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MancunianCreative
I'm not sure you would. It certainly won't hold its value like an Apple one would.
Stop hating and realise that very soon you'll all be on Macs
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Mac or Windows?
- Thread starter safetynut
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I'm not sure you would. It certainly won't hold its value like an Apple one would.
Stop hating and realise that very soon you'll all be on Macs
One thing to be careful of comparing base stats of a Mac and a PC;
The software on Macs is just as powerful as Windows but it uses less resources to do it (or uses them more efficiently). So comparing the RAM and the Processor and battery life directly is not a good comparison.
What you want to do is jump on a tech website which benmarks the products - then you look at the scores and see what works best. You'll soon find all Macs perform highly, whereas PCs vary a lot - this is why all Macs are expensive and not all PCs are - PCs have high, mid and low tiers, whereas Macs only have high (maybe mid too in some examples [Mac Mini]).
One of the best things about Macs is definitely the battery life - you get whats on the tin, unlike laptops. I sold laptops in Currys for 3 years and even though the laptops said "2hrs" on the ticket, I knew they very rarely would manage if if you were actually using them.
Ultimately, the choice between PC and Mac boils down to software and performance. Macs are more versitile and generally perform better and have good reliability, but some businesses will NEED to use software which only really works on Windows. You can get Office on Mac, but its runs like a dog. That's why we've moved over to using generic files like CSVs rather than spreadsheets like .xls or .numbers files.
The software on Macs is just as powerful as Windows but it uses less resources to do it (or uses them more efficiently). So comparing the RAM and the Processor and battery life directly is not a good comparison.
What you want to do is jump on a tech website which benmarks the products - then you look at the scores and see what works best. You'll soon find all Macs perform highly, whereas PCs vary a lot - this is why all Macs are expensive and not all PCs are - PCs have high, mid and low tiers, whereas Macs only have high (maybe mid too in some examples [Mac Mini]).
One of the best things about Macs is definitely the battery life - you get whats on the tin, unlike laptops. I sold laptops in Currys for 3 years and even though the laptops said "2hrs" on the ticket, I knew they very rarely would manage if if you were actually using them.
Ultimately, the choice between PC and Mac boils down to software and performance. Macs are more versitile and generally perform better and have good reliability, but some businesses will NEED to use software which only really works on Windows. You can get Office on Mac, but its runs like a dog. That's why we've moved over to using generic files like CSVs rather than spreadsheets like .xls or .numbers files.
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DotNetWebs
That's a bit of a contradiction IMO.
Windows and Linux PCs are far more 'versatile' than Macs because you have the freedom to customise the hardware and run whatever software you like on them.
I have used Macs, Windows and Linux PCs and appreciate the strengths of a MAC but I wouldn't say 'versatility' is one of them.
Regards
Dotty
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Who cares? You don't buy a computer thinking about the resale value
Grow up. I've got a PC and a Mac and both are good. Mac fanbois have been saying for decades Mac will take over, just like the Linux nuts. They're both still waiting. Like fusion power, it's "just around the corner".
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MancunianCreative
You don't buy a computer thinking about resale value, I'm just sayin that they hold their value. Well built things tend to do that. It's a good indicator you have spent well.
It's an argument people will never agree upon. For me personally. I find not one single drawback of using the Mac. Not the price, not the limited software options, nothing.
The software I need works great on the Mac, and much of the things I use are web-apps anyway, for the day-to-day operation of my business.
The things I use from Apple are a joy to use. They are great to look at and they feel quality. The customer service, the one time I've had a problem (logic board failing on MacBook) I take it to an Apple store, it's fixed for free, I collect the next day.
I love how the contacts on my phone are saved on my iMac, without the need for me to do anything! iCloud makes it even better.
I'm a designer, I love design. The simple fact is no-one makes better looking equipment.
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Ah - I didnt quite make myself clear here - a Mac is more versatile in my mind because you could have 4 identical iMacs in a row, and bought software to turn them into 4 unique systems (say a coding service, graphics service, server processing and a desktop) each iMac would deliver that just fine. If I got 4 identical PCs and tried to do the same things, they'd all work, but to varying degres, as the graphics service would want a better graphics card, or the server processing would want some specialist chip or SCSI drive.
You throw something at a Mac and 90% of the time it will run it really well. For a PC is more like 60% - this is why there are SO MANY different PCs, even under 1 brand name.
You throw something at a Mac and 90% of the time it will run it really well. For a PC is more like 60% - this is why there are SO MANY different PCs, even under 1 brand name.
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DotNetWebs
My Android phone was doing the via my Google account at a time when many of my iPhone friends were cursing the way they were tied to iTunes - in fact a few converted to Android because of it!
Regards
Dotty
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Android is a pretty good OS, but it is really going to become the windows of the mobile phone industry. The fact its open for the hardware developers to edit to make it work better on their products undermines the reliability and slow down update rollouts. Google will update android, roll it out to manufacturers who have to implement that into their bespoke version and then distribute that to the end users. Not very quick if its a security update =/
Apple might have users tied up and gagged half of the time buying a slight premium, but it gets a better product, and they're willing to pay that. Ultimately ask yourself this; Does it make a call? Yes. Does it send SMS? Yes. Does it send email? Yes, unless its a BlackBerry
Apple might have users tied up and gagged half of the time buying a slight premium, but it gets a better product, and they're willing to pay that. Ultimately ask yourself this; Does it make a call? Yes. Does it send SMS? Yes. Does it send email? Yes, unless its a BlackBerry
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Hmm, you think mass-manufactured high-tech items hold their value based on their build quality and not relative market-demand of the technology they contain?
That explains all your other opinions. But then you're only a designer - ooh, look, a shiny thing! ;]
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DotNetWebs
LOL you mean that it can become a pantomime villain to be mocked every time you hard-core Apple lovers want to want to feel all smug about your 'superior' operating system!
But seriously Android's and PC's 'openness' is both a strength and a weakness - it all depends on whose hands the product is in.
Regards
Dotty
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DotNetWebs
What do you think of the latest Ubunutu (With Unity)?
The irony here for me is that it appears that Ubuntu is trying to become more Apple-like!
I really dislike it and much prefer Mint as my main Linux Desktop and Lubuntu as a minimal desktop for a machine I have as a local server.
Regards
Dotty
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Ubuntu is great, I'm a huge fan, it's a fabulous achievement. (I don't want to know if they've fixed the secure VPN problems.)
I'm seeing a very interesting trend, I don't know how prevalent it is but the real ninja techies that we deal with - those operating large commercial platforms using Linux on them - are often running OS X on their office systems.
Linux works well on big applications, managed by specialists, but being a Unix clone it also speaks to OS X which in turn also speaks to the ordinary human beings in the office.
I guess we're lucky in having 3 operating systems to choose from. I wouldn't like to be in a world of just Gates or Jobs or even the penguin.
I'm seeing a very interesting trend, I don't know how prevalent it is but the real ninja techies that we deal with - those operating large commercial platforms using Linux on them - are often running OS X on their office systems.
Linux works well on big applications, managed by specialists, but being a Unix clone it also speaks to OS X which in turn also speaks to the ordinary human beings in the office.
I guess we're lucky in having 3 operating systems to choose from. I wouldn't like to be in a world of just Gates or Jobs or even the penguin.
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LOL you mean that it can become a pantomime villain to be mocked every time you hard-core Apple lovers want to want to feel all smug about your 'superior' operating system!
But seriously Android's and PC's 'openness' is both a strength and a weakness - it all depends on whose hands the product is in.
Regards
Dotty
Absolutely the openness is both a strength and a weakness, but it's Androids BIGGEST weakness, and by no means its best strength.
Don't get me wrong, Android is a great OS and on a HTC phone is pretty damn good. Absolutely nothing wrong with being #2
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DotNetWebs
Absolutely the openness is both a strength and a weakness, but it's Androids BIGGEST weakness, and by no means its best strength.
Don't get me wrong, Android is a great OS and on a HTC phone is pretty damn good. Absolutely nothing wrong with being #2
All in you opinion of course... Others would beg to differ...
Regards
Dotty
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The fanbois don't get it do they?
Macs are great, they work well, last, look pretty, provide a mechanism for non sexual male/male bonding etc.
But the insufferable smugness of a small minority of mac fans, the sense of superiority like a pimple ripe to be squeezed just puts a lot of people off.
Illogical, unfair, even wrong. But understandable.
Macs are great, they work well, last, look pretty, provide a mechanism for non sexual male/male bonding etc.
But the insufferable smugness of a small minority of mac fans, the sense of superiority like a pimple ripe to be squeezed just puts a lot of people off.
Illogical, unfair, even wrong. But understandable.
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I like to think we get that attitude from Jobs. "The customer doesn't know what they want, I know what they want". That rubs a lot of people up the wrong way, but you can't argue with anything about Jobs; The money he made, the markets he revolutionised or the markets he CREATED ["I know what they want" circa Tablets].
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DotNetWebs
The above paragraph just demonstrates YOUR limitations though doesn't it.
It's a bit like saying you are a web designer who only codes for a certain size of screen.
Consumers want Android which is now close to if not exceeding Apple in terms of sales.
Again it's flexibility may also be seen as a weakness and you are only focusing on one side of the argument.
Regards
Dotty
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M
MancunianCreative
Not really.
It demonstrates that the are variable screen sizes using Android.
The variables in screen sizes for web design are easily accommodated. Screens tend to follow only a couple of ratios but tend to be % increases in sizes. Android handsets literally go from square to widescreen. Making anything that uses the same spaces in every Android handset is as difficult as the number of screens there are. Apple? One. Done.
That doesn't make me limited.
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DotNetWebs
Did you watch that video I posted earlier? e.g the bit where Steve Jobs introduced Bill Gates on stage as the saviour of Apple.
As I hinted at earlier, there are many people who have got us where we are today in computing - As much as I admire Steve Jobs he was not the single-handed Messiah you are making him out to be.
Regards
Dotty
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DotNetWebs
It sounds like it to me because you are focusing on pixel-perfect fixed ratios - Android layouts are fluid.
Regards
Dotty
Edit - that's not meant to sound like a personal criticism - I just think you are inappropriately using it to attack Android
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There you are wrong.
- I can argue that his attitude to modern medicine was tinged by madness. (He didn't want surgery as he didn't want to be 'invaded'.)
- I can argue that he treated his work colleagues appallingly.
- I can argue that he was not even a minor philanthropist despite earning billions. Miserly SOB.
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The reason Mac's have not dominated is because they are targeting a different market. Windows PC's are for anyone that wants a computer. Mac's target the higher end market. If you look at that market in particular, I think it is probably fairly evenly split between Apple and Sony, but I am definitely seeing more people replace their top end windows machines with Mac's (moreso since the iPhone came out).
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MancunianCreative
Actually that's pretty much exactly what you're saying.
"I can't do stuff that might be difficult so I stick to what's easy."
There's no shame in that but don't try to misrepresent your position.
That's not what I said was it?
I never said I don't attempt difficult things. This thread being proof of that. Arguing with fools. The problem for me with Android is the fact that there are an infinite amount of combinations. It's a headache. One that Apple doesn't have.
Also Jobs charitable donations or lack of makes me laugh. What does that have to do with which operating system is best?
Here's a good bottom line the iPhone outsells every single other phone. The Mac market share grows while windows shrinks. Join in, don't be scared homie
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DotNetWebs
I really don't know what it is with Apple that turns SOME people like this....???
Many of us have been using computers of all types of operating systems and hardware for many years and have OPEN MINDs.
We can see the advantages and disadvantages in the various platforms...
People like you however appear to have been brain-washed into a cult where you genuinely believe you are superior to everybody else. :|
Regards
Dotty
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It's called the reality distortion effect. The fact that one can recognise it and still make completely ridiculous claims like I have just goes to show it's effectiveness. And strangely even that endears Jobs and Apple - it's pretty much a real life example of "DoubleThink". For those of you who don't know what that is, go pick up a copy of George Orwells book "1984".
At the end of the day individuals can argue and debate until the cows come home about which platform is better, and competition will always drive better products so I'm really happy as the Voipfone guy said that we have a 3 horse race (albeit a 2 horse 1 retired stud race). Ultimately what I would do is look at what big business do - Google overhauled their internal IT earlier this year, threw out pretty much every Windows machine and replaced them with either a Linux Box or a Mac, as requested by the employ who's workstation it was. I don't see Google doing any better or worse so neither are better in that respect, all I know is Google ditched Windows due to security.
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Or use all three. I see that more and more, mixed server environments and users that have a Windows workstation and an Apple laptop or ipad.
Interoperability is now good and getting better, and a lot of the better software development either is, or is striving to be, platform agnostic.
So the original question is in a way the classic salesman's false alternative. In reality you can choose one, both, or even all three to best suit your business needs.
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Let me put it in terms you might understand. You're overstating the problem of developing for a relative environment instead of an absolute one. You exhibit a fear of what appears to you to be the insurmountable challenge of the non-apple environment and instead cling religiously to the platform you can manage.The problem for me with Android is the fact that there are an infinite amount of combinations. It's a headache. One that Apple doesn't have.
The Mac market share grows while windows shrinks. Join in, don't be scared homie
Oh, and I have a macbook since it was given to me. I don't use it very often though, sorry.
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loudBANG design
i have 5 macs between the office(3) and home and although i would rate them highly above the PC for reliability, speed and if it matters pure style. The battery life however... awful. If you use a laptop fairly often without mains then the battery life on the macbook pros will lose significant life after a very short time. After three months my newest laptop battery life went from lasting 7 hours on a charge to 3.5 hours and then not much over six months it was already down to about 2 hours. As for syncing well with the iphone... that works some times but if you have more than one mac account/email/ID then you will find all sorts of problems with syncing.
Incidentally, my iphone 3g though i love it to bits, is totally unreliable when using it for it's primary use, making calls. Since new it has always dropped off after 5 minutes into a call. It then takes about 5 mins to start up again, but thats the iphone, i am sure there is a whole new thread for that somewhere.
Incidentally, my iphone 3g though i love it to bits, is totally unreliable when using it for it's primary use, making calls. Since new it has always dropped off after 5 minutes into a call. It then takes about 5 mins to start up again, but thats the iphone, i am sure there is a whole new thread for that somewhere.
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As a user of Windows based and Apple kit, as well as various flavours of Linux (OSX being one of course), I think both Microsoft and Apple have strengths and weaknesses.
Apple kit is a more controlled environment, where the applications software from companies other than Apple is more controlled than is the case with Windows. It suits people who are not comfortable with the intricacies of technology because Apple insulates users from the technology rather better than Windows or Linux.
For users with limited computer experience and knowledge, and intend only to do a few simple tasks like email, web browsing, listening to music and perhaps some word processing, then I think Apple products are the better option.
Anyone who comes out and states Apple is wholly superior is a bit of a plonker though, it's only better for the things it can do, and there is plenty of software that doesn't run on OSX. And it is quite pricey, lovely though it may be in appearance and use.
Apple kit is a more controlled environment, where the applications software from companies other than Apple is more controlled than is the case with Windows. It suits people who are not comfortable with the intricacies of technology because Apple insulates users from the technology rather better than Windows or Linux.
For users with limited computer experience and knowledge, and intend only to do a few simple tasks like email, web browsing, listening to music and perhaps some word processing, then I think Apple products are the better option.
Anyone who comes out and states Apple is wholly superior is a bit of a plonker though, it's only better for the things it can do, and there is plenty of software that doesn't run on OSX. And it is quite pricey, lovely though it may be in appearance and use.
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I'll give you examples..
SCADA Control systems from Allen Bradley, or Rockwell Automation - virtually all integrate with Windows.
Electronics Design Software is heavily Windows based - try MultiSim - although NI have made Labview for Mac!
Advanced 3D Modeling software - try Autodesk Maya, Proconcrete..
Network Security Software - Look at GFI's software, IBM AppScan, Acunetix
Accounting/Payroll - Virtually all Sage software is Windows only.
CNC Software - like Mach3, it's all very heavily windows based.
There's a few off the top of my head, and some very major titles for enterprise level businesses. I hate to say it, but so much major business software is only available for Windows. Mind you, slowly but surely more is becoming available for Macs.
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I actually love everything about Macs, and I can only say that the OS is brilliant, the computer simply works.
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You answered your own question, but it's funny how Mac users don't like to admit it up front.
Of course there are alternatives, but its the alternatives worth choosing that's important, and in this regard, Windows has a catalogue of software hard to beat. Anyone interested in SMB to Enterprise level software is in many cases long past caring what the machine looks like, it's bought to do a job.
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