Web Designer giving me grief

[perfection]

Hiya Folks,

i recently asked someone who i know but lives in Scotland who is a freelance web designer to make me a website. The website has nothing but errors i now have a website without a functioning shopping cart. He says he will get it fixed over the weekend and this was friday evening. Its now sunday afternoon and still no fix.. i sent him an email this morning and asked him if it will get fixed today as i need the cart functioning. i get an email back saying
stop harassing me ive answered this quesion already. he hasn't even answered me on this and it seems he is fobbing me off..

just about 30 minutes ago he was abusive and rude on msn and i have kept the chat history to what he has said .. small transcript of what he said.

Him says
**** tard
have you got a brain disfunction?

Me says
what you talking about

Him says
fyi
i don't have to fix a single thing

Me says
it aint working and its broken

Him says
i've fulfilled everything so far, and for a couple of small errors you don't stand much chance in court.

a couple of small errors ?? i dont have a functioning shopping cart

no contract was signed but i have detailed invoices sent from him on what was going to be covered on the website.

just recently he has sent me an email stating

one more email, and i block your emails too.
then you will have no form of communication.

you will only be notified when any other changes occur.



where do i stand if i was to take him to court.

Thanx for any advice

Perfection

 

[cmcp]

Two questions:

what does your contract say about accepting the website?

how much did you pay for the website?

 

[perfection]

Hiya cmcp

i paid £1200 for a website built around opencart ( Open Source Shopping Cart Solution )
No contract was signed but invoices stating what was going to be done and the payments. Each invoice was for £300 and states whats going to be done. Alot of the information on the invoices hasn't be done either as i look over them.

Ivoice breakdown

Invoice 1

Job: Basic Overview, Domain Name etc.

Description: Page design service (.psd on project completion)

Invoice 2

Job: Basic Overview, Domain Name etc.

Description: Additional work to letsallbuy.com
Style the top right area of site
Introduce collapsible side navigation
Logo and invoice template ( invoice template not complete )

Invoice 3

Job: Basic Overview, Domain Name etc.

Description: Additional work to letsallbuy.com
cross browser additional style and any covered in this cycle.
(didn't comply with cross browser compatbility ie 6 as he said its not needed but website doesn't work in i.e 6)
introduce 3rd column functionality to Open Cart
add some final branding for presence (liase with Me about upsell)
create basic WordPress blog theme and install on sub domain( wasn't requested)

Because a template was created over the top a functioning shopping cart should be available, but clearly it isn't.

 

[cmcp]

Sounds like you need professional advice.

The spec is very vague. £1200 I guess is an amount I'd pursue, but he could've quite simply met the minimum for each of those points.

If you've not got clear milestones and standards laid down it's open to interpretation.

 

[perfection]

yeah i can understand that but the site doesn't have a functioning shopping cart. When the open cart was installed it should be able to add products to the cart.. At first it was working but because there was an error in the cart when you try to remove a single item it gave a 404 error.. He said he will look at that and now theres no functioning cart.

Also at the start of this which i forgot to mention he threatened to take the site down and have it sent to me by email which wouldn't be a functioning site.. i have the transcript to prove this..

 

[E Storey]

Wasn't called Dave was he?

 

[perfection]

Hiya E Storey,

Sorry no he wasn't called Dave.

Perfection

 

[kjmcculloch]

It's a hard lesson, but paying so much upfront and without a contract is probably not something you will do again. Personally I would stop dealing with him via MSN or EMail and start doing it via letters send recorded delivery. I am not a lawyer, but I would suggest the first thing to do is send a letter detailing fully the problems with the site and give a realistic deadline (2 weeks) to fix these. Make sure you send it signed for and keep copies.

Kris

 

[saxondale]

site needs a lot more than a checkout finishing.

 

[perfection]

site needs a lot more than a checkout finishing.

What do you suggest needs doing to it..

 

[saxondale]

What do you suggest needs doing to it..

sorry, I`m known for been blunt LOL

terms and conditions?

contact details?

stock?

etc, etc, etc


your giving the guy grief over not sorting one small part AND during a weekend, looks like classic anger displacment to me

 

[perfection]

hiya,

Yeah the terms and conditions are going to be added at a later date.
Contact details will also be on there too. I asked the web designer to put my info in the footer area and he mentioned the footer is editable in the admin section. the footer is the about section.

As for stock i have lots of stock to put on but because the site doesn't have a fully functioning cart i stopped putting that on and wanted to find out whats best practice to get this guy to do whats agreed and hes stating otherwise.

theres still alot of links to update but because the web designer has been an ass about it all ive stopped and wanted to get some advice on the matter at hand

Perfection

 

[perfection]

the web designer did revert back to the default theme of the opencart shopping cart system leaving me with nothing that i paid for.

now when i refresh i get

Not Found

The requested URL /index.php was not found on this server.
Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
Apache Server at letsallbuy.com Port 80

i have no site at all :-(

£1200 down the drain .. surely now i have a claim as i have nothing for what i paid

 

[Wow-Factor]

You can search on line for your local small claims court and process a claim online. You will need to show that youve made contact - and yes that will need to be in writing so a formal letter by special delivery will help...

 

[perfection]

he has now put the site up with less than what i paid for and also he deleted the database of products with what i was selling it took me nearly a month to get on there what i had and he gave no warning as to he was going to delete the complete database.

the site still doesn't have a functioning cart. it allows you to add products but doesn't allow you to remove or amend products. this is not what i paid for and now he aint going to do anymore to it..

Surely this warrants a small claims court to get my money back. also compensation for stress and also time wasted on uploading products to the site.

Perfection

 

[bdw]

this is not what i paid for

Can you prove it?

 

[saxondale]

the web designer did revert back to the default theme of the opencart shopping cart system leaving me with nothing that i paid for.

now when i refresh i get

Not Found

The requested URL /index.php was not found on this server.
Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
Apache Server at letsallbuy.com Port 80

i have no site at all :-(

£1200 down the drain .. surely now i have a claim as i have nothing for what i paid

no, you ring him today, apologise for been a pratt over the weekend and say whatever it takes to get your business going, thats assuming you are serious about been in business.



ps thats the third or fourth time you`ve managed to sneak a link to your site in - the mods frown on this.


edit - just read you want compensation too ................. ROFL.

 

[perfection]

yeah i can prove everything from invoices.. also i don't have a fully functioning website and he deleted the database of products i had on the site.

also it took me a month to get what i had on there and now thats all gone.

i didn't know that you cant link to your site, i didn't know this and also it aint a fully functioning site so and its not a link to it directly and i never did it on purpose.

what do you advise on this matter..

also for you to see what hes done surely you would need a link to the site..

 

[perfection]

no, you ring him today, apologise for been a pratt over the weekend and say whatever it takes to get your business going, thats assuming you are serious about been in business.



ps thats the third or fourth time you`ve managed to sneak a link to your site in - the mods frown on this.


edit - just read you want compensation too ................. ROFL.

why ROFL why do you think that.. also what makes you think i have been a pratt about this.. i have not said anything to warrant you thinking i am a pratt.. at the end of the day a customer is always right.

of course i al serious about my business why do you think i am on here and why do you think i want something done about it. i dont have loads of money to waste on web designers who think they can do a good job..

let me guess do you fit under that category of web designer from the ROFL comment..

 

[saxondale]

what do you advise on this matter..

at the end of the day a customer is always right.

..

ring the guy and say "sorry" .................. get your site up and running, nothing else matters today.




Compensation? time wasted? your acting like every other "pretend" internet based backroom toddler online retailer I read.

Your not a customer and your not "always right"

 

[perfection]

ring the guy and say "sorry" .................. get your site up and running, nothing else matters today.
Say sorry for what ive done nothing wrong, hes the one in the wrong



Compensation? time wasted? your acting like every other "pretend" internet based backroom toddler online retailer I read.
time wasted for putting 200 products on the site that took me nearly a month ..all time wasted

Your not a customer and your not "always right"
if the customer aint always right why do i have a site that doesn't work

those are my responses

 

[Paul Norman]

You can stick on the theme that you have done nothing wrong. Which, in fact, is a fair comment.

But this is business, not the playground. What matters here is getting you a site.

You have some choices.

1. Try to rebuild a relationship with this guy which is healthy and friendly, even if you have to eat unfair quantities of humble pie.
2. If 1 is not possible you cannot continue with the relationship at all. It is eating time and energy. You need to bin this site and start again with another supplier - which will mean paying again. If you cannot afford that, you have to go back to 1.
3. If 2 is possible, you can then, seperate to getting your site live, attempt to recover your £1200. The chances of doing that are modest, but not zero.

If you go with 2, then draw up a simple specification sheet. Include the obvious things on it, like the shopping cart must enable you to upload stock, display stock, and transact sales of stock. Sign a contract.

Those are the serious business answers, not the pleasant comfortable ones.

 

[360interactive]

Perfection,

Please go and get some proper legal advice on this and go through the small claims court if needs be. The more time you spend on this board having to respond to one of the many wannabe 'dragons' the more time your wasting without a working website.

Gather up all the paperwork and emails you have sent between you and the designer, and store it all in a safe place. Make sure you have everything covered otherwise you will be wasting your time. It may just be a case of writing it down as experience, but without any of us knowing the FULL facts none of us can judge.

Also it doesn't take a genius to find out who the designer is from your posts, so be careful you're not opening yourself up to more problems if he finds this thread, or someone tips him off.

Good luck, and hopefully you can come to an agreement with your designer as to how to proceed.

 

[bdw]

Also it doesn't take a genius to find out who the designer is from your posts

I'm getting worried - I can't find him. :redface:

 

[kjmcculloch]

You have had loads of advice to put your issues in writing. Personally I would suggest that if you have paid £1200 to get a website created by someone for whom you only have an email address then you have a lot to learn.

Kris

 

[perfection]

You have had loads of advice to put your issues in writing. Personally I would suggest that if you have paid £1200 to get a website created by someone for whom you only have an email address then you have a lot to learn.

Kris

no i have invoices from him stating whats going to be done with the site. i shall be taking legal action or advice from someone who knows what they are talking about and hopefully get this matter resolved.

he sent me an email saying that the site is now up and running and its working fine .. which its not and also sent me the other files to put on the site myself. ?? put on myself .. thats not what i paid for.. its like going to a mechanic and asking him to do a full service on your car .. he does parts of it charges you full price and then says heres the bits i didn't want to do ive put them in a box, put them on yourself.. thats not right no matter what anyone says

 

[saxondale]

Perfection,

Please go and get some proper legal advice on this and go through the small claims court if needs be. The more time you spend on this board having to respond to one of the many wannabe 'dragons' the more time your wasting without a working website.

Gather up all the paperwork and emails you have sent between you and the designer, and store it all in a safe place. Make sure you have everything covered otherwise you will be wasting your time. It may just be a case of writing it down as experience, but without any of us knowing the FULL facts none of us can judge.

Also it doesn't take a genius to find out who the designer is from your posts, so be careful you're not opening yourself up to more problems if he finds this thread, or someone tips him off.

Good luck, and hopefully you can come to an agreement with your designer as to how to proceed.

who is a "wanna be dragon"?

other than telling the guy to waste his time going to court you seem to be saying the same as everyone else.

 

[bdw]

thats not right no matter what anyone says

It's only wrong if he was contracted to do something that he has not done. Your posts about the actual specification are not very clear.

 

[perfection]

who is a "wanna be dragon"?

other than telling the guy to waste his time going to court you seem to be saying the same as everyone else.

but how am i going to be wasting time going to court. i will seek legal advice first before proceeding. i can liaise with someone at court and they will give the best advice and tell me where i stand and if i have a good case..

obviously i am in the wrong place to ask these questions and take it up with people that will know..

 

[360interactive]

but how am i going to be wasting time going to court. i will seek legal advice first before proceeding. i can liaise with someone at court and they will give the best advice and tell me where i stand and if i have a good case..

obviously i am in the wrong place to ask these questions and take it up with people that will know..

Saxondale is right, if all you have is what you have put down in this thread then it probably will be a waste of time. However, as none of us know what is really going on, it is hard to say.

Get 30 mins of free legal advice before going to the small claims as in my experience, you are unlikely to get any help from them at all. (unless you're paying your court fees, in which case they're all ears)

 

[Paul Norman]

Perfection,

Please go and get some proper legal advice on this and go through the small claims court if needs be. The more time you spend on this board having to respond to one of the many wannabe 'dragons' the more time your wasting without a working website.

Gather up all the paperwork and emails you have sent between you and the designer, and store it all in a safe place. Make sure you have everything covered otherwise you will be wasting your time. It may just be a case of writing it down as experience, but without any of us knowing the FULL facts none of us can judge.

Also it doesn't take a genius to find out who the designer is from your posts, so be careful you're not opening yourself up to more problems if he finds this thread, or someone tips him off.

Good luck, and hopefully you can come to an agreement with your designer as to how to proceed.

If I am going to be subjected to this kind of insult by people who have zero information about who I am, and what I do, then offering advice on these forums seems like an unwise move on my part.

The OP has come here with a problem which is actually relevant to many - because they will not be the only ones in a situation like this. Many of us have tried to answer based on considerable and successful experience in business, although obviously for our answers to be complete we could use more data.

Your legal perspective on the case is of value.

Your insulting manner of speaking, is not. And as we come here to create awareness of our businesses for positive reasons, it might be wiser for posters to be more couteous.

 

[360interactive]

If I am going to be subjected to this kind of insult by people who have zero information about who I am, and what I do, then offering advice on these forums seems like an unwise move on my part.

The OP has come here with a problem which is actually relevant to many - because they will not be the only ones in a situation like this. Many of us have tried to answer based on considerable and successful experience in business, although obviously for our answers to be complete we could use more data.

Your legal perspective on the case is of value.

Your insulting manner of speaking, is not. And as we come here to create awareness of our businesses for positive reasons, it might be wiser for posters to be more couteous.

Paul, before you throw your toys out of the pram, at what point did I direct my comments directly at you?

I was actually referring to a few of saxondales posts, but like he said, he does have a reputation for being somewhat blunt.

 

[kulture]

I was actually referring to a few of saxondales posts, but like he said, he does have a reputation for being somewhat blunt.

I would say somewhat rude and sometimes unhelpful! But that is just my opinion.

To the O/P my impression is that you are a very demanding customer. That you want the designer to do everything and that the designer is expecting to do a lot less for the money. For a complete handholding service which you seem to want, I would expect you to have to pay a lot more than £1200.

To my mind the designer has not managed your expectations properly. If I were you I would find a way to talk to the designer and get him to hand over everything he has done. I would find out where/how the site is hosted and make sure you have proper access and that you can change the password.

I would suggest (but suspect that you will ignore this) that you will be wasting your time going to court. You would be better off sorting out your web site and getting it running.

 

[perfection]

To the O/P my impression is that you are a very demanding customer. That you want the designer to do everything and that the designer is expecting to do a lot less for the money. For a complete handholding service which you seem to want, I would expect you to have to pay a lot more than £1200.

To my mind the designer has not managed your expectations properly. If I were you I would find a way to talk to the designer and get him to hand over everything he has done. I would find out where/how the site is hosted and make sure you have proper access and that you can change the password.

I would suggest (but suspect that you will ignore this) that you will be wasting your time going to court. You would be better off sorting out your web site and getting it running.

i am not a demanding customer but if you got something less than what you paid for you would want to complain aswell.. what if you bought a car drive it down the road and then suddenly the wheel drops off what you going to do pick the wheel up and take it home and think nothing of it ( by the sounds of things from your response that sounds about right) or would you take the car back with the wheel dropped off and demand they fix the problem.. yeah alot of you would chose the latter get the problem fixed by the person who did it, in my case i have a website with functions that are not working properly.. do some of you just give up and think nothing of it if something you paid for goes wrong you want to get it sorted.. he hasn't delivered on what he said in invoices so i want to take further action..

 

[Matt1959]

i am not a demanding customer but if you got something less than what you paid for you would want to complain aswell.. what if you bought a car drive it down the road and then suddenly the wheel drops off what you going to do pick the wheel up and take it home and think nothing of it ( by the sounds of things from your response that sounds about right) or would you take the car back with the wheel dropped off and demand they fix the problem.. yeah alot of you would chose the latter get the problem fixed by the person who did it, in my case i have a website with functions that are not working properly.. do some of you just give up and think nothing of it if something you paid for goes wrong you want to get it sorted.. he hasn't delivered on what he said in invoices so i want to take further action..

thing is, this sort of situation often crops up whereby you have a choice of adhering to a principle or not (he didnt fulfil the order, therefore in principle I'm going to have him) On the other hand all that matters is having a working website and if the easiest and cheapest way of getting that is to eat humble pie and get him to finish it, then thats a good option. Principles get in the way of logic sometimes imo. Only you though know the full story and really whether this guy will indeed complete..

its a hard thing to swallow though I agree but if you swallow pride and he does it, you'll have the satisfaction of having one over on him in a way that benefits you - tis the cleverer way of working really

 

[kulture]

I would disagree with you. A web site is not a car. You did not specify exactly what work you wanted done, nor which bits you would do vs what the designer would do. You have a high expectation of a designer who has not finished a site and there is a bug and you wanted it fixed ASAP over the weekend. You are looking like a high maintenence customer and the price does not reflect this.

The designer should have quoted you a lot more but did not. The designer should have managed your expectations better, but did not. The designer has almost certainly spent many hours on your work, and would expect compensation for this. You have already paid in previous invoices, which implies acceptance of the work done to date. The most you could argue over is the final £300, and it is not worth your time.

 

[kjmcculloch]

Hiya Folks,

one more email, and i block your emails too.
then you will have no form of communication.


Perfection

When I suggested you dealt with someone you only had an email address for I was going by the information you provided above.

There is a proper way to deal with these things, and in my opinion this is not it.

Kris

 

[Unicora]

It seems a shame that you are having problems with this web designer. There has been allot of advice and comments on this thread and while some were quite blunt there is good advice.

The main problem is that you did not sign a contract and handed over a resonable sum before the work was completed without meeting the designer or getting a phone number etc.

I can tell you know that you will struggle to take legal action agaist him and it will be more expence. Whether you are in the right or wrong, and there is always two sides to any story, the best way to get this sorted is to send a polite email apologising for the current communications and explain without placing blame that you do require the site to be working. Try not to demand a deadline as this is most likely the reason you are in the situation you are. Keep things polite even if he decides to be insulting.

Once the site is up and running ask for a copy and change to a new host and you will not have to deal with him in the future.

I can understand your frustrations and it is a lesson learned about not getting a contract signed and handing over that kinda cash with only an email for contact.

I hope you do get this sorted and if I can be of any help just let me know.

 

[LicensedToTrade]

In any other situation I would suggest you make your peace with the designer, get the site sorted and then move on. However I am little concerned that he so readily deleted your stock database and reverted to the default template.

How are you set-up for hosting? Who hosts your site, the designer? Who has control over the domain? If the answer to any of these questions is 'the designer' then you cannot safely say that you have future proofed your security. If you fall out with him again he could redirect your website to something a little less savoury or he could delete the whole thing.

Be cautious.

 

[jamie1183]

Whats the URL, PM me Ill take a look over it for you.