Bank loan misselling scam

[Dr Law]

Has anyone been affected by the loan swap scandal that has broken in the news today? I hear over 50000 people might have been ripped off by the banks.

 

[10032012]

loan swap scandal?

 

[DeborahW]

Yes, my Father has been stung by the latest bankers scam. Been on phone all day but banging head against the wall with his bank. I would be pleased to hear what steps you or others are taking to deal with this. My dad's at the end of his tether now, it appears that he certainly has been mis-sold his loan ... from what I can gather, I think everyone has. Would be keen to hear from anyone who is taking this forward?

 

[leemason]

How many more of these misselling scandals do we need to for though before the Government realise that the whole banking system is rotten from top to bottom and needs to be completely dismantled and rebuild. Separating the retail from investments banks would be a good start. At least then if an investment bank fails they won't bring the whole of the rest of the system crashing down and we can simply leave them to fail!

I feel really sorry for anyone trapped in yet another round of misselling. If it's like all of the others they will pretend to do things about it but will not until they are forced to do so by the regulator.

 

[businessfunding]

Not sure what I object to more, the behaviour of the banks who seem to see themselves as invulnerable, or the inevitable ambulance-chasing that follows...

 

[leemason]

Not sure what I object to more, the behaviour of the banks who seem to see themselves as invulnerable, or the inevitable ambulance-chasing that follows...

I hate the ambulance chasing the happens all too often these days. However I'm willing to make an exception in this case. I wonder how many billions we will have to bail the banks out for next time (that's in about 2 weeks). The latest bailout (disguised as money to allow the banks to lend to small businesses - a shame and a very poor one at that) is £140bn. Banks have had to put billions aside for PPI misselling. I wonder how much they will have to put aside for this (and how much of that is OUR money not theirs)?

I bet there will still be bonuses all round next year!!!!

 

[businessfunding]

I hate the ambulance chasing the happens all too often these days. However I'm willing to make an exception in this case. I wonder how many billions we will have to bail the banks out for next time (that's in about 2 weeks). The latest bailout (disguised as money to allow the banks to lend to small businesses - a shame and a very poor one at that) is £140bn. Banks have had to put billions aside for PPI misselling. I wonder how much they will have to put aside for this (and how much of that is OUR money not theirs)?

I bet there will still be bonuses all round next year!!!!

In what way does a tsunami of compensation claims help this situation?

I'm not excusing or apologising for banks - heads should roll - but this does precisely nothing to ease the current situation.

I should also point out that banks haven't been given any money in the latest 'bailout' - money has been earmarked for small business as a direct subsidy.

 

[DeborahW]

I've spent the past 48 hours researching this and for anyone else in the same situation, my advice would be do not approach your bank. They will do nothing more than pay lip service and it seems that they are all working from the same script too. On the other hand the PPI people are out for their cut ... I have contacted one place who do not charge for the assessment ... will let you know if they're any better. One thug's for sure, accountants on the whole and solicitors too do not have a clue about where to start.

 

[Andrew46]

The FSA website has information regarding interest rate products and means of complaint:
http://www.fsa.gov.uk/library/other_publications/interest-rate-swaps

There is a website attracting much publicity (e.g. on LBC today):
http://bully-banks.co.uk/what-you-can-do/

There is a lot of noise out there and misconceptions about how these products work. What many businesses are in fact complaining about is that having hedged the interest rate, they cannot subsequently benefit from lower interest rates without paying a swingeing cost to exit the hedge contract.
Having said that, many businesses undeniably relied in good faith upon the bank's advice if not out and out pressure to take these products.

 

[DeborahW]

Thing is these were sold to small business, my father is not a large enterprise or anything close. He was mis-informed from the outset and the get-out fee is £200,000 how could anyone be expected to find that kind of money?

 

[Dr Law]

I have a large loan with one of the high st banks, and they want over £200k from me--even when i pay the loan off in full!

 

[DeborahW]

See what I mean! Amazing. Would be interested to know how you get on. I've just had an email back and my dad's case is being assessed as we speak.

 

[Dr Law]

I now know two others who are also paying massive interest rates--i am currently paying nearly 8%- i worked it out that i have overpaid around £300.000 over the past 5 years!!! On the tv today, they say the banks have to give everyone full compensation--i hope so!

 

[Dr Law]

When i spoke to my accountant, he said this was a regular banking scam--and my solicitor had never heard of this type of loan--'Interest Rate Swap'--who is helping your father??

 

[UKSBD]

I stopped trusting the banks after being talked in to going and having some free advice from what I assumed was going to be a member of the bank who was supposed to be looking after my interest.

Turns out they weren't a member of staff but a financial advisor who the bank gave a badge to which I can only assume was to make me think they worked at the bank, especially as the meeting was at the bank.

Rather than giving me advice I got the distinct impression they were just trying to sell me products/services that weren't best for me, but were the ones paying them the most commission.

Exactly the same thing happened a few years later, a meeting with my manager and another guy was there dressed exactly the same with the same banks badge and no mention that he was an independant adviser.

 

[Dr Law]

Same here--i feel so foolish--i believed my bank manager was being helpful.

 

[10032012]

How much more of this Government and the Banks etc can we really take?

Its not just this scam, the rate fixing scandal, the PPI one.. before that there was the unfair bank charges... its been non-stop!

 

[leemason]

And there's more... Do you remember the "splits" misselling? Or the misselling of "zeros"? How about the misselling of private pensions (conning people that they would be better off with a private pension that a company pension or opting out of SERPS - when all the time they would be worse off). The list is endless. Notice how many of these have stupid names that mean nothing (like "interest swaps"). Yes I know they mean something to those in the know but to the rest of us...

 

[UKSBD]

And there's more... Do you remember the "splits" misselling? Or the misselling of "zeros"? How about the misselling of private pensions (conning people that they would be better off with a private pension that a company pension or opting out of SERPS - when all the time they would be worse off). The list is endless. Notice how many of these have stupid names that mean nothing (like "interest swaps"). Yes I know they mean something to those in the know but to the rest of us...

The one connection with all of them is that the person selling them make commission.

 

[internetspaceships]

Seriously guys.

As I've said on a couple of other threads. You're quite happy to just go along with outrageous price rises in domestic consumables but as soon as a bank gets involved you're all screaming blue murder.

What is the difference? Why do you accept it from people you buy from every day but not a bank?

I'd love a reasoned answer to this question with no frothing at the mouth and bank bashing.

I don't like banks, not one jot, but until anyone doesn't need them, they are a necessary evil.

 

[leemason]

Not sure which domestic consumables you mean but I guess that the difference is that when you by these products you are not told (or do not believe) that they will make you more sexy and then they would grow over time to be twice the consumable they are. Only to find they have shrunk to half the size before you get them...

The banks pretty much control the markets in one way or the other. They are capable of "making up" products which only they know properly (and probably not even they know them). Then they sell these dodgy products to people who invest in them (sometimes investing very large amounts). They are told that these investments are solid, sound, and very low risk (like splits and zeros). Then they find later on that they are neither solid nor low risk and they have lost their life savings and there pension... The only other people who act like this are dodgy e-mailers from Nigeria.

 

[UKSBD]

The difference is I pay my bank bank fees and I have a personal relationship manager at the bank who I used to assume was there to provide me a service and advise me.

That trust is now non existent because everytime they want to see me for supposodly giving me some help and advice all they are actually doing is trying to sell me whatever earns them the most and not what is good for me.

 

[internetspaceships]

Hey Lee good to speak again.

I'm no lover of the banks trust me on this. I also agree that the banks control all kinds of things that they shouldn't.

So we're not far apart here. What I struggle to get along with is that people think that banks are anything but a business. They are there to make profits.

In the UK we seem to hate that concept.

 

[UKSBD]

So we're not far apart here. What I struggle to get along with is that people think that banks are anything but a business. They are there to make profits.

I went to my bank as I wanted to take out a stocks and shares ISA
I knew exactly what I wanted so could have just gone in tranfsfered some money and set it up.

What did the bank do?

Passed me on to a so called independent advisor who did exactly what I was going to do anyway and ended up costing the bank £300 commission for a 5 minute meeting.

Where is the sense in that?

 

[DeborahW]

What I struggle to get along with is that people think that banks are anything but a business. They are there to make profits.

There's a huge difference between an honest business trading to make a profit and dishonest bankers trading to deceive and scam! These swap loans should never have been sold to small businesses- ever!

 

[internetspaceships]

What I struggle to get along with is that people think that banks are anything but a business. They are there to make profits.

There's a huge difference between an honest business trading to make a profit and dishonest bankers trading to deceive and scam! These swap loans should never have been sold to small businesses- ever!

Possibly so. So did people see a good deal or did they take advice before signing?

 

[businessfunding]

I now know two others who are also paying massive interest rates--i am currently paying nearly 8%- i worked it out that i have overpaid around £300.000 over the past 5 years!!! On the tv today, they say the banks have to give everyone full compensation--i hope so!

confusing use of punctuation here.

If it is £300, good luck.

if it is £300,000 woul be fascinated to know what paremeters you have used!

 

[internetspaceships]

If he's worried about paying £300 extra over 5 years then he's really not cut out to run a business....

 

[businessfunding]

If he's worried about paying £300 extra over 5 years then he's really not cut out to run a business....

And if it's £300K it is either a massive loan or daylight robbery

 

[internetspaceships]

And if it's £300K it is either a massive loan or daylight robbery

Yeah we get a lot of people on here complaining about loans that size on a free forum dont we.

 

[captaincloser]

Just finished digesting an enormous article on this latest surprise from the banks

These people are moneylenders...money lenders for goodness sake. Please do not be surprised.

For an education take a walk around the city of London any weekday lunchtime...just look at the male of the species and you will see SPIV ...nothing more, nothing less.

This is a dog eat dog world and the sooner someone kicks this benign idiot Melvin King into touch the better.He has done nothing but cry for a few years now..what a complete patsy.

A lot of this is down to the 'soft touch' regulation under Broon and his predecessor the ignomionious and apparently god fearing Blair.

But the bottom line is banking is now a spiv market run by and for spivs at the expense of the punters...thats you and me.

I do not have any personal gripe with banks..mine is simple observation of the zoo in London that is the square mile of the city. Spivs I tell you..

 

[internetspaceships]

Yeah Closer I agree.

My point is that people now seem to be less caring of some organisations profiting from them than others.

I refer the readers of the thread to the below (very famous) quote:

"Texting is the closest thing to pure profit ever invented" -- Sir Chris Gent, founder of Vodafone.

 

[leemason]

Hey Lee good to speak again.

I'm no lover of the banks trust me on this. I also agree that the banks control all kinds of things that they shouldn't.

So we're not far apart here. What I struggle to get along with is that people think that banks are anything but a business. They are there to make profits.

In the UK we seem to hate that concept.

Hope are thing? Hope business is still good.

Banks are just a business but one with massive influence and power. They have shown time and time again that they will willingly abuse such power to make themselves larger and larger profits. And pay themselves larger and larger bonuses. Then when it all turns to cr*p we end up paying for this many fold. What do they say "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

If I went door to door selling the sorts of fake investments and "loans" that the Banks have been then I would almost certainly end up in prison for fraud. In any other industry if I were to fix the market the way that Barlcays (and others) did with the Libor rate then I'd expect to face criminal proceedings. Instead of which the heads of these companies apparently need do no more than "consider their positions".

The City is peopled by glorified barrow boys who swill champagne and will do anything for a bigger profits including scr*w anyone else over in the process. I know because I've known some of them. We need to get this sorted out otherwise it will continue to happen again and again (as it has done).

 

[internetspaceships]

Thanks for the reply, yeah things arent too bad thanks at all!

Question for you though if I may? How on earth do you think we could solve it?

 

[businessfunding]

But the bottom line is banking is now a spiv market run by and for spivs at the expense of the punters...thats you and me.

I do not have any personal gripe with banks..mine is simple observation of the zoo in London that is the square mile of the city. Spivs I tell you..

Would it surprise you to know that retail banking (including small businees0 is the least profitable it has ever been?

Forget the 'friendly bank manager' he was making a good cut out of you too..

 

[captaincloser]

I think a lot of us, myself included, cannot estimate the sheer size of the criminaliy that is going on here.

This latest bankers fixing and collusion has been known about for a long time but they just couldn't keep a lid on it...an easy analogy for the man in the street (that's me) is doping racehorses that used to be big business back in the middle of the 20th century.

The very highest people in the banking world have been complicit in doping the financial markets for years...at the expense of all walking around this country. Everyone is a victim.

I would fully support jailing them but of course deals have already been done...at least half of all retired city bankers should be under lock and key and the other half put in the ducking well on the village green...but that's all frowned upon these days...

I would also lock up most of those past and present workers/directors of the BIG 4 accountancy firms...but that's just me...amd a few millon like me

Libor ? Most punters have never heard of it....they will now !

Banking ??..it's never been a city career-it's just a licence and a club to print money for yourself

Rant not over...will rev up again tomorrow.

 

[internetspaceships]

Or another cynical way of looking at it.

The government didn't have to bail out Barclays bank, and Barclays have sat pretty on this for a couple of years.

So let's make them the scapegoat for the interest rate fixing deal and take £280 million from them and drag them through the mud too.

How DARE they sit pretty!!


There's food for thought eh?

 

[leemason]

Thanks for the reply, yeah things arent too bad thanks at all!

Question for you though if I may? How on earth do you think we could solve it?

Well first of all we should separate the Banks into retail and investment. In this way the excesses of the spivs will have less of an affect on the retail banks.

In this way when one of these institutions fails we can let it fail.

We should stop immediately this latest £140bn in cheap loans to the banks and setup an independent investment bank run by people who know businesses and what they need. These should be people who know what it's like to start and run their own business. Not people who simply rose up the slippery corporate pole.

We should quickly force the separated investment banks to pay back the loans that we have given to them (with interested) and invest that in our newly created investment bank.

This bank should have a specific remit to invest outside of the south east of England and in "real" industries. Not fictitious financial instruments specifically designed to make huge profits for the few at the expense of the many.

At least that is a start... But come the revolution they'll all be the first against the wall anyway!

 

[internetspaceships]

The funny thing is (and you know what I do Lee) is that you imagine what I say to a bank manager who comes to visit and tries to tell me how I should be running my own business.

I say that to illustrate how correct you are. The money should be dished out by people who know how to operate businesses, not bank workers and black boxes.

 

[leemason]

Or another cynical way of looking at it.

The government didn't have to bail out Barclays bank, and Barclays have sat pretty on this for a couple of years.

So let's make them the scapegoat for the interest rate fixing deal and take £280 million from them and drag them through the mud too.

How DARE they sit pretty!!


There's food for thought eh?

Actually Barclays benefited from the other banks being bailed out big time. All banks have regardless of whether they directly accepted bailout money or not. The whole banking system functions on liquidity and we (or our government) gave the whole banking system the liquidity they needed to make larger and larger profits.

The only reason that Barclays didn't need a bailout by the way is that the sold a massive chunk of the bank to various middle eastern funds (mainly owned by the royal families of states like Dubai and Qatar).