class 2 NI of £2.85 per week of self employment as well. If your profit is above £8,164 you will pay Class 4 NI of 9% of the amount above £8,164.

 

[TheEveryman]

Thanks for that I'll save that information.

What's the next income tax bracket for a second income after £6,000 ?

 

[Scalloway]

£6,000 was just a figure plucked from the information you gave. Full details on tax bands is here.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...d-tax-credit-rates-and-thresholds-for-2017-18

 

[paulears]

Most contracts of employment have clauses in them that stop you doing this. You cannot have the trust of your employer if you intend stabbing them in the back like this, and if the area of the business you are critical for is losing money, then surely, at some point they would question how well you are doing your job - if you can do it better for yourself, would it not be better to do it better for your employer, and then they make money and you get an adjusted salary for the extra effort. If you start up in competition, do you really believe they will keep you on? That's never going to happen, and once the trust is broken, you will be out the door pronto.

 

[TheEveryman]

I understand that people here are established business owners and the thought of this 'back stabbing' is quite uncomfortable.

The business I work for is very small, there's only 5 of us including the owner.

I didn't say the vending is losing money, I don't see all the numbers but I'm pretty sure it's the only part that turns any kind of profit and it's a big enough profit to keep the rest afloat which I know is only breaking even at best, and apart from putting the money down for new investments I do all the work anyway!

There's nothing in the contract to say I can't do it and if I can do it better myself why would I stay with my employer ? I do the hard work while they count the money.

 

[Mark T Jones]

I understand that people here are established business owners and the thought of this 'back stabbing' is quite uncomfortable.

The business I work for is very small, there's only 5 of us including the owner.

I didn't say the vending is losing money, I don't see all the numbers but I'm pretty sure it's the only part that turns any kind of profit and it's a big enough profit to keep the rest afloat which I know is only breaking even at best, and apart from putting the money down for new investments I do all the work anyway!

There's nothing in the contract to say I can't do it and if I can do it better myself why would I stay with my employer ? I do the hard work while they count the money.

There is a big difference between leaving your employer and nicking his customers whilst continuing to take his money.

You will be on thin ice legally and the chances of being caught out are high, so why not do the job properly? Do your research, leave and set up an open. Honest business?

 

[paulears]

You also said you don't see all the numbers, so you may well not know how well the business is performing with incomplete data. It sounds underhand and sneaky, let alone ungrateful for the income you've had from them. Leave by all means, but taking their pay as a seatbelt seems morally despicable.

 

[The Byre]

You have a four-way choice -

• Start a new company properly.
• Offer your employer a partnership, insisting on decent equipment.
• Buy-out that part of the business.
• Carry on as you are.

 

[MBE2017]

I understand that people here are established business owners and the thought of this 'back stabbing' is quite uncomfortable.

The business I work for is very small, there's only 5 of us including the owner.

There's nothing in the contract to say I can't do it and if I can do it better myself why would I stay with my employer ? I do the hard work while they count the money.

You put it very well, why would you stay with your employer? As for you doing the hard word, no, you are doing what you are paid for. It might take a while, but one day I'm sure you will regret this course of action if you proceed.

Think of it this way, if you do this, your current employer might decide to kill all the profit in this contract, and any others they find you obtain. Find it hard to believe? Well, I've done it several times over many years to people who have stabbed myself in the back, and ensured they make bugger all whenever I can.

Anyone doing things the right way I have no problem with, and I leave them alone and simply treat them as normal competition. Being Welsh, I never forget and never forgive.

What you propose is potentially threatening four other people's income from a point of trust.

 

[The Byre]

Being Welsh, I never forget and never forgive.

It's the constant rain that makes them like that!

 

[TheEveryman]

I am definitely doing the hard work while employer counts the money.

As I said, the vending is solely my responsibility, that's everything from finding new customers, going to meetings, writing up contracts, buying machines, installing, stocking, repairs and maintenance. All employer does is pay for the machines I get a slightly increased hourly rate for my efforts but it's a fraction of what they see.

I just started thinking this way recently and now I'm feeling that I'm taken for granted.

It's true I don't see the final profit figure but I know what we pay for stock, I know what I'm paid, I know what repairs cost as it's factored into my hourly rate and I know what parts cost because I buy them, and I know what each machine takes by looking at the counters on the machines.

There's no legal thin ice and no chance of being caught because if I do it I'll come straight out and admit it in person.

The location I mentioned are pissed off with our service because they need new hardware which employer won't pay for... If the situation gets worse I'll step in representing myself and start looking for other new sites of my own.

Partnership idea might increase my pay a bit but I'm still working for someone else's gain. The input isn't 50/50 so why should the output be 50/50?

There's no way I'd lose my job, that's not arrogance it's truth, I took a week off two years ago, spent all my holiday on the phone and came back to chaos, it's a very small business and no one else knows what they're doing. Third parties are a risk to have involved in such a cut throat industry.

Anyway, thanks for the advice (and criticism) ^_^

 

[The Byre]

It sounds as if you need to start your own show - if only for your self-respect!

 

[TheEveryman]

Yeh, I'm fired up about it now, a bit angry even.

If I was my employer I wouldn't have let any staff member go ahead on their own as I have, employer doesn't know how to run their own business and I've been the free meal ticket.

Vending machines anyone ?

 

[Mr D]

It's the constant rain that makes them like that!

And the language. Lovely language so long as not having to listen to it.

 

[Mr D]

I am definitely doing the hard work while employer counts the money.

As I said, the vending is solely my responsibility, that's everything from finding new customers, going to meetings, writing up contracts, buying machines, installing, stocking, repairs and maintenance. All employer does is pay for the machines I get a slightly increased hourly rate for my efforts but it's a fraction of what they see.

^_^

Yes, that's what employer pays you for.

Start your own business, you too can be seen to be counting the money while others do the hard work.
Reality is not always what you see. What you don't see may complete the picture.

 

[Jon Ritecz]

I support the notion of wanting to set up a business for yourself. I also support the notion of wanting to provide a better service in a sector you know really well. To my mind, it's a no-brainer to go into that industry.

What I would advise in the first instance, is that you discuss your thoughts with your employer; if you're going to be open with him about your new business in the long run anyway, you may as well start that truth-train immediately. Give him a chance to give you his feedback on your proposal, getting in front of it is a good way to not look untrustworthy; and believe me, your boss will see it that way otherwise!

Being open and upfront about your proposal will allow you to get him on good terms, that in itself may open a lot of doors. He may be willing to sign over that arm of the business to you (for a price of course), or possibly dovetail your new business with his old business (if he isn't willing to invest, is he winding up that part of the business anyway?).

There's lots of possibilities to start your own venture amicably, without fear of reprise from the Welsh contingent... But let's not forget that until now, your boss has borne 100% of the financial risk and supported 5 people - potentially their families too - in doing so, so approaching him with respect is the least he deserves.

Good luck with your future endeavours!

 

[rich211]

Start a new company!