Not 100% sure what marketing is, or how to do it?

[AllUpHere]

As some of you will know, I'm a marketing and business development consultant who specialises in speaking to business owners just before they embark on any kind of marketing activity, to make sure they base all of their decisions and activities on a sound strategy. As such, I speak to many hundreds of small business owners every year. If I could pinpoint one topic of conversation that gets clients thinking about marketing in the right way, more than any other topic, it's this.

Marketing is everything you do. There isn't a single thing you do in your business that shouldn't be thought of as marketing (or shouldn't at least be considered from a marketing perspective).

If you are struggling to understand exactly what marketing is or how it should be used, try thinking of it like this. It shouldn't take you long at all to have a much better understanding of what marketing is, and how you should be incorporating in into absolutely everything you do.

Marketing isn't another name for advertising, or a way in which you find clients (although obviously, if done well marketing will provide you with as many clients as you could ever need). Marketing is a process you use to tailor every part of your business to both meet the needs of your target market, and also to maximise your profits. Whilst I'm on the subject, it's also the way in which you choose who your target markets are in the first place, and also how you find out what their needs are.

I hope some of you find the above thought provoking.

 

[fisicx]

Good post.

The other thing is the underestimation many people and businesses have of the amount of effort marketing can take. There are innumerable threads on UKBF from people struggling to get sales but when questioned about how much makering they have done if often reduces to posing on facebook and tweeting.

Markering can be 90% of everything you do. The other 10% is processing the enquiries.

 

[AllUpHere]

Good post.

The other thing is the underestimation many people and businesses have of the amount of effort marketing can take. There are innumerable threads on UKBF from people struggling to get sales but when questioned about how much makering they have done if often reduces to posing on facebook and tweeting.

Markering can be 90% of everything you do. The other 10% is processing the enquiries.

Thanks. Yep, completely agree with the comments above.

The only thing I would add is that even dealing with your enquiries should be thought of as marketing too.

 

[StevePoster]

What i noticed in marketing as one of the most important factor to provide effective results is to know what you are doing in your field and not just the advertising stuff that is always the face of marketing field.

 

[ParcelBright]

You could say we live in a marketing economy in 2015... mining, industry and retail are all well established and stable industries - while marketing continues to evolve faster on a daily basis.

The problems we solve in business today are mainly marketing related.

 

[JamesMason67]

Marketing in my opinion, and as AllUpHere says is everything you do in your business. Absolutely everything.

From the first telephone conversation to completion of works is all marketing. If you are at all sensible you will be punctual, polite, friendly, professional, dependable etc. etc. Why? Because you are that kind of person? Hopefully. But the driving force behind these qualities is that you want these people to buy from you. Or buy more from you, which is the same reason you buy an ad, build a website..whatever. To coax people to buy and keep buying.

Getting the sale is only the first part of marketing, particularly in a service industry

Running a great business and marketing are one and the same. My couple o' pennies.
James

 

[Jennie@FreeAgent]

Great post! I'm sure this will get a lot of people thinking. This quote "it's also the way in which you choose who your target markets are in the first place, and also how you find out what their needs are." is particularly interesting and definitely something we should all consider more.

 

[NickGrogan]

Marketing is everything you do. There isn't a single thing you do in your business that shouldn't be thought of as marketing (or shouldn't at least be considered from a marketing perspective).

I'm going to disagree on this one.

Branding is everything you do. There isn't a single thing you do in your business that shouldn't be thought of as branding (or shouldn't at least be considered from a branding perspective).

Marketing is what you do when your product/service isn't profitable enough per sale to justify a sales force.

A sales force is what you use when the product/service isn't profitable enough to justify the directors/founders selling the product/service.

At the other end, viral marketing is what you use where your product isn't profitable enough to justify marketing.

 

[AllUpHere]

I'm going to disagree on this one.

Branding is everything you do. There isn't a single thing you do in your business that shouldn't be thought of as branding (or shouldn't at least be considered from a branding perspective).

Marketing is what you do when your product/service isn't profitable enough per sale to justify a sales force.

A sales force is what you use when the product/service isn't profitable enough to justify the directors/founders selling the product/service.

At the other end, viral marketing is what you use where your product isn't profitable enough to justify marketing.

Hi Nick.

Thanks for your comments. They are very interesting.

I think we run the risk of simply arguing over semantics regarding what marketing actually is though.

I would argue that without marketing you wouldn't even have a product or service to sell, and you certainly wouldn't have any idea who you were going to sell them to if you did.

I'd also argue that using a sales team is simply what you have to do if your marketing strategy isn't strong enough to sell the product without them.

 

[NickGrogan]

You can of course define marketing however you want, however if you define it too broadly it tends to lose focus.

"I would argue that without marketing you wouldn't even have a product or service to sell, and you certainly wouldn't have any idea who you were going to sell them to if you did. "

As could an operations expert, logistics expert, hr expert and so on. In the same way a surgeon will always want to operate, etc.

There are plenty of businesses that work very well without significant/any marketing.

"I'd also argue that using a sales team is simply what you have to do if your marketing strategy isn't strong enough to sell the product without them."

Could you give some examples of high value products that are sold by marketing alone?

 

[AllUpHere]

There are plenty of businesses that work very well without significant/any marketing.

There are many businesses that think they don't do any (or much) marketing, but that's simply because they don't know that what they are doing is marketing.

A business that successfully designs a product or service for a specific profitable target market, and tailors that product or service to meet the needs of the market to such an extent that they don't need to 'promote' it, is a really good definition of a company 'doing marketing'.

 

[NickGrogan]

There are many businesses that think they don't do any (or much) marketing, but that's simply because they don't know that what they are doing is marketing.

A business that successfully designs a product or service for a specific profitable target market, and tailors that product or service to meet the needs of the market to such an extent that they don't need to 'promote' it, is a really good definition of a company 'doing marketing'.

Could you give an example of a company that's done this? I can't think of any...

 

[AllUpHere]

Could you give an example of a company that's done this? I can't think of any...

Are you referring to my first or second paragraph?

I'm confused as you said in your earlier post that you know of lots of businesses who do well without marketing (using your definition of marketing), but now can't think of any.

Are you asking me to provide an example of a business who meets the description in my second paragraph?

 

[NickGrogan]

Happy to provide examples of businesses that don't use marketing, so I was referring to your second paragraph.

 

[AllUpHere]

Happy to provide examples of businesses that don't use marketing, so I was referring to your second paragraph.

Thanks for clarifying.

How about an example from this forum? @cjd of Voipfone is fairly well known here for not advertising his services, instead preferring to concentrate on working out exactly what his target market wants, and then finding ways to use the technology at his disposal to offer a service that is perfect for their needs. I think I am right in thinking that nearly all of his clients come from referrals (as well as a few from his posts on here obviously).

I'd be very interested in your examples of businesses that don't use marketing. I'd be very surprised if any of them actually exist without using marketing (rather than simply without advertising or promotional marketing).

 

[NickGrogan]

The same @cjd that has posted over 14,000 times, that has entered and won numerous competitions, which he lists in his signature, that has very active twitter, facebook and google+ accounts, that runs a support forum and blog along with his website? That has setup a wikipedia page? That has case studies on clients websites, that has articles in the Guardian and other news papers. That has articles on Uswitch and seems to posts to most business forums? Is that the one?

I'd use @cjd as an example of someone who markets a lot and does a very good job of it.

Example no marketing businesses.

My parents run a small farm, breeding lambs. They hire a ram from a friend, fatten up the resulting lambs until they reach an appropriate age/weight and then sell them at auction. The price is dictated by the age, weight and condition of the lambs. Repeat annually.

Simple, profitable business, no marketing.

 

[AllUpHere]

The same @cjd that has posted over 14,000 times, that has entered and won numerous competitions, which he lists in his signature, that has very active twitter, facebook and google+ accounts, that runs a support forum and blog along with his website? That has setup a wikipedia page? That has case studies on clients websites, that has articles in the Guardian and other news papers. That has articles on Uswitch and seems to posts to most business forums? Is that the one?

I'd use @cjd as an example of someone who markets a lot and does a very good job of it.

That's my point. All of the things he does are marketing by my definition, but many would argue that he does not market his services (by the very popular definition of marketing that refuses to make a distinction between marketing and advertising).

I copied this directly from his website.

'We do not advertise, do not resell and do not have a sales force. We grow by word of mouth and reputation alone.'

As I said at the start of this conversation, we are still just going round in circles because there is no one fixed 'definition of marketing'.

 

[cjd]

We don't advertise - never have - and we don't have any sales people. We don't have a marketing budget either. We spend a lot of time on in-house SEO so people can find us from organic searches. We also use PR from time to time; in-house mostly though we did get professional help when we won the Queen's Award. (We take a lot of trouble with awards - they're free PR, but you have to be good at what you do first to win them.)

But primarily, we regard our products and services and our customer support as real marketing - it speaks for itself, it doesn't need to be spun. So we spend 12% of our gross turnover on R&D and 77% of our staff are directly customer facing.

 

[AllUpHere]

We don't advertise - never have - and we don't have any sales people. We don't have a marketing budget either. We spend a lot of time on in-house SEO so people can find us from organic searches. We also use PR from time to time; in-house mostly though we did get professional help when we won the Queen's Award. (We take a lot of trouble with awards - they're free PR, but you have to be good at what you do first to win them.)

But primarily, we regard our products and services and our customer support as real marketing - it speaks for itself, it doesn't need to be spun. So we spend 12% of our gross turnover on R&D and 77% of our staff are directly customer facing.

It would seem that your 'marketing success' has come mainly from efforts that would not traditionally be seen as marketing, for example putting the effort into finding out what services would best meet the needs of your clients, then using R&D to develop and deliver award winning services.

 

[AllUpHere]

Example no marketing businesses.

My parents run a small farm, breeding lambs. They hire a ram from a friend, fatten up the resulting lambs until they reach an appropriate age/weight and then sell them at auction. The price is dictated by the age, weight and condition of the lambs. Repeat annually.

Simple, profitable business, no marketing.

That's a good example of a business which need not do any advertising, but could certainly gain from thinking of many of the things it does from a marketing perspective. For example, when choosing which Ram to use, I'm sure they look for one which will give the offspring more desirable or 'marketable' characteristics.

 

[NickGrogan]

That's a good example of a business which need not do any advertising, but could certainly gain from thinking of many of the things it does from a marketing perspective. For example, when choosing which Ram to use, I'm sure they look for one which will give the offspring more desirable or 'marketable' characteristics.

Not really, sheep have been very selectively bred for a long time, so there is not that much variation from one ram or ewe to another, and the impact on selling price would be/is negligible.

 

[NickGrogan]

We don't have a marketing budget either.

The forums and blogs don't run themselves, and your company is very active on social media and a huge range of forums, none of which are free. You may not label it as a marketing budget, but the costs are still there.

 

[NickGrogan]

As I said at the start of this conversation, we are still just going round in circles because there is no one fixed 'definition of marketing'.

You started the conversation with two definitions:

"Marketing is everything you do. There isn't a single thing you do in your business that shouldn't be thought of as marketing (or shouldn't at least be considered from a marketing perspective)."

"Marketing is a process you use to tailor every part of your business to both meet the needs of your target market, and also to maximise your profits. "

The first one I disagree with, the second is not far off of the normal
definition

 

[cjd]

The forums and blogs don't run themselves, and your company is very active on social media and a huge range of forums, none of which are free. You may not label it as a marketing budget, but the costs are still there.

Sure, we do day-to-day social marketing - but it costs very little, it's all internal and just part of what we do. If we stopped doing it, it wouldn't save a penny. I won't be charging my company to make this post on overtime for example. If someone tweets something nice about us tonight, my partner will spend 5 seconds re-tweeting it. It's trivial stuff for us - as is setting the things up to start with.

But my point is not that what we do costs nothing, it's that we don't budget for it - unlike what we do with R&D for example. All the companies I've ever worked for set aside a marketing budget and break it down into sub-budgets - sales, events, campaigns, SEO, google ads, PR etc etc and it's usually a big chunk of money which is also very difficult to establish even works - and in my experience rarely does. It's treated as a separate entity to the business. For us it's integral; part of the product.

 

[NickGrogan]

There are many businesses that think they don't do any (or much) marketing, but that's simply because they don't know that what they are doing is marketing.

A business that successfully designs a product or service for a specific profitable target market, and tailors that product or service to meet the needs of the market to such an extent that they don't need to 'promote' it, is a really good definition of a company 'doing marketing'.

Any other examples? @cjd clearly doesn't fit the description.

 

[GOSW]

Hi, im one of those people that just doesnt get marketing. I really dont understand how "Marketing in in everything you do" HOW?

Can you explain marketing in very simple examples?

I hear about marketing and SEO, networking, advertising, branding, making an identity etc etc, but with all this information it goes straight over my head and also stops being information and becomes blar, blar, blar, blar.

Every person i have spoken to so far has given me a very wooly example of marketing, so i ask what is it?

thx

 

[cjd]

[

Every person i have spoken to so far has given me a very wooly example of marketing, so i ask what is it?

That's because marketing IS woolly

The easily defined bits of marketing are branding, advertising, sales and PR.

Slightly less obviously is marcoms (marketing communications) - which can be obvious stuff like direct mail and cold calling, to not so obvious stuff like using the right kind of telephone number ;-) and having standard ways of greeting customers.

The reason why people say that marketing is everything you do is to get people to realise that it's foolish to stick a label on the 12 guys in 'marketing' and think that only they do it. It doesn't matter how clever your marketing guys are at putting out a message, if your product is cr@p, delivered late and installed badly by grubby 'couldn't-give-a-tos' engineers, it won't repeat sell. Customers form their image of your company as a compound picture of every contact they have with it and image is part of your brand.

Odd then that so many large companies with important brands outsource their customer contact centres to people in far away lands - despite knowing that customers hate this. Go figure.

 

[AllUpHere]

The reason why people say that marketing is everything you do is to get people to realise that it's foolish to stick a label on the 12 guys in 'marketing' and think that only they do it. It doesn't matter how clever your marketing guys are at putting out a message, if your product is cr@p, delivered late and installed badly by grubby 'couldn't-give-a-tos' engineers, it won't repeat sell. Customers form their image of your company as a compound picture of every contact they have with it and image is part of your brand.

Whilst we are on the subject, I had a bit of a problem with my Voipfone yesterday so jumped on your website and used the instant messenger to get some help. I spoke to James and he logged in to my computer and router remotely, and sorted me out. He's a credit to you.

 

[cjd]

Lovely, thanks, I'll let him know.

 

[NickGrogan]

Every person i have spoken to so far has given me a very wooly example of marketing, so i ask what is it?

Marketing is a fairly vague term, with different sectors defining it to suit their needs.

My definition:

Marketing is the things that a company does to make itself attractive to it's marketplace.

Depending on your sector this could be a flashy website, your store front, the way you dress, how you answer the phone, the signs on your van, the kind of staff you employ, SEO, branding, PR and so on.

All of these things are designed to appeal to your marketplace, which is why it's different for everyone - your customers are not my target customers, etc.

Sales is the things that a company does to appeal to individual customers.

Again this depends on your sector and customer value, but could include a sales force, PPC, advertising (although this could be in marketing too, it depends on the goal), free samples, direct mail, exhibitions, etc.

All these things are designed to get individual customers to buy from you.

 

[RakeMark]

Every person i have spoken to so far has given me a very wooly example of marketing, so i ask what is it?

There is no single definition, there is no consensus on what it should be. This definition by All Up Here is good.

Marketing is everything you do. There isn't a single thing you do in your business that shouldn't be thought of as marketing

This is Jay Conrad Levinson's definition: "Marketing is every bit of contact your company has with anyone in the outside world. Every bit of contact. That means a lot of marketing opportunities."

He continue's in his book,
"The meaning is clear: marketing includes the name of your business, the determination of whether you will be selling a product or service, the method of manufacture of servicing, the color, size, and shape of your product, the packaging, the location of your business, the advertising, the public relations, website, branding, email signature, the voice-mail message on your machine, the sales presentation, the telephone inquiries, the sales training, the problem-solving, the growth plan, the referral plan, the people who represent you, yourself, and your follow-up. Marketing includes your idea for your brand, your service, your attitude, and the passion you bring to your business. If you gather from this that marketing is a complex business you're right."

If you read the chapters 1 & 2 from Guerilla Marketing on Amazon for free I really think that you would see that as time well spent. To explain what marketing is in a forum post is quite a challenge.

Marketing is the things that a company does to make itself attractive to it's marketplace.

I don't necessarily disagree with this definition (mainly because I don't have one of my own, I rely on the great minds of others before me), but I think that its probably incomplete. Certainly the aim of marketing activities is to make your products attractive but whether that's a complete definition? I'd need some convincing.

Good conversation though, lots of great ideas, thanks everyone.

 

[webboy]

Cjd can i ask a question (very curious)
What would you do if a competitor came along with a plan if of action would you still not think about a marking plan?

I find having a business with a marketing plan is like going to Tesco's without a shopping list (not directed at you Cjd)
that just the way our marketing establishment thinks.

 

[cjd]

Cjd can i ask a question (very curious)
What would you do if a competitor came along with a plan if of action would you still not think about a marking plan?

I assume all my competitors have marketing plans....I'll think about one when/if my growth slows.

I find having a business with a marketing plan is like going to Tesco's without a shopping list (not directed at you Cjd)
that just the way our marketing establishment thinks.

Yup, the advertising industry needs you to keep thinking that way ;-)

 

[Marked]

As someone who has just moved into the world of marketing, i found the OP and the discussion extremely useful so to everyone who contributed, thank you.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

My parents run a small farm, breeding lambs. They hire a ram from a friend, fatten up the resulting lambs until they reach an appropriate age/weight and then sell them at auction. The price is dictated by the age, weight and condition of the lambs. Repeat annually.

Simple, profitable business, no marketing.

That's Baa-keting. I'll get me coat

 

[webgeek]

Sorry, but I just can't buy into the 'marketing is everything you do' mantra.

Cleaning the staff loo? Data entering/bookkeeping ledger entries? Face to face sales meeting?

Even with a massive stretch, imagination out the wazoo and Carol Vorderman helping out, that just doesn't add up.

People aren't in business to market their business. They're in business to collect money for the products/services they offer.

It's as easy as ABC - Always Be Closing. If you're not looking for sales opportunities, you're putting the cart before the horse.

Marketing is a key part of the recipe, of course. But there's more money earned by spending time selling things than there is marketing things. Just check the top line of any P&L and ask what department pulls in that revenue. S A L E S <- Vorderman for the win!

 

[cjd]

Just check the top line of any P&L and ask what department pulls in that revenue. S A L E S <- Vorderman for the win!

Hmmmm....so we don't have any sales people, yet we'll do £5m this year. How does that work then?

 

[AllUpHere]

Just check the top line of any P&L and ask what department pulls in that revenue. S A L E S <- Vorderman for the win!

If that was supposed to be a serious point, I think you might want to hop over to the accounting forum and ask a few questions.

 

[Scott@KarmaContent]

The problem with marketing is that it's an industry that seems to attract a lot of bullshitters and chancers. I've worked in marketing and sales for a number of years and I've worked with a lot of good marketers who really know their stuff. But now and again you'll come across some complete idiot who disguises the fact that they are totally clueless by regurgitating nonsense phrases that don't actually mean anything.

Marketing is a lot simpler and more straightforward than this minority of marketers would have you believe.

 

[AllUpHere]

The problem with marketing is that it's an industry that seems to attract a lot of ********ters and chancers. I've worked in marketing and sales for a number of years and I've worked with a lot of good marketers who really know their stuff. But now and again you'll come across some complete idiot who disguises the fact that they are totally clueless by regurgitating nonsense phrases that don't actually mean anything.

Marketing is a lot simpler and more straightforward than this minority of marketers would have you believe.

Exactly. I tell clients on a daily basis that a good proportion of marketing is nothing more than common sense.

A good chunk of what I do day to day is simply telling people how to gain an advantage and make more money. It's no more complicated than that.