Why are managers not recruiting 16 - 24 year olds?

[Young Recruit]

Hi everybody,

Youth unemployment is rising in the UK and I would like to ask employers and potential employers for their opinions about why this is.

I look forward to your response.

James.

 

[tony84]

Honest answer is theyre useless in the main.

I used to own a pub, older women would see an empty glass on the table and think "its my job to clean that so i will go and get it", an 18 year old will be checking their phone, talking to people, staring out the window anything but using common sense and pulling their finger out.

Older people have experience, know what a bit of work is, generally have decent customer servce skills and most importantly - common sense. 18 year olds dont.

 

[mconridge]

We are, but the majority of applications from this age group are poor.

Currently for an average level job in our warehouse or office we receive around 100 applicants so the cover email is really important. Unfortunately these letters are so often full of glaring errors and mistakes and this puts us off.

 

[Ned Kelly]

Honest answer is theyre useless in the main.

I used to own a pub, older women would see an empty glass on the table and think "its my job to clean that so i will go and get it", an 18 year old will be checking their phone, talking to people, staring out the window anything but using common sense and pulling their finger out.

Older people have experience, know what a bit of work is, generally have decent customer servce skills and most importantly - common sense. 18 year olds dont.

Normally where a good Manager comes in handy, to train them properly instead of moaning about it, IMO. But I think I used the dirty word "train"

But the landlord will be happy when these "useless" 18 year olds are spending there dole money in their pub.

I worked in a pub from an early age. Started by bottling up, changing barrells , stocking up the crisps, basically anything I was asked to do. I was SLOWLY given responsibilty and a chance.

The times they are a changing.

 

[Dominic Taylor]

We are, but there are an awful lot of plain bad applicants but mainly they are due to organisations which effectively sell qualifications and don't, er, teach them.

 

[Richie N]

I don't think it's a case of employers not wanting to employ younger people, it's probably a case of them not bothering to apply for jobs in the first place, or not turning up to interviews that have been arranged.

 

[10032012]

We are, but the majority of applications from this age group are poor.

Currently for an average level job in our warehouse or office we receive around 100 applicants so the cover email is really important. Unfortunately these letters are so often full of glaring errors and mistakes and this puts us off.

cover email not good?

I get so many applications falling under the following categories:-

1) slide a CV in an envelope and send... (these get shredded instantly... when you got a few current vacancies.. do I ring up and ask? No.. too time consuming... not enough effort on their part)

2) brief emails like "Hello, I would like to apply for the job advertised, here is my CV" (not just impolite and not much effort but which vacancy? Did they even read the job advert?)

It is no longer the case of the few no shows at job interviews... I had one candidate last week try to negotiate terms... "Sorry I am unable to do that day" (this was after confirming the interview) followed by "Can we meet up in town?" To cut a long story short, I wasn't sure if I was arranging a job interview or arranging a semi-date...

...Oh and yeah, she was 18 and glued to her phone. She rapidly replied to every email. Seems she agreed to accepting an invite for interview, then decided it was better for her to make other plans then cancel with 20 minutes notice. No wonder she is unemployed.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

The huge advantage that older folk, have is that they simply want to do a job of work and earn a respectable wage. Youngsters on the other hand want to aspire, be the next big player, earn more without working harder and whilst everybody moves on at some stage the feeling that you are just a stop gap is evident at every interview.

 

[internetspaceships]

Ive taken on 5 people in that age group in the last 3 months.

 

[Vectis]

I don't think schools, colleges or universities prepare their students for the world of work and, to a lot of them, it comes as a complete shock. Many can't adapt or can't adapt quickly enough.

A good percentage of youngsters also have no idea how to prepare themselves for interview. Surely part of the role of the education system is to prepare people for work - certainly it should be at higher education levels.

 

[andygambles]

I don't think schools, colleges or universities prepare their students for the world of work and, to a lot of them, it comes as a complete shock. Many can't adapt or can't adapt quickly enough.

A good percentage of youngsters also have no idea how to prepare themselves for interview. Surely part of the role of the education system is to prepare people for work - certainly it should be at higher education levels.

I completely agree with this. But think it has been the case for a long time. I started working wen I was 15 for the local Tescos as a shelf stacker on a Friday and Saturday night. I firmly believe this is what provided me with the work ethic. I understood that the more I worked the more money I had.

When I left school and would meet up with friends they would be moaning about what was expected of them and how "different it was".

I have seen it continue to this day, in some cases a bit worse. Leaving FE with a believe they know everything and are more important than the job. Not understanding the real world just the ideology preached in education.

I do not want to tarnish everyone as I have also come across some very hard working individuals. They tend to be the "underachievers" as labelled by the academics.

 

[BusinessDeli]

Young 'uns aren't given the opportunity of responsibility at a young enough age anymore as people perceive them to be witless and without experience. They, generally, cannot have experience at that age so that's unfair but personality or work ethic is built over time. If this is their 1st job then they have nothing to base it on.
I was pushing luggage at Butlins when I was 13; it was unpaid so had to impress the customer (as much as you could while lugging bags about!) and rely on tips. Started a regular Saturday job as early as possible and carried on from there.
Current rules work against giving the teenagers enough to do.
And then you have the question of inspiring them to do it - would they, if given the opportunity?! I did it as I saw my cousin (6 years older) making some relatively decent cash and i wanted a bit of that. Only way to get it was to earn it.

 

[webgeek]

The reason we tend to look at potential employees with experience is because of what that experience brings.

The first decade or so of being an employee involves a lot of painful lessons, both for the employee and the employer. This is the time where commercial awareness is hopefully learned. There's a lot of 'common sense' that is acquired during that timeframe as well.

In short, I'd rather pay someone with experience more, knowing they've learned those lessons, and acquired that business acumen, than pay the price of that learning out of my own pocket.

 

[Moneyman]

very few can write a letter to a decent standard and very few have the nous to work out how to do it. Motivation seems to be lacking somehow.

 

[businessfunding]

There are several reasons I see for this trend, which range from political to personal:

1. Tony Bliar set the goal that half of young people should go to University. There are 2 inevitable consequences of this - 1. The bar to entry must be lowered so a degree will be less respected. 2. There will be an increase in graduate unemployment (And unfortunately it is tough for a graduate to understand that they need to start at the bottom).

2. In times of recession, employers go for absolute fit rather than potential, which mans that experience counts for a lot.

3. Sloppy presentation - 'press button' applications or generic unfocused CVS. he more computer-dependent we become the greater this problem will be.

 

[Philip Hoyle]

For me it's the lack of basic numeracy and literacy skills, even from people with good grades at GCSE and A level.

For example, Maths A grade students who can't work out how much VAT is included if they spend £2.40 on something where VAT is charged at 20% - far too many answer 48p - that kind of thing should be so basic to someone who manages an A grade in Maths should it not?

Same with literacy, again those with good grades can't set out a letter properly, don't know how many days in the second month of the year, yet alone manage to spell it correctly.

When taking on a trainee, an employee expects to teach "the job", not have to go right back to teach such basics that should have been done by the school.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Young 'uns aren't given the opportunity of responsibility at a young enough age anymore as people perceive them to be witless and without experience. They, generally, cannot have experience at that age so that's unfair but personality or work ethic is built over time. If this is their 1st job then they have nothing to base it on.
I was pushing luggage at Butlins when I was 13; it was unpaid so had to impress the customer (as much as you could while lugging bags about!) and rely on tips. Started a regular Saturday job as early as possible and carried on from there.
Current rules work against giving the teenagers enough to do.
And then you have the question of inspiring them to do it - would they, if given the opportunity?! I did it as I saw my cousin (6 years older) making some relatively decent cash and i wanted a bit of that. Only way to get it was to earn it.

The work ethic has been systematically removed by us parents.

Back in the day it was an occasional pleasure to be allowed to have a bottle of squash off the milkman. Now the cupboards full of it. Back in the day we would wash cars to get enough money to go swimming. On a good day we'd have enough money for a sausage roll and the bus home. Now we drive our kids 25 miles to the leisure pool and fill them with McDonalds on the way home at our expense.

Why work when you know that the latest iphone will be yours when Christmas comes around.:|

 

[easiprint]

We've been looking for an apprentice for our office work. Had about 6 applicants in the last two months, every single one of them completely unable to spell or string a sentence together. Most young people are unemployable, thanks to the dire state of our education system.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

It depends on the job roles. Many of the more menial jobs are taken up by younger people, but when it comes to real skill based work, they either need education or experience, which are obviously both lacking at that age.

The youngest people (16 to 18) simply haven't had the time to gain experience or be trained in a skill. The older people only just have enough experience or they've recently came out of further education such as university.

The issue then comes down to pitting these young people against older people. If you take an example job which both age brackets could do, such as being a receptionist, the older candidates are more likely to win every time with far more experience, more confidence and matured social skills - even if the work ethic of the two age groups is the same.

 

[deniser]

It's strange because not that long ago, the opposite was happening and older (more expensive) employees were moved out to be replaced by younger (cheaper) ones.

Could the difference be that management is getting older because of later retirement ages so that the older amongst the workforce are no longer perceived to be as old as they used to be?

When I first worked in the city, there were very few people in my firm over 50; now workers in their 60s are quite commonplace. I am guessing that age discrimination laws may also have come into play somewhere along the line and because of the rise in retirement age, there must be a bottleneck with older people not leaving and making room for younger entrants.

The people who work for me have all been under 25.

 

[webgeek]

More likely that in dire economic times, less managers are willing to take the risks that are associated with hiring inexperienced staff.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

It's strange because not that long ago, the opposite was happening and older (more expensive) employees were moved out to be replaced by younger (cheaper) ones.

Could the difference be that management is getting older because of later retirement ages so that the older amongst the workforce are no longer perceived to be as old as they used to be?

When I first worked in the city, there were very few people in my firm over 50; now workers in their 60s are quite commonplace. I am guessing that age discrimination laws may also have come into play somewhere along the line and because of the rise in retirement age, there must be a bottleneck with older people not leaving and making room for younger entrants.

The people who work for me have all been under 25.

Another problem is that the economy has influenced unemployment in all age ranges. The days of being able to secure a long-term career which is completely secure are long gone due to companies making cuts and even closing altogether.

Because of that, the 'employee market' has been suddenly flooded by plenty of older individuals who have lost their long-term jobs and will comfortably out-perform younger individuals on skills and experience when seeking new employment.

 

[Steve_g]

Its hard to find young people with the drive and enthusiasm to succeed in the chosen job.

I have seen a few kids who tick all the boxes but its hard work to keep them engages, the kind of young people i want to employ are the kind of young people who have such drive they want to constantly push forward and achieve new goals - something i can't always offer.

Generally the older generation are driven and content - a combination hard to fine - you find this especially with the over 60's.

Steve

 

[Talay]

..... When I first worked in the city, there were very few people in my firm over 50; now workers in their 60s are quite commonplace. I am guessing that age discrimination laws may also have come into play somewhere along the line and because of the rise in retirement age, there must be a bottleneck with older people not leaving and making room for younger entrants.

The people who work for me have all been under 25.

Why do people want or have to work longer ? Pensions. If you were an employee coming up to 50 a couple of decades ago, you would quite possibly be able to retire on near full pension, index linked for perpetuity. You would most likely have been in a final salary scheme, so that if you had reached your glass ceiling, there was little incentive to continue.

House prices and the cost of education also pay a huge part. In my time, outside the riches of Chelsea or Kensington, it was quite possible to expect a City worker to have a decent family house after a couple of trade ups. Now a 2 bed starter flat in Zone 1 can cost over half a million and a half decent family house runs well into seven figures, even City workers cannot reach that level early enough to pay it off before older age.

Educating kids was paid for by the government and then went to loans. Now kids need help from relatives to get started in life and with grandparents living longer, that means parents shouldering that responsibility.

 

[Talay]

For me it's the lack of basic numeracy and literacy skills, even from people with good grades at GCSE and A level.

For example, Maths A grade students who can't work out how much VAT is included if they spend £2.40 on something where VAT is charged at 20% - far too many answer 48p - that kind of thing should be so basic to someone who manages an A grade in Maths should it not?

Same with literacy, again those with good grades can't set out a letter properly, don't know how many days in the second month of the year, yet alone manage to spell it correctly.

When taking on a trainee, an employee expects to teach "the job", not have to go right back to teach such basics that should have been done by the school.

When I studied Maths and Further/Applied Maths at A Level, it was understood that you would have at least touched on calculus at O Level and those of us at the top end of the top set did.

However, as the desire for more passes became the number one focus, they had to water down the A Level because the kids weren't up to it. This then made undergraduate degree courses impossible because the kids didn't have the knowledge or were simply not bright enough to absorb it. Thus, universities ended up having to teach remedial mathematics to undergraduates because the school A Level qualifications were devalued.

Now you have to add stars to distinguish what the old "A" grade used to signify, the best of the best. Now a mere "A" is merely mediocre.

Bring on the Baccalaureate I say because the current qualifications have little value any more.

As for the Labour lunacy of half the country going to university, well, this ended up with one place offering a degree in kite flying I seem to recall. Unbelievable !

 

[bizrep103]

There are a lot of companies out there who are finding it really difficult to recruit people with the skills they need. This goes for professional services, sales, engineering and so on.
The only part of the market where there is over supply is things like bar work and simple customer facing jobs.
The reason for this is too difficult to explain here and its a society wide problem. Celebrity idolisation, reality stars and social media narcissism have all helped create a disconnected society where everyone strives to be famous or important in the eyes of the public.
The break up of the family unit that started in the 70's means we now have more dysfunctional people in society that didn't benefit from positive family roles models and on top of that you have a generation that benefited from their parents having a much easier life than their grand parents who would have lived through a world war.
Also no one seems prepared to work their way up from the shop floor to the boardroom.
There are far too many graduates and too few apprentices, too many people want to sit at a computer and not work with their hands. Furthermore we have people who want instant success and they want it now. I guess you could also include students having huge debt and a succession of incompetent governments that make short term policies pure based on the ability to get votes. I personally hold labour party responsible for the family unit break up. There was actually a time when parents were financially incentivised to split up during the tax credits era. I recall the party had a policy during the last ten years of buying votes and building up debt which we all now have to pay for.
As a director you would get a serious ban for that kind of misconduct but in government these people are still allowed to practice. Quite ironic really.

 

[internetspaceships]

The education system has been dumbed down. The 3 r's are not held in such a high esteem any more.

As mentioned bad attitude has grown due to the dumbing down of "entertainment" and the sensationalist media we have.

Kids idolise the wrong people. Nobodies with zero skills are now role models.

12 years of labour rule has bred an "entitlement" culture that effectively spans a complete generation of kids.

We have to pick up the pieces unfortunately.

Before long our people will be as stupid as most Americans- and that is a scarey thought.

 

[webgeek]

Before long our people will be as stupid as most Americans- and that is a scarey thought.

That day has come, long ago

 

[Philip Hoyle]

I think another factor is that the "structure" of businesses has changed over the last generation.

Go back 20/30 years and most businesses would be fairly large - by that I don't mean employing hundreds/thousands, but, say, most offices would need to employ say a typist, a receptionist, a book-keeper, etc. It was certainly the case in the first accountancy practice I worked in. We had a real hierarchy in both the general admin section and also the accounts/tax preparation section. Trainees could easily be absorbed because there were plenty of other staff at varying levels to provide training/support etc., and as such, trainees moved up through the firm. In my case, I was set to work sharing a large desk with a 50+ year old accounts clerk who'd spent a lifetime doing accounts and literally taught me all he knew over 2/3 years.

Nowadays, there are plenty of literally "one man" businesses. With basic desktop software, you can do you own admin, type your own letters, do your own accounts, etc. It's a VERY different scenario when a one-man firm wants to take on their first employee, because it's they themselves who'll have to do the training, i.e. making themselves busier and less productive which is, of course, counter-productive and costly in the short term. For smallest businesses, it's far better to take on more experienced/qualified staff (maybe part time or sub-contract) who can hit the ground running and add value to the business from day one.

I know for a fact that I couldn't have started and operated my accountancy practice as a "one man band", 20/30 years ago. I'd have needed a typist at the very least. Probably also a receptionist as there'd have been more phone calls coming in and client meetings, rather than today where most communication is via email.

 

[herewegoagain.]

There are a lot of companies out there who are finding it really difficult to recruit people with the skills they need. This goes for professional services, sales, engineering and so on.
The only part of the market where there is over supply is things like bar work and simple customer facing jobs.
The reason for this is too difficult to explain here and its a society wide problem. Celebrity idolisation, reality stars and social media narcissism have all helped create a disconnected society where everyone strives to be famous or important in the eyes of the public.
The break up of the family unit that started in the 70's means we now have more dysfunctional people in society that didn't benefit from positive family roles models and on top of that you have a generation that benefited from their parents having a much easier life than their grand parents who would have lived through a world war.
Also no one seems prepared to work their way up from the shop floor to the boardroom.
There are far too many graduates and too few apprentices, too many people want to sit at a computer and not work with their hands. Furthermore we have people who want instant success and they want it now. I guess you could also include students having huge debt and a succession of incompetent governments that make short term policies pure based on the ability to get votes. I personally hold labour party responsible for the family unit break up. There was actually a time when parents were financially incentivised to split up during the tax credits era. I recall the party had a policy during the last ten years of buying votes and building up debt which we all now have to pay for.
As a director you would get a serious ban for that kind of misconduct but in government these people are still allowed to practice. Quite ironic really.

Bizrep103 - I take my hat off to you - you have hit the nail on the head...

I took on an 18 year old, nice enough, came across well, - he was late the first 3 times in a row, at least 20 minutes each time - he only lived around the corner - he couldn't add up a basic cash tills takings - even with a calculator!! - I soon got rid!

On the opposite end end of the scale - I used to have a lady working for me in a previous business who was 72 !! she was a dynamo - brilliant with customers and other staff, put everyone else to shame she did !! - and only looked about 50 - she often said, she loved coming to work as she would have climbed the walls at home !! - younger people have no work ethic - and want something for nothing... never again.....

 

[AmbitiousMinds]

I don't think schools, colleges or universities prepare their students for the world of work and, to a lot of them, it comes as a complete shock. Many can't adapt or can't adapt quickly enough.

A good percentage of youngsters also have no idea how to prepare themselves for interview. Surely part of the role of the education system is to prepare people for work - certainly it should be at higher education levels.

I couldn't agree more. We do a lot of work with young adults in this field, equipping them with the knowledge and skills they need for employment, but it's not part of the national curriculum and only exists in FE and HE colleges in isolated pockets.

As a society, we need to do a lot more to improve education in this area.

 

[Fred_the_frog]

The work ethic has been systematically removed by us parents.

Back in the day it was an occasional pleasure to be allowed to have a bottle of squash off the milkman. Now the cupboards full of it. Back in the day we would wash cars to get enough money to go swimming. On a good day we'd have enough money for a sausage roll and the bus home. Now we drive our kids 25 miles to the leisure pool and fill them with McDonalds on the way home at our expense.

Why work when you know that the latest iphone will be yours when Christmas comes around.:|

Yes Yes Yes!!!

"What did you get for your birthday?" "I got a laptop and about £200 in cash from different people"

"What did you get for christmas?" "I mainly got cash, about £400"

"Who paid for your car and insurance?" "My Parents"

"Who pays for the petrol?" "My Parents"

"Do you get pocket money?" "Yeah, about £20 a week"

"Do you have a job?" "No- It's impossible to get a job"

(I must admit, I fall into some of the above things)

Why should I get a job? I've got money in my bank account from the years of pocket money i've saved up, and I don't have any regular payments at the moment, so I don't need much money to live.

I'm not trying to blame it all on parents, but if all the parents in the UK stopped giving their kids money and expensive things, then the unemployment rate would probably go down.

It's also not impossible to get a job, I tried last October and got one within a week. It was a rubbish retail job where they treated the employees like dirt because we were so easy to replace.

Someone said about collecting a glass at the bar. You can either stand there moaning about the 18 year old on their phone not collecting the glasses, or you could tell them to leave their phone in the back during working hours and tell them to collect the glasses. If you're having to tell someone to collect the glasses, maybe your training should be a little more detailed.

And yes, I've done numerous 'mock interviews' with teachers or other students at school, but it's not quite the same thing as when you're sitting face to face with someone you've never met who could give you a real life job.

 

[Ned Kelly]

Agree with the above, but we must remember the fact that the law changed with regard to children working. I know it was for their protection but it has made getting part time work extremely difficult. Everybody I knew had a Saturday job. These were valuable work place skills.

I left school at 16 and went straight into full time employment because I had gained the skills and knowledge needed, working a Saturday job for over 4 years. Oh, and I got a good reference too!

 

[simon field]

Yes Yes Yes!!!

"What did you get for your birthday?" "I got a laptop and about £200 in cash from different people"

"What did you get for christmas?" "I mainly got cash, about £400"

"Who paid for your car and insurance?" "My Parents"

"Who pays for the petrol?" "My Parents"

"Do you get pocket money?" "Yeah, about £20 a week"

"Do you have a job?" "No- It's impossible to get a job"

(I must admit, I fall into some of the above things)

Why should I get a job? I've got money in my bank account from the years of pocket money i've saved up

Because there's more to life than money and material possessions, that's why.

Self respect and a sense of value for instance?

 

[Luolou]

No-one ever seems to want to do the 'normal' jobs anymore....everyone is led to believe they are too good to do menial jobs,but somebody has to do them. Putting everyone through Higher education makes them all believe they are better than that, but if everyone goes to Uni we are left with a nation of youngsters who are all looking for "graduate" jobs, and that is totally unrealistic.

 

[internetspaceships]

No-one ever seems to want to do the 'normal' jobs anymore....everyone is led to believe they are too good to do menial jobs,but somebody has to do them. Putting everyone through Higher education makes them all believe they are better than that, but if everyone goes to Uni we are left with a nation of youngsters who are all looking for "graduate" jobs, and that is totally unrealistic.

Very true.

Not everyone is destined to be a high flyer and recent education has taught people to expect that they should be.

 

[Fred_the_frog]

Because there's more to life than money and material possessions, that's why.

Self respect and a sense of value for instance?

To have self respect now a days probably just means that you don't take drugs and participate in crime.

What I was getting at was that teenagers want the latest gadgets and stuff, so if parents wasn't to give them to their kids, then they'd have to go out and earn the money to get the gadgets themselves.

 

[internetspaceships]

To have self respect now a days probably just means that you don't take drugs and participate in crime.

What I was getting at was that teenagers want the latest gadgets and stuff, so if parents wasn't to give them to their kids, then they'd have to go out and earn the money to get the gadgets themselves.

There's plenty of people who take drugs and commit crime who have self respect.

Self respect also isn't based upon what gadgets you have.

 

[Fred_the_frog]

There's plenty of people who take drugs and commit crime who have self respect.

Self respect also isn't based upon what gadgets you have.

I didn't say self respect is about what gadgets you have, I was using that as an example of an incentive for people to work (If people want to get the gadgets, then they have to work to get the money for them)

 

[simon field]

To have self respect now a days probably just means that you don't take drugs and participate in crime.

What I was getting at was that teenagers want the latest gadgets and stuff, so if parents wasn't to give them to their kids, then they'd have to go out and earn the money to get the gadgets themselves.

Clever parents like me get their kids to do jobs for their money and gadgets, ie they can earn stuff.