Get off my back Ranks. I tried to call a truce. 3 shops were all that showed up on a quick Google search in the top 10.
As for your 3 day lease. I am damned sure there are lots of landlords that would love punters to sign up in that time. Some of the leases however are 40 -50 pages long and many contain lots of small print particularly the FRI.
That means a solicitor and they will need to justify their £1,000 + fee. There is no way they are going to report in 3 days.
BTW. if your so knowledgeable on the subject. Pray do tell us what your experience in retail and opening shops is.
I'll tell you mine. I have opened around 10 in the past and had 4 wine bars.
Now guys I suggest before you have a pop at me again. Make sure that
1)You can show equal experience
2) Gina said she would be opening her shop in a 'few' weeks. Not a month or two. A few weeks in my book is 21 days. 2 have gone since then. I suggest then that she gets on with it and anyone that wants to take a punt. Let me know. I'll give you 21 to one on a £5.
Now lets see who has the confidence to back her up.
And finally. No - I am not mentoring you Gina. Your too stubborn to listen to good advice. To arrogant to accept my offer into an insight on how the gold dealers really work. You could have learned at lot from those guys. As it is this venture will fall flat on it's face guaranteed.
Then we will no doubt get another 'great' business idea from you. Can't wait.
Now then Ranks. Don't forget to let us all know your expertise in negotiating and appraising leases.
Rob
As for your 3 day lease. I am damned sure there are lots of landlords that would love punters to sign up in that time. Some of the leases however are 40 -50 pages long and many contain lots of small print particularly the FRI.
That means a solicitor and they will need to justify their £1,000 + fee. There is no way they are going to report in 3 days.
BTW. if your so knowledgeable on the subject. Pray do tell us what your experience in retail and opening shops is.
I'll tell you mine. I have opened around 10 in the past and had 4 wine bars.
Now guys I suggest before you have a pop at me again. Make sure that
1)You can show equal experience
2) Gina said she would be opening her shop in a 'few' weeks. Not a month or two. A few weeks in my book is 21 days. 2 have gone since then. I suggest then that she gets on with it and anyone that wants to take a punt. Let me know. I'll give you 21 to one on a £5.
Now lets see who has the confidence to back her up.
And finally. No - I am not mentoring you Gina. Your too stubborn to listen to good advice. To arrogant to accept my offer into an insight on how the gold dealers really work. You could have learned at lot from those guys. As it is this venture will fall flat on it's face guaranteed.
Then we will no doubt get another 'great' business idea from you. Can't wait.
Now then Ranks. Don't forget to let us all know your expertise in negotiating and appraising leases.
Rob
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Ok if you want mate, no problem. The last 5 shops I had anything to do with taking on (either for a colleague or a local charity) we were in within a week, and contracts drawn up and signed within 2. These were properties small in size, but on High street locations, probably similar to the type of shops the OP is thinking of.
Anyway, now we have (not) established our experience is in these matters, let me say all I was pointing out is your statement read, to me, that there is a huge lack of available commercial properties, which we all know is not the case in most if not all of our towns. And Im sure others will agree its a fairly quick and painless experience to obtain one, and move in. Especially in the current climate.
Jay
Anyway, now we have (not) established our experience is in these matters, let me say all I was pointing out is your statement read, to me, that there is a huge lack of available commercial properties, which we all know is not the case in most if not all of our towns. And Im sure others will agree its a fairly quick and painless experience to obtain one, and move in. Especially in the current climate.
Jay
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M
MASSEY
- Original Poster
- #47
I went with a pal to a market stall in bahm the other day i have visited before myself.
They give good prices, he scrapped a chain and a ring , he got over £400
Its a cut throat business, you have to have a certain personlity to do it.
I have a knowledge on gold that helps me distinguish the value and weather its real or not, because i myself have bought gold off people in a rush to sell.
I gave them a really bad price though :redface:
Some times i dont know how i sleep so well
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It is fairly possible to get a lease start to finish in under 3 weeks. If L`s solicitor and T`s solicitor are both taking interest, they can sort it out in 10 working days. It gets slower and slower as more parties are involved. Example sublet or buying a leasehold business.
Dont get me started on covenants or property market either resedential or commercial. Something I love.
Dont get me started on covenants or property market either resedential or commercial. Something I love.
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WELL EXCUSE ME FOR THINKING THAT YOU DON'T KNOW DIDLY SQUAT ABOUT DEALING IN SCRAP GOLD.
WHO POSTED THIS. ??????????????
Anyone know anything about dealing in scrap gold?
I am thinking of starting a scrap gold business as a sideline, any advice would be welcome
Now you keep coming back trying to undermine my posts Gina ( and btw it is OEE not oldeaglewotsit ) and frankly I can't be bothered with you anymore because you are as said arrogant and in total self-denial. You mark these word then because if you go ahead with this crazy idea you will have them ringing in your ears for a long - long time.
1) Even a small shop with no premium. No fitting out costs. No decorationis is going to cost you £300-£400 a week with rates. Utilities and insurance. Of yes.
Don't forget the high cost of insurance. In addition to which an insurance £10,000 safe is not going to be cheap or is a sophisticated burglar alarm.
Add all that up and your talking at least £500 quid a week basic overheads. Then of course we got staff.
2) Shops and your talking a 45 hr week. Employing some-one or even paying yourself a basic min wage at least £300 with N.I.
We are now up to at least £800 a week basic expenses.
3) Scrap gold is as been suggested by at least a couple of other sane members too a highly competitive business with volume trades taking place at less than a 10% margin. A margin so small in real terms it can be wiped out by the end of the same trading day. Risky business at the best of times.
You Gina with have to take over £8,000 a WEEK - probably in mostly cheap lightweight chains & bracelets to even break even.
MARK THESE WORDS THEN. IT AINT GOING TO HAPPEN. END OF STORY.
Now must dash. I am already mentoring 4 yougsters from the forum. All of whop are extremely grateful for my help and now I have a PM from another member wanting my advice.
I really do suggest Gina you stop being so churlish. Your slip is showing as is the chip on your shoulder.
Rob
WHO POSTED THIS. ??????????????
Anyone know anything about dealing in scrap gold?
I am thinking of starting a scrap gold business as a sideline, any advice would be welcome
Now you keep coming back trying to undermine my posts Gina ( and btw it is OEE not oldeaglewotsit ) and frankly I can't be bothered with you anymore because you are as said arrogant and in total self-denial. You mark these word then because if you go ahead with this crazy idea you will have them ringing in your ears for a long - long time.
1) Even a small shop with no premium. No fitting out costs. No decorationis is going to cost you £300-£400 a week with rates. Utilities and insurance. Of yes.
Don't forget the high cost of insurance. In addition to which an insurance £10,000 safe is not going to be cheap or is a sophisticated burglar alarm.
Add all that up and your talking at least £500 quid a week basic overheads. Then of course we got staff.
2) Shops and your talking a 45 hr week. Employing some-one or even paying yourself a basic min wage at least £300 with N.I.
We are now up to at least £800 a week basic expenses.
3) Scrap gold is as been suggested by at least a couple of other sane members too a highly competitive business with volume trades taking place at less than a 10% margin. A margin so small in real terms it can be wiped out by the end of the same trading day. Risky business at the best of times.
You Gina with have to take over £8,000 a WEEK - probably in mostly cheap lightweight chains & bracelets to even break even.
MARK THESE WORDS THEN. IT AINT GOING TO HAPPEN. END OF STORY.
Now must dash. I am already mentoring 4 yougsters from the forum. All of whop are extremely grateful for my help and now I have a PM from another member wanting my advice.
I really do suggest Gina you stop being so churlish. Your slip is showing as is the chip on your shoulder.
Rob
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I haven't read this whole thread, but my wife used (as in left about 1 week ago) to work for a company that bought gold (People post it in).
The business is failing badly- they are not getting enough enquiries (never mind people actually sending the stuff in) to get close to breaking even. (And they accept gold from anywhere in Europe). The price of gold may also have peaked now. All in all, this is an incredibly risky venture- and to rent a shop and try and do this in a relatively small town is insane I think.
The business is failing badly- they are not getting enough enquiries (never mind people actually sending the stuff in) to get close to breaking even. (And they accept gold from anywhere in Europe). The price of gold may also have peaked now. All in all, this is an incredibly risky venture- and to rent a shop and try and do this in a relatively small town is insane I think.
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U
Urban Publications
- Original Poster
- #54
Wow what a debate.
Gina/John/Dave/Frank/Diedre what ever your name is,
The message I am getting from this post is you want to start a new business buying/selling scrap gold
And your USP is fair "price"....wake up and smell the aroma.
Why have these business's come and gone in the blink of an eye, they rip people off, so what is the consumers perception of this new store your going to open on a whim...take it you have carried out market research?
Or is that guess work.
I find it very hard to believe you own a business ideas forum and this is the best you can come up with, and this is the way you go about conducting business start up. I am amazed
Could I also ask if you can tell the difference between platinum/silver/white gold, do you know how to measure carat's of diamonds etc, you need to be able to to give a "Fair" price.
The final thing I am going to say is that if anyone is interested in a retail unit in Holyhead that use to buy and sell gold there will be one on the market in errmmmm about 3-4mths.
Gina/John/Dave/Frank/Diedre what ever your name is,
The message I am getting from this post is you want to start a new business buying/selling scrap gold
And your USP is fair "price"....wake up and smell the aroma.
Why have these business's come and gone in the blink of an eye, they rip people off, so what is the consumers perception of this new store your going to open on a whim...take it you have carried out market research?
Or is that guess work.
I find it very hard to believe you own a business ideas forum and this is the best you can come up with, and this is the way you go about conducting business start up. I am amazed
Could I also ask if you can tell the difference between platinum/silver/white gold, do you know how to measure carat's of diamonds etc, you need to be able to to give a "Fair" price.
The final thing I am going to say is that if anyone is interested in a retail unit in Holyhead that use to buy and sell gold there will be one on the market in errmmmm about 3-4mths.
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for what it's worth we recently took a retail premises on a very busy junction near Liverpool.
it's an office premises, but i think it once used to be a building society or something, because it has a secure door and counter, cash desk and underground safe.
None of the above are relvant or usable in our business, so i too was thinking about the "cash for gold" route, however i must say i have got simply no idea how to value jewellery.
It seems that lots of posters think that this particular market is now dead?
Back to the drawing board then.........
it's an office premises, but i think it once used to be a building society or something, because it has a secure door and counter, cash desk and underground safe.
None of the above are relvant or usable in our business, so i too was thinking about the "cash for gold" route, however i must say i have got simply no idea how to value jewellery.
It seems that lots of posters think that this particular market is now dead?
Back to the drawing board then.........
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- Original Poster
- #56
I cannot believe the rudeness and aggression on this thread
Been the target it of it myself and not sure it's a site i would like an acrive involvement with anymore.
Supposed to be a business forum all i can see is a forum where people want to accuse others of not being what they say they are. I had one guy tell me i might not be for real as my LED website isn't up yet. Despite the fact i display the web address's for both my other companies, which have phone numbers, addresses etc all on them.
Strange forum this one :|
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C
Coppock
- Original Poster
- #57
I cannot believe the rudeness and aggression on this thread
Been the target it of it myself and not sure it's a site i would like an acrive involvement with anymore.
Supposed to be a business forum all i can see is a forum where people want to accuse others of not being what they say they are. I had one guy tell me i might not be for real as my LED website isn't up yet. Despite the fact i display the web address's for both my other companies, which have phone numbers, addresses etc all on them.
Strange forum this one :|
These type of arguments tend to happen a lot....
Some people target competitors, some people have bad days, some people are very very very negative, and some people simply write something that gets misinterpretated by others as abusive or sarcastic...
It's the downside to face-to-face networking.
UKBF is a good place, and threads like this are always an interesting read when you're not part of the argument!
I wouldn't ditch your login details just yet, there's some errr less aggressive threads on here, and you never know who you might meet that could make a real difference to your business!
Jen
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Urban Publications
- Original Poster
- #58
What got my back up was the OP operates a business idea forum with statements like
"If you are looking at starting a new business, or promoting an existing one, then www.businessideasandopportunities.co.uk contains the best free business advice you could possibly wish for."
And then has the nerve to just think on a whim to open up a shop of which they have no prior experience.
So we have reasons for getting our backs up, and yes negative views are sometimes harsh but in my eyes I would prefer people to slate my ideas and give negative feedback. Yes people are no good to get the best from a business.
"If you are looking at starting a new business, or promoting an existing one, then www.businessideasandopportunities.co.uk contains the best free business advice you could possibly wish for."
And then has the nerve to just think on a whim to open up a shop of which they have no prior experience.
So we have reasons for getting our backs up, and yes negative views are sometimes harsh but in my eyes I would prefer people to slate my ideas and give negative feedback. Yes people are no good to get the best from a business.
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BusinessIdeas
- Original Poster
- #59
Youu are on the wrong business ideas forum, mine is www.businessideasandopportunities.co.uk
The one run by john is a totally different forum.
I have today sealed the deal on the shop and I will be opening in just over two weeks time. My partner will be actually running it, and the advice for the gold buying activities is from a long-standing and very trusted friend who has been operating this business model for over 6 years. The gold will be picked up twice a day from the shop by myself or more often if business is brisk. The friend who has the expertise in the business has given us all his buyers details, and this is where we will be reselling the gold and silver on to.
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BusinessIdeas
- Original Poster
- #60
I'm sorry you feel like this, but this really is no whim, and even if it was it is my neck on the line. I have researchedd everything very thoroughly since starting this thread, although I must admit, I hadnt got it all clear at the start and that is why I asked for suggestions. Since then I have moved on very quickly to the point where I have everthing in place to open for business.
Although I am new to this particular business (gold buying), I have huge business eperience in business in general and a lot of people have thanked me and valued my advice and suggestion over the years that I have been a member here.
I do not claim to be any kind of business mentor except in the home collected credit loans business where I specialise in training people to start their own loans business.
Any business ideas advice on my own forum comes from other members as well as myself.
I dont make any money from that forum, its just that I have a keen interest in business ideas and I do like to help people where I can. - Gina
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Urban Publications
- Original Poster
- #61
and even if it was it is my neck on the line. I have researchedd everything very thoroughly since starting this thread,
You say your neck is on the line, I would say your neck has gone off the line and onto the chopping block...with the axeman just sharpening his axe.
A good bit of advice in this thread was to get a table & chairs and set up in the town centre, test the market before you make a massive mistake of going out and signing a shop lease.
If I was going to ever think about going down this route I would almost certainly speak to a few letting agents/landlords (especially property that has been empty more than 6mths) and just play hardface and go in with cash and state you want to test a product/market heres £1000/£2000 give me your shop for 2 mths, if it works then we talk lease if it fails I walk away.
It saves heartache and pressure from legal fees etc etc.
(Me being me I wouldnt go in and offer £1000 try at the lowest and work up take the mick and say £500 for 2mths, they can only say no)
Going back to your idea, you say you have researched it, what research have you done exactly?
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BusinessIdeas
- Original Poster
- #62
My research to date has involved visiting similar businesses in other towns and testing how much they pay for their gold, observing the amount of customers over a 5 hour period in one particular similar operation, to ascertain demand for the service.
I have researched how to work out prices and what type of metals/coins to buy, this involves weighing the gold/silver etc. and calculating what to offer the seller based on the spot price - which is updated twice daily -and allowing for a good % profit.
I have a ready buyer for any precious metals that I acquire.
I have no intention of buying a long lease for this project, the shop I have secured is on very favourable terms, and is in a really good position, almost exactly as you suggested in your post.
The fittings and fixtures required are minimal, we wont be selling anything from the shop so no need for fancy display, it will be neat and tidy yet functional, with a compelling name and signage.
While I feel I have researched this to a reasonable degree, I am not at all assuming that this will necessarly be a success, it would be unwise to claim that a business will be successful in one location, just because it works in another. I have worked out my break even.
However I have reached the point where the only way to know if it will work, is to try it for real.
I am quite prepared for - and can easily afford -any losses I might incurr from this course of action - Gina
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Urban Publications
- Original Poster
- #64
All well and good with the research you have done but to me it looks like you have researched the business not the consumers perceptions on the said buisness venture....this is my main concern, too many people have been ripped off. And many of these companies have come and gone in a very short period of time.
Why dont you go on survey monkey and create a quick survey for what people really think.(Dont go mad try multiple choice 8 questions, state that you dont want any capture details email name etc)
Post it all over FB and ask friends of friends to do the survey....dont ask "yes" people like the family and close friends etc.
We did this type of research and posted it all over the place on FB and within 24hrs we had 279 results, gives you a dam good idea of what people think
(Not sure how many results you are allowed with free survey) but you will get an idea, even if its a 100 responses.
And have you been buying stock today, has this got anything to do with you.
http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=164531
For the record, still think your crazy
Why dont you go on survey monkey and create a quick survey for what people really think.(Dont go mad try multiple choice 8 questions, state that you dont want any capture details email name etc)
Post it all over FB and ask friends of friends to do the survey....dont ask "yes" people like the family and close friends etc.
We did this type of research and posted it all over the place on FB and within 24hrs we had 279 results, gives you a dam good idea of what people think
(Not sure how many results you are allowed with free survey) but you will get an idea, even if its a 100 responses.
And have you been buying stock today, has this got anything to do with you.
http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=164531
For the record, still think your crazy
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BusinessIdeas
- Original Poster
- #65
Yes, of course I know how to check if it is real or not, I never did say that weighing was all that was involved. I have an associate that has been in the gold trading business for over six years so I have all the experience and expertise very close at hand. No I'm not mad
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OK. We need to regain a sense of reality about this. There are a lot of companies who have driven the "scam" side of this, who spend tens of thousands of marketing and are flash in the pan companies who will go pop and die a quiet death.
But, buying scrap precious metals and stones is an industry that has been around for hundreds of years. There are hundreds of reputable buyers who do just this, and many of them are people that have been in the industry most of their working life, they have good profitable businesses, and enjoy a good living, and have a good bank of reputable customers.
The thing is that that all of such businesses have operated quietly off the radar, known by the antiques dealers, the secondhand companies, the house clearance companies, and jewellers. Their customers deal with maybe only one or two such traders at a time, and relationships are based on trust, and proper business relationships where there is integrity, proper prices, and respect.
No-one here should go around shouting stupid, and saying that you can't have a proper business doing this. Of course you can, and anyone that says otherwise is naive and as much a victim of the cash for gold scams as the poor muggins that send off the envelopes.
To the OP - If you do know the market and the expertise etc, then all I could say is that most of the traders that have been in business long term, and have made good money out of it don't do it by buying from joe public and keeping shops. It might be a quick way into the market, but it's not going to get you the decent clients that you'll need if you want to be in the business still in 20 years time.
But, buying scrap precious metals and stones is an industry that has been around for hundreds of years. There are hundreds of reputable buyers who do just this, and many of them are people that have been in the industry most of their working life, they have good profitable businesses, and enjoy a good living, and have a good bank of reputable customers.
The thing is that that all of such businesses have operated quietly off the radar, known by the antiques dealers, the secondhand companies, the house clearance companies, and jewellers. Their customers deal with maybe only one or two such traders at a time, and relationships are based on trust, and proper business relationships where there is integrity, proper prices, and respect.
No-one here should go around shouting stupid, and saying that you can't have a proper business doing this. Of course you can, and anyone that says otherwise is naive and as much a victim of the cash for gold scams as the poor muggins that send off the envelopes.
To the OP - If you do know the market and the expertise etc, then all I could say is that most of the traders that have been in business long term, and have made good money out of it don't do it by buying from joe public and keeping shops. It might be a quick way into the market, but it's not going to get you the decent clients that you'll need if you want to be in the business still in 20 years time.
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Clearly targeted at me:
The problem is the OP does not know anything about the industry, is not an antique dealer, does not know how to value metals, and is really another 'cash4gold' or whatever they are called business.
As you said yourself, most of the established dealers do not make their money from buying from the public. Hence I stand by my earlier post.
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Urban Publications
- Original Poster
- #70
No one has disputed this and if you read the OP's comments she has said in her post that the shop will not need fitting out as we do not intend to sell gold, just like the business's that do rip off the customers.
If the OP had come to the table and said we are opening up a jewellers and we will stock cheap jewellery to antique jewellery and have a keen interest in buying and selling gold then the response would of been so so different.
Alot of people you mentioned will be the Jewellers with the fancy displays and the 10k rings in the window.
Not a basic shop with a table, chair and a smile saying we buy your gold and pay the best prices.
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BusinessIdeas
- Original Poster
- #72
I do know how to value metals and I am not trying to operate along the lines of the "post your gold" merchants. You may not believe what I say, but I have not one but two friends who are qualified metallurgists and also the friend I mentioned earlier who has been buying and selling gold for over 6 years. Without this source of expertise, then I would never go down this route. There are so many assumptions made on this thread, its quite surprising really.
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So YOU don't know how to value metals then, which is what I said. Your friends do. Are they going to work for you day to day?
Also, how is this different from the Cash for Gold places on TV? You say it is, but I can't see how.
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OP - One suggestion that I would make if you do go with the shop is to phone your local police station and go and have a chat. Introduce yourself, make friends with the local police that cover your shopping centre etc.
Don't underestimate the nerve of people that will look to sell other people's belongings. So make sure that you have sufficient steps to ensure that you can't be misused in such a way.
You'll find too that the local police will already have a list of people that you'll want to avoid, and a little bit of information sharing and friendly relations with the police can go a long way in your industry.
Don't underestimate the nerve of people that will look to sell other people's belongings. So make sure that you have sufficient steps to ensure that you can't be misused in such a way.
You'll find too that the local police will already have a list of people that you'll want to avoid, and a little bit of information sharing and friendly relations with the police can go a long way in your industry.
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BusinessIdeas
- Original Poster
- #78
It will be different form the "post your gold" because, as I said in my previous post, we will be offering a fair price to the customer. It is well known to everyone by now that a lot of the "post your gold" merchants use murky practices to part the public from their gold at really low prices. just google cash4gold scam. Even if some of these companies are above reproach, the perception has spread that they are crooks, so people are more likely to deal with a local buyer where they can be given a price for their items there and then, and accept or decline immediately without having to return a cheque within a certain time of the date on the cheque (which is deferred). So it is all open, fair and above board and can be seen to be such.
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When we had the house clearance business, back in the earlier days when it was a lot more about buying contents etc, we used to get very large amounts of calls that basically boiled down to, "I need a fix, can you come and buy my landlords's furniture". You develop techniques to identify and screen them out very quickly, we found that in these instances everything was always described "virtually brand new". We used to insist on seeing reciepts, and the phone usually went dead. But, it's an eyeopener as to just how many people will try it on, we also used to screen based on addresses etc.
Worth considering while you're thinking about the location and presentation of your shop. This isn't the market that you want to attract. Particularly if we're heading toward times of financial hardship and benefit cuts.
Worth considering while you're thinking about the location and presentation of your shop. This isn't the market that you want to attract. Particularly if we're heading toward times of financial hardship and benefit cuts.
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