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Wedding Photographer Business

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phil79

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May 19, 2009
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Hi all,

 I’m currently looking into the possibility of getting trained up as a wedding photographer. It’s still very early days and my initial thinking would be that it would be on a part time basis while I still hold down my full time job.

 Are there any photographers on the forum or anyone else who can offer any advice?

 In particular, what is the profit margin like on jobs?

Wedding photographers seems to be expensive for weddings! I would be keeping my overheads very low, office at home etc.

 All advice welcome…
 
From experience of friends, it is very much a referral led business which takes time to grow.

Chargers are reasonably high, but then so are expectations; you will really need to deliver the goods to grow your business.

You should shadow an extablished photographer for while - act as free gopher - to learn the ropes (they might even pass work on to you)
 
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My friend has spent the last 2 years working with a wedding photographer in order to set up in his own business

1st things 1st - can you take a photo? it's not just a case of pointing a camera and hitting the button. As well as the technical considerations of lighting, shadows etc there is also the artistic considerations of what makes a good photo. have you got an "eye" for it

Also, can you talk to people - you need to make them engage with you,smile, be happy to hang around and get into and out of shots quickly, you have to herd them around and you don't have time to waste - you also have to be able to deal with the other folk milling around taking shots with you.

so it's very much a people business too.

You might only spent 5/6 hours shooting at a wedding, but you can spend 30/40 hours touching up photos, making up the catalogue/web page - then there is making up albums etc.

Although you could work that around a regular 9-5 job and just do shoots at the weekend.

Why the interest in it as a new business?
 
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Thanks for the replies.

I’m very much outgoing so working with people is something I would enjoy, although I’m sure some people will be challenging!

In terms of committing time to the job, it is easy to think it is just a matter of attending the wedding for 4 or 5 hours but there is a lot of additional work which goes on behind the scenes.

I’m a bit of a computer nerd as well, designing websites and working with photos – so that end of it I would enjoy as well. I also enjoy taking photos too but I’m not just going to jump straight into it. I will get properly trained in wedding photography to learn the skills properly.

My better half has a relative who is getting married in a few months and they don’t want to pay for an official photographer, so I might use that as my first wedding and do it FOC. I would need to however get myself enrolled on one of the courses.

I would be interested in any other feedback users can offer, especially the views of any photographers on the forum....
 
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I was speaking with a photographer recently who said he avoids wedding work! Apparently theres a lot of pressue from various demanding people. He much prefers commericial work.

I'm not saying don't do it - just recalling a conversation ;)
 
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As a rule I only do 1 wedding a year as it interferes too much with my editorial work (and that's under protest!)
You can make a good living at it but you have to price your skills/experience accordingly. Main thing to do is to get some real world experience by shooting a friends wedding or go as a 2nd shooter, see if you like it and then think about your business model.
The technical side of photography can be easily taught, the people skills and composition is something you can learn, but I think it's something you a born with.
Weddings usually start at around £99 going up to £6000+.Trusting someone to get the pictures right first time, using £20,000+ worth of equipment and employing a photographer who has years of experience is what you pay for.
To break it down a wedding booking looks something like this...
2 hours initial meeting with bride and groom
12 hours day of wedding
12 hours next day recovering!
3-6 hours editing images, uploading galleries etc
2-3 Hours sticking album together (if they order an album)
1-2 hours delivering album in person (or post if you wish)
(Online galleries cut down the time you have to spend at your computer)

You will also require PLI, equipment insurance and a back up body/flash is a must. One of the main reasons I've never gone down the wedding route is that photographing the same subject on nice warm weekend summer days, for 40 years, would drive me slightly... mad...
 
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Good luck!

wedding_couple.jpg


dsc_0336_37_1-jpg.jpg
 
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Yes there is a significant time investment involved – and indeed money. I will have to do a lot more research into it.

I will certainly look forward to doing the weddings above! :)
 
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Thanks guys, very helpful indeed. And thanks for the inspiration of the sky news story - very encouraging :)
 
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Overheads are relatively low for this line of work but if you ever add the word "wedding" to anything you automatically increase the price 4 fold. Obviously bad news for the bride to be (or at least her father) but also for anyone in the business as your cost of advertising is going to be much higher.

Personally wouldn't touch wedding photography, you simply have to get it right first time every time.... you cant ask them to get a new cake because you messed up the photo of the cutting. Your initial up front costs are also very high, you have to have at least 2 of everything you think you will need in case of failure. I have been second shooter on a few weddings and on one occasion both of his £3000 bodies died during the shoot and so it was a very paniced sprint to the nearest Jessops to buy a replacement.

If you have the skill, the money for the initial kit, the nerve for the high pressure and the patience to build a reputation then it certainly it can be a profitable businsess. Many photographers I know however prefer other types of photography where the £ per hour of shooting is lower but the bottom line profit can be equal and stress much lower.
 
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Astaroth said:
Overheads are relatively low for this line of work but if you ever add the word "wedding" to anything you automatically increase the price 4 fold.
Click to expand...

http://photo.net/learn/wedding/equipment
Not sure where you get the ideas from that overheads are low, also the prices i charge for commercial work, far exceeds what i could demand for wedding work.

If you have a good eye, and you had spent years doing photography to a semi pro good hobby level with the best equipment you could get hold off, i would think it was a good idea. As it is, this is a flash in the pan idea of "I dont know what to do, so i will do this..."

This forum is full of
- I want to be a lock smith, is there a course?
- I want to be a web designer, as i have found a cracked copy of dreamweaver?
- I want to be an electrician, is there a 6 month course i can go on?
- Does it take long to become a corgi registered gas fitter.

When all those trades (including photography) needs years of experience.

I only work commercial photography and turn down wedding work every time. Its basically the absolute bottom of the ranking in pro photography and thought of as low by other pro photographers for a good reason.

That industry is full of people who have been on a 2 week training course, that cost them £2K, and then they think they will pop out the other end a pro photographer. When actually people who have just done a 3 year degree struggle to do it.
http://maverickartinflux.blogspot.com/
Like this extremely talented and incredibly outgoing peoples girl i work with regularly and only graduated last June.

My camera body 5DMk2 cost me £2K, the lens i put on the front for most of my work in studio and outside is the Canon 70-200 2.8 IS which costs about £1600, The 50mm 1.2 - £1300, and a 10-22mm - £600. Then you have the flash, memory cards (a good one is fast and wont buffer so you can take more photos without shouting, "hold on its just writing images" which makes you look like a real knob in front of clients, bags, spare batteries, Tripods, etc. It costs a damn fortune to get the right kit, and yes it really does make a HUGE difference.

If i bought the Canon 70-200 4.0 lens for £600 (which looks identical to the 2.8 lens above i have), it is much darker and wont let as much light through, in general you need to have the shutter speed about 2 or 3 stops slower for the same pics. So when your stood about 20 feet away, trying to take sneaky shots of people without them knowing using the zoom, to catch candid shots is almost impossible as you get too much motion blur.

The Canon 50mm 1.2 lens is incredible, you can take photos in the dark with no flash and it looks like you have a search light in the room.

Photography is a creative art, not a job. You can either do it, or not.

Pencils are free in Ikea, but only a handful of people can draw with them.

Also this is a HUGE thread i was part off
http://www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=98688
Showing all the types of equipment and how much to pay for it. Im actually saying in here to get cheap stuff, as thats all that is needed for the job he wanted to do.

I dont do wedding photography, as if it goes wrong, i dont want some bride or her dad on my case about the once in a life time day that you were paid to photograph well.

Check out these vids, they are brilliant and have loads of true pro photographers explaining what equipment they have and why they have chosen it, also how they got into the industry.

Search for "Whats in the bag" on this profile.
http://www.youtube.com/damonwebster#p/search/1/25WmoFKNAD
 
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Myself and my husband run a wedding photography business (www.limeleafweddings.com) and have spent a great deal of time ensuring we have the best equipment and knowledge for the job.

I think as long as you know what to expect (the whole day is spent thinking on your feet, anticipating what is happening next, and making sure you have the right lens and settings for the environment and lighting conditions) while appearing calm, confident and personable to the couple and guests, you will be fine.

I would recommend getting the best equipment and low light lenses you can afford (the Canon L 24-70 2.8 and 70-200 2.8 as recommended by da8iwr are great for weddings) and making sure you fully understand exposure so you down blow out the highlights on the white dress.

Wedding photography is like any other profession, you get some people who do it for the love of the job and want to do the best job possible for their clients, and some who do it for the love of the money who aren't so bothered about learning the techniques and investing in their equipment and are quite happy to go along with a semi pro cam, kit lens and auto settings.

Wedding photographers do charge highly, but once you take into consideration the amount of post processing, amount to invest in equipment, backup and storage solutions, insurance, marketing, and the fact that you can do a maximum of 1-2 weddings a week and only for about half the year (although Winter weddings are getting more popular) you see that on the whole, the costs are relative to the amount of work and overheads involved.

One final piece of advice is to take your storage and backup of images very seriously- you don't want to ever be in a situation where you need to ring bride and tell her that your memory card failed and there are no pictures of her £20k+ wedding day! We have never been in this position but I know a few who have!
 
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These guys make it sound as if its a rocket science or something:D at the end of the day it is just aiming the camera and clicking a button. the only difference in the quality is because of the camera used not the "skill". how hard can it be to "catch the right moment"


go for it. whatever business idea you have, these guys will always find the flaws and not pat you on the shoulder. BELIVE ME I have experienced it probably the most in this forum.

just go by your gut instinct. good luck:)
 
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DancingWithPoodles said:
the only difference in the quality is because of the camera used not the "skill". how hard can it be to "catch the right moment"


go for it. whatever business idea you have, these guys will always find the flaws and not pat you on the shoulder. BELIVE ME I have experienced it probably the most in this forum.
Click to expand...

I suppose the only reason people paint well is because they buy good paints, or people draw well is because they have super duper pencils, but don't forget that any welder can make sculptures.

I can only hope that i have missed you were being sarcastic and trying to crack a joke.
 
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da8iwr said:
I suppose the only reason people paint well is because they buy good paints, or people draw well is because they have super duper pencils, but don't forget that any welder can make sculptures.

I can only hope that i have missed you were being sarcastic and trying to crack a joke.
Click to expand...

Do not take DWP serious - catch his postings!;)

I have just purchased a cook book by a well known chef..will all my cooking now be edible?:D - gawd, I hope so - about to hang the 5 star sign outside the house.

Poppy
 
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The amount of photographers in the wedding game doing it with zero experience and actually many of those types of comments become reality.

It drives me mad, as it is the same as "web designers" who have no idea what they are doing, they mess clients around, provide very shoddy work, then clients think this is the norm and wont use other people as there is no point in paying people if the best they can do is this.

"If this is what I pay for, and I can do it myself, then I may as well do it myself and not pay anybody else."
 
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da8iwr said:
The amount of photographers in the wedding game doing it with zero experience and actually many of those types of comments become reality.

It drives me mad, as it is the same as "web designers" who have no idea what they are doing, they mess clients around, provide very shoddy work, then clients think this is the norm and wont use other people as there is no point in paying people if the best they can do is this.

"If this is what I pay for, and I can do it myself, then I may as well do it myself and not pay anybody else."
Click to expand...

Sadly, it happens all the time and right across the board - hence the 'rogue traders' programmes.

All you can hope, is that it, never happens to you - because you will never stop it.

If people stopped and asked for proof/references/ before they engaged people some of this could be stopped - sadly the public never learn in many instances.

If I was hiring a photographer I would want to see an extensive portfolio, especially if this was for a wedding.

If I was having a website designed I would want to see their past work.

I do not have much sympathy for people who jump in head first because they believe what some one tells them.

Also I would not pay upfront (a small deposit) until I was satisified with the end results.

Do your homework, and what you write about should not happen.

POppy
 
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poppy, your very right
If you ask for 3 references, people you can contact, speak too and aks them how was the whole process, then you will pretty much be sorted.

Regarding the deposit, i wont even turn my computer on until i have received 50% upfront. This is then a way to show, i am serious and will use your services and see it to the end.

i wouldn't spend all the time photographing/designing a website, to then half way through have somebody say, nahh i have changed my mind now.

It happened to me LOADS when i first started out.

50% is enough to make them stick with you, but enough for me to want to see the work through to get the remaining 50%.

Of course from that 50% you have all expenses as well, such as albums, printing, travel, parking etc.

A service industry is different from the product/retail industry, as all service providers on here will tell you, that working with the public is awful, they change their minds every 10seconds and think they have the god given right to everything.

I had one client who asked for a website to look EXACTLY the same as one she provided as an example, so i made it and she said she didnt like the colours anymore so wasnt going to pay me... that sort of rubbish.

(she went to court and lost btw ;))
 
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da8iwr said:
poppy, your very right
If you ask for 3 references, people you can contact, speak too and aks them how was the whole process, then you will pretty much be sorted.

Regarding the deposit, i wont even turn my computer on until i have received 50% upfront. This is then a way to show, i am serious and will use your services and see it to the end.

i wouldn't spend all the time photographing/designing a website, to then half way through have somebody say, nahh i have changed my mind now.

It happened to me LOADS when i first started out.

50% is enough to make them stick with you, but enough for me to want to see the work through to get the remaining 50%.

Of course from that 50% you have all expenses as well, such as albums, printing, travel, parking etc.

A service industry is different from the product/retail industry, as all service providers on here will tell you, that working with the public is awful, they change their minds every 10seconds and think they have the god given right to everything.

I had one client who asked for a website to look EXACTLY the same as one she provided as an example, so i made it and she said she didnt like the colours anymore so wasnt going to pay me... that sort of rubbish.

(she went to court and lost btw ;))
Click to expand...

By deposit I did mean acceptable to both parties, so that what you describe should not happen.

Someone who paints (houses) for a living, spent 3 weeks doing this ladies hall, it was a very large hall with tall ceilings, involved lots of scaffolding etc.

Both, were at fault, as price was never mentioned.

When he gave her the final bill she apparently flipped.

She ignored all his calls, and sent his invoices back torn to shreds.

He finally got half of the amount he was owed.

He said he never pursued it - she was a police women, and he left it alone.

Costly lesson.

Good Luck

Poppy
 
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Thats madness, i wouldn't have settled for half, as if you did the work then you deserve the payment... but its also madness, that they went ahead of doing the job with out any form of quote, deposit or written agreement.

If she didnt like the costs, that would be tough, as it is her responsibility to work out the costs or maximum budget before hand. If you called a builder and said build me a nice house and bill me at the end, you will get an all singing and dancing house that will cost a fortune.
 
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I work with a lot of photographers each year and the ones that seem to do well are those that have found a niche and really became expert in that niche. So if weddings is going to be your niche just become really really good at it. Most of the guys we work with avoid wedding shoots like the plague so most still be room for someone who is good.

Just think niche and exploit it. We are working with this pro photographer later this year. Now that is niche;)
 
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da8iwr said:
There is a discussion on Linked-In, saying Photographers should be licenced, to widdle out the double jobbers and the amateurs.

You can see the comments and opinions of this here
http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&gid=60135&discussionID=12627406

Regards
Ian
Click to expand...


Sorry can't see it as I'm not a member of the group. This has been discussed at length for a number of years, in conclusion it turns out to be unworkable as where would you draw the line? Would the designers who use our pictures have to be licensed as well?
In theory it is a good idea, helping to get rid of the photographers who give our industry a bad name, but I always say the cream will rise to the top.
Biggest problem I've seen in the past 10 years is the massive increase in supply resulting in a lowering of quality.

I really couldn't imagine the likes of Don McCullin or Martin Parr submitting a portfolio of images to work in the UK :)
 
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An interesting thread this one!

How much of wedding (or any other type) of photography is down to the equipment and how much down to the photographer's personality and eye for the composition?

I realise training and experience are important too!

I'd be interested to get a pro photographers opinion on the following photographer -

http://www.adamclutterbuck.com/

He's self taught and sells his limited edition prints - as well as holding down a full time day job.
 
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Apologies to the OP for going off thread there. Adam (the photographer from my previous post) combines his job with exhibiting his prints. Possibly another avenue for you to explore - less pressure than weddings!!
 
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So this licence is actually a bribery to kick out the competition. If not, how are they going to choose the best photographers to be licenced. Going to measure how many times they can click on a camera button in a minute?:D



da8iwr said:
There is a discussion on Linked-In, saying
Photographers should be licenced, to widdle out the double jobbers and the amateurs.

You can see the comments and opinions of this here
http://www.linkedin.com/groupAnswers?viewQuestionAndAnswers=&gid=60135&discussionID=12627406

Regards
Ian
Click to expand...
 
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avantime said:
How much of wedding (or any other type) of photography is down to the equipment and how much down to the photographer's personality and eye for the composition?

I realise training and experience are important too!

I'd be interested to get a pro photographers opinion on the following photographer -

http://www.adamclutterbuck.com/

He's self taught and sells his limited edition prints - as well as holding down a full time day job.
Click to expand...

There is a huge difference between a good photographer and a commercial photographer. Every time a commercial photographer turns up anywhere, they have to make good images, first time, with no excuses, not just take ok ones when the sun is rising or setting with chocolate box photography.

When its a hobby, when your in a second job and just get up early a few times to catch the sun rise in a nice location, you can take photos that will sell as wall photos.

But when a commercial photographer is commissioned, to take photos of a ceremony, wedding, show, etc, you take them as the light is and have to make them look the best you can with your talent and experience.

Product and studio Photography is a lot easier, as you can spend hours testing the shots before the product or person/people get there. Thats why family photography is so easy, you have the lighting set up from the last 300 times and just rattle the camera taking thousands of images and hope that one of them catches a nice shot. In the days of film it was nothing like that, you had to have a lot of talent.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_AuyVz89AXg

How much of wedding (or any other type) of photography is down to the equipment and how much down to the photographer's personality and eye for the composition?
Click to expand...

Pro photography is almost entirely down to the photographers skill. There was a program on BBC about 3 or 4yrs ago, where they gave 4 real pro photographers different camera types.

1 - Mobile phone camera (free on a contract)
2 - Small compact (£150)
3 - cheap DSLR (£400)
4 - High end medium format camera (costing £20K)

The program then followed them to see who could take the best pics with the camera, the one that won was the mobile phone.

It was a program to prove that it is pure skill that makes you a pro photographer, and not the equipment, even though of course that helps improve the good photographs that you take in the first place.

There is a huge community of pro photographers using pin hole cameras like these
http://uk.shop.lomography.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holga

As it is a way of showing pure talent, and not what can be done with settings, photoshop and by taking hundreds of photos and hoping one turns out well.
 
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I'm a full-time wedding photographer in the UK, and I am seriously thinking about dropping that activity in favour of more corporate and commercial work... The competitiveness of other snappers and constant bargaining of recent brides-to-be make me wonder if it's worth the hassle. Unless you are in the top three positions of Google for your targeted keywords, you will not get many visits to your website and hence you will have to find your clients in a different way.

Let alone your level of skills, you're already starting with a handicap. And I second what has been said earlier, do not see your fee as £100 per hour for a shoot, but also add the number of hours you will be working in front of your computer for.
 
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