So what after Brexiteers' Damages

[Swisaw]

So what after Brexiteers’ damages

The country wants a long term negotiated exit after securing a best deal in EU for UK. But EU wants us to exit now without any deals. Obviously this is to make things harder for us to make us a lesson for the rest of EU members. In other words EU may become something very costly for us. It becomes almost no entry zone for us.



When article 50 invoked, the exit becomes complete after two years if we like it or not. During these two years, we can not participate in any discussion with EU. So EU decides how we can exit and what sort of relationship we can have with EU. It is obvious any sort of relationships they decide for us with EU, is going to be like a heavy load on our back to make us a lesson for the rest of EU member states.



So what is the solution? A best solution is not to invoke article 50, as a damage control, no matter how long it takes or until we comprehend the damages, we inflict on ourselves by leaving EU. After that another referendum should take place.

 

[MBE1]

What a lot of tripe.

 

[Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon]

That is the opposite of damage control.

It means the question over Brexit remains for at least a decade because there will be more calls for referendums. If by some strange set of circumstances it is stopped the Brexit question is clearly going no where. While that hangs over our heads it will affect investment and cause turmoil for longer.

We would become completely powerless in the EU. Quick summary of events so far (1) We have asked for reforms countless times and got told no. (2) on the ever of the referendum Juncker very loudly and publicly said no more negotiations (3) The day after the referendum the Juncker says bye bye, please hurry up (4) Today France, Germany & Italy said they wont negotiate anything at all until Article 50 is triggered. So after we throw away our referendum vote, what makes you think for one second the EU will negotiate further with us? They will just say "Or what? You're going to leave us are you?".

We have firmly put our cards on the table and drawn a very clear line. We have to hold fast and wait for the official responses. If they want to give us key elements of what the UK needs, then stop things. If they dont, we continue.

If you think we can negotiate with the EU, there is 40 years of history that says your wrong. As Einstein said "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

 

[Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon]

When article 50 invoked, the exit becomes complete after two years if we like it or not. During these two years, we can not participate in any discussion with EU. So EU decides how we can exit and what sort of relationship we can have with EU. It is obvious any sort of relationships they decide for us with EU, is going to be like a heavy load on our back to make us a lesson for the rest of EU member states.

Just realised how wrong this is. The discussion is very much between the UK and the remaining EU. The EU just cant design a treaty between us and them and make us sign it without us being involved - that is not how it works at all. Dont forget on our side we have the 5th biggest economy in the world, 2nd in the G7 and growing almost twice as fast as the EU. We are also the country that the core EU countries export 5-10% of their output to. The EU now has zero access to any of that (after a Brexit) without our say so. We also have no access to the EU without their say so.

So if they come back and say all British goods will attract a 20% tariff from now on, we say all EU goods attract a 20% tariff. And then everyone suffers. If there is any kind of tariff war or trade war, like a nuclear war there are no winners just losers.

One or two French MPs said they wanted to teach the UK a lesson, so lets say the French play hardball. Even that doesnt matter because we only need 20 countries on board to get a treaty with the EU done. Unlike other types of decision making in the EU, with trade treaties there are no vetos and all is needed is 20 countries or countries representing 80% of the EU population

It is in both sides interest to get deals done quickly and with the minimum barriers possible.

What France, Germany and Italy have said today is that those negotiations only start after the article 50 is triggered and not before. That I totally understand, as it is in their economic interest for us to decide ASAP if we are in or out - the longer we take to give the final decision, the longer the turmoil affects their economies

 

[Swisaw]

Article 50

• 
• 

1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.

2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.

3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

4. For the purposes of paragraphs 2 and 3, the member of the European Council or of the Council representing the withdrawing Member State shall not participate in the discussions of the European Council or Council or in decisions concerning it.

A qualified majority shall be defined in accordance with Article 238(3)(b) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union.

5. If a State which has withdrawn from the Union asks to rejoin, its request shall be subject to the procedure referred to in Article 49.

 

[Swisaw]

Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon,

I hope all your analysis are correct and Brexit becomes a bless for this country. But unfortunately all signs indicate the opposite way. We have to bear in mind it will be very hard for us without EU, that is a fact but not the same thing on EU without us. I hope I am wrong. The reaction in EU seems to be hard. Now even they threaten the use of English as one of EU official languages. We have also to bear the future of the union. Scots are not happy and will not accept it. N. Ireland loses alot and the possibility is very high to follow Scots. This disease may also infect Wales in future.

Many Brexiteers have realised their mistake. Many contacted officials to change their vote and some voted in protest thinking it would not make difference because BRemain would win. This includes HRH MP Boris Johnson. On the Friday morning after the outcome of the referendum UK Trump, sorry I mean Nigel Farage, was the only jubilant one. His mouth was open as wide as a dark cave. But HRH MP Boris Johnson came out very late to speak. When he came out, I didn't see a shred of happiness on his face. When he spoke, he was trying a sort of damage control exercise. Yesterday he didn't came to Parliament to participate in Brexit debate. We have to bear in mind because of his good job while he was London Mayor, and because of his personality he has become a cult. Because of that a lot of people when voted Brexit, were voting for him, not for Brexit. On BBC debate on the last day of campaign, he was cheered like a celebrity like Elton Johnes.

 

[quikshop]

Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon,

I hope all your analysis are correct and Brexit becomes a bless for this country. But unfortunately all signs indicate the opposite way. We have to bear in mind it will be very hard for us without EU, that is a fact but not the same thing on EU without us. I hope I am wrong. The reaction in EU seems to be hard. Now even they threaten the use of English as one of EU official languages. We have also to bear the future of the union. Scots are not happy and will not accept it. N. Ireland loses alot and the possibility is very high to follow Scots. This disease may also infect Wales in future.

Many Brexiteers have realised their mistake. Many contacted officials to change their vote and some voted in protest thinking it would not make difference because BRemain would win. This includes HRH MP Boris Johnson. On the Friday morning after the outcome of the referendum UK Trump, sorry I mean Nigel Farage, was the only jubilant one. His mouth was open as wide as a dark cave. But HRH MP Boris Johnson came out very late to speak. When he came out, I didn't see a shred of happiness on his face. Yesterday he didn't came to Parliament to participate in Brexit debate. We have to bear in mind because of his good job while he was London Mayor, and because of his personality he has become a cult. Because of that a lot of people when voted Brexit, were voting for him, not for Brexit. On BBC debate on the last day of campaign, he was cheered like a celebrity like Elton Johons.

What a lot of tripe.

 

[vvaannmmaann]

From the Express on Saturday

Germany, USA and Canada ALL say they want special trade deals with post-Brexit Britain
://www.express.co.uk/finance/city/683117/US-and-Canada-lead-promises-to-maintain-trade-relations-with-Britain-outside-the-EU

 

[Paul Norman]

We are all wasting our time second guessing stuff about which we know little.

We have a new situation. No one knows how this will pan out, and all guesses are interesting, but still guesses. My own opinion - equally to be caveated with my lack of actual knowledge - is that we are wise to take our time. A LOT of planning needs to happen, because the moment we formally invoke the article the meter starts. Done well, planned well, it is likely to end up with a better outcome for the UK.

The EU will obviously, and correctly, be pushing hard for the best deal for the EU. We, obviously, and correctly, will be pushing hard for the best deal for the UK.

The hope comes from this. After a period of calm reflection - which has not really started yet - both sides will discover there is a fair bit of overlap between those two aims.

 

[Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon]

We are all wasting our time second guessing stuff about which we know little.

We have a new situation. No one knows how this will pan out, and all guesses are interesting, but still guesses. My own opinion - equally to be caveated with my lack of actual knowledge - is that we are wise to take our time. A LOT of planning needs to happen, because the moment we formally invoke the article the meter starts. Done well, planned well, it is likely to end up with a better outcome for the UK.

The EU will obviously, and correctly, be pushing hard for the best deal for the EU. We, obviously, and correctly, will be pushing hard for the best deal for the UK.

The hope comes from this. After a period of calm reflection - which has not really started yet - both sides will discover there is a fair bit of overlap between those two aims.

Yep - All 100% guess work at this point and pointless - We haven't picked the team to deal with this yet - We havent even picked the PM to pick the team to deal with all of this yet.

On the facts front we are not even seeing the tip of the iceberg yet

There is a real danger with all this doom and gloom talk of talking ourselves in to deeper trouble. We have done stupid things like talking ourselves in to recession before.

The doom and gloom about "possible" future scenarios that have zero indication of happening, is very loud in the digital world and other countries are listening. If they were to look in on half of this they would think Scotland is putting Hadrians wall back up, our business owners are begging in the streets and bankers are throwing themselves off tall buildings. If this is the image we portray this is the image the world will believe

 

[Gecko001]

Maybe the continent just does not want to interfere with our problems. After all there is a major constitutional crisis in the UK and nobody knows what will happen. There is also a problem with the leadership of the two main parties, but to the rest of the Europe that is pretty much irrelevant. They see a country which is probably going to split apart. Scotland wants UDI and Northern Ireland might be in trouble as well. The last country that I can remember splitting apart is Sudan when it split into North and South Sudan.

 

[MBE1]

Many Brexiteers have realised their mistake. Many contacted officials to change their vote and some voted in protest thinking it would not make difference because BRemain would win. This includes HRH MP Boris Johnson. .

What a load of tripe again, what planet do you live on? A couple of twitter/social media comments reported as fact, Lily Allen has now said she is excited at the idea of leaving, after advising people to stay.

So what? There will be several thousand weak willed individuals who chop and change their minds like the wind, but that is no basis to suggest MANY BREXITEERS have realised their mistake.

Since the vote was for leave, it seems you are the one who has made the mistake.

 

[threenine]

We haven't picked the team to deal with this yet

As long as Hodgson has no say, We should be OK. Chris Coleman might have a better idea

 

[KM-Tiger]

As long as Hodgson has no say

I gather he has already been recruited by the govt as an expert in how to get out of Europe rapidly.

 

[billmccallum1957]

My long standing joke since the England team lost.... Nobody told the players "that's not what they meant when they voted to leave the EU"

 

[garyk]

I gather he has already been recruited by the govt as an expert in how to get out of Europe rapidly.

Brilliant!