Phone tapping ...a Wapping scandal.

[movietub]

And what impact is that? And who is it impacting?

Yes, this is a world changing event... for those that work for News International, and for those caught breaking the law. But for everyone else?

Steve

Basically to you and I it makes sod all difference. Unless you happened to buy the NOWT, in which case you are stuck choosing from one of our other 20 odd national papers.

Either way, we will all be less affected than by the teachers strikes, for example.

So I say interesting to see it develop, good bit of scandal and justice, but lasting impact or effect almost none existent.

 

[bdw]

Yes, this is a world changing event... for those that work for News International, and for those caught breaking the law. But for everyone else?

The Murdoch Empire is so big that if it gets into much more trouble this will be reflected all over the stock market. If this adversely affects people's savings and investments then you can bet your sweet bippy they will see it as being of massive importance.

Cameron is being drawn deeper into this by the minute. Ultimately this is capable of bringing down the government of our country. We do not yet know exactly what damage will be done.

A list of David Cameron's recent meeting with NI people was reported in today's Scotsman ...

Diary dates

CAMERON'S meetings with proprietors, editors and senior media executives:

May 2010 Rupert Murdoch, general discussion
June 2010 Rebekah Brooks, Chequers
June 2010 Dominic Mohan (Sun), general discussion
June 2010 News International summer party
June 2010 James Harding (Times), interview
June 2010 Times CEO Summit, speech
July 2010 The Sun Police Bravery Awards reception and dinner
July 2010 Dominic Mohan (Sun), general discussion
July 2010 Colin Myler (News of the World), general discussion
August 2010 Rebekah Brooks, Chequers
September 2010 John Witherow (Sunday Times), general discussion
October 2010 James Harding (Times), Tory party conference
October 2010 Dominic Mohan (Sun) with Rebekah Brooks
October 2010 John Witherow (Sunday Times), Tory party conference
October 2010 News International reception, Tory Party Conference
November 2010 James Murdoch, Chequers
December 2010 The Sun Military Awards reception and dinner
December 2010 Rebekah Brooks and James Murdoch, social
December 2010 Rebekah Brooks, social
March 2011 News of the World Children's Champions Reception, (No 10)
April 2011 James Harding (Times), gen. discussion
May 2011 Dominic Mohan (Sun), general discussion
June 2011 James Harding (Times), general discussion
June 2011 News International summer party, social
June 2011 Times CEO Summit, speech
July 2011 The Sun Police Bravery Awards reception and dinner

http://thescotsman.scotsman.com/news/Revealed-Cameron39s-talks-with-Murdoch.6802419.jp

.

 

[cmcp]

Until now a lot of the working class never stopped to realise the actual damage a bad network like the murdoch empire really does. It's hidden behind this "harmless fun" curtain for years, and truth be told a lot of folk need a point rammed down their throats before they'll stop to consider it.

IMO any awareness that forces folk to consider what the hell they're up to buying such sh!te is a good thing and hopefully it'll give folk a shake to realise "wait a minute, the rest of the world is right".

For years there's been a divide between the red tops, good papers, and their readers. The red tops justify the divide by selling themselves as the peoples paper, hinting that real / un-sensationalised news was quite snobby but here you go, "here's the juicy stuff", it's ok to read this, we're on your side, we know what you want. People will beleive anything in print, and if this whole saga helps them stop and think twice then it's a good thing.

I've seen it impact a few folk in my family who previously "innocently" bought into it, hopefully it trickles through the world.

 

The Murdoch Empire is so big that if it gets into much more trouble this will be reflected all over the stock market. If this adversely affects people's savings and investments then you can bet your sweet bippy they will see it as being of massive importance.

Cameron is being drawn deeper into this by the minute. Ultimately this is capable of bringing down the government of our country.


.

Well there you go turns out it may do some good after all.

Earl

 

[movietub]

The Murdoch Empire is so big that if it gets into much more trouble this will be reflected all over the stock market. If this adversely affects people's savings and investments then you can bet your sweet bippy they will see it as being of massive importance.

Cameron is being drawn deeper into this by the minute. Ultimately this is capable of bringing down the government of our country. We do not yet know exactly what damage will be done.

Big companies on the stock market go through turmoil all the time, overall the impact is minimal. A single company failing, even if totally, is not a trend, it's just bad luck for the shareholders. This has no huge impact. You don't think NI shareholders aren't already hedging their bets by buying shares in their competitors?

As for Cameron... Sure there are awkward connections and the media are just waiting to pounce if it is revealed those close to him were actively embroiled in this. But so what? Tony Blair went through more crisis of confidence than I can recall but it didn't make much of a difference to anything.

I really don't see why a few people behaving disgracefully should lead to a high level of disturbance to anything. And it won't, it's just a story that's exciting - ironic as that is given that's why the hacking took place I guess.

The media will hype this and then there will be some sort of closure (NI collapse?) and that will be that. It's like the stories about the 'massive environmental impact' of the BP oil spill. Apparently 10k birds are expected to have been lost. Given that at least 250,000 are killed each day by flying into windows in the USA alone, the actual impact was not even worthy of a shrug.

Swine flu = impact, lots of people died.
Bird flu = impact, that ones probably going to be quite nasty

A few journalists use evil means to get a story = no impact for virtually everyone else. Even if NI do go under, and the stock market has a rough month, and Cameron loses a few points in the opinion polls. The vast majority of people are not influenced, affected or in harms way. It's just a bit of interesting news!

 

[bdw]

It's just a bit of interesting news!

I'll bet RM and DC hope that you are right.

.

 

[Rhyl Lightworks]

The majority don't give a toss.

Earl

You are probably right, but those who do are the ones that are resposible for making laws, etc. and they do give more than a toss.

Incidentally there is another thread on this. See: http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=215415

Barrie

 

[movietub]

I'll bet RM and DC hope that you are right.

.

Hope?! Clearly I'm right, the whole nation is at least vaguely interested in this.

Whatever happens to those at the centre, it still has little potential to impact anyone else.

NB: Could cause the government to fall? Again I refer you to the Blair years. He promised the country that he had proof of WMD's when we went in to Iraq. Spent billions a year on a war no one wanted. Then was forced to admit there were no WMDs. Then continued his time in power and even managed to nominate who would lead next on his exit. And that was just one scandal!

Do you really believe that our government will implode because our PM takes advice from someone that at best could be 'connected' with other people that actually did something wrong? A whole lot of people to make an example of before it gets up to the top.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

The Murdoch Empire is so big that if it gets into much more trouble this will be reflected all over the stock market.

I thought you said this had already had a "big impact"? Now you're arguing "if, then".

The stock of News International has dropped around 20%. That's how much the market thinks it's affected the company.

And, given it's not a tier 1 stock (e.g. a DJIA stock), it's hardly a massive stock market event.

If this adversely affects people's savings and investments then you can bet your sweet bippy they will see it as being of massive importance.

Again, you're talking about what may happen. What's already happened?

i.e. As in, "you probably are very short sighted if you cannot see that it already has (and is) having a big impact."

What's already happened?

What am I too short-sighted to notice?

Cameron is being drawn deeper into this by the minute. Ultimately this is capable of bringing down the government of our country.

It might lead to them not being re-elected. I can't see the government resigning and calling an election.

(And if Cameron did resign, someone else in the coalition would take over. Cameron is only PM, he's not president.)

And, I suspect that, when the election happens in 2015, the effect of this story will be tiny compared to the state of the economy.

We do not yet know exactly what damage will be done.

Very true. Which makes me wonder why you're making remarks about me not seeing what's "already" happened.

Steve

 

[captaincloser]

As the Metropolitan police commissioner, Sir Paul Stephenson comes sharply into focus for his hiring of Andy Coulson's former deputy as a PR advisor when the Met police were trying to dodge reopening the NOW hacking enquiry the story gathers more UK momentum.

Murdoch's picture splashed across Time magazine, The Economist, Newsweek and many other business publications, websites and headlining news bulletins across Europe and the US may not count for much to UKBF readers but that says more about them than the intensity of this story.

Sir Paul Stephenson could resign as early as next week.

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

Until now a lot of the working class never stopped to realise the actual damage a bad network like the murdoch empire really does. It's hidden behind this "harmless fun" curtain for years, and truth be told a lot of folk need a point rammed down their throats before they'll stop to consider it.

IMO any awareness that forces folk to consider what the hell they're up to buying such sh!te is a good thing and hopefully it'll give folk a shake to realise "wait a minute, the rest of the world is right".

For years there's been a divide between the red tops, good papers, and their readers. The red tops justify the divide by selling themselves as the peoples paper, hinting that real / un-sensationalised news was quite snobby but here you go, "here's the juicy stuff", it's ok to read this, we're on your side, we know what you want. People will beleive anything in print, and if this whole saga helps them stop and think twice then it's a good thing.

I've seen it impact a few folk in my family who previously "innocently" bought into it, hopefully it trickles through the world.

It's very easy to be "sniffy" about the red tops and deride the content but you only have to compare the circulation/sales figures of the heavyweights with the tabloids and there is no denying which of the 2 formats people actually prefer to read.
The fact of the matter is that no matter how much pseudo intellectuals try and persuade the mahjority of the British public that they really ought to be reading about Third World debt, coporate lawsuits and share prices, at the end of the day most people actually would much rather hear about other people.
I've been a NOTW reader for years, I also buy the Sunday Mirror and I'm not ashamed of the fact. I buy it for fun, for a bit of light relief from day to day working life and for a bit of a giggle; I also buy these papers because I really can't be bothered to sit through lengthy paragraphs written by so-called intellectuals who fail to put the story across in as succinct and readable a fashion as the tabloids do. They actually do cover current affairs perfectly adequately, often their sources are far more accurate and current than the big shots (dubious as some of these may have been if recent events are anything to go by).
Cheque book journalism is not a new phenomena, it's always gone on and it won't stop now. Politicians and the press have always been bed-fellows and I don't see that this will change either.

The NOTW was (IMO) the best laid out paper on the market, their sports coverage was top class and whilst much of the tittle-tattle and celebrity gossip was pretty irrelevant and pointless, there was plenty to read.
The Sun, Mirror, NOTW etc are all papers designed for the masses which hit it's market perfectly, and it's influence should not be underestimated. The Times/Guardian/Independent etc can only dream of having the same sort of influence.

 

[cmcp]

yip

 

[movietub]

It's very easy to be "sniffy" about the red tops and deride the content but you only have to compare the circulation/sales figures of the heavyweights with the tabloids and there is no denying which of the 2 formats people actually prefer to read.
The fact of the matter is that no matter how much pseudo intellectuals try and persuade the mahjority of the British public that they really ought to be reading about Third World debt, coporate lawsuits and share prices, at the end of the day most people actually would much rather hear about other people.
I've been a NOTW reader for years, I also buy the Sunday Mirror and I'm not ashamed of the fact. I buy it for fun, for a bit of light relief from day to day working life and for a bit of a giggle; I also buy these papers because I really can't be bothered to sit through lengthy paragraphs written by so-called intellectuals who fail to put the story across in as succinct and readable a fashion as the tabloids do. They actually do cover current affairs perfectly adequately, often their sources are far more accurate and current than the big shots (dubious as some of these may have been if recent events are anything to go by).
Cheque book journalism is not a new phenomena, it's always gone on and it won't stop now. Politicians and the press have always been bed-fellows and I don't see that this will change either.

The NOTW was (IMO) the best laid out paper on the market, their sports coverage was top class and whilst much of the tittle-tattle and celebrity gossip was pretty irrelevant and pointless, there was plenty to read.
The Sun, Mirror, NOTW etc are all papers designed for the masses which hit it's market perfectly, and it's influence should not be underestimated. The Times/Guardian/Independent etc can only dream of having the same sort of influence.

Agree that NOTW was a very good paper. They did break some massive stories as well. The fact it was canned pretty much proves that the media is driven by what the consumer wants, not the other way round. The public run the media - it's that simple.

In any normal situation the NOTW would not close, it would sack the guilty parties and possibly the key staff responsible for them. But in the same way that the public want the inside scoop on every story (however it's acquired..) they also want blood and drama when a news company themselves are the victims of a story.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

Murdoch's picture splashed across Time magazine, The Economist, Newsweek and many other business publications, websites and headlining news bulletins across Europe and the US may not count for much to UKBF readers but that says more about them than the intensity of this story.

And what does it say?

Yes, it's a really, really, really big story if you're Rupert Murdoch.

But the general impact of the story?

This isn't like a bank getting in trouble, where there's the risk of a domino effect. It's one group of companies. And, let's be reasonable, the value of most of their assets isn't going to be affected.

Are people going to stop watching the Simpsons? Will a large segment of the Sky Sports audience unsubscribe?

I can't see it.

Sir Paul Stephenson could resign as early as next week.

And, if that happens, he'll be replaced by someone else no-one will have heard of.

Steve

 

[movietub]

Steve,

Good to see someone else lending some gravity to this story!

It literally affects News International and the victims and proponents of the hacking. That's about it.

Bare in mind that BDW was similarly up in arms waiting for the world to burn when the Google privacy headlines were circulating. As if it's possible for anyone to photograph the entire planet whilst mapping all airing WiFi signals without breaking a couple of privacy laws by accident.

Some people just need to believe something massive is occurring and that they are the only ones wise enough to spot it in advance!

 

[Bruvver]

Steve,

It literally affects News International and the victims and proponents of the hacking. That's about it.

What about the advertisers ?
Many withdrew from the NOW, making it unviable short term.

 

[movietub]

What about the advertisers ?
Many withdrew from the NOW, making it unviable short term.

Non-viable? or unviewable? unavailable? NOWT is surely non-viable long term now that it's stopped trading. I think I've missed your point as I can't determine what the word you went for is, and the most likely doesn't make any sense.

To put it more concisely, when I say this only concerns NOTW 'the company' what I mean is that the damage is basically contained to that company. Obviously if they stop trading advertisers have to look elsewhere as do the staff. I could spend weeks listing all the subsequent problems and inconveniences when any large company collapses. But it's still one company that is affected in a particularly significant way - enough to shut down in other words. Doesn't mean it has any noteworthy impact on the world at large, our economy or the man on the street.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

What about the advertisers ?
Many withdrew from the NOW, making it unviable short term.

True. And that really hurt News International.

And it could be said that, by not running ads, the advertisers lost out on potential income.

Will the same advertisers advertise in the Sunday Sun? Or will they spend their advertising money elsewhere? (Or not at all.)

It remains to be seen.

Steve

 

[movietub]

Will the same advertisers advertise in the Sunday Sun? Or will they spend their advertising money elsewhere? (Or not at all.)

It remains to be seen.

Steve

The same people to advertise too still exist. The same market for papers still exists. So I imagine that NOWT advertising revenues will follow the old reads to whichever newspaper they buy instead. Be it NI press or another press.

I can't see how the advertisers have lost out at all. Moreover, apparently (radio 4 interview when the story broke) NOTW was still viable even without the big advertisers. I'm sure the loss of revenue did help RM's decision to shut down but it probably wasn't a massive factor.

 

[Bruvver]

Non-viable? or unviewable? unavailable?

NO !!! unviable

The NOW is a very minor part of a massive empire, Murdoch cleverly amputated it swiftly, a very clever move.
Problem now being his worldwide empire has been infected, adulterated with the fallout.
Will the advertisers choose to use slots beside the Simpsons etc. now?

 

[cjd]

The NOW is a very minor part of a massive empire, Murdoch cleverly amputated it swiftly, a very clever move.

no, he completely bollixed it up, he must feel sick.

He's lost the deal of his lifetime, closed a profitable business that's been around since the 19th century, lost his clout in the UK and is under investigation in the US and Australia. His entire empire is at risk.

But all he had to do was admit he was wrong 2 weeks ago, clean up and do what he's doing now - apologise and get it sorted out in the open- but too late, he cocked it up.

 

[directmarketingadvice]

no, he completely bollixed it up, he must feel sick.

He's lost the deal of his lifetime, closed a profitable business that's been around since the 19th century, lost his clout in the UK and is under investigation in the US and Australia. His entire empire is at risk.

Plus, if it turns out he was doing this in America, who knows what could happen. Prison?

Yes, a bad few weeks for Murdoch and not likely to get good in a hurry.

Steve

 

[thebigIAM]

It's becoming obvious now this is a massive story. It will impact every individual in the UK, and potentially in every other country in the world where Murdoch has influence.

Actually, it shows just how powerful he became when normal people fail to realise just what a grip he has had over our political leaders during the past 30 years or so. I include Thatcher, who failed to refer his takeover of the Times to the Monopolies and Mergers Commission. It was even worse under Blair, who apparently had at least three separate conversations with RM in the week leading up to the Iraq war. Why?
He was reportedly on a mission to attack the BBC, and I bet he would have got the upper hand. And who knows what was about to be unleashed on BSkyB viewers? Another Fox news?

Seriously, Captaincloser has called this right. It will have a massive impact on our politics and on our popular culture. The fallout isn't over yet.

Axing NOW was 'clever"? Nonsense. He would have got totally away with it and got everything he wanted if he accepted Brooks' resignation instead of deciding to do away with the paper. Instead he had to try to rub people's noses in it and do something unexpected, like close an old established paper and axe 200 jobs, instead of Brooks. It was all a message that he was going to do things his way and b* what everyone else thought. The trouble is, it looked so odd. It was obvious people weren't going to accept that he was taking the issue seriously and keep on with it until they got the response they wanted.

And then there's the sheer drama of it all. A Faustian character about to get his paws around the prize he most wanted, only to find it snatched away by some pesky little issue that has been on his periphery all that time. Fate can be as cruel to the powerful as well as everyone else. This is an abject lesson on how not to handle a tricky public relations issue.

 

It's becoming obvious now this is a massive story. It will impact every individual in the UK,

Yup I will have to read "The Sun on Sunday".:|

Earl

 

[thebigIAM]

Two weeks ago, he might have intended to launch it. I doubt he will now. More likely there will be question marks over the future of all NI's UK newspapers (though I hope not!) It wouldn't surprise me if he killed them all off in a fit of pique.

I have mixed views on RM. He has invested here and kept jobs and newspaper titles going but somehow, he got too powerful and it all got out of hand.

 

[crossdaz]

Two weeks ago, he might have intended to launch it. I doubt he will now. More likely there will be question marks over the future of all NI's UK newspapers (though I hope not!) It wouldn't surprise me if he killed them all off in a fit of pique.

I have mixed views on RM. He has invested here and kept jobs and newspaper titles going but somehow, he got too powerful and it all got out of hand.

RM - I thought you was talking about Robert Maxwell - you don't hear much of him these days do you?

The NotW and Sun make money but that's negated by the losses at The Times so I suppose he could just walk away really?

 

[thebigIAM]

I thought you was talking about Robert Maxwell - you don't hear much of him these days do you?

In common with most dead people.

 

[captaincloser]

The first rumblings that Fox News in the US is in serious trouble-albeit the news filed through through the Russia Today tv channel . The claim of course is linked to possible FBI discovery of hacking in the 9/11 tragedy.

Not much interest for the public in the UK but Fox news is a much, much bigger part of the business and of course many other tv channels in the US are owned by the group.

Murdoch is finished but as the family own just 20% of Newscorp then maybe someone can salvage the situation-but for him and his family its over.

The apology in Saturday and Sunday papers is typical Murdoch. The 'leader' speaks but you all have to wait to know what the actual message is...but be assured it's going to be crocodile tears and bull.

There is a line somewhere in Gone With The Wind about the thief who is not sorry that he is a thief but is very sorry that he is going to jail.

 

[captaincloser]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-12296392

For anyone interested ...the ever increasing cast list for the N.O.W story is above.

 

[thebigIAM]

In fairness to Rebekah Brooks, I have long believed that news agencies paid detectives for various titbits of information. Not that I've ever personally witnessed it, but I always understood it to be the case.

I'm surprised there hasn't been more of an outcry at the police, really. If a member of the team protecting the Royal Family sold details, surely that's not a journalistic scandal, but a police one?

 

[bdw]

Bare in mind that BDW was similarly up in arms waiting for the world to burn when the Google privacy headlines were circulating. As if it's possible for anyone to photograph the entire planet whilst mapping all airing WiFi signals without breaking a couple of privacy laws by accident.

Bare in mind? Quite.

 

[bdw]

Comparisons with the Tony Bliar/Middle East situation do not wash here. Blair had the USA behind him on that one and the public has gotten used to politicians lying about what is going on over there. We in the West have almost become conditioned to this because of our oil interests (and I am not condoning it).

This current situation is a mess of epic proportions involving your government, your police and your national press. Bliar's situation was small fry compared to this. A politician telling us lies? Nothing new in that.

I would recommend that forget about me and listen to what Captaincloser has to say about it. If you read his comments from the start of the thread he has called it about right all through the last couple of weeks. I prefer to listen to him.

.

 

[bdw]

"Rupert Murdoch empire 'exploding and unravelling' in US"

Murdoch also faces pressure from American shareholders, including pension funds and banks, who have taken legal action saying it is "inconceivable" that the News Corp's board was unaware of the hacking and other illicit practices, and accusing him of using the company for "personal and political objectives".

http://www.scotsman.com/news/Rupert-Murdoch-empire-39exploding-and.6802815.jp

.

 

[movietub]

"Rupert Murdoch empire 'exploding and unravelling' in US"

http://www.scotsman.com/news/Rupert-Murdoch-empire-39exploding-and.6802815.jp

.

What's your point? No one is claiming that the headlines arn't huge or that the empire isn't suffering.

But it's still not going to have a high impact compared to several other big storied over the last few years.

I really don't get your obsession with linking to sensationalist news stories. The media hypes everything, we already know that.

 

[movietub]

Comparisons with the Tony Bliar/Middle East situation do not wash here. Blair had the USA behind him on that one and the public has gotten used to politicians lying about what is going on over there. We in the West have almost become conditioned to this because of our oil interests (and I am not condoning it).

This current situation is a mess of epic proportions involving your government, your police and your national press. Bliar's situation was small fry compared to this. A politician telling us lies? Nothing new in that.

.

Epic proportions? How on earth is this epic? Some journalists finally get nailed for getting their scoop by sickening means? It's not 'our' national press, it's a private company that is affected. Is it epic that once in a while someone proves that bent coppers exist? Or that the government is favourable to supportive media? None of this is remotely a big deal other than the scandal which makes for good reading.

If the entire news international corporation collapses, 200 coppers get sacked and Cameron drops 10% in the polls this will still not be half as big of a deal to you and I as teachers strikes which stop parents getting to work, VAT increases which hit the wallet and swine flu which killed thousands of people.

I'm not saying you're wrong overall, it's just you seem to have no sense of perspective on this issue.

 

[captaincloser]

Sir Paul Stephenson has gone very quickly as predicted and that is Britain's top policeman for those who don't care. or dont seem able to know who he is...

Rebbekah Brookes's arrest is very odd.Yes, she was due to be arrested but why not wait until Wednesday after the select committee enquiry on Tuesday ? She may now be able to duck out of, or at least not answer, some of the trickier questions. James Murdoch who also seems very likely to be arrested is still walking around and I bet there are people in very high places very pleased that she was taken in early allowing for the above scenario to play out on Tuesday.

Hopefully this select committee on Tuesday will be more business-like than the Keith Vaz led fiasco last week. As one commentator said-it was more like an edition of Minder - Dreadful amateur dramatics in a production of the Spanish Inquisition. Truly a shocking example with silly Mps over-acting and acting badly.. Tuesday should be much better.

The US inquiry into 9/11 victim hacking now seems a bit fanciful-the tip off would appear to be thin but the Vultures will get to Murdoch in the USA soon enough. Its over for him remains my bet. A spent force.

 

[Doodle-Noodle]

Sir Paul Stephenson has gone very quickly as predicted and that is Britain's top policeman for those who don't care. or dont seem able to know who he is...

Rebbekah Brookes's arrest is very odd.Yes, she was due to be arrested but why not wait until Wednesday after the select committee enquiry on Tuesday ? She may now be able to duck out of, or at least not answer, some of the trickier questions. James Murdoch who also seems very likely to be arrested is still walking around and I bet there are people in very high places very pleased that she was taken in early allowing for the above scenario to play out on Tuesday.

Hopefully this select committee on Tuesday will be more business-like than the Keith Vaz led fiasco last week. As one commentator said-it was more like an edition of Minder - Dreadful amateur dramatics in a production of the Spanish Inquisition. Truly a shocking example with silly Mps over-acting and acting badly.. Tuesday should be much better.

The US inquiry into 9/11 victim hacking now seems a bit fanciful-the tip off would appear to be thin but the Vultures will get to Murdoch in the USA soon enough. Its over for him remains my bet. A spent force.

Have to say I think this is only the start of the dominos.........there's an awful lot more to come and I think you're right Captain, the repercussions are, and will continue to be, epic.

 

[bdw]

I really don't get your obsession with linking to sensationalist news stories.

Obsession? Do you think I have an obsession? :|

I thought I was only expressing an opinion that is shared by many others - but then perhaps they are all obsessed too?

.

 

[thebigIAM]

If the entire news international corporation collapses, 200 coppers get sacked and Cameron drops 10% in the polls this will still not be half as big of a deal to you and I as teachers strikes which stop parents getting to work, VAT increases which hit the wallet and swine flu which killed thousands of people.

Ultimately, it could weaken the voice of the press, and yours with it.

 

[Rhyl Lightworks]

One thing that hadn't occurred to me until the Guardian pointed it out today, is that most of the main policemen, politicians and employees/owners of News Corporation caught up in this scandal, and who seem to regard themselves as above the law, are likely to be Masons.

Barrie