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Grouping invoice line items in Xero: what does everyone actually do?

CLM Controller
ChrisJ007 said:
Thanks, that's more or less where I'd got to.

Doing it by hand is what I've ended up with, and on a small job it's fine. It falls apart on anything with a proper materials list, because by the time you've squashed thirty lines down to "Materials" you've either retyped the lot somewhere or lost the detail you needed for the books.

If you're doing this regularly, do you group it before you raise the invoice, so Xero only ever holds the short version, or keep the full detail in there and tidy up the copy that goes to the customer?
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That's pretty much the approach I'd take too. I'd keep the full breakdown in the accounting records and simplify what the customer sees, rather than sacrificing the detail just to make the invoice cleaner.

As TaxBix mentioned, “Labour” and “Materials” can be perfectly workable on the customer-facing invoice, provided the VAT treatment is clear where different rates apply.

The CIS point is a good one too. If you're doing CIS work, I'd definitely keep the materials figure separately shown rather than rolling everything into one total. It saves a lot of hassle later.
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Work Injury Claim

G
TheLoser said:
Good Afternoon Everyone,

Looking for a third opinion whilst waiting for insurers solicitors to review. We have recieved a claim in March from a No Win No Fee solicitors firm using the claim portal and the Disease claim forms rather than injury forms.

Commercial roofing company (ltd co) completed a large project late last year. We paid another company (ltd co) for use of their labour to complete.

The working week was Mon-Fri with no weekend working owing to strict site rules.

One of their workers developed a rash on the lower leg during normal operations. The claimed 'exposure period' was Mon to Thursday of a particular week. The IP claims they were exposed to something in that window that produced a chemical burn to their leg. The IP worked the full 5 day week so worked the Friday with no inference of an injury or burn.

We were notified by text on the following Sunday night of a rash on a leg and the IP will not be in work Monday. I believe they went to Hospital and had it checked out.

Monday and Tuesday an investigation was initiated by ourselves and the building owner (Multi national corporation) and their qualified H&S Staff. Long story short - no chemicals present in the process, photos were handed over by supervisors showing the IP in the middle of the alleged exposure period wearing correct PPE and in fact wearing two layers of leg protection (Pants and plastic waterproof overpants) as it was light rain all week.

One of his colleagues saw fit to approach the clients H&S staff and claim the IP removed his work pants under the waterproof pants and the rash was caused by bad hygiene and sweating. This was recorded on the Clients internal H&S reporting system and is on the record.

The Tuesday afternoon of that week the IP was called by a director of the company for a welfare check and was asked two questions: Have you worked anywhere else Saturday and Sunday that would give rise to a rash on your leg as you did not report anything Friday and left site normally... He refused to answer. He was asked if he removed his pants from under the waterproofs at any time that week and refused to answer. The IP sent a series of voice memo's by text stating he was feverish and clammy, lethargic but believed it was not a chemical burn and that no chemicals were present and was a odds as to what it could be.

On the friday the Director received a text from the IP saying legs a lot better, I can walk good now I'll be back in work Monday. He never came in Monday and despite calls he never answered.

As this self certifying text was received stating he was fit to return Monday by his own declaration - it was deemed not required to file a RIDDOR report with HSE as any absence after the claimed return to work would be a different event.

The accident book was filled out on site as per normal procedure by our director with what details we had, and the dual investigations were closed NFA as we could not find a cause or any ongoing risk to the remaining workforce.

Several of the workforce joked about the IP working elsewhere on other jobs hence why he was not in work. He never answered his phone and the manager of his firm claimed he didnt know either.

Three weeks later out of the blue on the very last day of the project after word broke everyone would be getting a small bonus for their effort - the IP arrived for his shift with no prior warning from himself. He made no mention of any injury or disease and was happy working back on site in the very conditions he has now claimed caused injury. When asked where has he been - he declined to answer.

The project ended early December. Late Feb 26 and we decided to pay all our bills and close the company down as we had no more contracts. A DS01 strike off was filed.

However now I am led to believe due to this claim we have to file a DS02 to suspend the strike off as the claimant could become a debt of the company...

We believe the claim as detailed by his solicitor in the claim forms to be fundamentally dishonest and fraudulent on the following points (Correct me if you think otherwise):

No chemicals used in the process - Causation is denied? By his own voice notes as well he admitted no chemicals so why claim for a chemical burn? He was photographed dated and time stamped wearing the correct PPE, dual layer so contact with the leg almost impossible. Did he take his work pants off underneath and sweat causing a rash in breach of the signed risk assessment - a point he refused to answer.

Refusal to disclose his wherabouts on the Saturday or Sunday?

21 days of incapacity is disputed as he sent the text dated and time stamped saying he was fit to return on the Monday but didnt. His colleague on condition of anonymity disclosed a FB post by the IP's partner of him at a christmas event bang in the middle of the alleged period of incapacity showing him walking smiling and carrying his son on his shoulders at the event...

On his return on the last day he was reminded on more than one occasion to read the accident report in the accident book and sign but he chose not to.

The solicitor has stated in the claim forms where asked has the IP recieved treatment and rehabilitation for the injuries/disease they selected yes but then when asked for details of the treatment and rehab wrote TBC... How can you select yes but put TBC and not have the details from the IP - looks like a blatent attempt to inflate the claim.

The solicitor claims future rehab is required and will be assessed by their medical expert but put TBC for this as well when asked what is required.

There are more points found in this claim but this is the crux of it. I do believe there is more than enough to make the IP's solicitor close the claim.

What do you think? TIA
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I wouldn’t assume the claim will simply get thrown out, but you certainly seem to have some useful evidence.

The photographs, PPE records, accident book, investigation notes and especially the claimant’s own messages/voice notes could all be important when it comes to causation and credibility. The fact that he returned to work and apparently worked in the same conditions is also something I’d expect the insurers’ solicitors to look at closely.

I’d be careful about calling it “fraudulent” or “fundamentally dishonest” yourself, though. That’s ultimately something for the evidence and the legal process to establish. The Christmas event and comments from colleagues may be relevant, but make sure anything you rely on can actually be evidenced rather than hearsay.

On the company strike-off, I’d definitely raise the claim with your accountant/solicitor immediately rather than continuing with the DS01 while a potential liability exists. The insurers’ solicitors should also be able to advise you on that.

At this point I’d give your insurers’ solicitors the complete evidence bundle and let them assess the claim rather than engaging directly with the claimant’s solicitor. If you want an independent second opinion on the company/claim position, you could also have a solicitor review it through consultantlm.uk/partner/legal_support_uk.
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European 3PL Provider

D
BusterBloodvessel said:
Morning All,

We are investigating the idea of putting some stock into a 3PL in Europe to service European customers. Possibly Belgium or Netherlands but open to ideas. Has anyone any recommendations of providers? Would be great to have an intro call or two. Have dealt with DSV for this in a previous life but found them "too big" and completely inflexible.

Any recommendations would be welcome.
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For a smaller operation, I’d definitely look at independent or mid-sized 3PLs rather than the big providers. They’re often more flexible with storage, fulfilment and shipping requirements. Belgium and the Netherlands both seem like good locations for serving EU customers.
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Looking for accountant/book keeping service

D
Mr Gas Fires said:
I recently changed accountant as my previous local service, whilst perfectly ok, were getting very expensive and as a sole trader trying to manage costs I decided to change. I found a company online who were reasonably priced and switched however I have had a fair amount of grief in the last year with them as my work was delegated to a trainee who, whilst very helpful, kept making errors that inevitably caused me grief and I have lost faith in them.

I am a sole trader, VAT registered retailing and installing gas fires/fireplaces, gas fire servicing and sweeping chimneys and am looking for accounting and bookkeeping including self assessment and VAT returns. I am conversant with uploading receipts to Quickbooks but I have no bookkeeping skills beyond that.

Looking for a personal service that is reasonably priced, with knowledge and experience of working with small service businesses in the building/home improvement sector, with a good understanding on what can be claimed/offset who can hopefully keep my tax bills sensible!

If you offer this service, are available and willing to supply references, please get in touch.
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It sounds like you need a smaller accountant who offers a more personal service and has experience working with sole traders and VAT-registered businesses. I’d definitely ask whether the work will be handled by a qualified accountant rather than passed to a trainee.
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Looking for - Health & Safety Consultant Reccomendation

D
Frank the Insurance guy said:
Hi all,

I have a US Client who has set up a new UK Ltd company.

This is an office based business.

They are looking for help with a broad range of H&S issues including:
1. Health & Safety Policy/Quality Assurance
2. Implementation of BS OHSAS
3. Health & Safety Risk Assessment
4. Health & Safety Training

Any recommendations?

Thanks,
Frank
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I’d recommend finding a consultant who can handle everything in one package, including the H&S policy, risk assessments and staff training. That would probably be the easiest option for a new UK business.
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London Commercial Property Management Service recommendations

D
Chris Kaye said:
Hello everyone,
I was hoping someone may be able to recommend some commercial property management companies that cover central and North London for a couple of retail properties my company owns.

I’ve done the usual Google searching, emailed and called several companies but they either do not respond (or call back) or they didn’t want the business (maybe we are considered small+fry for them).

The current management company we employ provide a terrible service and I am at my wits end with them.
Any recommendations are appreciated!
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Have you tried looking for smaller independent commercial property management firms? The larger companies often focus on bigger portfolios, whereas a smaller local firm may be more responsive and willing to provide a more personal service. I’d also ask other local commercial property owners for recommendations.
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website design and publication

fisicx
Write up your specification. List all the things you want the site to do. Provide examples of sites that already do what you want. Don't worry about the look of your site - the key part is to get the content created.

But...

You can't do that until you have written your marketing plan. The site content is a development of the marketing plan.

If you want someone to quote for the work they need to know all the above. You can post here to seek a developer:

I'm Looking For A...

Looking for an accountant, a courier, a supplier of widgets? Ask here if any members of the community can help.
www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk www.ukbusinessforums.co.uk
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Dilemma - woocommerce to shopify?

fisicx
gtechrob said:
going to resist going down rabit holes on this thread. was hoping to hear from anyone who has made the move. as above. think we will continue with the woo updates including checkout and do a deep dive into shopify plus and advanced.
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Yes. I have clients who moved to shopify, got frustrated with the platform and the costs and moved back to self hosted.

It can work very well for some but not for others. You just won’t know until you try. The biggest gripe appears to be integration with stock control systems, CRM and accounting packages. You can get them to work but the costs soon rack up.
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Some forums wind you and some are just right

Lucan Unlordly
Ian J said:
Were you banned because of your philosophy or because of the way you put it over
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LOL....both probably..........as I recall it a blue badge holder was rightfully complaining about being unable to find a disabled space at B&Q because non-holders were occupying them. The complainant then admitted they had a mobility scooter, there was ample space at the back of the car park and I suggested that being 30yds closer to the door was therefore unnecessary. Was I wrong?🤔

It went downhill from there as the baying mob weren't exactly on board with my bag of crisps analogy that those with blue badges should, as appropriate, consider their actual need and set it against that of their fellow holders.:)
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If you could bring in a keynote speaker to tackle one challenge in your business, what would it be?

JEREMY HAWKE
I have said before if you people need inspiration and business help speakers look no further than me
I can furnish your team with the most direction focused ballshit you can find
Its no good getting a general speakers who can fire words into the air to tick boxes .I can talk the crap for your team to achieve the exact objectives .You loves I knows it 👍

if you not fired up by me and you have fallen out with Ozzy on here ,Here are two that I recommend and are very different from each other

Pete Goss | Champions Speakers

Renowned yachtsman, Pete Goss, is better known for the feats he accomplished outside of competition, rather than his impressive collection of winning results. A highly accomplished sailor, Pete’s most illustrious sea venture involved the heroic rescue of a Frenchman lost in a hurricane, a...
champions-speakers.co.uk champions-speakers.co.uk

speakernet.co.uk

SpeakerNet

SpeakerNet is a public speaker-finder service, full of speakers willing to give free or paid talks to groups such as Rotary, Lions, WI and U3A
speakernet.co.uk speakernet.co.uk
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New Member Introduction: VIPHONYA Stainless Steel Wine Cellar ROYAL METAL Wine Cabinet Manufacturer

Ozzy
Hi @KennyRM and welcome, hope to see you around on here.

Your caps lock key seems to have a glitch that it randomly puts some words all in CAPITALS for no reason, and also for some weird issue, some of your words have ended up in bold characters and some not. You'll probably want to get that checked as it makes your messages look weird.
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MTD – more admin than expected?

UK Contractor Accountant
DWS said:
My point is that the quarterly update figures are irrelevant as it is only the end of year figures that matter.
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Inaccuracy penalties do not apply to MTD income tax quarterly updates. They do apply to the annual tax return in MTD income tax in the same way that they apply to income tax self assessment returns.

so 4 nil returns and final 5th one as normal.:)

MTD for income tax penalties

A new system of penalties for late submission and payment of income tax has been introduced alongside Making Tax Digital (MTD) for income tax. ICAEW’s Tax Faculty explains the new rules and the other penalties that may need to be considered in the context of MTD income tax.
www.icaew.com www.icaew.com
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Making Tax Digital without an accountant or bookkeeper?

W
Coming to this late, and I'll say up front I'm an accountant, so read it with that in mind.

You're not wrong. Spreadsheet plus bridging software is a legitimate route and it does meet the requirement, as long as the data links through without being retyped. Nobody has to pay for a full accounting package to comply, and I don't think this thread served you well on that.

Where it genuinely does break, and this is worth knowing rather than being warned about vaguely

The link has to hold end to end. If at any point you're reading a figure off one screen and typing it into another, that's the bit that fails, even if the number's right. It's the most common way a spreadsheet setup stops being compliant without the person realising.

Formula errors don't announce themselves. A broken range or a row inserted outside a SUM will quietly give you a wrong figure for four quarters. Software won't stop you making mistakes either, but a spreadsheet is the one place a mistake can sit invisible for a year.

The cumulative bit trips people up. Quarterly updates are year to date, not standalone quarters, so the spreadsheet has to be built for that from the start. Retrofitting it in January is miserable.

None of that is a reason to pay someone. It's a reason to build it carefully once, then leave it alone. If you get the structure right at the start, £20 a year is a perfectly sensible answer.
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Any demand for a bespoke platform for trade/home service businesses?

O
Hi everyone,

I recently developed a web and mobile app for an acquaintance who is an electrician.

There are loads of apps off the shelf like Tradify, ServiceM8, Jobber, SimPRO to name a few, some of which are really good. Where they fall down a little is they have to be somewhat generic in order to market themselves to a wide audience. This results in lack of nuance at times as sometimes mean you end up tweaking your process to suit the software.

Example - the app I've made takes it into account the different ways someone can be employed; payroll, subcontract etc. as well as how pay is calculated and CIS compliance. It actually auto creates internal invoices and reports the data for CIS returns too.

Also, there was a specific need that everything be doable via mobile as well as accounting for low IT literacy. It does all the other things that have come to be expected from the standard platforms too.

Anyway... I really enjoyed the process and would be keen to do it again if there was demand but explaining the advantages of bespoke is a tricky sell.
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