Mac or Windows?

thinking of changing from a windows PC to a Mac purely for business, emails, general office suite, the Internet and the speed and battery life to that of windows pcs also the benefit of having not to wait for it to start up etc. has anyone gone down this route? What do they think? Also is a Mac compatible with a blackberry device as I've heard there are problems with the sync side of things..

Thoughts and comments appreciated please.

Thank you in advance..
 

Subbynet

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Apple Mac's are fine, but the reasons you give to switch leave me a little confused. I'm not under the impression that Mac's are any better than Windows machines with regards to Speed and Battery Life.

Also, unless you're using a very old version of Windows, you should be able to use Sleep and Hibernate Mode so that you don't need to boot and wait for it to start. I very rarely have to boot my system, I just move a mouse and it switches on ready for work.

I also think the range of Business type software is much larger for Windows based systems, and this is something you should keep in mind.
 
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M

MancunianCreative

Oh theyre definately better on battery life. Speed will depend on the machine, but they don't tend to slow down or have registry problems like the windows. Plus you can take them to the Apple store if theres a problem.

IF your on a blackberry, I imagine there is problems syncing up - because theyre garbage.
 
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Subbynet

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Oh theyre definately better on battery life.

But what are you comparing too?

Try a Macbook Pro http://www.apple.com/uk/macbookpro/specs.html

7 Hours Battery Life.

I then went and looked at a mid-range laptop from Lenovo.

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/...orkflow:item.detail?GroupID=240&Code=L520GOOD

Battery Life - 10 hours

Granted the processor in the mac pro is better, but its also three times the price of the Lenovo... (Around £1500 for the MacBook, compared to £550 for the Lenovo)

The fact of the matter is both these companies are providing "best case" figures, and in real world usage you can reduce any claimed numbers by around 20%, as much depends on how you use it.
 
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cjd

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    I can't see anything in your requirements that needs a Mac. You can get all that from windows for at least half the cost.

    There are two real reasons to use Mac.
    1. They're beautiful pieces of equipment
    2. Their server is staggeringly good and dirt cheap in comparison to anything else.

    If you do go the Mac way, use an iPhone instead of the Blackberry - synching works perfectly.
     
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    gilchrist

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    I can't see anything in your requirements that needs a Mac. You can get all that from windows for at least half the cost.

    There are two real reasons to use Mac.
    1. They're beautiful pieces of equipment
    2. Their server is staggeringly good and dirt cheap in comparison to anything else.

    If you do go the Mac way, use an iPhone instead of the Blackberry - synching works perfectly.

    I agree with the above comments.
    :)
     
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    I love Macs, they are attractive and stylish.

    I have to say though that I changed from Mac to Windows a year ago and I wouldn't go back to a Mac except if I wanted to use it for graphics.

    On a business level in my experience most sites are geared more towards Windows and I changed because I was finding it more frustrating to get things done when other sites weren't displaying properly in the Mac.

    Syncing with a Mac can also be tricky although I can't speak from experience.

    As for start up, I have found new Windows machines reasonably quick!

    Don't forget, when things go wrong and yes they still do even with Macs, it is much easier to find support for Windows.
     
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    HollyUK

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    I'm reading this with interest as it is a debate I had with myself recently. Some of my family and friends have gone over to Mac and indeed they are beautiful... The biggest deciding factors for me were:

    1. I can buy a decent windows machine much cheaper - for me about half the price.

    2. I would have to change my software which could be costly and some specialised software is not yet available on the Mac. This means I would have to keep a second windows machine in commission for those projects which sort of defeated the object.

    3. I have an Iphone and iPad so I sort of have the 'Apple' experience with those.

    I have been told that the life of the Mac can be much longer than a windows machine as the build quality etc is much better (not sure if this is true). I also know that you can run some windows programmes in some sort of partition, but was told this was clunky and could be very slow (again not sure as here-say)

    I think if I was starting my business from scratch I would be very, very tempted - but as a conversion it would be very costly for me and the benefits just don't justify the cost. Having said that if aesthetics are very important to you may decide to just work around the issues until you get it all sorted out.

    Bye the way I can highly recommend the iPhone as a business phone - I am on my second one and really love it. The only reason I can see for not having one is if you hate the onscreen keypad and prefer the actual buttons as a friend of mine does.

    Isn't it a good thing that we don't all like the same things! ;)
     
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    garyk

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    I would say the battery life and startup times arent valid reasons for a switch (and I'm an apple fanboy!)

    That said your third reason, not clogging up the OS with crap over a period of time *is* very valid. I bought my macbook in feb 2009 and it still runs brilliantly and I upgraded from Leopard to Snow Leopard seamlessly. If that was windows by now I would have so much junk scattered everywhere I would be looking to do a re-install which is what I used to do every two years.

    I also think windows OSes are going backwards. Look nicer but seem less intuitive and just adding no end of crap for no good reason.

    One thing I would say is if you still need to run windows apps you'll need to look at vmware or parallels and run windows as a virtual machine, you'll need at least 4gb of ram. Even then its not great but then emulation is always going to be slow.

    Gary
     
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    mit74

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    it's incredible how when ever we get these mac vs pc posts even though Windows pc generally have a 4:1 ratio it's full of Mac users trying to justify spending double or triple on their purchase and how amazing their computer is while most PC users don't even bother... at the end of the day its just a PC without a label unlike the Apple. Quite frankly the claims about Windows on these post by fanboys are a joke and we read the same rubbish everytime someone posts a thread like this about registries, fragmentation, viruses, quality etc.

    A Mac is generally considered a slightly better operating system than Windows but does it warrant paying so much more for what you need?
     
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    The only thing that makes a computer is the operating system.

    :)


    You can put OS X on a £450 Toshiba/Dell and it'll turn it into a first rate work station - you just need to fiddle with it a bit ( they call them a Hackintosh ).
     
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    The main reason why MACs seem better than Windows is that Apple control everything about them from hardware, to software, to peripherals. I'm no great Windows fan and don't use it myself. But at the end of the day it's down to what you like. MAC OSX looks very pretty. Then again M$ have put an awful lot of work into making Windows look pretty as well.

    I have to say that I don't like the way that Apple have started to turn to law suites to keep their "advantage" in certain sectors. It smells a bit too much like yet another large computer company trying to flex it's muscles to prevent genuine competition.

    Desktop operating systems are all about image. So go with whichever one you like the look of.
     
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    A

    amphis software

    I would just say that if you want to buy a Mac, first check that you can get all the software you need for the Mac at the price you want to pay.

    we get a fair number of emails asking for Mac versions of our software which suggests to me that some Mac business users are finding it hard to find the software they need at a good price.

    Tom
     
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    Subbynet

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    The main reason why MACs seem better than Windows is that Apple control everything about them from hardware, to software, to peripherals.

    I think that might have been true a number of years ago, today, you'll find the same hardware as you can find in other laptops. Don't get me wrong, they normally spec their laptops higher but when it comes to problems they're just as prone to breaking as the competition. I've rarely come across anyone running a full Apple setup, it's normally a mixture of peripheral brands also being used.

    You probably know about Foxconn, they make Apple stuff, and for just about everyone else too. Look at this for a list.

    Acer Inc. (Taiwan)
    Amazon.com (United States)[16]
    Apple Inc. (United States)[17]
    ASRock (Taiwan)
    Intel (United States)
    Cisco (United States)
    Hewlett-Packard (United States)[18]
    Dell (United States)
    Nintendo (Japan)
    Nokia (Finland)[17]
    Microsoft (United States)
    MSI (Taiwan)
    Motorola (United States)
    Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)[19]
    Vizio (United States)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foxconn

    You can check Google - this is a couple of years old but I've no reason to think today's results would be significantly different.

    http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9141032/Mac_laptops_less_reliable_than_ASUS_Sony_notebooks

    It's not hard to find reports online about hardware issues.

    Even in software Apple have their problems, I've heard of problems left right and centre since the ios 5 update with regards to the camera not working properly, let alone the battery draining issue which has been widely reported.

    Apple's main reason for buying changed when they sold themselves to being a maker, sorry, scrap that, a designer of shiny things, and not a fully committed computer manufacturer like they were back in the day.
     
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    cjd

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    All hardware breaks and all software has bugs - that's not the test. It's a fact that because Apple control the hardware that their software runs on, it's easier for them to integrate it properly. Windows has to cope with knowing that it needs to run on any old rubbish. The end result is quite definitely a more 'finished' product.

    Whether the average user notices or not I doubt, but it's also true that Macs get on with life with a lot less fuss and maintenance which makes them pretty good for those who don't constantly tinker with virus guards and registry cleaning.

    A big downside for me - but not many 'real' people - is that I can't pull it apart and fiddle with the hardware, but you get used to that - at least until something breaks.

    Another is that I feel de-skilled.
    I knew my way around the M$ operating system, mostly because of years of fixing things on them, but I know very little about my Mac after using it for over a year. I've become a dumb user simply because it does just work but also because all the difficult stuff (VPNs, servers etc) is now done by our real tech people using central configurations.

    So they look good and the work very well - I'd say rather better than a similarly configured PC but at twice the cost. You pays your money and you take your choice.

    (Most people seem to choose on looks and badge appeal, we came to the decision reluctantly after expensively trying both Windows and Linux - neither are a patch on how Apple does VPNs and company servers.)
     
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    RedEvo

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    I would just say that if you want to buy a Mac, first check that you can get all the software you need for the Mac at the price you want to pay.

    we get a fair number of emails asking for Mac versions of our software which suggests to me that some Mac business users are finding it hard to find the software they need at a good price.

    Tom

    Remember you can duel boot a Mac or run Parallels or similar if you need to run Windoze only apps.

    d
     
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    Subbynet

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    All hardware breaks and all software has bugs - that's not the test. It's a fact that because Apple control the hardware that their software runs on, it's easier for them to integrate it properly. Windows has to cope with knowing that it needs to run on any old rubbish. The end result is quite definitely a more 'finished' product.

    What??? It's no easier/harder for them to integrate things than it for everyone else.

    Apple, they buy Intel Processors, they buy graphics cards from companies like ATI, they buy hard drives and everything else from the same people as everyone else. They have to hook it all up to work like everyone else - made in the same factory as many other brands.

    Windows certain does not need to run on any old rubbish as you put it, in fact the upgrade requirements are one reason Windows XP has such a market share after so many years. So It's a strange comparison to make. Aero based Win 7 (running on decent hardware) is a nice looking and stable OS to use.

    Whether the average user notices or not I doubt, but it's also true that Macs get on with life with a lot less fuss and maintenance which makes them pretty good for those who don't constantly tinker with virus guards and registry cleaning.

    I think both of which have become mainly things of the past. I rarely have to worry about Viruses (In fact, Mac users do need to worry - they don't tend to run AV, but should), and registry cleaning? I mean is that really an "issue"? Most systems have plenty of horsepower behind them theses days.

    A big downside for me - but not many 'real' people - is that I can't pull it apart and fiddle with the hardware, but you get used to that - at least until something breaks.

    I'm pretty sure this part flys in the face of everything else you've said. :)

    So they look good and the work very well - I'd say rather better than a similarly configured PC but at twice the cost. You pays your money and you take your choice.

    If you paid the same money for a "Windows" Laptop/PC, you'll get something of equal quality, but the fact is, people don't judge them equally at all.
     
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    mit74

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    I laugh when people mention 'registry cleaning' for windows. It's something completely over hyped by pc software companies to sell useless software to dumb people who think they need it to speed up their computer. Unfortunately Apple users will also believe any old tripe about Windows as well and then try and use it to belittle the OS on how inferior it is in every way.
     
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    cjd

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    What??? It's no easier/harder for them to integrate things than it for everyone else.

    Of course it's easier to write software to a known set of hardware. Apple only use a tiny subset of the hardware that's available for Windows and they know exactly who made it and to what standard - because they specify it or pick it off the manufactures list themselves.

    Windows has to cope with every PC piece of kit made by anyone anywhere and anywhen. I built my first PC from bits of broken PCs bought from eBay - it needed a lot of pushing and pulling but it worked eventually.

    I'm sure you're aware that some hardware is better than others and that some make a better fist of being compatible than others. Open standards are great, but the downside is all manner of incompatibility issues that is outside the remit of the OS to fix.

    Windows certain does not need to run on any old rubbish as you put it, in fact the upgrade requirements are one reason Windows XP has such a market share after so many years. So It's a strange comparison to make. Aero based Win 7 (running on decent hardware) is a nice looking and stable OS to use.

    I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. There's nothing wrong with Win 7 or even XP for that matter (Vista was an opportunist POS though) and the fact that it will run on any old rubbish so long as it conforms roughly to standard is a good thing. It means you can buy a PC for a few hundred quid and mostly it'll be fine.

    It doesn't mean it HAS to run on rubbish hardware or that a good PC can't be built for Win 7 - of course it can, I've had some amazing PCs and for a lot less money than a Mac.
    If you paid the same money for a "Windows" Laptop/PC, you'll get something of equal quality, but the fact is, people don't judge them equally at all.

    People mostly don't buy Apple products rationally - they buy on image, brand, design and supposed user friendliness (mostly PR and imagination). A Ford Mondeo will get you from London to Glasgow in exactly the same time and in very similar comfort to a Mercedes, but people still buy Mercedes. Nothing wrong with that.
     
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    Subbynet

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    Of course it's easier to write software to a known set of hardware. Apple only use a tiny subset of the hardware that's available for Windows and they know exactly who made it and to what standard - because they specify it or pick it off the manufactures list themselves.

    What do you think other manufacturers are doing? It's hardly as if they're randomly choosing hardware without consideration to how it operates. They know the hardware they will use, and they will write drivers to work with the OS - exactly the same as Apple has to do.

    Like i said before, its been a while since Apple spec'd the hardware and wrote the software for the entire machine, it just doesn't happen any more. (None of the major players do it any more)

    Windows has to cope with every PC piece of kit made by anyone anywhere and anywhen. I built my first PC from bits of broken PCs bought from eBay - it needed a lot of pushing and pulling but it worked eventually.

    Sorry again this is completely about-face. Windows doesn't have too (Windows doesn't come with drivers for every piece of hardware in existence and they don't even try too), instead those who made the hardware integrate it with Windows. So when HP or Lenevo decide to use that hardware, they give them a driver so it works - just like they do for Apple.

    I'm sure you're aware that some hardware is better than others and that some make a better fist of being compatible than others. Open standards are great, but the downside is all manner of incompatibility issues that is outside the remit of the OS to fix.

    This as a statement doesn't even make sense. Open Standards with a downside of incompatibility issues? How is that possible? It must be possible to fix it within the confines of the OS because you're writing a driver for it. Open Standards are very well defined. (But granted, there can be differing levels of competence in programming)

    Likewise with hardware, when it comes down to the nuts and bolts of it, an Apple Computer is using the same parts from the same suppliers as everyone else. There are only so many suppliers of CPU's, of RAM, of MB's etc... Samsung are a huge supplier of Apple semiconductors.

    Have a look at this page of the largest semiconductor suppliers.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiconductor_sales_leaders_by_year

    These guys are the real muscle behind the whole computer industry, and are hardly tin-pot companies.

    Or try the largest foundries. These are the guys like above, but doing the hard work on behalf of others.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foundry_model

    I think you're misinterpreting what I'm saying. There's nothing wrong with Win 7 or even XP for that matter (Vista was an opportunist POS though) and the fact that it will run on any old rubbish so long as it conforms roughly to standard is a good thing. It means you can buy a PC for a few hundred quid and mostly it'll be fine.

    It doesn't mean it HAS to run on rubbish hardware or that a good PC can't be built for Win 7 - of course it can, I've had some amazing PCs and for a lot less money than a Mac.

    But again it's hard to understand your point - because you quiet clearly state Windows will run on any old rubbish - but earlier mention how hard it is for Windows because of the hardware differences. Plus Win 7 (The decent one with Aero and other features) will not run on poorer hardware, it automatically turns off features to ensure it runs as well as possible given the hardware available.

    People mostly don't buy Apple products rationally - they buy on image, brand, design and supposed user friendliness (mostly PR and imagination). A Ford Mondeo will get you from London to Glasgow in exactly the same time and in very similar comfort to a Mercedes, but people still buy Mercedes. Nothing wrong with that.

    True, a fool and his money are soon parted. :)
     
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    Most computer purchases like most purchases in general are based on image. This included large company purchases. I've seen so many major computer systems over the years implemented with little or no serious evaluation and simply purchased based on the shiny box (metaphorically speaking).
     
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    Subbynet

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    Have you ever owned a Mac, Subby?

    :|

    I have previously owned, used and repaired them plenty of times having been in IT field for some 14 years now. I started years ago with original Macintosh, a iMac G3 and Power Mac G4, and a MacBook Pro laptop. Also I have an iPod which I use daily, and a iPhone 3gs which I don't use but only because my android phone is better.

    I'm not adverse to buying and using Apple products, it's just I wouldn't pay the kind of premiums required now because the hardware is basically the same under the hood.

    I'm a techy, I judge it on tech. :redface:
     
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    cjd

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    Many years ago, there was a big difference between PCs and Macs, both in applications software and hardware. These days the major differences are in the OS and physical and cosmetic design. There's no denying that iMacs use some decent parts, the screen for example is excellent. There's also no denying that you could get the same components in a PC for a lot less; at least 33% less.

    I also like Windows 7, it's what Vista should have been but it was terribly late.

    Personally, I'd have been happy using PCs forever, but they've proven to be no use - or at least ridiculously expensive - at doing what we need them to do. Having now used an iMac, iPad and iPhone all day everyday for getting on for 18 months now, I can see that some of the fanboy claims are actually real - but it comes at some expense and inconvenience.
     
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    Subbynet

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    Yeah years ago things were different, you were basically a second class citizen using Apple products. The chances were software (and hardware) wasn't available or was at least a version behind the current offering for Windows.

    On the plus side, so much more of the integration was done in-house by Apple, and you could tell this when comparing it to then "Windows" based offerings, which back in the day was a nightmare, with BSOD being a near daily occurrence (98 & ME). Windows 2000 and XP turned out to be great OS's in the end... I have no idea what they were smoking when Vista came out, but I have to say Windows 7 has come up trumps really.

    My gripe is with this fanboy mentality. I just don't understand some arguments at all. I mean, even you just said you couldn't use PC's because of the expense?? (But choose to use Apple?) It appears hard for Apple users to justify why they use these products, apart from the design aspect.

    Also you finish with how well iMac, iPad and iPhone work together, but the fact is, many people don't have a full Apple line up. Where's your HP or Epson printer? Your new 10mp camera from Nikon, or say a Scanner from Canon, and your Android phone from HTC?

    Even within their own products you can find people having many problems. It doesn't "just work" for many people. Read https://discussions.apple.com for evidence. Plus, it's widely reported that Apple has a habit of deleting some forums threads.

    Here, try a few basic Google searches.

    imac iphone sync problem site:https://discussions.apple.com

    ios 5 issues site:https://discussions.apple.com

    iphone issues site:https://discussions.apple.com

    When Apple only had 1% market share you were bound to hear much less about the problems, now that market share has increased, you can see they're just as prone to failure and error as the competition.
     
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    cjd

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    Voipfone used PCs for the first 3 years of its life, then switched to Linux because we needed a VPN and server. Our operating platform is Linux and our chief techie refused to have anything Windows on the main network for security reasons. We have Linux software engineers and a Linux sysadmin but we never got the Linux secure VPN working properly.

    When we were sorting it out, an Apple engineer working in the next cage to ours at the Data Centre 'gave' our tech director the Mac server just to try and we've never looked back. It's dirt cheap compared to Microsoft - no licence - it's secure, stable and works like a dream straight out of the box. It's the best bit of kit Apple make and no-one has heard of it.

    We even asked the Linux Geeks to convert and they eventually did. When even hardcore, command line, Linux coders admit that OSX is 'ok', there has to be something in it

    I tell you, no-one in our company wanted Apple - least of all me, I thought it was overpriced, underpowered hardware for pony tailed wassoks and fanboys. But actually, it's bloody good stuff.
     
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    Yeah years ago things were different, you were basically a second class citizen using Apple products. The chances were software (and hardware) wasn't available or was at least a version behind the current offering for Windows.


    Ha Ha!!

    This just shows the narrow minded blinkered attitudes of many in 'the IT industry'.

    In certain sectors you were a second class citizen if you had a windows computer - Macs were the mainstay of the graphics/design and photographic industry in the 90's and early 2000's ( and to a certain extent they still are ).

    People can argue all they want but it suits certain trades better and certain people better - I'd like them to be cheaper but I do know why I use them and it's not because they look good!

    To the original poster for your purposes which are not stretching a computer I'd save your money and buy a PC. Then in 3 years when it's running like a dog, buy a new one, or get someone who knows how to convert it to run Mac OS 10.8 Ginger Tabby which will be out by then.

    ;)
     
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    Subbynet

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    Voipfone used PCs for the first 3 years of its life, then switched to Linux because we needed a VPN and server. Our operating platform is Linux and our chief techie refused to have anything Windows on the main network for security reasons. We have Linux software engineers and a Linux sysadmin but we never got the Linux secure VPN working properly.

    When we were sorting it out, an Apple engineer working in the next cage to ours at the Data Centre 'gave' our tech director the Mac server just to try and we've never looked back. It's dirt cheap compared to Microsoft - no licence - it's secure, stable and works like a dream straight out of the box. It's the best bit of kit Apple make and no-one has heard of it.

    We even asked the Linux Geeks to convert and they eventually did. When even hardcore, command line, Linux coders admit that OSX is 'ok', there has to be something in it

    I tell you, no-one in our company wanted Apple - least of all me, I thought it was overpriced, underpowered hardware for pony tailed wassoks and fanboys. But actually, it's bloody good stuff.

    Well, it's hard for me to comment on that kind of scenario cjd. All I can say is a lot VPN software under Linux is mature, and with some tinkering (it is Linux after-all ;) ) it should have been possible to get it working.

    Changing the whole infrastructure wouldn't have been my recommendation given this issue, but hey, if you're now up and running as you required, no doubt you're happy.

    That said, OS X Server does make some things easy to do, but remember under the hood, its running the same software as you can run under Linux.
     
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    Subbynet

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    Ha Ha!!

    This just shows the narrow minded blinkered attitudes of many in 'the IT industry'.

    In certain sectors you were a second class citizen if you had a windows computer - Macs were the mainstay of the graphics/design and photographic industry in the 90's and early 2000's ( and to a certain extent they still are ).
    ;)

    So to prove your point you choose a single sector - graphics. And you wonder why Windows PC's became so prevalent! :rolleyes:
     
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    M

    MancunianCreative

    How on earth is it easier to find support for a windows pc?? Mac problem. Book an appointment at genius bar. Problem solved oh and it's in warranty so of course it's free. Have a nice day.

    For me I just love the ease of syncing up iPhone iPad and MacBooks to the iMacs. I have a Dell in the office and a Blackberry for testing on but they just don't compare.

    Attention to detail is what draws me to Apple products. I try to surround myself with inspiration and using the wonderful devices drives e to do better with the sites and apps I create.
     
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    sanjiv

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    I recently switched from a Sony Vaio running Win7 to a Macbook Air because of its portability, battery life and I prefer how Mac OS X comes with all the software I could need and looks quite good.

    2 months in, I would strongly suggest the Mac is a lot more productive and quicker. I have never had any lag and very few program crashes, which had always caused me problems on windows. Everything seems to be so quick and simple to use and I can just get on with it. Programs are either running or not. You can see what the system is doing and what you have running in the dock.

    I haven't yet found anything other than accounting software which won't run in Mac but I am just running Vmware Fusion for the accounting software as and when I need it.

    I would say for me, it was worth the premium over the Windows machine. Also support from Apple has been fantastic with my old iPhone. Now on Android but want to go back to iPhone.
     
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    garyk

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    Bedfordshire
    :|
    I'm a techy, I judge it on tech. :redface:

    I'm a dev I judge it on stability.

    I *love* XP its probably the most stable OS M$ have ever released, even more so than the so called bullet proof WinNT (which when I had it a dodgy 56K modem driver often used to make it BSOD) but everything since is just not quite there. UAC under vista/win7 has made things painful, syswow64 for calling on 32bit stuff is just plain illogical etc etc.

    Is OS X bulletproof? nope. But its a damn sight (not just a little) better than anything M$ produce these days.
     
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